How Many of You are Committed to Working for Improvements to the HCR Bill if it Passes?

[laughingliberal]

We have a lot of people here pulling out all the stops to silence the objections to the bill. Everything from screaming and insulting and name calling to emotional blackmail and accusations of heartlessness. Then we have those saying it has to get passed so it can get 'fixed' (which, incidentally, is the same reason we were told Baucus' committee had to be allowed to pass their bill so it would be 'fixed' in conference).

My question is what kind of commitment will we see from these members after the bill passes? Because I think we have a lot of people who like this bill as it is who are promising 'fixes' just to silence dissent and get the bill passed. And I fear we will have heard the last of any 'fixes' from them as soon as the Rose Garden ceremony is over.

So, what do you say? What are you prepared to do to force some improvements after the fact?

[havocmom]

1. Can I have the popcorn concession on this one?

;)

[laughingliberal]

5. Sure.

:)

[noise]

2. Maybe someone can explain the logic as well

"We can fix the foundation later. Right now we need to focus on table lamps."

[kestrel91316]

3. This bill is just the first step on the road to universal single payer healthcare

in the US. The rest of the country may well have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but EVENTUALLY it will happen.

Once the HCR bill is signed and everybody has a chance to read and interpret it and apply its provisions, then its inherent weaknesses will become clearer. If those weaknesses harm too many people, they won't be able to silence the demands for improvement.

Have you forgotten what Americans are all about?? Do you think for one minute that ANY of us who support it think it's just fine the way it is??? Because if you do, I want some fo what you have been smoking.

I'll be making the usual noise in support of improvements I think are appropriate, but there are a lot of unknowns right now.

Oh, and in the US we don't use "force" to get our way. We use persuasion.

[noise]

7. The first step would have been much better

if the Obama administration had acted in good faith. They did not.

[kestrel91316]

8. I disagree. Obama is nothing if not pragmatic in the face of nearly overwhelming obstacles.

[amborin]

25. sickening to see him in campaign mode now, when he did nothing for a robust public option

[laughingliberal]

35. Yes. There is the POV that says he cut the deals with PhRMA, the Hospital lobby, and AHIP

to avoid an onslaught of ad buys trying to defeat HCR. In the case of the hospital lobby, this bill is excellent for them and they ran ads supporting HCR because of it. But I see no reason why he couldn't have pushed for it in the past 2 weeks while support in the Senate gained momentum. It was too late for any industry ad buys to change the momentum by then.

[Donnachaidh]

28. pragmatic

yup -- he sure is: --

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

is it easier to be pragmatic in a closed door meeting? That should shut out those *overwhelming obstacles*, right? :sarcasm:

: relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters : practical as opposed to idealistic <pragmatic men of power have had no time or inclination to deal with…social morality — K. B.

[Tippy]

21. If they had just told Republicans right off if you not with us your against us

And quit begging for a bipartsan bill we might have actually gotten a really good bill...It wasn't just the President Look how both sides held HCR hostage wanting to get someting for all their states..All are guilty...And all states should be treated equally. And if people had not stayed involved we would not have a bill

[laughingliberal]

9. I meant force in the sense of political pressure

I think there are some here with agendas other than real reform of the health care system, yes. I think there are some here who truly believe this bill is health care reform. And I think there are some here who just want the bill passed to avoid a political hit to our party if it doesn't pass. I'm just interested in seeing what people who are telling us to pass it now and fix it later are planning to see to it we do 'fix' it.

[bain_sidhe]

19. not to mention, it has a handy hook on which to hang a public option

According to the NYT's "proposed changes" chart ( here ), there will already be a "place" to put in a Medicare buy-in:

The federal Office of Personnel Management, which provides health benefits to federal employees, would sign contracts with insurers to offer at least two national health plans to individuals, families and small businesses. The new plans would be separate from the program for federal employees, and premiums would be calculated separately. At least one of the plans would have to operate on a nonprofit basis. (emphasis mine)

All they have to do is sign a contract with the "insurer" known as "Medicare."

[laughingliberal]

34. That would be wonderful!

I have to hope some of our progressives will push for this.

[Tippy]

4. I was still calling and asking others to call today for about 3 hours

Will continue....

[laughingliberal]

11. Thanks!

It can't hurt even though they've managed to kill the progressive provisions if they cast their vote knowing we aren't going away.

[Tippy]

23. And Thank you for starting this thread....

There are just not enough true Progressives to do a job this big...We the Voters need to elect more. I am serious about politics...Aot of people probably think I am nuts for backing Obama as I did, but I knew he was our President for more than just one year..And people are right things on Washington seem to move ever so slowly...he did get hit with a big mess as soon as He moved in...At frist I was horribly disappointed but these things take time I knew it...I would get so mad, Every time somone blamed him I saw red...Campaign promises are just that IF the circumstances allow them to take place some may be fulfilled...ok There have been times many promises were never fulfilled...OK I'm going ot quit telling everyone what most of you already know.

[Union Yes]

6. Count me in. knr

Edit: to answer your last question...

I'll keep calling my elected officials. I'll keep working to help elect real progressives.
I'll vote only for progressives.

[laughingliberal]

10. Thank You! nt

[Cirque du So-What]

12. Well, that's pretty presumptive

I also think it's unfair to insinuate that those who support the bill are so callous and indifferent that they would cease caring once the bill is passed. Many, MANY of the people on DU who support the bill are veterans of political struggle. They're not going to bail out, and neither am I. 'Silence dissent'? 'Promising 'fixes''? 'As soon as the Rose Garden Ceremony is over'? Give me a break. That stinks of flamebait.

[readmoreoften]

15. +1

[DevonRex]

16. +1. nt

[laughingliberal]

20. I'm asking. Cause I've been flamed to hell by those who say we have to support the bill

and seek to pacify me with promises of future fixes. I just want to know how many are committed to the battle to fix it after it passes. I'm sure there are many. I'm equally sure I've seen some who never want the public option to see the light of day. And I believe there are some who see politics like a big football game and as long as it counts as a win for our team, the details don't matter. It's a big place with a lot of different people.

Surely, you have noticed some who support the bill have sought to silence dissent?

[likesmountains 52]

13. Yes. I understand all the teeth gnashing, president bashing and disappointment

but I have not seen a good explanation about what we have to gain by not passing this now. I doubt that we will ever get enough momentum to try anything even this imperfect for a long, long time...if ever. I am hopeful that this is the first (even if it's awkward) step in what will be a long process.

[Lorien]

14. The bill that's voted on is the bill we'll have

if we couldn't get a public option with 70% public support, what makes anyone think that they'll suddenly change their minds? I'll try to get Grayson's stand alone bill passed, but I seriously doubt if the WH will allow us to "tamper" with the bill they've approved.

[laughingliberal]

29. I'm wondering if those who have been wanting us to look at this as a first step

will throw their work and support behind trying to get Grayson's bill passed if it doesn't appear the President is backing it.

[Lorien]

32. Some will. Others just want a "win" for Team Obama (they really don't seem to

understand how badly this will hurt the party), but hopefully the ones who really care about health care and American Lives will fight for Grayson's bill. The problem is that once Team Obama gets what it wants on this issue I think they'll just go deaf to the "F*cking retards" who worked so hard to put them in office. I hope that I'm wrong about that, but the lessons have been pretty harsh so far.

[readmoreoften]

17. What kind of "work" are you talking about? They don't listen to us now. I doubt they'll give a damn

later.

I'll continue fighting for health care reform and a host of other reforms. If that answers your question. Shit. What choice do we have?

[DevonRex]

18. What kind of committment can we get from those of you who have

already taken your marbles and gone home? I see a LOT of those folks here.

[salguine]

22. The problem is, unless you're a well-connected corporate lobbyist, there isn't any

"working for improvements" any more. Petitions go ignored. Phone calls and faxes go ignored. Protests go ignored. The People go ignored. The system is so irretrievably corrupted that the only thing the People could do that would truly get the attention of the government at this point would, I fear, involve violence.

[thotzRthingz]

24. re: "So, what do you say?" well...

I want a ROBUST (no restrictions) PUBLIC OPTION right now (in lieu of SINGLE PAYER)... or I want this BILL KILLED.

That said:

If/when this abortion-of-corporate-welfare (under the guise of HCR) gets passed & signed into law... I want it FIXED, period! However; I am not so naive to think that will occur (this seems to be exactly what CONGRESS and the WHITE HOUSE wanted all along... I see no reason for them to even consider "fixing" their glorious victory)!

[Ozymanithrax]

26. 100% committed...But I knew this bill was just a incremental step to true health care for all.

[ChicagoSuz219]

27. Sometimes, I feel like I'm 100 years old, on this site.

Of course, it's only the first step... but, it's the first step since time began that may actually work.

It's the foundation for whatever comes next. Without it, we're back at square one... status quo... nothing... nada... zilch.

Let's just band together, support Nancy, Harry & the President & get the damn thing passed already!!

Once the dust settles, we can tweak it.

[laughingliberal]

30. I'm totally for the tweaking and then some

I hope to be joined by the majority of DU members in starting a push for Grayson's bill as soon as possible.

[depakid]

31. Seems like some are listening like 100 year olds, too

In the Presidents own words- and though his actions, what you're building on is a failed model of private insurance that we currently have.

It's not going to "work" any better than it has before- though two things to consider are:

1. The Dems having painted themselves into a corner have to pass something (politically, even a step backwards is preferable to having nothing to waive around come next fall);

2. Since the root problems in the US's fragmented system haven't been addressed and the inefficiencies are unsustainable- effective reforms will have to occur down the line- though they'll be dictated by even more dire economic need- and may well have to be instituted by Republicans.

[laughingliberal]

33. That's a very accurate assessment

The political realities of this are a mess. We do have to pass something or we're doomed politically. And it's not apparent we're going to fare a lot better when we pass it.

I shudder to think what we'll be facing when it's all out of control again.

[havocmom]

37. the kid nails it again

:thumbsup:

Lipstick on a pig (Private Insurance Greed) is not change. And it sure as hell won't fix anything save corporate profits.

[ChicagoSuz219]

36. Oh, ye of little faith... n/t