Let me be honest here, if you are a guy who took PE and had to shower, you showered with a gay

[dsc]

at least you likely did. I am not saying it because I am psychic. I am saying that because of probability. It really is an element of simple probability. Most neutral observers say 6% of Americans are gay. That makes the probability of any one person not being gay 94% (.94). Assuming that you took PE for four years with a class of 25 with some people being repeating we can call it 75. This is 75 independent events all with the probability of .94. The total probability is .94^75 or 0.00956 which is under 1%. That doesn't even include team sports, boyscouts, band camp or any other activities. Add in those and we are probably at 1 in 1000 or even 1 in 10000. It is simply absurd to think you haven't had a gay guy see you at one time or another. If you weren't bothered then, you won't be now either.

[Oregone]

1. Depends on where you are from

Iran doesn't even have gay people.

:)

[The Midway Rebel]

8. Yup, neither do the Boy Scouts of America.

Be prepared.

[pocoloco]

35. Especially when you drop your soap!

[kevinbgoode]

2. Yes. . .and as one of those gay guys

. . .I guess you should know that I considered dodgeball just one big foreplay session. . .

:loveya:

hahahahaha

[Fuzz]

5. lmao. I was thought of as gay for a long time.

I was once young and pretty until I took on this deranged lumberjack look.

;)

[rufus dog]

23. funny

I think you look like Bob Dylan

[RKP5637]

41. LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rufus dog]

21. OK that is funny n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

22. that is NOT what I meant when I threw my balls at you

wait, what?

[rufus dog]

24. sweet bejesus

I can't even make it two posts down without laughing.

[Arkana]

3. I actually was never forced to shower in gym class.

The worst we were asked to do was change clothes--no one showered.

That's not to say there weren't gay dudes in that locker room--I'd bet my right buttcheek there were.

[Egnever]

4. So?

[Lex]

6. So it's absurd to build military policy around the fear

of showering with gay people.

[MajorChode]

99. Just the fact that the GOP takes issue with it at all is absurd

In theory, the GOPher's ideology demands they advocate for the government staying out of people's private lives. Here's what Barry Goldwater had to say about it over 15 years ago...
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special25/articles/0611goldwater.html

The fact that the GOP makes it an issue at all just provides more proof that they have no ideology and they are nothing more than a party composed of loosely formed grabastic pieces of shit with no objectives at all other than obstructionism.

[KittyWampus]

7. May I ask what in particular inspired this post?

[dsc]

9. yet another DADT is needed because I am uncomfortable with gay men objectifying me in the shower

posts.

[beac]

49. Why do homophobes always think they're such hot stuff?

:eyes:

[RedCloud]

10. I thought you meant Performance Enhancers!

Duh!

[tularetom]

11. OMG - ya mean a gay saw my weiner?

I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight - maybe ever again.

I wasn't bothered by it then - actually I never knew. But thanks to you, I do now.

Hope I didn't catch it.

And I really hope you're happy.

[Leftist Agitator]

48. You better pray that one of those evil nasty gays didn't catch a glimpse of your anus.

Otherwise he would be so enticed by the sight that he would bend you over post-haste and give you a solid rogering.

:sarcasm: (in case my satire is more subtle than I think)

[The Midway Rebel]

12. Well, duh.

I didn't even figure out I was bi until I was in my late thirtys.

[RKP5637]

13. Should make no difference. Anyway, gay guys are only interested in certain

types just like in the straight world for guys/girls. Many gays are repulsed by other guys just like in straight world. I think people make too much (not speaking of you) about gay/straight, etc. To me it gets silly. Most people in the world are not 100% gay, straight, etc., anyway.

Just an update. Not bragging, but I was a very attractive guy when young. I was bothered by some straight guys trying to kiss me when young in school, so there's a twister for you! I did not like it one bit! They are all married now.

[RKP5637]

14. Dupe, delete.

[Beetwasher]

15. I Cant Understand Why It Would Bother Anyone

Im straight but for many years my primary physician was gay. He's a great dr that's all that mattered.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

16. dsc.....

:yourock:

[madrchsod]

17. never took a shower...pe was the last period through out school

one of my best friends was and still is gay..

[kevinbgoode]

18. We do certainly need a new policy - and this is it:

Any man who is incapable of protecting his own peepee in a shower is obviously not capable of defending the country.

Buh-bye, paranoid wingnuts.

[timtom]

61. I like that one.

Only one objection: "peepee."
It is degrading to real men.

The correct word, of course, is "weenie."

[MineralMan]

65. I though it was "dingus."

Shows how much I know...

[Scout]

67. i like the way you think! n/t

[lbrtbell]

76. We have a winner!

Or maybe I should say, "We have a weiner!" :rofl:

[John Q. Citizen]

19. I took a shower at The Oregon Country Fair.

[northofdenali]

70. OMG, John Q. - WITH THE SHEEP?? The GAY sheep???

I know there was one there. My husband's half-brother's wife's stepson's sister was the one showing it. Said it used to get quite rowdy in the showers. It was a ROSEBURG sheep, ya know the type.

:rofl:

This post has caused my Cab Sauv to meet with my monitor.

[RKP5637]

90. I find this so funny. I don't know why, but I really laugh each time I see it!

[John Q. Citizen]

92. Have you ever been to the OCF? It's even funnier if you have, imho.

[RKP5637]

98. No, never been. I was just looking at the OCF website. Looks like fun. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

100. Very fun

[adoraz]

20. well I never took a shower at gym, etc.

but your math makes sense for those who have

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. How many gay shower threads do we need? It seems like this has been going on for a week.

Who cares whether or not there were gay boys in the shower with me when I was in school? I sure didn't.

As far as the military goes; if there is anyone who is still bothered by the fact that there MIGHT be gays serving alongside them, LET THEM GET THE FUCK OUT, so we can field a fighting force that is able to focus on their responsibilities as Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen.

vadawg is gone, and good riddance to him, but enough is enough.

[Lex]

27. who knows how many such threads until DADT is repealed

perhaps?

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. For what it's worth...

I am the proud father of a gay teenager. She's the light of my life. The DADT issue will be a concern for me when 2012 rolls around, and will surely influence my vote.

That said, I don't think we're going to see much movement on it during The Fierce Advocate's watch.

[Lex]

34. I think you are right about that. nt

[TK421]

74. He's gone? I missed something here!

[KG]

26. no doubt. and i am sure they were impressed by both my length AND girth.

:rofl:

[QC]

29. Finally, a practical application for mathematics!

smooch!

[d_r]

30. I'm not gay

but the guy I take showers with is.

[Withywindle]

31. I'll go even further than that. I went to a small hippie college with co-ed dorms and showers.

I am female. Why yes, I did wash myself while nekkid standing next to nekkid males also washing themselves.

Did I get objectified? Maybe, but I had shampoo in my eyes so I didn't really notice. Did I get groped, harrassed, or raped? Hell no.

I'm a civilian lefty bisexual girly thing.

I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to do well in a war zone...and yet, apparently, I have WAY more cajones than the bigoted, insecure, muscleheaded Manly Straight McMale members (heh, I said "members") of Our Brave Troops. Who knew?

[salguine]

42. Was it Goddard College in Plainfield, Vermont perchance?

[Withywindle]

56. No. Antioch College, Yellow Springs, Ohio.

And I transferred there from Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson, New York. But I couldn't hack it there -- to expensive, too much cocaine. (1986)

I would have totally been willing to go to Goddard, though. :)

[salguine]

63. I asked laughingly but half seriously. I got accepted to Bard but couldn't afford it, and

Antioch was actually on my short list until I visited it...it was a little too out-there for me.

[old mark]

64. I wanted to go to Bard, but my dad absolutely refused to even consider

getting an application.

Ended up dropping out of state schools, several times.

Always hated school, still sometimes wish I could have gone to a good one just to see what it would be like.


mark

[kwenu]

32. High school? Hell, I go to the gym 3-4 times a week and I am still showering with gays...

and unlike in high school, I'm pretty certain they are gay. It's okay the world hasn't come to an end and for the most part people are respectful.

[Ozymanithrax]

33. I took PE, then spent 20 years in the Navy...

Yes, I've showered with gays. but I didn't know it until after they left the Navy where and were allowed to be honest.

[miscsoc]

36. that's a shame

since it must have really destroyed your morale. I'm sure you must know young men who died in combat due to the mental stress of showering with some guy who maybe thought they looked pretty. rip :( Just as well you only found out afterwards.

[Ozymanithrax]

45. Woudln't have made a bit of difference, except that they would have

received a bad conduct discharge. This was well before don't ask don't tell.

[miscsoc]

47. yus

being sarcastic, obviously. gay soldiers have never been a problem in any army in history, and it's hard to see how anyone could really believe that it could be otherwise. it's all just an excuse for the age old pastime of gay-bashing.

[Ozymanithrax]

51. Many people are afraid of change.

Grew up in Oklahoma in the 60's, and my attitudes toward gays were different as teenager, but changed as I educated myself and met them. Gays have fought in all of our wars, and died alongside of all of our heroes. The argument against gays in the military is purely on religious grounds. Down in the muck in Vietnam (my war) or Afghanistan, or Iraq, the only damn thing that mattered was if the guy had your back. They did. They were every bit as brave, noble, vicious, ugly, scared, brutish, and heroic as any one else. To deny them the right to serve in any capacity they see fit is a travesty.

[miscsoc]

54. It is.

"the only damn thing that mattered was if the guy had your back" - that's pretty much all that has to be said on the matter, isn't it? Nothing like mortal terror to knock the silly prejudices out of a person's head and make them realise what really counts.

[thelordofhell]

37. Hey, what about the girls?

Mmmmmm......gay girls in the shower.

:spank: :spray:

[miscsoc]

38. what

I can't figure out those smilies there. I get the spanking but what about the guy drinking magic water. Is this some fetish I haven't come across?

[northofdenali]

78. The fetish of laughing hard enough -

while imbibing to have it spew. Welcome to DU.

[Dappleganger]

43. Hey, I took showers with plenty of gay girls/women...

I played three seasons of sports. We KNEW it too, and doggonit--I didn't catch teh gay! :rofl:

[a la izquierda]

75. Me too...we knew...

none of us cared. I started swimming year round when I was 11, so I got used to getting nudey around other girls.

The only thing I have an issue with now is changing in the gym and having one of my students walk in...AWKWARD!

[RKP5637]

44. +1000, n/t

[CatWoman]

39. I have to weigh in on this

as I've always found that "shower" excuse so full of shit that it is ridiculous.

I was in the Army and served with lots of gay men and women.

Hell -- my best friends were gay and they were ALWAYS there for me.

Babysat my daughter when duty took me away. Always there with a helping hand when I was short of money. Always there with a word of encouragement when things were down.

I have never, EVER, heard of an incident of a gay person getting so turned on in a shower or anywhere else, that they lost all control and forced themselves on someone. Regardless if it were Men OR women.

My experience and observation is that gays pretty much are more comfortable with other gays. That "recruitment" argument is another ridiculous red herring.

I want to add that during my time in the service, it was always STRAIGHT MEN who harassed other women. Men too, probably. I can state that unequivocally.

[Ozymanithrax]

46. I was in the Navy when the Tailhook scandle exploded...

It was common before that time, for men to harass women in the military.

[Jennicut]

66. Good to hear your perspective. A friend of mine who was in the Army also

said the same thing-that there was some harassment of women by straight guys. I think some people want to deflect their own actions off on others.

[northofdenali]

88. When dad went to Korea -

Mom lived in 1/2 of a duplex owned and lived in by 2 gay partners. In 1951.

She loved it, got to go out everywhere (California!!!), danced, shopped, ate well (she still doesn't cook). Needless to say, anti-gay was NOT a household word while I was growing up. Dad blessed these guys 4-ways from Sunday.

[northzax]

40. Obviously I haven't

As a primo choice of man-meat, I know that women cannot resist me (except for those that are obviously blind or have some sort of mental defect) it only follows reason that gay men would have the same problem. Duh. Chicks dig me, obviously the homos would too.

Seriously though, I confess that I have checked men out at the gym, there was a guy at my old gym hung like Dirk Diggler. I mean how do you not?

[BoneDaddy]

50. What is the point?

Didnt bother me then, doesn't bother me now. stop with the drama, it won't change idiot's minds.

[The Straight Story]

52. We should let men shower with women too (nt)

[dsc]

60. given the strength differences between typical men and typical women

that is quite a different senario.

[chollybocker]

85. You're hilarious.

Look up the rate of currently serving female soldiers sexually harassed or raped by male soldiers. About 20-25%, last I read.

Now, look up the rate of gay soldiers hitting on straight soldiers. About zero.

Different.

[JanMichael]

53. Had to do it for about 5 years in school.

It doesn't bother or concern me the least that a gay guy saw me.

Ever. Ever. I am positive that many probably did as I wrestled, played soccer, participated in gym (back when you had to run a 12 minute mile to pass and then shower together; I now can run multiple miles in a little over 8 minutes) and baseball.

And I'm straight and married and happy with my wife but I do hope I made a good impression back then. Vanity can roam around cultural norms and bigotry. I hope I looked good!

[TexasObserver]

55. Or on the football team, or in the military, or at the gym.

[paulsby]

57. i also had them see me nekkid on the beach

since i spent a lot of time on a nude beach.

[Richard Steele]

58. K&R

[Behind the Aegis]

59. I like showering with gay guys, one in particular.

[3324SS]

62. OMG a Gay Male might

have seen me naked in PE and when I was in the military and lusted after me!

I am so damaged for life now!

OK here is a solution straight guys get to shower with women!

See problem solved!

[bridgit]

68. You & I should go out for drinks with my gay friends, they think 100% of everything is gay...

The sun the moon the stars and every species that teems beneath them except those in the closet that aren't aware of how gay they are. So your "neutral observers say 6% of Americans are gay" figure seems way low to me, too timid. Either way, no one should have to take a shower in a KBR shower as they are shocking enough as it is

[northofdenali]

69. Ditto if you were a girl and showered at high school -

or in locker rooms anywhere. So what? Lesbians don't generally care to hit on those of us who aren't, why bother?

My best friend from high school was an "out" lesbian in 1970!! I took many a shower in many a locker room with Kathy, and never once worried. Why should I? I wasn't raised that way. I'd no more worry about showering/working out/talking with/interacting with or anything else with someone who prefers others of their sex than I would worrying about same with others of a different race.

Unless, like Kathy, they were built way better than me. THAT pissed me off. :P

[JeffR]

71. "Unless, like Kathy, they were built way better than me. THAT pissed me off."

:rofl:

[northofdenali]

73. Well, damn, we are both now 58 and SHE the bitch -

looks 40. I still love/hate her. Her partner is even prettier and. Sigh. Younger.

Bitch.

BTW, I've emailed her the link to this. I'll hear about it, for sure!

:hug:

[JeffR]

77. I hope she's not watching the House preceedings on C-SPAN.

I swear I'm 20 years older than when I got up today. Just listened to Mike Pence and I think I'm about to lapse into a coma.

Hope all's well with you.:hug:

[northofdenali]

83. If I know Kathy, she's watching -

I don't have cable anymore (ran out of cable $$) except the very basics, so I'm getting her riled-up tweets about the repukes various antics.

Alls well, JeffR - :hug: to you and Nance - starting new J.O.B. tomorrow :)

[JeffR]

87. That's great.

Our best wishes for you!

[KonaKane]

80. You guys got to shower with GIRLS???

Damn. I went to the WRONG school.

[northofdenali]

81. I ARE a girl, silly. n/t

[TK421]

72. Couldn't tell you...I wasn't required to shower after PE

[lbrtbell]

79. Same goes for women

There are plenty of lesbians around, too. :)

[yodoobo]

82. If you drove to work today.. You probably passed a gay person

or one passed you.

Let that one sink in for awhile...

[pipi_k]

97. Something else to think about....

If you've ever tried stuff on in a clothing store, it was probably already tried on by a gay person.


Armies of gays are running around trying on pants and slacks and laughing hysterically...


:7

[Politicub]

84. WTFOMG - Your doctor may be teh gay and may see you NAKED!!1!!

Not you personally :), this is directed at the irrational people who are for DADT and using the argument that you outlined in the OP.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Never had to do it in Gymn class, another country

but one of my kids WAS gay...

He\she did not flout it (protect the guilty, and that is not exactly this person... it is the idiots I had to give a long very one sided talk to)

You see it wasn't against the rules... and lord knows I did not care as long as people did their job. But a few of my guys AND gals did... this was at the height of the AIDs Hysteria.

So shall we say we had a few on the job ahem conversations...

What was amazing about that experience was that our LGBT member did not say it... but a few ahem FOUND OUT... and then the fear came out. So we had a few ahem interesting weekends... ah the times that try a leader... one of our long term members actually said, well this *(&*I)^ has to leave or I will.

So what is stopping you? Nothing against nature in them regulations. If this makes you so uncomfortable... well there is the door, and thank you for your service. Yes I was that blunt... I was willing to lose his 20+ years of experience to keep the peace.

He staid after a lot of grumbling and going over regs and NOT finding anything he could use, our LGBT member staid... and ironically they ended becoming good friends. And everybody got a lesson in tolerance.

Oh and by the way, that was also the time we taught our kids HOW to use a condom... which was all kinds of fun with the Nuns.

:-)

But, they are....

Very capable of having sex, and responsible adults. I am not blind... ah the days... and public education to prevent the spread of AIDS...

By the way I also carried condoms in my trauma kit... yes they had TWO uses... beyond the usual one. They make wonderful EMERGENCY FLUTTER VALVES... and they are like sterile and shit. I am sure if there are any vets readying this, you know the OTHER use, which dirty minds, does not have a thing to do with sex either... They are great to keep muzzles clean...

[begin_within]

89. This thread is useless without pictures.

[RKP5637]

91. +1000!!! n/t

[MellowDem]

93. What about a woman? I'm guessing they've showered with lesbians.

We actually never showered after PE in my high school or middle school, maybe because of that fear or more likely because we only had 45 minutes per period and it took about ten minutes to change into and out of our PE clothes regardless.

[cbdo2007]

94. In all my years of gym in school - I never knew anyone who showered afterward.

We just changed clothes and slapped on some deodorant and went to our next class. No big deal.

[pipi_k]

95. Yep, that's what we did too

Mainly because there wasn't time to get undressed, shower, get dry, get dressed, and get to our next class. Especially if the PE teacher didn't end the class in plenty of time. Would have been different if PE class had been at the end of the day, but it wasn't. Not for me, anyway.

In any case, I don't think I ever killed anyone with post-PE sweatstinkies...

[JackDragna]

96. Oh, god no! All those terrible homosexals looking at me!

I must wash myself clean! They've made me impure, these gay folks. Uh..any good men's showers around here?