This HCR bill will be the greatest boon to employment freedom in history

[WonderGrunion]

How many people are stuck in jobs because of the state of their health? How many Americans are unable to pursue their careers outside their current job because they are petrified of losing insurance coverage if they leave their current job? The insurance companies ability to deny coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" will be eliminated after tonight's vote. This one act will allow workers across America the freedom to leave jobs without worrying if their diabetes or cancer or AIDS treatments will come to an end as a result of their desire to make a better life for themselves.

This HCR bill IS a jobs bill. It is the greatest boon to American workers since the New Deal. What is happening tonight will be truly transformational to American society. It is the reason I am a Democrat and will always be a proud member of the Democratic Party.

Thank you President Obama. Thank you Speaker Pelosi.

[babylonsister]

1. Rec'd. Great point! nt

[WonderGrunion]

41. This is the biggest landscape change in 50 years

It's truly historic what has been achieved tonight.

[avaistheone1]

50. How so? Sounds like a bunch of b.s. to me.

There are not enough people who will be covered by this "health care reform bill to create that kind of change,
and more importantly their are not many good paying jobs for people to more into.

Transformational- I think that is really stretching things given how many people still can not afford health coverage with this reform bill, and that the prospects for great employments gains are dim given the state of the economy and this administration commitment to free trade and offshoring. I think the only transformation will be is that we will all be waving more jobs good-by to other countries like China and India, unless this country sets up some protections.

[ramapo]

2. I have felt this all along

It is so obvious. Many times over the years, I have made career decisions with the thought of health insurance at or near the top.

[WonderGrunion]

7. No longer will a parent be afraid that they are one pink slip away

from being able to provide their child a life saving operation.

[Tomorrows Dream]

3. Sliced bread?

Might be overstating things a bit here comrade.

[WonderGrunion]

5. I don't think I am at all.

This is one of those rare points in history where hyperbole is warranted.

Welcome to DU.

[graywarrior]

4. Every crap retail outlet in North Conway NH will close

[babylonsister]

8. Is that good or bad?

:shrug:

[graywarrior]

21. Neither

Live Free or Die is the NH way.

[WonderGrunion]

47. How many crap retail outlets

does North Conway have?

[ramapo]

59. Why?

Healthy people won't buy crap?

[Roland99]

6. Eliminated? When? In four years? And at what cost will the premiums be then?

Funny no one seems to want to address that point.

[WonderGrunion]

10. See all those trees around you?

They do form a forest. No legislation is perfect and this bill does a damned lot of good.

[Roland99]

16. ...for the insurance companies

There...fixed your statement.

[WonderGrunion]

26. This is the beginning of the end for private health insurers

There is a reason that they are fighting this bill so much.

[Roland99]

29. HA! Yeah right. This will make them even STRONGER.

And with Obama scuttling any hope of Single Payer (he called it "too radical") and his breaking of campaign promises and the DLC corporate whores slamming the Progressives and Liberals and siding with their corporate masters and...


Yeah...insurance companies are doomed alright.

:eyes:

[WonderGrunion]

32. Pelosi and Obama had to go through all this trouble to get 219 votes

for THIS bill. What color is the sky in the land where Single Payer would have passed this congress?

[Roland99]

34. Blue. As blue as can possibly be. Trouble is, the sky in too many Dems' world is green

the color of the money in their campaign coffers from insurance companies, pharma companies, etc.

[WonderGrunion]

38. I prefer to celebrate what we have achieved

Not mourn what we have yet to achieve.

I hope someday you can truly appreciate exactly how much good has been done with the passage of this bill.

[Roland99]

40. Sorry. 32 million captive suckers doesn't enthrall me.

[WonderGrunion]

42. I don't want you to be enthralled

I just want you to recognize that you're completely wrong.

[Roland99]

46. BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

:eyes:

[babylonsister]

11. Go here and read #1...this is immediate.

http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/IMMEDIATE_PROVISIONS.pdf

[Roland99]

15. Care to offer up anything of substance as to how that will keep premiums from rising quickly?

And care to offer anything of substance as to how that will mean accepting pre-existing conditions happens immediately?

[babylonsister]

22. Care to read what was posted, or can't you be bothered?

#1. SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS—Offers tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available to firms that choose to offer coverage. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, the small business tax credits will cover 50 percent of premiums.)

Or read this, or don't bother. I can't help ya, honey.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=229911

[Roland99]

30. I read the PDF at the link but it offered NOTHING to answer my questions.

Now, try again, "honey"

[Roland99]

19. From your own link. Pre-existing conditions not covered for the 1st *FOUR* years (except children)

6.
NO DISCRIMINATON AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE‐EXISTING CONDITIONS—Prohibits health plans from denying coverage to children with pre‐existing conditions. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, this prohibition would apply to all persons.)

[babylonsister]

28. Yes, but wasn't this thread about jobs primarily?

And you know what, pack sand. I have a pre-existing condition, and if I have to wait for 4 years for something to kick in for me at my age, so be it. Better than to wait another decade for the start of this process. So take your disappointment and enjoy it. I'm enjoying the possibilities that might finally eventually apply.

[Roland99]

31. And in four years when you can't afford that coverage as the premium is too high?

Don't come crying to those of us who wanted this right the first time.

[babylonsister]

33. Don't worry. I have your address and will be sitting on your doorstep

begging for help. Count on it. ;)

[Roland99]

35. I may have a few scraps to spare after I fork over the equivalent of a mortgage for my premiums.

[femmocrat]

9. Your first question: Me!

Your second question: Me!

I've said that all along. If I could retire with health care benefits, I would retire this year. This would free up my position for some younger person who needs the job to buy a house, get married, buy a car, start a family, go back to school, etc....

I have been "held hostage" by the need for health care insurance. I'm free at last! (Or will be soon, I hope!)

[WonderGrunion]

13. The current system is a form of corporate terrorism.

President Obama and Speaker Pelosi have just negotiated to let the hostages be released.

[CountAllVotes]

12. it will change people's lives forever!

I agree with you. I always took jobs because of the benefits and crappy jobs they were! How I longed to work somewhere else doing something else. However, that was not an option for me as I needed the benefits for me and my husband, hence I worked on and on and on in jobs I absolutely hated for too many years of my life.

Now that this is not the situation, people are free to explore other lines of work and different occupations. It will be amazing what sorts of change we shall see and what sorts of innovations may come forth. This will spark creativity like we have never seen in this country.

Dare I say it is perhaps the beginning of a new Renaissance?

Change is coming to America alright and this is what opened the door to that desperately needed change!

:kick: & recommend. !! :)

[WonderGrunion]

43. This is way more far sweeping than just covering 31 million Americans

I can hardly believe the title of this post... "JUST" covering 31 million Americans. Every American that has been afraid to change their job because of insurance has been unshackled. This is a modern day Emancipation Proclamation.

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Now if only there were any jobs

Freedom to "leave" a job? Millions should be so lucky.

[WonderGrunion]

24. I spent nearly a year unemployed due to the Bush economy.

I just found work a few months ago. Not the greatest job, but a job none-the-less. I'm looking to the future as the economy recovers and the job market flourishes again.

[femmocrat]

25. When we boomers start to retire en masse, there will be more jobs.

We are like the rat in the belly of the snake! LOL

[WonderGrunion]

36. Not at all.

You're more like the chocolate bunny in the belly of the baby.

That analogy seemed to work better before I put it to post.

[femmocrat]

37. Ahhh. Thank you.

:hug:

[WonderGrunion]

39. You're quite welcome

:hug: :grouphug:

[avaistheone1]

51. On average most people have $14,000 saved for retirement

so I don't think there will be any mass retirements.

[HughBeaumont]

54. I tell people this and they don't believe it.

RW'ers think Americans by and large are unaffected by landmines that happen in their lives. They don't get that illness, job loss, accidents, etc. . . . DO happen. They think there's no such thing as bad luck and we all have giant cash stores at our disposal.

[Politicub]

17. Absolutely - many people stick with their crap jobs just for HC

Goodbye fear of losing benefits. One day, we'll scratch our heads and wonder how archaic our HC system was before.

[WonderGrunion]

23. Even now, i think many people don't see how much this bill

will transform American society. It is not the best possible healthcare bill that could exist, but it is a true paradigm shift in how Americans will live their lives and approach their employment decisions.

[Skittles]

55. because it does nothing to control costs

[madokie]

18. Agreed

[Bitwit1234]

20. And just think..this does not have to go back to the senate

Once the house passes it, it goes to Obama and is law...thank the good Lord for this miracle, that the senate won't have to get their hands on it.

[WonderGrunion]

27. Yes, after this passes in a few minutes we will have reform

The rest is just window dressing. There will be many future fixes of this bill, much like with Social Security and Medicare. But the beginning of real change is happening before our eyes.

[TexasObserver]

44. recommend

The tribe has spoken.

I'm on board.

[WonderGrunion]

45. Thanks

Now we work to improve the bill. This is an historic night.

[fujiyama]

48. It's a good start

but I think a lot of what is in it will be lost to people out there. That's the sad thing. But I'm impressed Obama and Pelosi never gave up.

Certain things in this are basic common sense - like ending pre-existing conditions and kicking people off for getting an illness, ending lifetime caps, etc. Then again there are a lot of ass holes out there. This country's mentality is "I've got mean so screw you"(reminds me of Cartman from South Park).

[eridani]

49. Nonsense. Not until 2014. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. Here you go...

http://www.txhealthpool.com/01-01-2010_Regular_Rates-Instructions_Posted_11-17-09.pdf

A look at Texas High Risk Pool Insurance costs. Pay special attention to the 35-65 costs. How many people would leave their current job if they realized they had to pay that for coverage?

[Karmadillo]

53. Buzzkill

nt

[mmonk]

56. I think it will allow some to switch jobs (which is good) and allow

some companies to rely on the exchange to give "consumer friendly" as the industry calls it, policies to workers which should help a little in allowing an additional job or two in a small business but a jobs bonanza would come more from something like single payer.

[inna]

57. I'm sorry, that is a nice thought, but it has little to do with reality.

"This HCR bill IS a jobs bill. It is the greatest boon to American workers since the New Deal."

LOL, that is just nonsense. Universal Health Care WOULD be the greatest boon to American workers since the New Deal, but the current insurance reform has nothing to do with Universal Health Care. Foregoing employer-based coverage will place a great financial burden directly on individuals, especially on those with moderate income who are ineligible for subsidies.


Here's an example for a 64 year-old at 401% FPL in a high-cost area: http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx#tableLinkDiv

Note: based on 2009 income and FPL (Federal Poverty Levels): 401% FPL = $43,428 (single individual) or $88,421 (family of 4)

A 64 y.o. single individual at 401% FPL ($43,428 annual income)
will pay $9,494 (which is 21.9% of their entire income) just in premiums,
before any out-of pocket expenses, deductibles and copays. None of it is subsidized.


Even worse, for a family of 4 at 401% FPL ($88,421 annual income),
premiums will be $25,591 (that is, 28.9% of their entire income).

Looks more like serfdom than a "boon". :shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

58. I think the problem is that people don't know what's in the bill.....

especially some here at DU. So they've come up with what's not in the bill,
or what they have been told is not in the bill, and have developed soundbytes
based on that knowledge, which isn't really knowledge.

I think some will be surprised at all that is in there.

I've been reading it for a while now, based on the various section headers
at the beginning of the bill.

This is the original bill, and there has been a few changes....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22734971/Senate-Democrats-Health-Care-Reform-Bill

but folks need to read it, cause some are just commenting by pulling shit out of their asses.

And yes, I agree, this bill will free up a lot of people's lives, even if those who
don't know diddly squat and just want to continue being enraged will try to argue
that this is not that big of thing (probably cause it's not a big thing for them,
and they think everyone lives their lives the same way).