I used to be in the Middle Class, but My View of my Stature has Changed

[Mike 03]

Poll question: I used to be in the Middle Class, but My View of my Stature has Changed

[HarveyDarkey]

1. I've never cosidered myself "middle class" (whatever that is)

I was born working class and will die so. "Middle class" is a bullshit distinction.

[Kutjara]

7. It's always amazed me how so many Americans...

...identify themselves as middle class. People whom, in other countries would proudly label themselves "working class," here are lumped into a nondescript non-identity.

Of course, the creation of the American "middle class" has been one of the great victories of 20th Century right-wing politics. By eliminating class consciousness and making "middle class" an aspirational goal, the sense of working class solidarity that powered so much progressive change in the past has been largely destroyed. Where once we had workers, now we have consumers, who are only as good or important as their next big screen TV.

[inna]

33. Exactly! +1

[tavalon]

34. It was ingrained in me in nursing school that we were white collar

Hilarious that I bought that. I am food and medical care secure. I don't know that that makes me anything but working class.

[leftstreet]

35. [phone]

:thumbsup:

[TorchTheWitch]

14. I think "working class" is even more of a BS distinction

The poor, the wealthy and everyone in between all work for the most part. Just a huge distinction in how hard, how much and how much they're compensated. Working class is actually less of a financial bracket distinction than middle class is.

[HarveyDarkey]

16. Working class is not a financial distinction (did I imply that it was?)

[TorchTheWitch]

41. yes, that was the implication

[Riley18]

2. Wages have been stagnant for at least 4 years now and costs have skyrocketed.

[TorchTheWitch]

15. wages have been stagnant since Reagan

That's a hell of a lot longer than a mere 4 years!

[RKP5637]

17. IMO the whole place was destroyed by Reagan, his Reaganomics and a bunch of crap he and his

henchmen did! And these Fu##heads that idolize him.

[sandnsea]

3. Never been middle class, never will be n/t

[greytdemocrat]

5. And you never will be...

With an attitude like that.

[sandnsea]

13. I'm 52 years old

Life is what it is. You don't know my life so don't presume you've got some magic answer that can make me, or anyone else, middle or upper income. It just doesn't work that way.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. You don't have to brag about it.

[Mike 03]

4. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for participating in this poll.

I appreciate it to say the least.

[RKP5637]

20. I think it was pretty interesting, where people feel they fit/discuss in these terms that

are used over and over each day...

[Sisaruus]

6. If I knew how to define middle class

then I might know how to answer.

[Duke Newcombe]

8. I'm tenuously holding on to the Middle Class...

Month by month. If I lose my income, I'm only another couple months away from sliding into homelessness and poverty.

Doing that once (mid-2008, for five months, with a wife and four kids) provided me with a social and political epiphany that keeps on manifesting itself in my life today.

[elocs]

9. I've never been in the Middle Class and never will be and at 57 I don't care anymore.

Not that it ever made any difference. When I look back on when I was a kid I realize now that we were poor, but I never knew it then. I've found life easier to simply be happy and content with what I have instead of lusting to crack into the Middle Class. Once you get there you are always worried about staying there or getting back there. No thanks.

[RadicalTexan]

10. I've always considered myself lower middle class or working class

Think: the Connors from Roseanne.

I am the first in my family to graduate college, but, what with the student loan debt, I am still living month to month at age 30 and haven't been able to even begin repayment. They've been in forbearance for nine years, with spurts of payments where possible (which, of course, are always wiped out again by the interest that accrues when I have to put them back in forbearance).

I have a "good job" as a secretary (yeah, exactly what I always envisioned as one of the top in my class, and after getting both a BA and an MA!) with old fashioned benefits, but I feel financially precarious to the point that I regularly lose sleep. The idea of having children or buying a home seems fantastical.

I think most Americans consider themselves middle class, but many aren't. In fact, pretty much everyone in America is working class if we define that by "forced to sell labor for wages and having little to no control of one's work or workplace environment."

I'm also proud to be working class.

[Sisaruus]

11. I've never been able to figure out if I am middle or upper middle

even when I once had income below the poverty level.

[Kat45]

29. Yup, that used to be the job for the girls who didn't go to college.

I also was one of the smartest kids in school, got the 2 degrees and ended up doing office work. Except my last job got eliminated over a year ago so now I'm unemployed--and I'm in my 50s. I grew up working class as well. I don't know what class I'm in now. Fortunately, I inherited the house in which I grew up so I have a home. It's the income I don't have.

[catnhatnh]

12. The best Book I've ever read on the American Class System...

was,(strangely enough) Class by author Paul Fussell who posited that the division of the populace into 3 classes could more easily be determined by attitude rather than income or possessions.
His discription of true middle class attributes were that they were the only class that actually cared how other people regarded them. Lower classes were either criminal/crazy/or trying to survive too hard to care about appearances and being truly upper class was realized when wealth overcame caring about appearances.

It truly means that some few with 10K income are in the middle class along with some multimillionairs, and that some earning 50k are lower class and other 50k earners are already upper class....

And it's a great,funny read.

[Sisaruus]

18. check out www.classism.org

[Wiley50]

24. Try "Deerhunting With Jesus:Dispatches From America's Class War"

By Joe Bageant

You'll figure it out

[mrmpa]

30. great book, explains it all

I keep lending it out, so people get it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. Good title.

[Hannah Bell]

42. except that one's class *isn't* a matter of attitude, though it may have been a funny read.

class is a material distinction, not a matter of attitude or behavior.

[varelse]

19. Other - I'm working class

for much of my adult life I've lived near (or in) poverty.

[RKP5637]

21. I've always worked, I've had quite high and quite low incomes, I've always

considered myself working class because I've worked for a living, and I've always cared about the working class because I think we are the core of what did make America great.

What gets to me are rich snobs. I've had money, but I was never ever a snob, because I care about people, and when I could I donated heavily to worthy causes. Well, and I've always been a democrat because I think they care a devil of a lot more about people than republicans. I care about the so called working class of this country a lot.

To me, it has nothing to do with income, it is more of an attitude.

[Juche]

22. I never even got in

I graduated college right when the global economy started to collapse. Now I have years and years ahead of begging for low wage contract jobs w/o benefits or security. If I'm lucky. If I'm not as lucky I can live with family or in a tent.

But the concept of being an independent adult with dignity and autonomy is pretty much a dream right now.

And I think most people who consider themselves middle class really aren't. There is very little security anymore. Rising expenses, stagnant wages, growing public/private debt, the tax burden being shifted downward, etc. Most people who consider themselves middle class are one job loss or illness away from losing everything.

[RKP5637]

23. Excellent analysis IMO!!! n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

25. All I wanted out of life was to be able to take my family to the doctor and send my kids to college

I have spent $3000 on doctor bills this year not to mention the $2500 in premiums we pay each year. I'm about to spend $1000 on prescriptions. That is $6500 that could be put towards a college fund. I truly feel like if I stay in this country I will continue to pay high medical costs and my kids will not go to college. I feel the only way to salvage any shred of hope of my kids going to college is to move to another country and no I don't think this Healthcare bill they are working on is going to improve my situation. In fact, I believe the insurance companies will increase premiums, increase deductibles, and decrease the amount they pay out in claims. So my situation is likely to get worse if this healthcare bill passes and I stay in this coutry. I'm hoping to be in another country in about 5 years. That's my goal.

[Brickbat]

26. We have a middle-class lifestyle thanks to Mr. Brickbat's working-class union.

[iris27]

27. "Upper-class poor" is what my dad said we were when I first learned the whole

concept of social class.

By that, he meant just scraping by...not really living paycheck-to-paycheck, because the paychecks were never big enough to cover the bills. But creatively deciding who gets paid when, so that the extra money you owe on all your utilities and your house never turns into shut-off services or foreclosure.

Being so thankful you could kiss the ground when that occasional "third" paycheck comes, so you can reduce some of those outstanding balances a little. Which are of course erased as soon as Susie gets an ear infection or your ancient beater car breaks down again.

Knowing the extra things you might like to do for your children, like get them braces or let them take dance lessons, will never happen. If it's not offered at school, they won't get to do it. And of course any financial help for college is out of the question...the kids will either need to get scholarships or take out loans to pay for school.

This is how I grew up. And I did get a partial scholarship, but still graduated with $45,000 in loans, which I'm paying back to the tune of $250/month for 30 years. I was the first in my family to graduate with a 4-year degree, but didn't make the best choice of major, possibly because all I heard growing up was that college was the magic ticket...none of us realized how worthless (in terms of earning power) some college degrees actually were.

I think I am (barely) in the middle class today, so I have moved up a bit in the world, but this is mostly due to not having children. My husband and I make less together than my parents did 15 years ago, but we are able to pay all our bills on time and even manage to save a very small amount for retirement. But like most here, we are only one job loss or illness away from real catastrophe.

[Quantess]

28. The 14% or so who say they have risen above middle class...

congratulations for being upper middle class now!

[starroute]

36. I'm intellectual class

There was an article I once read, maybe in the late 70's or early 80's, which sliced and diced the American class system into nine different categories and explained how to identify them.

The criteria included not just money but also things like art -- high-end originals for the upper class, quality reproductions for the middle class, and velvet Elvises for the lower class.

But in addition, it singled out an intellectual class as one which wasn't based on money and which tended to cut across all the others. If you were an intellectual, your furniture might be shabby and your clothing second-hand, but you would have a house full of books. And the art sitting on your bookcases might not be expensive but it would probably be original, even if it just came from the local craft fair.

Not only did I recognize myself in that, but it explained a lot about my upbringing and why my parents weren't like the other kids' parents. And also why I married the man that I married.

And it explains why I don't spend a lot of time sitting around wondering if I'm middle class or working class. I'm not either and never will be.


On edit: Looking back up the thread, I think the article I read was probably by the author catnhatnh mentions in post #12. It sounds like the same attempt to define class in terms of attitudes.

[Political Heretic]

39. You should come up with a different name to define it

that doesn't make people want to punch you in the face :D

[haele]

37. Middle class is classically more of a term for a professional class -

- engineers, doctors, lawyers, professors (associated with a univeristy, not simply "teachers")and merchants - those who were not just educated, skilled workers or artisans, but managed their own businesses rather than working for an employer.
Thanks to unions, those who were normally considered "working class" could reach a financial state close to that of the professional classes, even if they couldn't have the social status.
Unfortunatly, as unions lost their strength, so did the new middle class. And as unions became demonized, workers who were normally represented by unions were viewed as lazy parasites - to be considered a few social steps above welfare queens and drunks by those who see social class as a privilidge of birth or some other superior genius to be determined by those who are "better off" to begin with.

Haele

[upi402]

38. working class, no matter their brackets

if i don't work or get unemployment, we don't eat and live indoors.

[lamp_shade]

40. Middle class to me means having about 15-20% of income left after all the bills are paid.

I consider myself high-end poor... enough to pay the bills and that's it.