While everyone is cheering and high fiving, stop a second and think about women .......

[Stinky The Clown]

..... they had some of their rights eroded tonight. For the sake of a win?

Yes, the win is a good thing.

But the price was dear.

It did not have to be this way.

[stray cat]

Supposedly it isn't changed from current law - and think of women who can't get basic insurance

[NYC_SKP]

8. Correct. Womens' rights will not be eroded by this bill. Nothing to see here. Please move along...

eom.

:eyes:

[leftstreet]

1. Tough Shit! WE HAD A WIN!!!!111111

Just in case:

:sarcasm:

[robinblue]

62. glad to see the icon.

[FrenchieCat]

2. I am a woman, with two daughters.

Nothing has changed on the ability to get an abortion.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katandmoon]

40. Yes it has. Obama bargained with the devil using women's reproductive rights.

[liquid diamond]

68. Using federal funds to pay for abortion wasn't allowed anyway.

Obama threw Stupak a bone. Big fucking deal.

[CLANG]

93. Can you be any more specific, or is this just your "gut feeling"?

[truedelphi]

106. Women will die because of this. A long time ago, 1972, in a life I can barely remember

can barely remember, I found out I was pregnant. One thirty in the afternoon.

I was twenty. As I walked home from work, I was somewhat excited, and somewhat scared. The pregnancy was not planned, but I knew my husband would be happy and somehow we would muddle our way through.

By the time I reached the house, I was spotting. By the time J. arrived home, I was bleeding very
heavily.

At 2 Am, I went into convulsions. What to do? I didn't think my parent's insurance covered me, and we didn't have insurance of our own.

We called the Chicago police, who hoisted me on a gurney and took both of us to the local hospital.

The doctor at the ER, probably a mere resident, was terrified of my situation. I was out of it by this time. I remember joking that he looked so very young, and as I was fading out, I heard him telling a nurse, "We cannot admit her. if this was an abortion she performed on herself, I could lose my license and so could the whole hospital."

Long story short - he sent us back home - while I hemorrhaged!

And all we had for that trip was a prescription we couldn't even fill until the time when the drug store opened. Supposedly the medication would stop the bleeding.

Luckily my mom stopped over at the house, something she never did mid-week. She put me in her car and took me to my childhood pediatrician. they worked things out so I was still on the folk's insurance. i was given a D & C as emergency surgery.

My body was so overwhelmed by everything that had happened, it failed to make red blood cells. I was in the hospital for a while, and when I got out I weighed 87 pounds (I am five feet eleven.)

When abortion rights are not a fundamental right, this is what happens. The only difference between what happened to me and what will happen to other twenty somethings is that they may be asked by the hospital to pay for the D & C upfront. If they cannot, too bad.

[Dappleganger]

45. Same here.

Nothing added or removed, just the status quo. Although I want to see that changed very soon.

[NotThisTime]

55. Agreed...

[Mojorabbit]

94. Are you sure?

I have tried to find more info on this. I read most private insurance policies (85%)cover the procedure. If the company wants to be in the pools will they have to drop the coverage? That is what I can't find. I did get an email from naral voicing their rationale for supporting the bill but stating their reservations.

[Johonny]

95. As far as I know there is one change

You will now pay two premiums instead of one. The abortion part of your private health insurance will have to be billed separate. It's an odd change. I guess the thought is many people didn't know they had that coverage and might drop it or something now that they do. Although for those that get it through their company, it's not like they'll see a change. And of course if you can now get insurance and couldn't before then you are way better off.

Still there is some feeling this wasn't a win for women's rights. I see that. Once again male legislators fought hard for provisions that single out women.

[Gormy Cuss]

101. Yes, and that's nothing to celebrate. Whatever happened to Change We Can Believe In?

[liberalmuse]

3. All President Obama's executive order will do...

is emphasize the already existing laws - which need to fucking go, btw. Stupak is a fucking idiot and I'm going to donate as much $ as I can to his primary opponent. What a piece of shit.

[AllyCat]

53. Then why is it necessary?

[msanthrope]

79. Because Stupak needed cover for the vote. n/t

[Peacetrain]

4. Nothing changed...

[riderinthestorm]

5. You rock!!

Thanks for getting it. Too many DUers are okay with women's rights getting thrown out just for the "win".

The language of his Executive Order codifies "segregationist" and "inequal" treatment of women. Not only did he go a lot farther to prop up the Hyde Amendment, his language in the EO went even further.

[laughingliberal]

103. And did you see posts here yesterday saying we need to protect Stupak

cause he did the right thing and needed to be protected in his district? Nuts! He has a primary challenger. Support that!

[cali]

6. Actually, nothing has changed re abortion.

[RetroLounge]

64. If nothing changed, then why is the EO needed?

:shrug:

RL

[dixiegrrrrl]

74. To reassure Stupack. Who is dumb as a box of hammers.

[Dappleganger]

97. Best. Answer.

[ingac70]

How is it any different than before?

It is still just like the Hyde Amendment.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Facts don't really count.

because being mad at something counts for so much more.

[Walk away]

27. Because even if I paid my full premium to the "exchange" I would not be able to buy...

insurance that covered abortion.

[AllyCat]

54. Ding ding ding! But you are just being a sore loser.

Do I need the sarcasm thingy on that last part?

[Gormy Cuss]

104. It's the Hyde Amendment extended to even more women.

That's the difference.

[robinblue]

7. Things could have been so different. No, it did not have

to be this way. :cry:

[babylonsister]

18. Since you're so emotional, do explain what was lost, because I'm

not understanding. Thx.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. Wrong

Obama's signing statement basically says, "Yeah, the Hyde Amendment is still in force". The Hyde Amendment forbade all public funding of abortion.

The signing statement allows Stupak & Co. to save face.

Of course, one of the next tasks for us is to repeal the damned Hyde Amendment.

--d!

[NRaleighLiberal]

10. It was a win for millions of people. It is not perfect, and the remaining work must be a high

priority. My wife and two daughters are happy tonight not because of what didn't get accomplished, but because of what did.

We are preparing to celebrate in our house.

[demwing]

12. Show us

what rights were eroded, and how they were eroded.

There is a difference between an assertion and a fact - just saying something does not make it so.

[yewberry]

117. Easy.

My insurance coverage may no longer cover abortion except in cases of incest, rape, or if my life is at risk. Hope I don't develop any kind of health problems during a pregnancy that could be detrimental to my health, because my insurance wouldn't necessarily be able to provide therapeutic services beyond lifesaving measures.

I now need to buy additional coverage, coverage that doesn't actually exist. Do you know where to buy a rider for a single procedure right now? I sure don't, and I've been paying attention.

The majority of pregnancies are unplanned (and especially complicated pregnancies), so I and every other woman of childbearing age must now buy extra coverage...somewhere...we hope.

Suppose I'm pregnant now. I'm insured but I haven't purchased a rider for abortion coverage. What do I do if I get a cancer diagnosis? A fetus with anencephaly?

Yeah, I don't know either. Cross your fingers for pregnant women everywhere.

[BlueJazz]

13. I'll Paraphrase something: "Religion is the only thing that keeps Women from killing all the Men."

:)

[BrklynLiberal]

26. LOLOLOLOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[WillyT]

33. ROFLMAO !!! - That's Perfect !!!

:rofl:

:yourock:

:bounce:

:hi:

[Mira]

69. If men were the ones to give birth, abortion would long be a sacrament.

It's nothing but a way to wield power over women.
And I'm fuckin' tired of it.

[Autumn]

80. If men were the ones to give birth, abortion would be a sport,

and politicians would make money off it. Agree totally.

[JanMichael]

82. I men had to give birth then humanity would die out.

Yeah, I'm a guy.

[Teaser]

14. stanky fails again.

no they didn't. It's just a restatement of the Hyde Amendment. And Bart Stupak gets to make a speech.

[Nikki Stone1]

15. Amazing how I rec'd you and got instantly unrec'd

Is there a software program set up for this?

[NJmaverick]

16. bullshit!

[LeftyMom]

17. An insurance company has more rights than I do. What else is new?

Maybe women should pool our money and buy ourselves a congresscritter or two.

[Lorien]

44. I wish I had money to pool, but my unpaid insurance claims took everything I have

x(

[stuntcat]

113. Ugh x(

I saw what you wrote about that earlier (or yesterday) It made NO SENSE for someone to be set back like that for medical care x( NO effin sense at all.

EVERYONE needs doctors.
Also it's frickin 2010.. in proud America.

[Walk away]

19. I know Stinky. I've been thinking about my nieces all week while,,

Stupak forced his warped views down the country's throats. As relieved as I am that HCR has at least begun with this bill, I am a little shocked at how easy it was to throw a women's right to her own body under the bus.

[ingac70]

24. There isn't any difference.

We've had a piece of shit called the Hyde Amendment that does the same thing for years.

Exactly who is going to be stopped from getting an abortion once this passes that would have got one government paid for before?

[Walk away]

32. I'll say it again. Even if you pay fully for health insurance....

through the "Exchange" you will not be able to get insurance that covers abortion. That's what is different.

[ingac70]

81. ...

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/mar/18/top-10-facts-know-about-health-care-reform/

[yewberry]

116. That ain't the same thing.

My existing coverage would no longer cover abortion or potentially abortion-associated procedures outside of rape, incest, or life-threatening complications.

I now need to buy a rider, extra insurance for a single procedure. This extra coverage doesn't actually exist where I live. Does it exist where you live?

Also, 50% of pregnancies are unplanned, and no one actually plans for a complicated pregnancy. So now every heterosexual woman of childbearing age is now expected to shell out for extra coverage, if they can even get it, on the chance they might get pregnant.

Oh, yes, that's just terrific and not a problem at all.

[HughMoran]

110. Pro-choice caucus woman on Rachel doesn't agree with you

So, there's that.

[tammywammy]

20. Did anything change? Isn't it the same as before?

No federal funding for abortion was already the law. Do I agree with that, no, but I don't believe my rights were eroded one bit.

[CTyankee]

35. Actually, no. There was a Supreme Court decision that validated the Hyde amendment.

Harris v. McRae 1980.

[Skittles]

49. see #32

[Xipe Totec]

21. You are wrong on this point, dear friend

Granted, this bill does not advance the rights of women to have full control of their bodies.

But is also does not undermine them.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ingac70]

31. Bullshit....

and your journal also suggests that a woman can just walk into a pharmacy and get RU-486.

She can't, and has never been able to.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. Ironic, isn't t?

[laughingliberal]

28. You're spoiling the party.

:sarcasm:

[HughMoran]

111. jan schakowsky, pro-choice caucus Congresswoman disagrees with Stinky

[rzemanfl]

29. Excuse me for asking a question so dumb, it is my age I assure

you, but do most insurance policies cover elective abortions now?

[ingac70]

34. Some do....

it's far cheaper than covering a birth and new baby.

[rzemanfl]

42. Thanks. I come from the days when the guy paid because it was

cheaper than 18 years of child support.

[Stinky The Clown]

71. The same sentiment applies with regard to the answer to your question

[riderinthestorm]

38. I believe the number is close to 80% of health insurance companies offer abortion coverage now

it's so much cheaper to cover that procedure than pre natal care, birth and post natal care.

Under this bill, women aren't allowed to get that same opportunity from the exchanges.

[rzemanfl]

43. Thanks for the information. I come from the days when the

the risk of prison time was the main concern.

[Coexist]

60. wow. I never in my life had any insurance coverage that covered an abortion

[Cerridwen]

59. A few more than cover pre-existing conditions. n/t

[ecstatic]

100. Many women without insurance had to pay out of pocket before

Getting insurance now will give them access to care they didn't have access too before, but abortion costs will remain the same if using government exchanges.

[TorchTheWitch]

118. it covers ALL abortions - not just elective ones

Not all abortions are because a woman finds herself pregnant and doesn't want to be. Fetus dies in the womb and doesn't come out? Abortion procedure is necessary. Ectopic pregnancy? Abortion procedure is necessary. A miscarriage is nothing more than a natural abortion process, and unfortunately the fetus doesn't always come out before it is necessary to medically intervene with a medical abortion procedure. There are all manner of unforseen circumstances in a WANTED pregnancy that may end up requiring a medical abortion.

[ProSense]

30. Think

about this:

President Obama’s health care reform proposal would make a real difference for the women and families who rely on Planned Parenthood. It would extend health care coverage to tens of millions of Americans; guarantee access to affordable preventive screenings for cancer and other life-saving tests; protect women against gender discrimination by private insurers; end the practice of dropping coverage because of pre-existing conditions; and significantly increase access to reproductive health care.

link

[frazzled]

36. This bill will help women more than any other demographic

I believe you heard Nancy Pelosi speak about that the other day.

Insurance companies are currently allowed to gender-rate--charge more for women than for men. Insurance companies can reject a woman because she had a previous C-section, or refuse to pay for a future C-section. Since women are poorer than men on the whole (remember, they earn 78 cents on the dollar), and because they have reproductive health needs, and because more of them are uninsured or underinsured compared to men (45% vs. 39%), this bill will help more women to obtain and afford insurance.

There are many more ways in which this will help women. Some facts are here:

http://nwlc.org/reformmatters/pdf/statewhywomenneedhcr/NATIONALHCRFactSheet_FinalPush.pdf

I am a strong supporter of abortion rights. I have been distressed at using this issue as a bludgeon in negotiations. But the fact remains: the Hyde amendment was in place before this bill, and it will be in place after this bill. Nothing has changed. If I have to weigh the pros versus the cons for women, I say this bill helps far more than hurts. (Even economically: an abortion costs between $350-$700, depending on the date of termination; a C-section can cost a woman $25,000.) Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land, and we will work hard to keep it that way. We have and can find ways to pay for abortions for women who can't afford them.

[AllyCat]

58. Just as long as they don't want a particular legal medical procedure?

[HughMoran]

112. Pro-choice caucus woman jan schakowsky on Rachel doesn't agree with you

So, perhaps the truth might be helpful?

[AllyCat]

114. Oh well if she's a representative, she must be right.

[riderinthestorm]

37. You can read the text yourself

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/21/one-more-step-towards-health-insurance-reform

It's very anti-women and certainly contains some language in there that's troubling. I don't want to replicate Cerridwen's fine OP about the text and it's "segregationist" and "inequal" language but Obama didn't have to go this route.

If DUers can't see the problem with this EO, then they are hopeless about women's rights and this Admin.

ETA link to Cerridwen's OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7974726

[Stinky The Clown]

73. Its called "Blinded by the Light"

It is at epidemic proportions.

It isn't covered by the health care thingie they passed today.

[karynnj]

39. Women gained vs the status quo

Abortion is no less legal than it was. As to federal funding, it is not legal today and it won't be under the bill. No change. There is no reasonable likelihood of Hyde being repealed.

The gain - all the other improvements on other healthcare issues.

Did it have to be this way? It looks like there were not enough votes without it - and it looks like NOTHING was given away.

[Lorien]

46. WHAT IMPROVEMENTS??? Give us solid examples. and don't tell us that being FORCED

to purchase a crap product which may or may not pay a claim is an "improvement".

[salguine]

61. I don't envision an answer to that coming anytime soon, Lorien.

[karynnj]

66. The lists have been given often

kids can be on their parents' plan until age 26 - that includes many young women is one easy to prove benefit.

(I have no intention to repeat the list given often.)

[Xenotime]

41. The thing is we can put in whatever we want. We just need to get our foot in door.

[Motown_Johnny]

47. the Hyde Amendment is still the law, nothing has changed

[lbrtbell]

48. I know, and that bothers me a lot

I'm hoping that, if we can primary a-holes like Stupak out of office, that the next Congress can do something to either tweak the bill, or bolster reproductive choice rights another way.

[jillan]

50. What are you talking about? What did we give up?

[AllyCat]

56. Obama is issuing an executive order that fed funds won't be used for abortion

I.E. the "exchange" will not provide coverage for women to obtain a legal medical procedure. Your health care was just one of those poker chips they threw into the mix to make sure everyone has to buy a crummy product.

Enjoy. :puke:

[sandnsea]

76. That is just not true

People can purchase their own abortion rider. Federal funds will continue to provide abortion in cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother.

It is really not that difficult to write an extra check, probably once a year actually.

[AllyCat]

87. Oh yes, for those women who PLAN to have an unplanned pregnancy and

then get an abortion, they can just write one extra check. Or use the convenient pay on-line option.

The ease of which one can do this is not really the point.

[AllyCat]

51. It's so liberating to have our healthcare used as a bargaining chip

No?

I feel at this point I can no longer support ANYONE who voted for this POS.

[dana_b]

52. thanks Stinky

and for those who keep saying "nothing has changed!" - yes it has. Some insurance companies would help pay for abortions. Now, that isn't so.

[Cerridwen]

57. The "status quo" is acceptable when it applies to women in poverty.

From Guttmacher:

• The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women). This is partly because the rate of unintended pregnancies among poor women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty* (112 vs. 29 per 1,000 women

• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.

Unfortunately, as I've been assured by talking heads, pop culture, former friends, and a few DUers, all "those" women who get pregnant are just stupid and/or sluts. Kinda funny those talking heads, et.al. deem them "worthy" of reproducing or more accurately, "worthy of the 'punishment' of pregnancy and poverty," but don't deem them "worthy" of controlling their own bodies. If it leads them further into poverty, well, that's just because they're "unworthy."

By stopping federal funding for women in poverty, the "pro-life" groups will cause more abortions. I'm sure there's no gender, class or race issue going on there, right?

The "status quo" is perfectly acceptable for those we deem "unworthy." As long as the "status quo" keeps them in their place.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. Yup .... and there's that.

:thumbsup:

[Generic Other]

63. And what happenes to those whose lives are at risk?

They will be allowed to die, I guess. Because the law is clear. The fetus is more a person than a woman.

[Coexist]

65. rape incest and life of mother are exceptions, always have been

[Radical Activist]

70. OK I'll think about more pre-natal care, more cases of breast cancer caught early and more women

who won't have to stay in a bad marriage for the health insurance. That's what I'll think about.

[NYC_SKP]

75. +1. This post is proof that Recs are meaningless as a measure of common sense.

Womens' rights are of vital interest, but this topic is also very emotional and people will rec it regardless of it's validity.

[Kitty Herder]

72. Thanks, Stinky!

[Individualist]

77. K&R

[bvar22]

78. Thank GAWD it passed!!!!

The Wall Street Banksters got their Trillion Dollars.
Its only fair that the Health Insurance Industry gets their Trillion Dollars too!
.
.
.
.
.
.

We did NOT have to eat the whole Shit Pie to get the few good crumbs.
The Corpocrats did an excellent marketing job framing it this way.

[HughMoran]

92. Fail

promoting lies

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boomerbust]

84. Smelly The Clown

FAIL

[Stinky The Clown]

86. Real clever, you are

That's what ...... seventh grade?

Geezus ..... late to the party and lame to boot.

[depakid]

85. As I've said before- EVERY traditional Democrats constituency needs to watch their backs

because neither Congress nor this administration can be trusted not to backstab them.

Better be ready to put the pressure on and keep it on.

[WeekendWarrior]

88. ERODED HOW?

Nothing has changed for women in this bill. Zero. Nada.

[JoeyT]

89. Being forced to buy insurance that

can't cover a legal medical procedure because someone bartered your right to your own body away doesn't seem like it advanced women's rights much to me either, but what do I know.

[HughMoran]

90. Preserving the status quo?

The lack of accurate information in GD lately is really pissing me off.

[MellowDem]

91. No, they didn't... nt

[Stinky The Clown]

96. Actually, they did. Here's how:

Some (not all) insurance paid for elective abortions. The reason was probably not a good one, but they did cover it. I'm guessing they decided what young men with pregnant girlfriends did back in the day: an abortion was cheaper than 18 years of paying for an inconvenient child.

No matter ...... abortion was covered by some policies.

Now, no policy that is sold to anyone under this new law can cover elective abortions. That is probably most policies. The abortions are no more or less illegal, only access to them.

I expect this will affect the poor more than those who get their policies otherwise.

[ecstatic]

102. Come back when you get your facts straight

If you are right, you won't need to post misinformation to get a point across.

[Stinky The Clown]

105. Please reconsider your non-reply

"Post misinformation"?

Really?

[HughMoran]

108. Pro-choice caucus woman on Rachel doesn't agree with you

:shrug:

better luck next time?

[Vinca]

98. It makes me want to lobby for forced vasectomies to end abortion.

[AllyCat]

115. +1

[ecstatic]

99. I'll be just fine. Thanks for your concern nt

[MichiganVote]

107. So what's new? A bunch of white dough boys make the rules? Fuckers have

probably bought and paid for more than a few abortions in their congressional lifetimes. They're assholes.

Thanks Stinky, ignore the shitheads. They don't get it and never will.

[HughMoran]

109. Pro-choice caucus woman on Rachel doesn't agree with you

:shrug:

[MichiganVote]

119. So?

[kestrel91316]

120. Women these days don't care about abortion rights. Well, at least until they

personally need an abortion. I worked long and hard to see that we HAD that right throughout the 80's, and now nobody gives a damn. I'm no longer a fertile age, so I'm done worrying and done caring. My efforts were a waste.