Let's talk about society's perception of fat people.

[BreweryYardRat]

Since I didn't check the forum before I initially posted this thread, it wound up in GD: P. So I'm starting a new one.

There's a lot of talk about women and weight, and I'll encourage that in this thread. Let's talk about fat men too. I'll put myself out as an example.

I'm 18. I stand 6'2", weigh roughly 250 lbs, and have a 22.4% body fat percentage. And in this charmingly fucked-up society of ours, that means most people give me disgusted looks, or look right through me like I'm not even there. I had to grow facial hair to conceal my double chin. Women don't even notice me as a potential romantic interest 90% of the time, although some of that may stem from poor social skills.

I won't claim my eating habits are all that great. I eat my share of junk food, especially chocolate. I've got a bad craving for Pop-Tarts. But I eat healthy food too. Breakfast this morning was a bowl of oatmeal with cinnamon, Slim-Fast and whey protein. I can scarf large quantities of meat (dinner last night was 2/3 lbs of roast beef, some orange juice, and a cookie), but I do my best to trim the fat off.

I work out on a regular basis. Losing weight is hard for me because I hate cardio exercise, and I don't use any supplements besides whey protein blend from GNC. I prefer to lift weights, and I'm stronger than I look.

I'll never be really lean, because I suspect part of it's genetic. Several members of my family on my mother's side (two uncles, two cousins) are big men too. When your genes are wired to retain a certain degree of fat, there's no way to look like a cover model for Men's Health. The most I can hope for is to get down to 15-18% body fat or so.

Looking like a cover model for Men's Health isn't healthy, either. The human body needs a degree of body fat in order to optimize performance. And our society ignores this, for men and women. "Thin is in," no matter if it's unhealthy or not.

There's also a nasty stereotype of fat people being stupid, but I have to get ready for my 9:30 class. I'll address that later.

***

And folks, let's not have any hateful remarks in this thread. I've seen some in other threads on the subject, and I want to avoid that here.

[Frustratedlady]

1. Good luck with your diet. You will do just fine.

Be sure to check your food for high fructose syrup. It is in everything. I truly believe it is the cause of so much of the overweight problems in the U.S. today. If I'm wrong, will someone please tell me so?

[Kali]

11. corn syrup, cars and television

Nobody does ANYTHING physical unless they pay money to go to a gym.

[SmokingJacket]

37. I live less than a mile from a shopping center, and NO ONE in my

neighborhood walks there, except for one elderly lady who doesn't drive and some foreign students. It's easy sidewalk all the way. We just don't *think* in pedestrian terms anymore.

[Siyahamba]

62. Sidewalks are an afterthought in my town

Some streets don't even have them. Those that do are unnavigatible in places where tree branches have grown over them, and in winter they aren't cleared of snow. It's unfortunate because going for a walk is a way people can get exercise for free, but I guess around here unless you can afford a gym membership, you're out of luck.

[DemBones DemBones]

97. High fructose corn syrup. Everyone should read up

on HFCS and avoid it as much as possible. Unless you read labels, you have no idea how many foods it's being added to.

[northzax]

20. well, there is another simple solution

instead of simply looking for high fructose corn syrup, every time you look at food, ask yourself, would my great grandmother recognize this as food? if the answer is 'no' then don't eat it (very often) would someone who just walked out of the Amazon jungle recognize this as food?

I try (although not always successfully, I confess) to only eat things that look like food. if you are balanced, you don't need supplements, fortified foods or anything of the like (of course, people with medical conditions or allergies do)

[badgerpup]

98. It's more cost-effective that way...

If you buy 'ingredients'...which GGMa would recognize as "food" and not insta-stuff your purchasing power goes a lot further.
Most of the ingredients need to be assembled before they become 'food' however...
and we've been sold on convenience.

Ingredients that require assembly aren't super-convenient...but they're better for us and less likely to have HFCS and other nasty-bad shit...:shrug:

[meegbear]

2. I grew up an obese male ...

I was ridiculed by both sexes, to my face, at least once a day. I was called a fat pig, lazy and stupid. The hardest part was that you were one of the people you "don't want to be seen with" and many of my elementary school friends abandoned me in junior high. One of my father's friends, an alcoholic, would rip into me asking me why I'm not wearing a bra and shit like that.

Oh yeah, did I mention I'm gay? That really made me feel like an unwelcome outsider; I never talked about it growing up with people, they had enough fodder already.

If you saw me now, you'd probably say, "you look good, you look like your maybe 10 pounds overweight". I've dropped most of it and built up, but I still have a stigma about my image and while it seems to be going with age (I'm 41), I may never get over the literal hatred people had for me, many who never met me nor know anything about me.

[seabeyond]

3. you wont avoid the hateful. people feed on it. most...

people in your situation is using food as a comfort, pain killer or stress reliever. there are more psychological reasons for your weight than any other issue, including genetics.

anyway, i have spent a lot of interesting time on this subject from so many different angles. it isnt simple, it isnt a small topic, it is not just about the over weight, it is about the underweight. it is a society that puts so much emphasis on the outside shells of who we are that is really just a container of who we are within.

this is your battle to do. healing only comes working with self. you will never get society to conform to what you need, acceptance.

take care of you. enjoy life even in overabundance.

[Stuckinthebush]

4. There is definitely a societally sanctioned bias against large people

That doesn't make it right, of course. We live in such a weight conscious society that it feeds the bias. We are told from an early age that skinny is good and fat is bad. True, there are many health risks associated with being overweight, but there are also those associated with being too thin.

Genetics play a major role in body type. I have terrible HDL cholesterol levels. My doc has worked with me to try to get the level up but she finally said, "Well, it looks like you have bad genes. We'll do what we can with medication and exercise." So I guess that advice works for you too...do your best with exercise and diet and live life to its fullest. Oh, and don't sweat the jackasses...they aren't worth the worry.

[sharp_stick]

5. 22.4% body fat isn't that fat

Sure it's in the "overweight" category but as far as health goes I don't think it's too bad. For a time I was up around 44% bf with a BMI of almost 37. My family isn't all that overweight, I gained it after a medical issue put a pretty stop to a lot of physical activity but not my appetite which had never been all that healthy. I have a fondness for beer and pasta in not so healthy quantities.

I've brought myself down to about 22% body fat with diet and exercise (medical issue is no longer that much of a factor) and I've noticed the disgusted looks have really died off. If I can get it down to 15 I'll be happy.

I never had that much trouble with romantic interest, but that is probably because I've always had a very good group of friends that kept my social skills up a bit. I noticed at the height of my obesity (I was 3 lousy BMI points from the "extremely obese" category and a couple of points of glucose from diabetes) people looked at me like I was a piece of shit. I got all kinds of comments from total strangers to avoid the doughnuts and push back from the dining room table. More than once this almost escalated into physical confrontation but most people seemed to be a little intimidated to actually back up the smartass comments. Hell, they knew I could never catch them, especially with the extra weight of the Louisville Slugger I meant to rearrange their joints with. ;-)

I lost the weight because of the diabetes numbers, I'm not old enough to have diabetes and I have a baby. Dying young didn't seem like a viable option anymore.

People that have never been overweight have no idea how difficult the weight loss is. My mouth waters in the evening when I see ads for Popeyes and Sam Adams.

Good luck to you.

[northzax]

6. 6'2" 250? that's fat?

unless you have some sort of strange distribution issues, this is not fat, it's barely overweight by current standards (I am 6'5" 250).

[JacksonWest]

53. 250 is obese at 74 inches. Sorry.

Most of the country is overweight. Including myself. It takes a lot of work to remain in good shape- especially as you get older.

Basically-I look at my waste as a sign of how good of shape I'm in-not my actual weight. I can get into size 32 jeans at 185 pounds, and I'm 5'10. I've attached a weight/jheight chart below.


http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm

Height
Small Frame
Medium Frame
Large Frame

5'2"
128-134
131-141
138-150

5'3"
130-136
133-143
140-153

5'4"
132-138
135-145
142-156

5'5"
134-140
137-148
144-160

5'6"
136-142
139-151
146-164

5'7"
138-145
142-154
149-168

5'8"
140-148
145-157
152-172

5'9"
142-151
148-160
155-176

5'10"
144-154
151-163
158-180

5'11"
146-157
154-166
161-184

6'0"
149-160
157-170
164-188

6'1"
152-164
160-174
168-192

6'2"
155-168
164-178
172-197

6'3"
158-172
167-182
176-202

6'4"
162-176
171-187
181-207

[northzax]

73. by one definition, I suppose

of course, if you use body fat percentages, I am well within the normal range (last week it was measured with calipers to be roughly 18%, the low end of 'normal', which goes to show that basic charts are useless, especially at the extremities of height. trust me, if I lost the 40 pounds your chart says I need to lose to not be 'overweight' I would be painfully thin, i would lose significant muscle mass, which would be unpleasant, ot say the least.

[JacksonWest]

80. The chart seems flawed, for sure.

[northzax]

81. charts like this make sense if everyone is built the exact same

I, for instance, have very broad shoulders and wider hips than the rest of my frame would imply, mass has to go somewhere.

[JacksonWest]

82. It has three frame types.

I'm sure it's flawed, but thin is thin, eh? We're just a big country. You don't see as many large people in other countries, imho. I'm sure people think they're thin at 200 plus pounds..but they're usually not. Ever sit in an old stadium? Seats are small, especially bench seats. We've just become a much larger country.

I blame you.

No, I don't. I blame the corporate media.

No, no I don't.

I blame people that eat too much and exercise too little.

Yeah, that's the one.

[distantearlywarning]

84. How about not blaming anybody?

You could just assume different people have different issues to overcome in their life and treat them like human beings regardless.

Maybe that's too much to ask...

[JacksonWest]

86. Well, that's living in denial.

Why are we the most overweight country in the world?

And I am overweight. I certainly want to be treated like a human being. And yes, if someone is overweight, it is generally their fault. Unless someone else is feeding them. We're responsible for our own persons-right? I didn't think that would cause anyone any offense to suggest that.

[Feron]

96. Weight charts are meaningless since they don't solely measure fat.

I'm 5'6" and 191 pounds, yet I'm at the low end of the healthy weight range for my body. There's probably about 10-15 pounds of fat on me, however I would look like a famine victim if I lost it. The last time my weight was in the 150s (the high end of the "healthy" range) was as a prepubescent skinny girl.

As my mom put it, it's about how you look and feel. When I was overweight, I didn't need a chart to tell me that when a mirror would suffice.

And society's view of thin isn't of a healthy body, it's of a body that looks one step away from the grave. You don't have to wear a single digit size in order to be healthy despite what the media may tell you.

Instead of obsessing about pant size and weight, it's better mentally and otherwise to cultivate a healthy lifestyle. I agree that personal responsiblity is important, but there is much more to size than what goes into a person's mouth.

[JackRiddler]

102. Sorry this is bullshit - everyone who eats food should read this article

I'm between 5'9 and 5'10 and medium frame, about 10-15 lbs overweight at 190. I've been thin before, and if I got down to the recommended upper limit of 160-163, I would be skeletal, the ribs would show. If I get into perfect shape and bulk up on the muscle, I'll look great and fit into the size 34 at 180-plus.

These charts are deceptive, I believe with intent. Note the site you have it from is selling products. It's part of a much larger phenomenon of capitalism and its marketing: making sure people are never happy where they are, even if they have perfectly healthy bodies, and so always looking for the next cure in the form of a pill or a diet plan.

The NY Times surprises sometimes, couple of days ago with an excellent analysis of not just the diet and nutrition culture, but the history and sociology of food in our time.

Everyone who eats food should read this!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?ei=5087%0A&em=&en=b2fa9367c0f570a4&ex=1170306000&pagewanted=print

January 28, 2007
Unhappy Meals
By MICHAEL POLLAN

Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

That, more or less, is the short answer to the supposedly incredibly complicated and confusing question of what we humans should eat in order to be maximally healthy. I hate to give away the game right here at the beginning of a long essay, and I confess that I’m tempted to complicate matters in the interest of keeping things going for a few thousand more words. I’ll try to resist but will go ahead and add a couple more details to flesh out the advice. Like: A little meat won’t kill you, though it’s better approached as a side dish than as a main. And you’re much better off eating whole fresh foods than processed food products. That’s what I mean by the recommendation to eat “food.” Once, food was all you could eat, but today there are lots of other edible foodlike substances in the supermarket. These novel products of food science often come in packages festooned with health claims, which brings me to a related rule of thumb: if you’re concerned about your health, you should probably avoid food products that make health claims. Why? Because a health claim on a food product is a good indication that it’s not really food, and food is what you want to eat.

(...)

Last winter came the news that a low-fat diet, long believed to protect against breast cancer, may do no such thing — this from the monumental, federally financed Women’s Health Initiative, which has also found no link between a low-fat diet and rates of coronary disease. The year before we learned that dietary fiber might not, as we had been confidently told, help prevent colon cancer. Just last fall two prestigious studies on omega-3 fats published at the same time presented us with strikingly different conclusions. While the Institute of Medicine stated that “it is uncertain how much these omega-3s contribute to improving health” (and they might do the opposite if you get them from mercury-contaminated fish), a Harvard study declared that simply by eating a couple of servings of fish each week (or by downing enough fish oil), you could cut your risk of dying from a heart attack by more than a third — a stunningly hopeful piece of news. It’s no wonder that omega-3 fatty acids are poised to become the oat bran of 2007, as food scientists micro-encapsulate fish oil and algae oil and blast them into such formerly all-terrestrial foods as bread and tortillas, milk and yogurt and cheese, all of which will soon, you can be sure, sprout fishy new health claims. (Remember the rule?)

(...)

The story of how the most basic questions about what to eat ever got so complicated reveals a great deal about the institutional imperatives of the food industry, nutritional science and — ahem — journalism, three parties that stand to gain much from widespread confusion surrounding what is, after all, the most elemental question an omnivore confronts. Humans deciding what to eat without expert help — something they have been doing with notable success since coming down out of the trees — is seriously unprofitable if you’re a food company, distinctly risky if you’re a nutritionist and just plain boring if you’re a newspaper editor or journalist. (Or, for that matter, an eater. Who wants to hear, yet again, “Eat more fruits and vegetables”?) And so, like a large gray fog, a great Conspiracy of Confusion has gathered around the simplest questions of nutrition — much to the advantage of everybody involved. Except perhaps the ostensible beneficiary of all this nutritional expertise and advice: us, and our health and happiness as eaters.

FROM FOODS TO NUTRIENTS

It was in the 1980s that food began disappearing from the American supermarket, gradually to be replaced by “nutrients,” which are not the same thing. Where once the familiar names of recognizable comestibles — things like eggs or breakfast cereal or cookies — claimed pride of place on the brightly colored packages crowding the aisles, now new terms like “fiber” and “cholesterol” and “saturated fat” rose to large-type prominence. More important than mere foods, the presence or absence of these invisible substances was now generally believed to confer health benefits on their eaters. Foods by comparison were coarse, old-fashioned and decidedly unscientific things — who could say what was in them, really? But nutrients — those chemical compounds and minerals in foods that nutritionists have deemed important to health — gleamed with the promise of scientific certainty; eat more of the right ones, fewer of the wrong, and you would live longer and avoid chronic diseases.

(...)

[YOY]

7. I take great knowledge that I could break some uppity skinny twigs I know over my leg

Being barrel-chested, I am going to look overweight no matter how much I actually weigh. If someone tries social ridicule with me I use (implied) physical intimidation. Last time somebody said something to me was in the Peace Corps. I don't like to imply physical intimidation with a woman (more like a girl in this case), but she got it and it shut her the f*** up.

and no I would not have gotten physical with her (or any other woman I have known).

[Bettie]

8. I'm a fat woman

And our society tells me I'm stupid, ugly, and a thing to be laughed at or pitied. People of my size are shown only from the butt to the shoulders because all we are can be sized up in the size of our butts and bellies.

To be anyone, you "must" conform to certain ideals and it isn't even all about weight, you're supposed to be young and thin until death and it is all due to money, the sad fact is that the more we buy into the myth that one must conform, the more money the weight loss industry, the "health and beauty" industry and others make from our misery.

First lets get the basics out of the way....I exercise aerobically five days a week (though, right now, I'm recovering from an ice related knee injury). I live in a small town, so I exercise at home, before my two small children get up, then I chase them around all day.

I eat healthy foods and watch my portions (most of the time, I eat like most other people, usually the right amounts, sometimes too much, sometimes not enough). I also eat not-so-healthy foods, though I keep that to a minimum. I do drink way too much coffee, but that's a whole other issue.

I am healthy with low blood pressure, cholesterol in the right ranges, good blood sugar, and from a functional aspect, my body does what I need it to.

I could/should probably exercise more, I could/should probably watch my eating 100% of the time.

The fact is that I am fat. I look like my grandfather's sisters, all of whom were/are round and curvy and downright fat.

I am larger than I might have been because from the age of 14 until about 25, I dieted constantly. I lost and regained hundreds of pounds, growing larger with each misguided attempt to meet a societal expectation that I realize now, I literally CAN'T achieve. I'm never going to be a size 0 or even a 6. I've been through shame based programs (Weight Watchers), "medical" programs, and lots of other "magazine" diets.

At about the age of 25, I had an awakening. I realized that I was trying to live my life in accordance with ideals of beauty that did not and would not ever include me. I read 'When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies' and it changed my life. Over the next few years, my weight stabilized and my health improved beyond its already robust status.

Still, when I go to the mall, teenagers make "mooing" noises at me, people are constantly giving me diet advice with the most common now being the gastric bypass talks, and still, I know that I am an intelligent and valuable person. My husband adores me, fat or not fat (and he's had me both ways, though when I used to diet, I got a little bit mean).

Sea Wolf, I feel for you, but my advice would be to work on those social skills and learn to love your body for what it does for you.

[lilymidnite]

36. Good For You

You have a wonderful sense of self. Congratulations.

I believe that a fat person in this society is treated as the lowest of the low--invisible. And, at the same time, fat people are focused targets for people's outward expression of self-loathing. I know, I lived that way for 49 years. And I, unlike you and your courageous acceptance of yourself, *gave up* and underwent gastric bypass 20 months ago.

This was a decision that I did not take lightly and I do not regret it. But, on the other hand, it was an admission that I had failed in surviving life as the target of this culture's hate. And that is exactly what my life felt like every day. I was too cowardly to off myself and utterly unable to keep off the 300-some pounds that I'd lost and regained over the course of my life.

If someone thinks that obesity is simply a matter of 'stop eating so much', that person needs to sit down with a calculator. Multiply 100 excess calories (1 Oreo cookie!!) by 365 days. That's 10 pounds gained in 1 year.

If someone thinks that an obese person has no knowledge of nutrition, that person should think again. I believe that a majority of fat people have more knowledge of nutrition and calories than the average thin person.

[JacksonWest]

87. Here's what being overweight is going to get you:

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/

Hypertension
Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis
Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, and colon)

I'm sorry people are cruel. I'm not. Don't let a few assholes in a mall bother you. Remember, being overweight will shorten your life. Significantly.

Never, never, never give up. Don't do it for anyone but you. And your children.

It's a struggle, a life long struggle. I know. I've lost a lot of weight, gained it back, and I've lost it again and kept most of it off. You will feel better. You will live longer. Why accept something that is detrimental to your health, and that you control?

[Lerkfish]

9. *raises hand* obese male here.

I'm 6'4" and slightly over 300 lbs.
I've tried losing weight with some degree of success in the past, but my current diabetic medication makes that more difficult. I find it painfully ironic that medication for a condition brought on by obesity has a side effect of increased weight. d'oh!

at any rate, I'm not blaming anyone else for my situation. I do blame people for their reactions to me.
Somehow, I appear lazy and worthless to people who don't know me. A skinny person can be lazy and worthless, but you'd never perceive them that way.
I am, in fact, a very hard and dependable worker and always excell at things I attempt in my chosen profession. Unfortunately, I suppose, much of my job is sedentary and in front of a computer. But I work long hours, sometimes into the early morning to take care of my family.

anyways, my wife loves me and my son loves me, and I'm worthwhile, in spite of society's viewpoint.

[theboss]

10. I don't believe a word in your thread

6'2, 250 lbs with 22 percent body weight is in the somewhat overweight range. You would probably look fantastic at 225 pounds.

Unless you live in LA or spend an inordiante amount of time at the beach, people are hardly looking at you disgustingly. Again, unless you live in LA or like Miami, women are not turning away from you because you are obese. My best friend to this day was 6'3, 260 in high school and had to beat them off with a stick.

Here are my thoughts:

1. You have weird body issues that have to do with your perception of yourself rather than yourself.
2. If you are struggling with the ladies, it is probably because you are either not very good looking or have a personality issue.
3. I have no idea where this fat=stupid logic came from. Anyone who ever needed an IT tech at 5:45 on a workday knows that fat=computer savvy.
4. If your dinner conists of a pound of red meat and cookies, you may want to re-evaluate things.

[BreweryYardRat]

23. I live in Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida. Just as shallow as Miami.

#2: No shit, buddy. ;) But being fat makes it a lot worse.
#4: It's a post-workout meal. I was busting my butt at the gym beforehand. I don't eat like that regularly.

[JacksonWest]

55. Hey Seawolf- Confidence is the key.

It really doesn't matter what you look like. It's what you feel like. Find a program that makes you feel good(diet and exercise). Remember, it takes about six weeks to form a habit- but do that. Think of food as fuel, and not food. Keep your calories at 2000 per day. Eat as much lean protein as you can-tuna steaks, black beans, chicken breast, egg beaters. All are low fat, low calorie, and high protein. You're a big dude-you're going ot get hungry. But remember-full always feels the same, no matter what you eat.

Set a goal for yourself that only you can control. Like-I am only going to eat 2000 calories today. Meet that goal. Set another one. Don't make your goal to lose ten pounds by (whenever). You can't really control that. Just create a program, and stick to it. Work with your doctor, or consult a nutritionist(well worth one appointment-not as expensive as it sounds).

Anyway, don't let your size get you down. You're probably your own worse critic. Lose weight ot be healthy so you can live a long life. And be happy doing so.

[MindPilot]

30. Never pass up the opportunity to stereotype IT people.

Are you going to tell us about the computer geek who spends Saturday night hacking code because he hasn't the chance of an ice cube in hell of getting laid?
What's next? Automotive techs are stupid grease monkeys? Construction workers are all misogynist pigs?

[seleff]

12. Are we a nation suffering from obesity or eating disorders or both?

I have no answers, just the pain of being the father of an 18 y.o. (hopefully recovering) anorexic daughter. Does my being 5'11" and 215 lbs (I was 150 lbs at 18 y.o., now just over 50 y.o.) feed into her worry of becoming fat if she didn't restrict some or occasionally purge? I still don't know after 2 yrs of this. Yes there is so much that causes or predisposes to eating disorders besides society's bombardment of mixed messages, but she still keeps this fear of growing up to become fat in the back of her mind.

The good news is that she is currently engaged in life (again). The bad news is that if she starts (or continues) to lose weight again we could be facing another round of hospitalizations. Eating in itself is an emotionally charged event in her day, and she has to face it as a traumatic event 3-5 times every day. This disease really sucks. I hope none of you have the misfortune of having a loved one who is suffering from it. If you do, my heart goes out to you to have the strength to persevere and not lose hope.

Sorry for the rant...I don't know what this has to do with your post except to share the pain of the flip side.

[RC Quake]

101. Sorry to hear about your daughter.

I can sympathize, speaking as a 41 year-old that suffered for 20 some years from bulimia and anorexia intermittently. The physical damage I did to my body is far beyond what obesity would have done. But, society (and a love interest) told me that skinny was the only way to be. Kidneys, liver, reproductive organs, stomach, intestines, the entire digestive system for that matter. 3 years ago was my first confession of having the eating disorders. If someone would have known years ago, I wouldn’t be in the shape I’m in now. Trust me, your daughter needs you there for her. She may not say it. She may fight it. All this means is that she is in denial. I would have given anything for my parents support. I don’t blame them…they never knew. You know. Do whatever you can to help her before it’s too late.

I am now 5’8” and am guessing about 130 lbs. I still can’t step on a scale, because visually seeing that number will send me back into the zone again. As long as my clothing fits and I don’t have to go up another size, I’m fine. The numbers are the trigger I think.

Good luck to you and your daughter. My prayers are with you.

[rox63]

13. Women have it tough as well

Instead of fat, I refer to myself and my hefty compadres as "people of substance". ;)

I've been a heavy gal most of my life. (I'm 43) I'm currently on a weight-loss plan, and this is the first time I've had any significant success. I've lost 60+ pounds, and I have another 50+ pounds to go. I've managed to do this in a little more than 6 months. But that's another story in itself.

My family is full of round people. Both my parents and my only sibling are/were heavy. They also all developed type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure as they reached middle-age. My dad died of a stroke, due in part to his high bp. My mom has lost her eyesight because of the diabetes. The prospects for my future health didn't look good, based on my genes and my weight.

Before I was able to get to a place emotionally & psychologically where I could lose the weight, I spent several years purposely not dieting at all. I decided to just accept myself the way I was. All of my prior attempts to lose weight had been started because of my own feelings of self-loathing, and the rejection of heavy people by our society. It turned out that for me, that's a lousy way go about it. All those previous attempts failed, becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy of my own unworthiness. So I got off the diet merry-go-round, and stayed off for nearly a decade.

Then last summer, after all those years of acknowledging my self-worth in spite of my weight, I started worrying about my health, and my prospects of living a long, healthy life. It didn't look encouraging. I was sick and tired of feeling sick and tired all the time. My joints hurt, my back was all messed up, and I felt lousy most of the time. And because I had put in all that time shoring up my self-worth, I finally felt worthy of saving my own life. Something just clicked, and I was able to get on and stick to a food plan that works for me. And here I am, 6 months later, still losing, and feeling much better, both physically and emotionally.

Of course, during those years sans dieting, there was lots of therapy and anti-depressant medication, to treat the reasons behind my lifelong attempt to hide inside the fat. But despite the professional help, it was me that did the work, and got to where I am now.

I also hate exercise, so I can commiserate with you on that. I know I'll have to start exercising eventually, or the weight-loss will stall out. Besides, toned muscles are a lot more attractive than the loose flab that results from losing a lot of weight.

Good luck with whatever path you follow. It's not easy being large, and it's very difficult to change life-long habits.

[MindPilot]

14. It goes both ways -- I'm skinny

Growing up was hell. All the taunts from other kids and the teachers. People won't dare say anything to some fatty but it's perfectly OK to ridicule "Bony". Every time I turned around people--especially older relatives--were imploring, nay demanding, that I eat more. "Gotta put some meat on those bones..." School nurse would ask if I got enough to eat at home. I'm surprised actually that my parents never got a visit from social services.

All my life I try to buy clothes that fit. Can't do it, all my jeans are baggy and dress clothes are every baggier "Relaxed Cut" my bony ass!!

From my perspective the world caters to the fat. There's alway the Big & Tall shop, but for many years I was adult male who actually had to look for clothes that fit in the boy's section.

It doesn't bother me anymore...I'm over 50 now and I can finally fill out a pair of jeans.

ETA: Many moons ago I managed to get stuck in drug treatment for weed. They put me on a high-whatever diet that included an extra meal at bedtime. Like I could really eat that that much food. But those medical professionals were convinced that my thinness was abnormal therefore I must've been doing speed.

[Pithlet]

38. It does, but I think it's way worse for kids if they're fat.

I'm skinny as an adult, and I was very skinny growing up, and got teased for it. I even remember wearing two pairs of pants at the same time in an attempt to look "normal". I was taller than average, too, on top of that. AND I wore glasses. With thick lenses. High school was a lot of fun for me. I still think my friends who were fat had it much worse overall. The crap they got seemed to be much more hateful in nature, and more unrelenting. The teasing directed at skinny kids tends to be the typical "you're different" crap. With girls, I think there's an element of jealousy. Whereas fat kids of both sex get it because of society's hateful attitudes towards fat people. Most kids are targeted for some aspect of their appearance. In my experience, being fat was the worst sin. I even see it as an adult, even here on DU. No thread about fat people escapes the "They bring it on themselves so they deserve it" attitude. The preachy personal responsibility crowd usually love a good fat thread to get it out of their system. If you haven't seen it in this thread yet, wait awhile. It will show up eventually.

[lizerdbits]

15. I have a female friend about 250

She's probably more energetic than I am and I'm about 165, very nice, very smart. She deals with that a lot of course. Same things you describe, she must be lazy, stupid, etc. She says her weight is due to lack of finances- cheap food is highly processed and comes in a box. (she's supporting 2 kids with 2 jobs while husband is in jail). Her job is customer service which she's great at because she's so friendly and outgoing. She's starting to look for work and won't even apply for front desk type jobs because she's sure she won't get them because of her size.

I've only had to deal with it with doctors. High testosterone levels make losing weight really hard but if I do they say, all my other hormone issues will magically vanish. I state what I eat- low fat yogurt, lean meat, whole grains, salads and I won't deny that I sometimes eat chocolate (dark 90% of the time)or go out to eat once or twice a month. I also state my exercise to them but I am never believed. I've had numerous doctors literally laugh in my face. Both my parents have extremely large siblings so I guess this is the best I can do, but my parents are in better shape. I finally found a doctor who said since my blood fat levels were great and I eat well and exercise I shouldn't really be concerned (I'm 5'6", 165 but people think I weigh about 150 due to weight lifting). But I've had several relationships where the guy assumed I sit around and eat all the time because I'm not thin, always those bottomless pit stomach guys who never gain weight. What did you ask me out for asshole, I'm just sitting around eating until some guy shows up and suddenly I'll get skinny? Dicks.

[JacksonWest]

85. Did you ever have your thyroid checked?

That can be an issue if you truly can't lose weight despite diet and exercise.

[lizerdbits]

88. Actually I have

I think just TSH was tested and it was normal. I was given cytomel anyway because I had gained quite a bit of weight on pamelor (antidepressant) which never came off after stopping it, although some of my hormone issues diminished. Didn't help and was probably pointless since I didn't seem to have a problem based on blood work. I'm not a thyroid hormone expert but I think there's at least T3 and T4 so TSH is often only part of some thyroid panels? I suppose there could be another problem but the right tests weren't done. The last time it was tested was probably about 5 years ago and nothing's really worse so I guess I'm fine.

[JacksonWest]

90. My mom got on some thyroid medication...it got her high.

She really didn't need to lose weight. What a gal.


Anyway, best of luck.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

114. but how do you feel? Blood tests are not the whole story.

Doctors test for TSH, T3 And T4. I don't quite understand it.

TSH is what your pituitary puts out to kick start your thyroid. If your TSH is high it's qite possible you could be hypothyroid.

Your body needs T3 and T4. Armour Thyroid is the only brand that provides T3 and T4 BOTH. It's also natural, a by-product from animals (the name Armour is a clue). It's natural, more bioactive, and CHEAP, which is why doctors hate it. They've been brainwashed by the drug companies to prescribe synthroid and cytomel.

How do you feel? is more important than what the blood tests show. I take twice the normal dose of Armour Thyroid and I can still put in a 12-hour sleep period without any trouble. Many infertile women have a subclinical low thyroid problem.

I have read that some doctor estimated that one out of five women in America had a thyroid problem. Some men have it too.

I have argued with a number of board certified endocrinologists about what kind of thyroid to take and how much. I had one board certified guy tell me that "Armour Thyroid is not standardized in the dosage. You don't know how much you're gonna get in any particular pill." (this is part of the drug company propaganda).

My answer to that was "Well, I read the label and it says United States Pharmacopoeia, Biologically Assayed". He shut up.

If you're tired, you don't feel like arguing with doctors and may be easy to push around. Armour Thyroid is still the best and the most bioactive. You might have to keep increasing your dosage. If you get heart palpitations, lower the dosage. It's not that difficult.

Some stupid doctor took me off of thyroid for about five years, and I almost died. I got to the point where I couldn't get out of bed without sheer willpower, so I went to a couple of doctors and finally found one that knew what he was talking about. He started me on one grain (sixty milligrams) of Armour and gradually we kept raising the dosage, all the way to eight grains. Nobody takes eight grains. A normal person would have been bouncing off the walls. I felt OK. So he said "How much do you need to take to feel like you have some energy?" and I said four grains.

Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor, just a patient that's been through hell. I've taken thyroid for about 40 years now.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. Sounds like we have very similar bodies.

Perhaps the only differences are our frames (by your comments on being stronger than you look), and as such, I weigh a little more than you at the same height. Most doctor's I've been to say that I could lose a little weight, but they also say "who couldn't?" And I agree - I do need to lose weight, but I could give a shit less about it being for other people.

I go to the gym three times a week, but no matter how little I eat (and I don't eat much), I still don't really lose weight. I usually fluctuate around 30 pounds. But, it's been this way since I was very small. I remember being 10 and trying to lose weight so I could play pop-warner football with kids 2-3 years older than me.

Still, I think you need to focus a lot more on your social skills than you do focusing on what other people may or may not be saying. I wasn't popular with women until I changed my attitude. I was always too nice, and although I was hardly a doormat. I took things far too seriously.

But ultimately, it was all about confidence. I got a couple of relationships under my belt, and then I had a lot more confidence when approaching other women. And as my confidence grew, the ease with which I found new girlfriends continued to grow as well. Next year, I'll be marrying an amazing and beautiful woman.

If you're anything like I was, you're probably asking yourself, "Okay, so how do I get those first few relationships?" Well, college helps, but if that doesn't work, try internet dating, like with match.com. Knowing that you're meeting people that are okay with how you look and knowing that everyone's intentions are on the same page is a huge help and makes life a lot easier. Just go on one date or two with a girl until you are sure that you absolutely want to see them more. Instead of feeling like you need to please them, realize they also need to please YOU. Don't settle and don't be desperate, or you'll get treated like shit, and that won't help your confidence at all.

I hope this helps, because quite frankly, if my experiences can help someone avoid some of the crap I've been through, it'll all be worthwhile.

[raccoon]

17. Reading these posts, I am amazed at the number of times people

mention total strangers who make snarky remarks.

Though I shouldn't be. There are a lot of rude assholes out there.

[grace0418]

46. It seems that being fat is the one thing left that is okay to attack.

Of course there are assholes that will say hateful things to minorities, gays, the handicapped, etc. in public and not give a damn. But most people know that's wrong and don't do it (even if they *think* hateful things about them). But fat people are fair game. I don't know why.

[treestar]

94. I think you're right - some people have to be hateful to somebody

If they can't hate someone for being another race because it has become socially unacceptable, they'll think of something else.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. I used to be quite overweight as a kid

I got active and ate less, and what I ate was healthier.

There is not magic formula to loosing weight. You simply must burn more calories than you consume.

But don't do it to get a girl or to make people like you. Do it becasue you will likely live a longer, healthier life.

[sshan2525]

19. As long as you're healthy...

...Don't worry about it. I'm 6 foot and weigh nearly 300 lbs. I'm older and maybe it's different, but I know several women who think that I'm attractive. In the end, personality always wins out over looks.

[BreweryYardRat]

24. I think age has a lot to do with it.

People my age are shallow, for the most part.

[badgerpup]

21. Way too much of a good thing here, too.

Part of it is genetic, part bad habits, and I did the dieting thing in my 20s...the ones that cause you to lose weight, then rebound with interest.

Found out later that the meds I was taking to deal with bi-polar disorder had an 'unfortunate side effect' as well.
I'm tall- 5'10", and was active before my car accident, and my view of myself was always as a very strong person, so I carry it pretty well, but there's no disguising it.
When I see a picture of myself...usually taken against my wishes- I want to leave the room.

I don't feel that way about other big/large/fat people though...
in fact I'll look at a chubby guy before I'll look at Mr. Hardbody, and large women don't particularly trip my "ewwww" meter either.
My XSO was over 300lbs, and I thought he was quite an attractive guy and told him so constantly.

It's all in how you see yourself I guess. I've 'given up' for the moment on the weight control...have other issues at the moment that would just make trying to lose weight a waste of time, energy and sanity. But I'll probably get up and try to fight the long defeat again eventually.

[mntleo2]

22. Oh Hon ...

...I have seen a turnaround in the last few years that makes life a tiny bit easier for large people, but it is not easy, I know. As someone whose best friend, my sister, born big into a small town and who suffered a type of malign abuse all around her that I hated as I watched it, I can tell you, I know it is not easy. Still there are good things about being big as you state because people think big people are dangerous when they are mad, and this will keep people at bay when you need it and is a good thing (even tho as you say they could outrun you in a minute, this does not seem to occur to them). You will also find that having big people as friends is a comfort because you and they understand the types of discrimination that others have endured, including racial prejudice, sexism and the like ~ and believe me, this will be an attraction for many women.

As for women, I was considered beautiful when I was young, my husband was a big person and it never affected our sex life and I loved him to pieces. We are still friends but divorced, and tho he is over 60 and obese, he never has to worry about female companionship ~ and this often from beautiful intelligent women in their 20's! Why? I think it's because at first he is considered a "teddy bear" and then they fall in love with his funny wit and his love of women. One secret about women: I think many of us look for a little boy inside who becomes a best friend, who is not afraid to become a sort of "girlfriend" yet who is also a lover. Often big men have this quality because they have undergone a great deal of cruelty when they were young, so you may find this an asset in a few years that puzzles your handsome friends as women sit down by you instead of them.

I hope this helps Hon, you have a long life ahead of you and you will find that there are lots of women who are not shallow and only look at the outside who look for men with a heart and they will find you beautiful.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Kali]

57. Nice

Good observations and advice.

[azmouse]

25. I'm an overweight woman.

There, I've said it. I'm overweight. And SO WHAT!

I like myself. I'm kind. I like helping people. I'm generous. And I think I'm pretty! :)

I'll never be the thin type. Size 6?! Forget it. I'm 5'5" and once weighed 130 and still wore a size 12. I come from a family of stocky people. My weight has crept up some but I watch what I eat (but not obsessively) and I exercise. I have no health problems and I feel good.

But most of all I have confidence. I dress well, fix my hair and wear makeup. And believe me, I have no trouble attracting the attention of males... not that it matters to anything but my ego because I'm happily married.

I refuse, absolutely refuse, to stop living because I don't meet the 'ideal' that society expects. For God's sake, look around you! How many people look ANYTHING like what you see on tv or in the movies?!

Get busy living your life your own way and stop worrying what others think. Someone who is rude enough to insult you about your appearance isn't someone you would want as a friend.

You only get one shot at life. Don't get to the end of it and wish you had done something different.
NOW is the only time you really have.

[Tyo]

26. Just an observation

When I cross the border into Canada I can't help but notice that people up there seem to be on the whole thinner than people down here. Not underfed by any means, but certainly not obese. Same thing in Europe. Must be something in American air that encourages weight gain. I'm certainly not immune to it.

[BreweryYardRat]

29. Could be all the crap in our food.

Probably is, actually.

[Tyo]

34. Ya think?

Then there is the fact that portions in our restaurants are pretty much double what you might find elsewhere. And our love of "buffets". And the fact that we design our cities and suburbs to discourage walking. Might add "Big Gulps", and "Super Sizing" and 400 calorie lattes.

My partner and I went on a cruise last year and in the dining room they provided special armless chairs for people who were too big to fit between the arms of the regular chairs.

I don't understand our obsession with vast portions and sizes but I get sucked into it like anyone else.

[bleedingheart]

35. I had a friend who was from South Africa and who had lived in Europe

and he was absolutely shocked by how much food was served in US restaurants.

He could not understand why people needed so much food on their plates and he also hated the idea that he had to tip...but that was a different story.

[Patiod]

47. My S.O. ordered a large soda yesterday at Wendy's

We don't go through fast food very often.

A "large" was about half a gallon - he was horrified. I told him that to get a normal sized soda, order a "child's" soda, and to get a large, order a "small".

[bumblebee1]

100. The large portions make people feel they get their money's worth.

Last Saturday, (1/20) my husband, brother-in-law and I went to Romano's Macaroni Grill to celebrate my husband's birthday. I thoroughly enjoyed the food. (The $25 gift card from my nephew was also a great help.) My husband told me he wasn't too impressed because the portions are too small. I told him that they were normal portions. That's when he told me the larger portions make folks feel they get their money's worth.

[Tyo]

107. All you've got to do is look in the mirror.

That'll tell you whether you've been getting your money's worth or maybe a little more :-)

[no_hypocrisy]

27. I deplore the prejudice against people deemed to be overweight

and that's a subjective standard to begin with. I have worked for a long period of time with women who have been shunned, ignored, persecuted, mocked, etc. due to their physical appearance. If anyone had taken the time to get to know them, s/he or they would have discovered funny, witty, clever, interesting women who refuse to let others define who they are. I consider these women to be some of the finest and memorable personalities have had the pleasure to have known and depended upon. It's easy to say "Don't judge a book by its cover". Until you are actually in a relationship with someone, you really don't know them.

[AlCzervik]

41. it seems making fun of the obese is the last thing that is still ok.

which it's not of course but you see people do it all the time. I struggled my entire life with weight and self esteem issues and about a year and half ago i decided i needed to get healthy or at least healthier, my blood sugar was way up, borderline diabetic, diabetes runs rampant in my family in the thin folks and the heavier ones. Anyhow i've lost about 80 pounds and am now considered "Normally weighted" whatever that really means and it amazes me how people treat me now as compared to 80 pounds ago.

Anyhow thats been my experience and making fun of anybody for their size is wrong, it petty and hurtful.

[RedCappedBandit]

28. I'll just speak my mind..

You know, I used to be a little chubby. Never too overweight, but not happy with the way I looked either (who is?)

I lost 30 pounds over the course of my senior year in high school. Why? I started going outside with my friends, and simply doing stuff. I didn't "excersize" at the time.. but I did walk home from school every day, and just participated in random, fun physical activities. If you hate cardio excersize, you're probably going to be a little overweight considering how much you eat.
No offense, but a bowl of oatmeal, slim fast, AND whey protein all in one meal doesn't sound too healthy to me. I am under the impression that slim fast by itself is meant to replace a meal.
You know what though? If people can be happy not having the perfect body, thats up to them. I started working out and excersizing constantly once I realized I could actually lose weight, and i've been happier.. but everybody is different.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with fat people. Although honestly, sometimes I do catch myself feeling a little irritated when somebody who I KNOW is uncomfortable with their weight is seen eating so many unhealthy things (and I feel guilty about it.. because I also eat junkfood time to time.. just trying to be honest)

On edit.. I just want to make it clear that I always try my best not to judge people I don't know. The above comment was in regards to friends of mine, who may have confided in me their desire to lose weight.

[seabeyond]

32. this is the thing. dont want exercise, park out in boondocks and walk fast

move the body, do things. make food not important. using it as a crutch, emotional appeaser, stress realeaser or to allow protection (a good layer of fat keeps interaction with others down) regardless of what we tell ourselves. i use to diet. up and down. i use to feel guilt with food, splurge. when i stopped the battle a couple decades ago and accepted myself.... didnt look at all of life thru my body image, and started living,.... moderation came into play. i ate, i played, i laughed, and i became healthy. i eat slow. i eat a little thru the day. i eat healthy and i eat not healthy and dont feel guilty. and i am getting old and i still sit at a good weight. no more battle. threw out scale years ago. refuse the word diet. and exercise, simply movement.

[RedCappedBandit]

33. You're absolutely right

This is, I think, what helped me the most. Eating slowly, and throughout the day (rather than big meals) and just remaining active. It really is good advice, and anybody wishing to be a more healthy weight should follow.

[catabryna]

31. Well, add 2 inches of height...

about 100 lbs. and age around 20 years and you would compare with my husband, one of the best guys who ever walked this planet. He was this way when we met, when we married, when bought our first home, and when we adopted our little boy. Unfortunately, he was also this large when he passed away, but... not from the usual suspects. By every measure, except weight, he was as healthy as he could be. From his heart, to his cholesterol, to his low blood pressure. He died from complications of Hodgkin's Disease a couple of years ago. He was not an overeater and he did lots of walking but, no matter how hard he tried, the weight would not come off. He didn't even lose weight during his two year battle with cancer which included chemo, radiation, a stem cell transplant, more chemo, etc. I think that for some, there is a propensity to be on the larger side, and I know that heredity plays a huge part. There had to be some internal mechanism that made it exceptionally difficult for him to lose the weight.

I'll be honest. When I was your age, I would never have never given my husband a second glance. I was young, vain and stupid. I married a man who was 5 foot 9 and 160 lbs. He was good looking and had an athletic build. He also turned out to be the biggest ASSHOLE I've ever come into contact with. With age comes extra wisdom and the realization that it's the inside that truly matters, not what a person looks like on the outside.

As for intelligence, my man had an IQ of 168 and was a member of MENSA. He was the smartest person I've ever met in my life and it was really a mental exercise on my part to keep up with him. He was also my gentle giant; I've never met a more kind man in my life and he was a great father and husband. That's why I married him. You would be shocked at some of the comments made by my husband's co-workers, most of which had to do with the difference in our sizes. I'm by no means petite, and admittedly 20 lbs. overweight, but people were shocked, shocked I tell you, that someone my size would ever want to be with a guy that big. That was, until they met him.

And, for all those women who only looked at my husband from the outside, THANK YOU! He was never meant to be yours anyway! I'd take this man as a husband and a father for my child over some buffed and polished guy any day!



Take heart. Someone will find your inner qualities to be of more importance than what they see on the outside. Unfortunately, it might take a little longer because younger women don't always make the wisest choices in their early relationships; I know I didn't.

[Beausoir]

40. What a wonderful pic! I am so sorry for your loss.

He sounds like he was a wonderful man.

Your post was beautiful!

[catabryna]

113. He was GREAT!

Thank you. I'm passionate about the issue of obesity and society's perceptions of the obese. There are a number of reasons for my fervor, but suffice it to say that they all boil down to the very same misperceptions that the OP alluded to.

[AlCzervik]

43. i'm so sorry.

:hug:

[catabryna]

109. Thank you.

I still miss him and always will, but I have always been able to smile when I speak (write) of him. That is the special gift that he left with me; he could always make me smile. :)

[Kali]

61. So sorry for your loss - that was a beautiful post.

And what a wonderful picture.

[catabryna]

108. Thank you.

It's my favorite picture of my boys. :)

[wicket]

64. I am so sorry

I think I remember when it happened (or atleast, I recognize that photo). I am so sorry for everything you have had to go through :hug:

[catabryna]

110. During the stem cell debate...

I posted our story here on DU about a year and a half ago and attached this picture. It is also posted it on StemPAC, so it's made the rounds! Can't help myself... I want to share our story because I hope in some way that it might be of help to someone else. :hug: Thank you.

[dysfunctional press]

39. try this- cut ALL of the starch from your diet.

I'm roughly the same size as you- 6'2", but i'm 46...my weight topped out a few years back at 260lbs.

i have a medical condition called "ankylosing spondylitis"- a slow and very painful fusion of the spine that has rendered me totally and permanently disabled. unfortunately it was not properly diagnosed until my late 30's, and i wasn't prepared for it, financially speaking. but i digress...

while researching the condition, i came across info from a british researcher that showed that dietary starch intake was a contributing factor for those that carried a particular gene and developed the condition. and a starch-free diet seemed to lessen the impact of the condition on those affected.

basically- my body is allergic to starch.
and- starch is not a natural part of the human diet in the first place

when i cut out ALL starches, i went from 260 to 215 over the course of a summer...i went back up to 225, and that's where i've been for the past several years.

it really isn't easy to do- cutting out ALL starches- but for me it was/is a medical nessecity.

but- it's safe for just about anyone, without any adverse effects on your mind or body...as i pointed out, starch is NOT a natural part of the diet that the human body has evolved to consume- it only became part of our diet after the dawn of agriculture.

check the web for info on a "caveman diet" as it's often referred to.

btw- when i was 18, i was already 6'2", but i weighed around 190- so yeah, 250 is pretty heavy, especially at that age.

[scrinmaster]

42. I'm 19, 6'2", and about 245 lbs.

But I started getting my lazy ass to the gym, and I've lost a couple pounds so far.

Just make sure you don't drink any soda, and give up fast food.

[TZ]

44. I understand..

try having a chronic condition that makes you extremely tired with just minimal exertion. I used to at least exercise but just don't have the energy for more than work and other routine things.
I am about 40-50 lbs overweight and I can't help but think thats my problem with men a lot. I have never had a relationship that lasted more than 4 months. Kinda resigned to being single the rest of my life. I have no desire to date at all after some of the crap I have been through. There is a reason why I prefer my cats to people.

[Time for change]

45. Thank you for sharing this seawolf

I don't see what anyone would want to to this with hateful remarks.

It is absolutely true that there is a big genetic component to obesity -- and that is one thing that probably most of our society has little understanding of. Even when I went to medical school they essentially taught us that there is NO genetic component to it, but I found out later through researching the issue during my residency that there most definitely is. In fact, it's more related to genetics than it is to what you eat.

But that doesn't mean that you can't do something about it. Exercise is especially important in combatting the genetic aspect of it. The exercise doesn't have to be vigorously aerobic, as even doing a fair amount of walking can be quite helpful. Some people have found that radically low carbohydrate diets that allow you to eat as much calories as you want, as long as carbohydrates are radically restricted, have also worked for many people. But you have to be careful that you get adequate nutrition on those diets.

[EstimatedProphet]

48. I have you beat

6', 350 lbs.

I intend to lose weight, but I haven't started exercizing yet. Part of the problem I have is that I've got too many joint injuries (rt. knee has slipped out of place probably 1,000 times. This is not an exaggeration) which really gets in the way of getting anything done.

The one thing to remember IMO - what the fuck difference does it make to someone else what you weigh? If peple give you nasty looks, return them. If they call you fat, call them stupid. What difference should it make to anyone else?

[Katherine Brengle]

49. From the perspective of a personal trainer -------

I want to start by saying that I agree with you on a lot of things - I think the social obsession we have with weight and looks is becoming psychologically damaging, primarily to women, but really to society as a whole. I also think it is more than a little disturbing that in 2007 it is still considered okay to judge a person's entire life if they are fat - but it is not considered okay to do so for any other physical reason.

That said, I think the main problem is that Americans don't want to take the time to seek out good information on fitness and nutrition. To be fair, the deck is stacked against them - there is more bad information than good available out there, and without a solid knowledge base it is often impossible to tell one from the other. Also, the ideals handed out that we should supposedly strive for are, in most cases, unrealistic.

So, the first step becomes education. Americans need to know what good food is, how much they are supposed to be eating, and how much and what type of exercise is most beneficial. In order to find this information, one must swim against the current - it's not easy.

The second step is making it happen. Once you are armed with the right information, put it into action. This is usually where the excuses come in. "I'm genetically predisposed to being overweight..." "I can eat healthy for a few days but then I fall off the wagon..." "I don't have time to exercise/cook the right food/etc..."

Here's a little of that elusive info:

1) Genetics plays only about a 10% role when it comes to a person's weight/bodyfat level. The other 90%? 70% diet, 20% exercise. Genetics can, therefore, be overcome with good habits.

2) Almost everyone has time to exercise and cook food. Most Americans watch at least a couple of hours of television in the evening - this is not a necessary activity - either use this time to go to the gym or buy a dang treadmill and park it in front of the tv. MAKE time. Same goes for cooking - cook a load of chicken on the weekend and package it in single portions in the freezer - defrost and heat up, takes no time at all. 1 hour on a Saturday while sitting in front of that tv.

3) Healthy bodyfat levels for men = roughly 10-20% -- that's a big range, and with a little effort any man without a serious metabolic disorder can achieve this.

4) Healthy bodyfat levels for women = roughly 18-34% -- huuuuge range for women. Women technically require slightly higher bodyfat stores, however some women can be perfectly healthy with bf levels as low as about 16% year round. It is not hard for a woman to get her bodyfat within the healthy range - it just takes a little bit of consistent effort.

5) Becoming and staying fit and healthy is a lifestyle choice - it isn't going to be accomplished by doing 4 months of Weight Watchers and then going back to old habits. It's not easy to change your lifestyle, but it is well worth it.

Some of the smartest people I have ever known have been overweight - like I said I do think the main part of the problem is ignorance, but that same ignorance is just as likely to be found in a thin person in this country - some still get lucky even doing the wrong things.

Off to read the rest of the posts...

[grace0418]

51. Great post. My husband was diagnosed with type-2 diabetes last summer and

unlike the vast majority of people with this diagnosis (sadly), he decided to take it very seriously. We've always eaten a wide range of healthy foods, so that wasn't a problem. We're foodies and love trying new things, so it was very easy to know what to eat. Our problem was always "too much of a good thing" and not enough exercise. That all changed because it had to change.

We stopped watching tv. Our social life has definitely suffered, as has the cleanliness of our house. But for 6 months we were at the gym 6-7 days a week. My husband dropped over 60 lbs and I dropped over 50. His doctor is absolutely amazed because his diabetes is virtually reversed. He wants my husband to be a motivational speaker because apparently most people go into major denial when they get diagnosed with diabetes.

Now my husband is nearly at his goal weight so we go to the gym a more manageable 5-6 times a week (which seems so easy after 6-7 times a week for months). I still have a ways to go to reach my goal weight but I can now officially say that I am addicted to way I feel after working out. Last night I was feeling really sick and achy so I didn't go (which was a good thing, I did need the rest), but today I am just ITCHIING to go back. I actually miss it. I never thought that would happen to me!

[Katherine Brengle]

69. What a great motivational story --

thanks for sharing. I am a firm believer that a lot of the health problems that Americans suffer these days come primarily from poor diet (or as you said, too much of even good things) and lack of physical exercise.

Congrats to you and your husband for taking things into your own hands and making time :D - it's a beautiful thing.

[grace0418]

79. Thank you! And thank you for having the perspective that you have.

I've come across more than a few personal trainers that act like anyone who isn't a total hardbody is practically subhuman. You sound like you must be excellent at your job.

[Katherine Brengle]

112. Idiots in every profession lol.

Though there seem to be more stupid and ignorant trainers than there are stupid and ignorant people in the general population lol.

[Deja Q]

50. What's wrong with encouraging people to exercise?

And providing the backbone to give people a reason to WANT to live...

For every time I do something that's exercise and like it, then I hear more shit on the news that makes me think "Why the fuck should anybody bother?"

If I got paid to exercise, I'd be in the gym 8 hours a day. Being a mountain climber as a career would be great...

I'm sorry you get looks of disgust. So do I. So does anybody who doesn't look just right.

Oh, I eat precious little junk food; my diet is essentially protein, COMPLEX carbs (apples and bananas and certain grains) and proteins (including whey protein w/amino acids). Stuff like "slim fast" is refined sugars or 'simple carbs'; that product is one of the worst jokes put forth to the American consumer.

You're 18. Your muscles haven't atrophied yet. I suggest you don't give in to your hate and develop a habit of exercising. Assuming you have things you want to live for AND live another 18 years, you won't want to feel chronic pain and worse by the time you're 36.


BTW: I'm 34, 206LBs, size 33 waist. About 24LBs overweight and I currently manage to hide it well but I'd rather be free of it. Especially as a lot of it is in the abs, the "danger zone". Exercise, muscle building and cardio, is the only way and it'll take time. Pills are a joke and I'm not doing that stomach surgery stuff. And if I can't I can't. In the end, we all have to be happy with ourselves.

[BuelahWitch]

52. You're extremely articulate and sound very intelligent

Why would someone overlook that because you've got a double chin? :shrug: Maybe you need to hang around different types of women..

[wicket]

60. "Why would someone overlook that because you've got a double chin?"

Agreed, he sounds like a catch. Anyone who wouldn't go out with him because of being overweight is so not worth his time. IMHO.

[BreweryYardRat]

68. Not so articulate in person, sadly.

I'm much better at typing things out. Perhaps I should take a public speaking class or two.

And most/all of the smart women I know are taken.

[DaveJ]

76. That's a common misconception

Whoever you end up with will most likely not be someone you presently know.

My advice: if there no wedding ring, assume a woman is not taken unless they tell you otherwise. If they 'say' they're taken, then back off immediately, but not before.

Some women who are taken are in unhealthy relationships. Many men cheat, abuse, and/or abuse drugs, so one thing you can do is rescue a woman from a situation like that (try not to get in a fight though).

[BuelahWitch]

93. If a public speaking class will give you a little confidence

then, by all means, take one. That's probably all you need. Your posts are very refreshing and well thought out, far different from the "U r hawt!!!" stuff I see online (not generally on DU though).

Edited because I pulled a freeper "You're" when it was suppose to be "your." OY!!!

[CatWoman]

54. I see you missed my Tyra Banks thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=6117749

[wicket]

58. I think she looks fantastic

Why anyone would look at her and call her fat is beyond me :shrug:

[wicket]

56. I'm fat

I was close to 300 pounds. I stopped drinking soda about 6 weeks ago and the pounds are starting to come off. I've been seeing a nutritionist too. Just wanted you to know that I know how hard it is :hug:

[demrabble]

59. An "Acceptable" Stereotype

Bias and prejudice against fat people is one of the "acceptable" stereotypes still held by our society.

Same with being old.

Society has this ideal of perfection, and it does not include being fat -- or being old.

It is so sad, really that society feels this way.

[rpgamerd00d]

63. You know what I think ? In all honesty ?

I think that there are no fat people in aboriginal tribes for a reason.

Its because they live a lifestyle that utterly prohibits them from being fat.

And I believe that anyone could choose to be thin if they were willing *and able* to change their lifestyle, utterly.

The problem is that "and able" part. To be able to change your lifestyle utterly (and I mean utterly), is either unrealistic or it costs lots of money. You have to be able to exercise for at least 8 hours a day - this isn't an option for people with steady jobs, family life, etc. You have to be able to eat only the best, healthiest foods - this is not cheap.

I think anyone that is truly serious about weight loss can do it to some extent, over time, if they are disciplined and focussed. I do not believe artificial means are required (pills, surgery, etc.) I think it can be done 100% naturally. It simply requires gaining extensive knowledge about your own body (your own metabolic rate, your PH, where your body chooses to store fat first, second, third, etc.) and then using that knowledge to customize your weight loss.

[Katherine Brengle]

72. Hyperbole...

You don't need to exercise for 8 hours a day to be fit and healthy.

I spend less than 8 hours per week in the gym.

Results are born in the mind and in the kitchen - the gym is a supplement. A necessary and useful one, but one nonetheless.

[LaBanty]

65. I agree, it's taboo

Having gone up and down the scales myself throughout my life, I know I don't like it when I'm fat. I don't like how I look, how my clothes fit, or how I feel.

There's fat, and there's seriously FAT. There's chubby and a spare tire, and there'e morbidly obese. I think people tend to be harder on the fattest of fat, rather than people who are mildly plump. It isn't just the appearance that people find offensive - it's the initial impression the person is probably too lazy to be un-fat, since most active people are not markedly overweight. Since people are brought up to reward being industrious and active, a seriously fat person's appearance is the antithesis of this.

And, just from a personal point of view, copious rolls of fat and cellulite are not sexy. Staring at a naked guy who can't see his own pecker because his stomach blocks the view is a total turn-off. I know there are certain fetish groups that disagree - but I really think those are a minority. Just sayin'. But, to each their own...

[Kurovski]

66. You might want to get food allergy testing, cravings may come from

allergies to foods.

Get yourself off high-fructose corn syrup...it's a real fat-maker and creates cravings. it's probably the next step down from corn-liqour, and the cravings are very similar. (read the ingrediants on your pop-tarts) get rid of all soft drinks.

It works. I've done it. We may never be GQ material, but we don't have to risk our health.

[Matariki]

67. I've been involved in a 'sex positive' community where quite a few people are 'overweight'

It's wonderful to see people have a healthy sense of self and acceptance of their own sexuality - and to have a community where the prevailing attitude is that *everyone* has a right to their sexuality, not just skinny or young people. Our culture tends to hold the belief that other people's sexuality is somehow for the benefit of 'the viewer' - if that makes sense. That is, if someone isn't 'attractive', the prevailing attitude is that they shouldn't have any sort of sexuality. Or their sexuality is somehow comical or disturbing. That really bothers me a lot.

That said, I've also noticed a sad but common double standard. I've seen quite a few 'overweight' people reject other 'overweight' people as not attractive or not sexually interesting in favor of wanting the attention of thinner people. And then getting angry if those thinner people aren't interested.

Self confidence is a great aphrodisiac, btw.

[Thirtieschild]

70. My daughter is overweight, very much so

She got to know her husband through letters (snail mail, not e-mail) over four and a half years. She lived in NY, he lived in London. When she finally admitted to him that she was overweight, he sent her a box of chocolates and a photo of a Rubens painting. They're married now, live in Yorkshire, have two toddlers. Some men are keepers.

He's thin, btw; she had a beautiful body, gained weight after a brutal rape, was losing the weight through exercise, fell and broke her ankle, by the time she could resume exercise the weight - and the ice cream - were out of control. I worry about her health - she had gestational diabetes with both babies, which is a precursor of the real thing.

I was too thin during my 20s and early 30s - weight finally stabilized at 128 after my fourth baby (5'6", medium frame). Menopause came simultaneously with quitting smoking, over the 25 years since then, my weight has ballooned to 195. I know it's not healthy, glucose level is going up. I don't eat as much as I look like I eat, mostly eat healthy, do water aerobics three times a week, but am still way too heavy. Don't realize just how big I am until I see a photo. UGH. Losing weight at 72 isn't easy. Would like to hear from someone who has done it. How?????

[Fire Walk With Me]

71. This isn't fat, it's ablative shielding.

In Bush's world, it pays to think ahead.

[DaveJ]

74. "Women don't even notice me"

Believe it or not, there are many guys that age who are in great shape, yet who are also completely ignored by women.

I have a daughter that is a year younger than you, and even if you lived only a mile away, you would never meet her. We may be too conservative, but we are trying to steer her away from thinking that life is a dating party. So if you feel you are ignored by women, it is not you, but that the girls are behaving the way their parents want.

We are teaching our daugher not to make looks an important factor when judging others. Most parents probably are the same way. I believe that girls, both naturally and through encouragement from parents, look at other factors such as maturity and personal responsibility more than anything else.

Haven't you seen guys who look hideous to you, yet are with the most attractive women?
That should tell you that looks are not that important except in terms of your own self perception.

[AngryAmish]

75. When I was your age I could lose a pound a day

My record was going from 175 to 145 in a month. I know you don't want diet advice but for me I had to stop drinking beer (which sucked) and work out for 1 1/2 to 2 hours a day.

Problem was when I started drinking beer again...

Anyway, good luck.

[Roon]

77. I have been fat

and I have been thin. And you are right, the world treats you differently when you are fat. They treat you better when you are thin.

[Horse with no Name]

78. I know that it exists

I have heard horror stories.
However, I consider myself fat and I have never had trouble getting the job I wanted or basically anything else I wanted.
The only grief I ever get is from my mother who is a size 4 on one of her fat days.
I have never had a problem dating someone that was heavy. However, if they have bad social skills--that would be the reason I wouldn't go out with them again. I have gotten up and walked out on a date once because we were at a VERY nice restaurant and this guy was shoveling food in his mouth and talking with his mouth full. It was thoroughly disgusting. Other people were staring it was so obnoxious.

[distantearlywarning]

83. What pisses me off

Invariably in any thread like this one, people post all of their secrets for losing weight, a great many of which include "eat less, exercise more". Ok, that's great. Few people will argue with that, although I agree with others who say that there is a genetic component also.

HOWEVER....that's not what the original post was about. He didn't ask how he could lose weight. He was venting about being perceived a certain way by others and being treated badly.

And in almost every single thread I've ever seen about this subject on DU and other forums, people write in and say some version of the following, "I hate how I and others are treated by the society around me".

The solution to the particular problem they are identifying is not for them to try endless diets and exercise until their legs fall off. That will help them lose weight, feel better, and be healthier, yes, but it will not solve the problem of social stigma against fat people, which is clearly the major issue for them.

One question I never hear answered by the "I hate fat people" and "just exercise" crowds is: WHY SHOULD FAT PEOPLE BE STIGMATIZED IN THE FIRST PLACE????

All of us do many unhealthy things in this society. We fail to wear our seat belts, we eat too much fat and sugar (yes, even the thin ones - you should see the crap the little 18 year old girls eat on my campus!), we fail to pressure our politicians to do enough about the pollution that gives us cancer, we don't eat green vegetables, we don't exercise, we spend too much time being angry, we work too much and vacation too little, we don't get enough sunshine, we abuse one another, on and on and on and so forth. I could probably post a list of about 4000 "bad" things the average American does on a daily basis that are not particularly healthy or good for them psychologically or physically.

So if unhealthy behavior is deserving of ridicule, why are fat people the only ones stigmatized? Because their unhealthiness is externally visible? And why are other people's lifestyles or eating habits, regardless of visible consequences, anyone else's damn business anyway?

Nobody here is asking for every person to run out and find a 400 lb person to sleep with.

Most of us are just asking for a little respect and to not be treated like pariahs. Why is that too much to ask for?

I dream of living in a society someday where social censure is reserved for people who hurt others, and isn't applied to fat people, minorities, gays, or anyone else who just doesn't happen to fit whatever social norm happens to be popular at the time. Subscribing to hate and contempt because of someone's looks is the arena of the little mind. Sadly, there are a lot of little minds out there right now. I worry that if we finally figure out how to treat fat people like human beings, we'll just all move right on to some other group to hate and ridicule.

[Taverner]

89. I'm fairly athletic, but I've always found "curvier" women attractive

Again, most guys I know prefer curvier women - despite what the fashonistas tell us. Fuck them. Tyra looks better now.

[shugah]

91. do you play video games?

my 18 yo son is overweight, and i'm not at all thin anymore myself.

a couple of months ago, we got DDR (dance dance revolution). my son loves to play video games, and i love to dance, so this game is about the perfect exercise solution for both of us. and, it is a workout! but so much fun! we can do it for hours when we have the time.

anyway, you should think about DDR - it's great aerobically, plus most girls/women really like men who can dance :-)

[distantearlywarning]

92. I play DDR.

I do it as a fun workout also and I LOVE it! Finding DDR was the best thing that ever happened to my workouts. It's about 4000 times more entertaining than a treadmill or aerobics. There have been times when I realized that I had been dancing without realizing how much time was elapsing, which is something that never happened with any other kind of cardio exercise I ever did (except for competitive sports). My husband and I do it together sometimes, and he enjoys it too.

I totally second the recommendation for DDR as a form of exercise.

[grace0418]

95. Wii Boxing is great too. You really work up a sweat ducking and weaving

and punching. It doesn't replace a full-on workout but every little bit of cardio helps.

[snooper2]

99. What do you think of that show Biggest Loser?

A couple weeks ago they had a "marathon" and my girlfriend and I got sucked in to watching it. It actually triggered us to start working out once in a while together which is actually a nice way to spend time.




after 12 weeks...



The winner Erik had the onset of diabeties and heart disease when they did their first physical...

[distantearlywarning]

104. I think it's a good idea, but...

I wish they wouldn't kick people off as part of the "game". I wish they would just keep working with people who were willing to put in the effort, regardless of whether or not they lost as much as someone else.

Also, the one season I watched seemed to heavily favor the extremely overweight men and provide handicaps to the somewhat overweight women. It's a lot easier for a 400 lb guy to lose 15 lbs in a week than a 175 lb woman - she just doesn't have as much to lose, and women have a harder time anyway. I always thought it would be more fair if they set it up as a percentage of your starting body weight instead of just raw pounds. That way a 15 lb loss for a 400 lb guy would be the same as a 6 lb loss for a 175 lb woman (not that losing 6 lbs in a week is healthy anyway). But maybe they do that now in the new seasons?

[snooper2]

105. I agree, it should be a percentage of body mass...

That would make it more fair....They are playing for $250,000

[Burma Jones]

103. I have found that the worst of the perception problem comes from within

I am 6"1', about 300 pounds. When I was 18, I was about 260. When I was 17, I was more like 360. I thought I was disgusting, here's a photo from age 18:



What I looked like, and was, was an offensive lineman....It was very hard to shake off the feeling that I was a disgusting pig.


I am 47 now. I use CPAP for apnea, but I also have a small larnyx. I take Zocor, but so does my skinny-ass Mom. I walk 4 miles, within 50 minutes, four days a week. I eat a lot. My BP averages 125/75. I am losing weight so I do not have structural problems. The worst thing about the weight has been some back pain from time to time.

When I was in HS, well over 300 pounds, I dated a Cheerleader. Another student asked my then GF why she dated such a "fat pig." She told him that I made her laugh, I was popular and I was a great kisser......

Here's a photo of this Fat Slob's wife and family from a few years back:



and last month:



My wife is a big shot Yoga instructor. Other men envy me my situation.

In short, just do not forget to exercise, eat healthy food, do not think of yourself as inferior, and things will work out well.......


On Edit, regarding the "stupid" slur about overweight folks. I suggest these folks attend a Doctoral level Computer Science symposium, you will see that the girth-some are well represented :)

[jpgray]

111. Great pics and story

[GaYellowDawg]

106. I agree that there's a stigma

And I also agree that self-confidence can offset it. My oldest friend from childhood grew up overweight. When he and I were in college together, I was in great shape but he had more dates than I did because he just has a very charismatic personality and he absolutely loves women - not as an object or something to be gained, but just for being women, and that shines through. That kind of self-confidence is awfully hard to come by when society bashes you for your appearance, and you have to be willing to be really hurt when you project love. It's hard, and I completely understand you.

And oh, the irony. I gained a lot of weight after college and he had gastric bypass surgery for health reasons a couple of years ago and I'm over 100 lbs heaver than him now (he lost about 230 pounds).

I know you didn't ask for advice, but here's some: find a way to be happy with yourself. If you think you can be happy with yourself with how you look now, then do that. If you find that you can't and have to lose weight to be happier, then lose the weight. In either case, do what it takes to be happy with yourself.

And if you want some success getting a date, ask someone out when you don't really give a damn whether she says "yes" or not. Then when you go out, do all the little things - be on time, open doors (car doors are great), pull a chair out for her if you go to dinner, make an effort to look a little nicer than you think you have to, compliment her because she's sure taken the time to look nice, and thank her at the end of the date.

One more thing: it works the other way around, too. The hardest I ever fell in love was with a friend in college whom I wasn't particularly attracted to the first time I saw her. I became friends with her, spent a lot of time with her, and all of a sudden one day the sun hit her a certain way and I was stunned at how beautiful she was. I would have done just about anything to have the privilege of putting a ring on her finger but she didn't feel the same way. It hurt but it taught me a very valuable lesson about women and looks. Ever since then, every single woman I've thought had a good personality has always become attractive in some fashion, and no outside beauty has been able to make up for inside ugly.

[Nikia]

115. My husband is a little taller and heavier than you

Probably about the equivalent BMI. Before I started dating him when we were 19, I did not think that I would date a man that was roughly a foot taller and twice as heavy. I don't think that it makes him look unattractive. He looks like a football player, even though he stopped playing football in eighth grade. Aren't guys that look like football players considered desireable? Maybe it depends where you live. I live in Wisconsin.
As for me, it is complicated and don't feel like talking about it right now, although I have in past posts.