New York schools' ban on homemade goods at bake sales has parents steamed

[HuckleB]

Low-fat Doritos and Pop Tarts are in; goodies baked at home are out. School officials say they're fighting obesity. Angry parents say it sends the wrong message about food habits.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-hometown-new-york21-2010mar21,0,1133725.story

"Homemade spinach pies are out; packaged baked potato chips are in. Mom's pumpkin bread is out; Kellogg's Pop-Tarts are in -- but they must be the whole-grain brown-sugar cinnamon variety.

At public school bake sales, Pop-Tarts are among 29 items the Department of Education has deemed nutritionally sound enough to sell in lieu of homemade goods, which have been banned in part because they do not list nutritional content.

Parents say the regulation, issued last month, pushes kids to eat processed food and undercuts parental efforts to teach nutrition at home by outlawing homemade goodies like organic popcorn balls and vegan cookies, which they argue are healthier than anything housed in a vending machine.

"What's the message we're sending here? That highly processed foods are healthier than food cooked at home," said Elizabeth Puccini, the mother of two elementary school pupils in Manhattan.

..."


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More from NYT: Taking the Bake Out of Bake Sale -- http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/dining/17bakesale.html

-----------------------


This is quite depressing, especially if this begins to cross the country.

Meanwhile, schools continue to cut recess and physical education, as well as music and arts programs.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Brickbat]

1. A bake sale where you go out and buy Pop Tarts and resell them? What a fucking joke.

[HuckleB]

10. It certainly is.

:hi:

[virgogal]

2. All the fun is gradually being legislated out of our lives.

[Deep13]

4. +1

[donco6]

3. We have parents who DEMAND we outlaw peanuts.

And since so many homebaked goods contain them, this is what it leads to. If a kid bites into Gramma Leone's homemade choco cookies with the secret ingredient (peanuts), and dies, who gets sued? ME.

But we haven't banned them yet. Probably should . . .

[Deep13]

5. Yeah, but the kid dies. nt

[HuckleB]

9. For the very few who face that danger it's very scary.

However, we've taken it far too far, IMO. We need to get some perspective.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869095,00.html

[Deep13]

14. I respectfully disagree.

Giving up peanuts, especially if someone in the school or whatever has a known allergy, is a small price to pay to make a kid's life a little less scary.

[HuckleB]

15. I'd call that one very slippery slope, in a world where we have let our fears take over.

Especially when we're now noting that many kids with allergies, actually don't have them at all.

http://www.physorg.com/news186052453.html

[donco6]

40. I know that; you know that. But when there's an incident -

there's not WAY I'll not be blamed. All of you here at DU are MORE than eager to blame schools for everything from poor dental hygiene to gang proliferation and childhood obesity.

[HuckleB]

49. Thanks for the red herring.

Bye.

[donco6]

62. Uh . . . 'kay. Bye. n/t

[Confusious]

65. I don't

It's the parents fault. all of those.

[Dappleganger]

20. Too bad that peanut butter

is one of the cheapest, nutritious sandwiches a family can make. NOt everyone can afford to pay for school lunch every day or meat sandwiches. Sometimes these allergy things are just taken too far. At our elementary school there can be absolutely no peanut OR fish products whatsoever (including tuna) because TWO PEOPLE have food allergies. IMO that is ridiculous.

[HuckleB]

22. In a less deadly way, it's like forcing the kids to refrain from flushing the toilets all day...

... because some of the kids have sensory disorders.

[Raineyb]

55. That's just damn ridiculous. And peanut butter or tuna fish sandwiches were sandwiches

that I took to school a LOT when I was a kid. Good thing the idiots weren't in charge back then.

[tammywammy]

17. I have a nephew that's allergic to peanuts

I love to bake, it's not that hard to make treats that he can enjoy.

[donco6]

39. But I can't GUARANTEE there's no peanuts in stuff.

You read it on labels all the time, "This product processed in plants that process peanuts. We cannot guarantee . . . blah blah." So why do people wonder why a school would ban bake sales?

[tammywammy]

41. I don't use any product that was processed in a plant that processes peanuts

Simple. I bake homemade goodies for him all the time, he loves my chocolate chip cookies. I also keep soy nut butter on hand instead of peanut butter for sandwiches.

And if parents just labeled stuff "may contain peanuts" then that would solve the problem. The reason people would ban them is they want to take the easy way out instead of thinking up ways to maintain a bake sale.

[donco6]

45. It's because lawsuits are expensive - even if you WIN.

Defending yourself against a lawsuit can cost over $100,000 in legal fees, even if you eventually win. Who has that kinda money? Certainly not schools.

But I applaud your effort to guarantee your ingredients. I doubt many others could say the same.

[AwakeAtLast]

67. As a teacher I can tell you that parents would not bother to label anything

A lot of them can't be bothered to read their child's report card and sign it. If you can't keep kids with peanut allergies away from peanuts, can't send in baked goods.

My school hasn't had a bake sale in seven years.

[tammywammy]

71. Such a sad state

I don't have children just my nephews (and two cats). I bake and bring stuff to work. I'm so set in the no-peanut mindset that I don't think anything I bake would be effected. I do make a mean carrot cake and use walnuts but they're NOT processed in a plant with peanuts. I don't really care for sweets much, so my efforts go to those that I work with. It makes them happy when they know I've baked during the weekend. :)

[HeresyLives]

81. There are people allergic to walnuts.

And Brazil nuts...and Hazel nuts.

For some reason people only know about peanuts.

[tammywammy]

99. Yes I know that, I was referring to the peanut allergy

As that's what I've been talking about, my nephew with a peanut allergy. If all ingredients are listed on the bake sale items it would reduce people's fears over allergic reactions.

[Huskerchub]

110. WHAT?!?

"If you can't keep kids with peanut allergies away from peanuts" If the kid has f&*(^in peanut allergies he/she needs to stay the hell away from the peanuts. WTF is this world coming to? Take some personal responsibility instead of making everyone else suffer.

[AwakeAtLast]

111. That is my point. Parents will not take that responsibility

I am not going to try to guess what has peanuts in it and what doesn't. If I'm wrong we send a kid to the hospital.

[unabelladonna]

69. this, thank you.

if there are any children allergic to peanuts, let them buy the over-processed junk. it isn't fair to the overwhelming majority who are NOT allergic to be penalized.

[tammywammy]

73. No, I don't agree with that

It's easy for people to make items that would include those with peanut allergies. If that's a concern (though not the concern in NY, they removed bake sales for a different reason), then parents could just label the items "may contain peanuts." If a parent took time to bake something for a bake sale, then I would assume they'd have time to check a box or whatnot.

[underpants]

6. Our daycar does that for parties

and the manager is a good friend of ours

liability--which is actually not the risk of lawsuits but insurance companies creating the myth of the risk of lawsuits

[HuckleB]

32. Yeah, it's extremely frustrating.

Our little guy likes to help us in the kitchen, and he would love help make cookies for a holiday, but no go says his pre-school. And we live in an extreme foodie town.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

7. This country has lost its mind. (n/t)

[HuckleB]

8. Yup.

[cali]

12. believe me, this would NEVER happen in VT

where instead we're nurturing the farm to school program

[Lorien]

13. That was my first thought upon reading this

the message seems to be "if a major corporation didn't make it and package it, it's unsafe!" It may just be an act of the excessively cautious, but it does indeed send a very bad message. Exactly what Jamie Oliver has been fighting against!

http://www.ted.com/talks/jamie_oliver.html

[MadBadger]

30. It appears that NYC has lost its mind

[Toucano]

11. The world is increasingly unrecognizable to me.

Is this the best we can do?

[HuckleB]

16. Lenore Skenazy: I Weep for My City (Banning Homemade Goods At Bake Sales)

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/i-weep-for-my-city-banning-homemade-goods-at-bake-sales/

[marmar]

18. Isn't the point of a "bake" sale to bring in goods BAKED at home?

C'est bizarre.

[HuckleB]

21. The Coen's were spot on in Raising Arizona -- "It's a crazy world. Someone oughta sell tickets."

[HeresyLives]

19. People are allergic to many of the ingredients

at these sales.

Any kind of nuts, or gluten, or any number of other things means you can't buy these products.

[HuckleB]

23. Overdiagnosis is taking the food allergy thing way too far. The nocebo affect is now in play.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/peanut-allergy-overdiagnosed/2007/05/15/1178995195305.html

[orion007]

27. Moms and kids need to organize weekend protests in front of their

schools throughout the city.
They should also stop buying any drinks and snacks the school sells until this law is overturned.

[HeresyLives]

35. Food allergies are quite real.

And sometimes deadly. If you had one, you'd know that.

[RobinA]

43. Allergies

So if your kid has serious food allergies, you obviously don't buy at the bake sale. But let everybody else buy at the bake sale and let the group make money. I mean....duh.

[HeresyLives]

57. Or just list the ingredients. I mean...duh.

[HuckleB]

48. No one said they're not real.

However, they are overdiagnosed.

[HeresyLives]

56. Or not.

[HuckleB]

59. Are you claiming that they're not overdiagnosed?

Food allergy: a practical update from the gastroenterological viewpoint.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17279290

Study: Kids Often Misdiagnosed With Food Allergies
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101944263

[HeresyLives]

70. A food allergy is immediate and noticible.

And usually requires a trip to emergency.

I've been there.

[HuckleB]

76. In other words, you're choosing to ignore the evidence I've offered.

Interesting.

[HeresyLives]

78. I'm choosing to go with personal experience,

and common sense.

[HuckleB]

79. "Common sense" has been proven wrong throughout history.

"Personal experience" is just an anecdote.

Neither of them match the reality of the clear overdiagnosis of food allergies, and the concurring over-obsession with food allergies and other dangers.



PS: Oh, and, as I've stated on this board more than once, this issue has nothing to do with food allergies.

[HeresyLives]

80. So has guff from newspaper articles.

[HuckleB]

85. Thanks for proving that you didn't look at the links I posted, or the sources noted there.

:eyes:

[HeresyLives]

87. Oh I looked at them.

Then I used the proverbial grain of salt.

[HuckleB]

88. Your posts make it clear that you did not.

:eyes:

Bye.

[HeresyLives]

89. Wise up, dude.

The article authors never stood in an emergency room facing the problem.

Bye.

[HuckleB]

92. Oh brother.

Thanks for continuing to prove my point.

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100319/manhattan/parents-protest-citys-ban-on-bake-sales

[HeresyLives]

98. Don't quote 'authority' to me.

And don't use the old 'proving my point' gimmick either. It doesn't work.

Where is coffee on the 'scare card' THIS week?

Bad for you? Good for you? Gonna kill ya? Health food?

it's been all those things recently.

There is a lot of nonsense passing as 'information' these days.

Use your own mind, and ignore the passing drivel. It'll change again by next week.

[HuckleB]

100. So you don't care about actual evidence.

And now you're off on red herring adventures.

Meanwhile, you have completely ignored the actual reason for the ban.

There's really only one thing to say: WOW!

:crazy:

[HeresyLives]

105. Give it a rest. You're boring.

[HuckleB]

106. Please take a long look in the mirror.

:rofl:

[LeftyMom]

24. Then post the ingredients.

When I bring things to potlucks I write the ingredients on one side of a 3x5 card and the recipe on the other, and set it in front of the dish, unless I'll be right there to answer any questions about what's in the food.

I have food allergies myself, and I've worked in a company that made food catering to people with common food allergies and sensitivities. Providing information about ingredients isn't difficult. Allergic people (or parents of younger allergic kids, but you'd be amazed how young the kids learn what they need to know) know the right questions to ask and the potential trouble spots based on their allergy.

[HuckleB]

25. Great idea.

[Hekate]

29. Exactly the right thing to do

:thumbsup:

[HeresyLives]

36. If all ingredients were listed, it would solve the problem

[donco6]

42. Not good enough - sorry.

Even my cooks at school have to post signs that say, "Our foods are processed in plants that handle peanuts. We cannot guarantee there are no peanuts in our prepared foods." (It's more legalese than that, but that's the gist.) So just because grandma brings the 3X5 with her mom's recipe scrawled on it, doesn't mean some kid isn't going to bite into something and go into anaphylactic shock.

We had a kid get a cookie from another kid on the playground and we had to run in for the epi pen because his lips swelled to the size of sausages. It's not fake, I can tell you that for a fact.

[HuckleB]

51. In other words, if there's any risk at all, you want to prevent anyone from enjoying life.

Thus, let's put the kids in padded closets, and they'll stay alive.

Right?

:shrug:

There are no guarantees ever, but true risk assessment doesn't mean that we can evade all risk. Not if we also want to live.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftyMom]

75. People with allergies that severe know about cross-contamination.

I used to handle inquiries about stuff like that at work, I know the drill.

FWIW, even most people with severe allergies don't have reactions due to cross-contamination levels of material. The one who do know it and are appropriately cautious about what they eat.

[Regret My New Name]

83. Then the kids with serious food allergies can get the poptarts...

Hardly seems difficult.

[Raineyb]

58. That's what labels are for. How hard is it for someone to stick a sign around the

cookies that says "contains peanuts" Instead you ruin things for ALL the kids? Asinine.

[HuckleB]

26. Note: Food Allergies Are Not The Stated Reason For This Ban

[KittyWampus]

28. Solution: have pre-approved recipes & make school kitchens available for cooking

This would ensure items would have:

calorie/ingredient list
be cooked in kitchen that passed code

[donco6]

44. Only kitchen staff can cook in school kitchens.

It's part of the new HACCP rules that regulate how food is accounted for along every step. Kitchen workers must be trained in proper food handling before working in the kitchen, including volunteers.

[KittyWampus]

68. *facepalm*

[eShirl]

31. they should have a student art sale

buying one crayon picture entitles you to a free cupcake, cookie or brownie

[HuckleB]

33. +1

[AwakeAtLast]

72. We sell DVDs of our concerts

So the parents can enjoy it without a camera in front of their face.

[aikoaiko]

34. sounds like a classic not being able "to see the forest for the trees" problem.

sad

[brooklynite]

37. The solution is right there in the headline.....STEAMED VEGETABLES!

What could be healthier? The PTA will raise Millions!

[tango-tee]

82. That's right!

Without salt (blood pressure)!
And without butter (there go the arteries)!

Yep, that sale is bound to be a real blowout...

[pipi_k]

38. The real threat they don't want to name...

Grandma's pot brownies.


:evilgrin:

[donco6]

46. I'm not touching that one. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

47. What the fuck is the point of a bake sale where there's no baked goods?

Why would anyone even bother going out of there way to go to one of these?

More evidence of our national insanity.

[treestar]

50. Why call this a bake sale?

:wtf:

If there are people who can't buy food not pre-processed and packaged, they can just stay away!

[HuckleB]

52. And that's probably what they've done in the past.

[HuckleB]

53. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOD ALLERGIES!

Why are so many people going to down a dead end alley, when food allergies have nothing to do with the reason for this ban!

:shrug:

[tammywammy]

74. Their reasoning doesn't make sense either HuckleB

Because it doesn't have a label it can't be sold? That's just crazy. People are going overboard.

[HuckleB]

77. Alas, they are going overboard. Big time.

:toast:

[Initech]

60. Pop Tarts are nutritionally sound????? WTF?????

[HuckleB]

61. You got me.

:shrug:

[Me.]

63. I Miss The Bake Sales

We vote in a school and every election the moms and kids would have a table set up outside the auditorium. They had a wide array of homemade good to choose from. No prices, just donations which was very clever because who was going to cheap out on the kids. The kids were so excited to serve everyone and it was smiles all around. We always bought something. The last time we voted there was no table with smiling faces, just n empty spot. I miss them them.

[HuckleB]

86. That sucks.

I'm sorry to hear about that. What changed at your school?

[MissB]

64. Sell fruit instead

I don't want to buy homemade food made in someone else's kitchen. Blech.

[Regret My New Name]

84. They may have been grown near a peanut farm :P

[Confusious]

66. Insanity n/t

[HuckleB]

90. Calling All Bake Sale Bakers

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/calling-all-bake-sale-bakers/

and...

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/the-diners-journal-bake-sale-bake-off/

All right, DUers, let's start baking!

[saltpoint]

91. I think cupcakes and cookies and the like are entirely appropriate for

school bake sales.

The more the merrier.

So far no one in any school system anyplace has placed a call to solicit my opinion, however.

If they do, I'm going to endorse cupcakes and cookies and lots of them.

[HuckleB]

93. I'm with you. And how about we bring back recess and PE?

[saltpoint]

95. Recess is good. PE would be better if people who ran my PE classes

in high school were not in charge, but then again that was long ago and far away.

[HuckleB]

97. PE can have it's problems.

I was lucky with the PE teachers I had.

:)

[saltpoint]

101. I'm glad it was good for you. I was envious back in those days of

kids who went to school with a swimming pool.

I thought that would be really good. Good exercise, and lots of fun.

[HuckleB]

103. That would have been awesome!

Especially since I lived in the desert for many of my schooling years.

[saltpoint]

104. It looks as if you've gone from the desert climate to much-more-rainy

Portland.

Adaptability matters. Good for you. One of these days I'll get out to Portland. From what I've heard it is one of the country's best cities for progressives. I guess there are a handful -- Portland, Austin, Madison, Berkeley, etc.

[HuckleB]

107. It's a great place to live, IMO.

It's funny. We love to travel, and we thought we'd try living in several places, but we came to Portland and can't leave.

Portland actually gets less rain than many parts of the country, but we do have a lot of cloudy days. However, even on the days that count as cloudy, the sun shines more than one would think. In other words, one does have to be able to handle some dark days in winter (though it's never very cold, which makes two people who grew up in the northern midwest happy, too). Blah. Blah. Blah. Anyway, it's a good place for progressives, and just in general, with walkable neighborhoods, which is what drew us here, originally.

[saltpoint]

108. It sounds like you're doin' it right in a town worth doin' it in.

I say more power to ya and I'll wish you the earliest of springtime days with a torrent of daffodils.

[HuckleB]

94. Response from the blog "momlogic."

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/03/baking_ban_in_brooklyn_schools.php

[HuckleB]

96. Parents and Students Hold Bake-In at City Hall Park to Protest City's Bake Sale Ban

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/archives/2010/03/parents_and_stu.php

NICE!

[Pithlet]

102. Why even bother?

It's not a bake sale at that point? I didn't think schools even had them anymore though. I know ours don't. We have to bring in store bought pre-packaged baked goods or stuff ordered from a professional bakery for parties.

[gleaner]

109. This is just plain ridiculous ...

Home made food is better all around. It is fresher, made with care, you know everything that goes into it, you know that it is prepared under clean conditions and parents or other relatives who take the time and care to prepare the food are going to try to give the children a good experience not otherwise.

My mother used to make a mean Zucchini bread. She used Zucchini from her garden and a recipe which included very little sugar lots of spice and tiny pieces of walnut. It tasted great and the kids in my class swarmed all over it. The same with her Cranberry Orange bread which she used fresh Cranberries to prepare. I still have those recipes and I used to make them for work pot lucks. Again people really liked them. They were fresh, not icky sweet and healthy.

A home kitchen does not even have access to some of the preservatives and unnamed ingredients that manufacturers used in prepackaged food. My husband has been very sick and his heart has been badly damaged. He cannot eat salt, so I pick and choose very carefully what I make for him. Right now I am simmering some home made Minestrone with fresh vegetables low salt chicken broth, fresh herbs and cut boneless, skinless chicken to give him some protein. It will cook for hours until I have in effect a really tasty vegetable broth with vegetables and chicken chunked into it and one scant cup of small macaroni which I add at the end. He loves it and it is good for him. You couldn't buy anything like that which was also healthy anywhere.

These people need to have their heads examined. I wonder if you would find anything inside?

[HuckleB]

112. +1