My friend's 82 year old mother was crying hysterically this morning

[spotbird]

She believes Congress gave her a death sentence last night. She said today is Armageddon. She is sure she is too old to get Death Panel approval of surgery she may need to repair an aneurysm. My friend tried to explain that nothing has changed for her mother's Medicare, but the mother was not consoled, she simply told her daughter that she was ill informed.

OK, I didn't like this bill, but at least I know why. It is frankly wrong for the right wing media to get old people so worked up. Now, I know the people who believe it are also somewhat at fault, but the broadcasters who promulgate this demagoguery are beneath contempt.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[bigtree]

9. It's not right that so many are proclaiming that it's some doom for everyone

The fact that it doesn't appear this woman will be negatively affected at all by the bill is the responsibility of those who are more interested in making a political point than in disseminating the truth about the legislation; who will actually be affected and who will benefit.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

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[theophilus]

12. No, she's wrong and so are you. Life will go on and there will be many positives from

this.

[ixion]

14. That's your opinion

good for you.

[Lex]

And yours is your opinion

good for you.

[ixion]

32. Exactly!!

That's what we need more of. :hi:

[onenote]

34. so today is what you think armaggedon looks like?

Its slightly overcast here but as far as I can tell, the earth has split open and I can't see any flames raining down from the heavens or the seas boiling. How is it in your neck of the woods?

[ixion]

36. I had this quote in my sig line during the BushCo years, but it's poignant now

and describes what is going on perfectly.

"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
-- Justice William O. Douglas

This was a government power grab, right along the lines of the unPATRIOTic Act, which I equally despise.

[county worker]

48. Just what did the government take over?

[ixion]

53. My ability to choose

which, as we all know in the case of abortion, is a fundamental right.

[spotbird]

58. Your ability to chose what? nt

[ixion]

60. Whether or not I want to purchase health insurance, and by extension what I do with my body

Oh, and the argument that "if you don't like it, pay the fine" is a no-fly.

[county worker]

63. You can do what you want with your body, your getting a little dramatic.

[ixion]

66. Wow. A woman's right to choose is fundamental, but mine is dramatic

who knew?

[roseBudd]

97. And if you become severely injured and require constant care, tax payers

are stuck with the cost of your care. How is that fair to the commons?

[county worker]

61. Your ability to have the government pay for your choice you mean.

You can still choose.

Nothing is changed in that area by this bill.

[ixion]

62. No, I want nothing from the government in that regard... in fact, I want nothing at all

other than wanting them to stay the hell out of my life.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spotbird]

92. Then don't take it.

They won't make you seek health care.

[ixion]

93. No, they'll just make me pay for it

ducky.

[spotbird]

94. How does that invade your body?

I pay for two wars that are morally wrong. Government makes contribute to all kinds of things we oppose.

[ixion]

95. And so because that's morally wrong (which I whole-heartedly agree)

that makes it okay to do this other thing? Where's the logic in that?

[theophilus]

59. No, we need more discussion of things that have actually happened.

Opinion should not be the foundation of discussion. Facts should be the foundation. Opinion should try to build on the facts. We just waste time this way, that's my opinion.

[ixion]

64. That worked out well for a few years, until some folks

decided to change the criteria for what constitutes a fact. Now we have a modern tower of babel on our hands, unleashed by BushCo, but enabled by Dems "keeping their powder dry".

[MineralMan]

77. Aren't you getting tired of being a perpetual doomsayer?

Really...

[ixion]

80. Yes, but I'm unable to ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room

hence the posts that you find so offensive. Pretending that it's not there doesn't make it go away, just so you know.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

86. Ah, my suggestion was that you not read DU any longer.

That way, you wouldn't have to post. Odd that you read something else into it.

[ixion]

87. nice try

whatever. good day.

[Xenotime]

82. Not opinion but fact.

[gateley]

13. Hi! Remember me?

Have you signed on to Grayson's Medicare Buy In petition? (That's assuming you agree with it, of course.)

Here's the link:

http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=17

He's got 80 co-sponsors thus far, so if your congressperson would be agreeable (but isn't on the list), please contact him/her.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:4789:./list/bss/d111HR.lst:@@@P|TOM:/bss/111search.html|


We've got to DO something. As pleased as I am that the bill passed yesterday, like I said, I know it sucks so let's not let this momentum go to waste. :hi:

[bullwinkle428]

2. I hope there's a special place in Hell waiting for Chuck Grassley!

:mad:

[Jennicut]

3. she is actually lucky, she has Medicare. I like many of the things in the bill

and wanted it to pass but Medicare really is a good deal. I think if she wasn't 82, she would understand that. It is disgusting to scare old people but when are conservatives not disgusting?

[Bozita]

4. The GOP fear machine strikes again

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. Yes. It is wrong for the RW media to do this. But they don't care.

They'd rather use people like your mom to get what they want.

[peacetalksforall]

11. Propaganda of fear and hate is more important than human beings to self -brain washed idiots with a.

high per cent of bigots.

[LisaM]

6. Can you get her to talk to a doctor

or her insurance company? I hate to hear stories like this. How do we get through to people who believe this?

[my2sense]

20. I wish the Democrats would flood the DUMB BOX with

ads explaining away the nonsense being spewed by the right. They are despicable for causing unnecessary worry and panic.

[spotbird]

21. She has a son who is a doctor,

but since he's also a liberal, she won't believe him either.

There isn't a news source, or politician, I would believe as completely as the right wing base believes in Fox, et al.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. Well, if she's so determined to believe the world has ended, by all means, let her.

With any luck she'll be sick enough (either for real or in her imagination) she won't be able to vote Republican come November.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

30. Can you use the parental controls on her TV machine and

block those RW propaganda channels ?

[crazylikafox]

43. That's funny... But not a bad idea

[Hippo_Tron]

33. It's simple, she's going to learn from first hand experience

Because that's the only way that these people will learn. She's going to believe this nonsense up until the moment she goes and gets her srugery and isn't denied by a nonexistant death panel.

[Grand Taurean]

7. It would be just if Sarah Palin and Chuck Grassley had to pay for that LIE!

[HopeHoops]

8. The EXISTING health care system gave my late F-I-L a death sentence by aneurysm.

It was just shy of large enough to qualify for "coverage". Two months later, it burst. Things can only get better.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. That is criminal. >:(

I cannot stand the bill but fuck anyone who would try to scare anyone on MEDICARE by saying they were getting screwed over. That is just WRONG on so many levels.

May Karma come back to bite those fuckers on the ass.

[Maru Kitteh]

15. The fear tactics they have used are shameless and disgusting.

I hope the lady is able to take her mom to the doctor and speak with her physician about her worries. Hopefully that will put her at ease.

[Poll_Blind]

16. In other words, she is fucking crazy. Crying hysterically is a typical side effect.

Believes in the Armageddon? CHECK!
Believes the HCR will result in death panels? CHECK!
Unwilling to listen to others who try to help her away from the irrational fear? CHECK!
Goes farther and tells those who try to inform her that they are uninformed? CHECK!

At this point, I wouldn't be worried about her aneurysm- she's so far down the rabbit hole, and willingly-so, she ain't coming back.

I'm pro comforting old ladies, they usually have this nice powdery smell that's one of the things that makes it worthwhile. Oh, and they make wiked baked treats to show their thanks. There's actually a whole lot of other reasons why I like helping out old ladies in distress.

But just being an old lady doesn't mean you can't also be batshit crazy- of your own doing.

Lemme guess- does she have an opinion on where Obama was born, whether he's a communist or not, etc?

Cause when people believe in Tha Death Panels, there's usually a whole lot of other bullshit they believe too. I hear crazy is like potato chips- you can't just subscribe to one nutto thing, there's usually a whole bag of French Onion-flavored idiocy by the bed.

PB

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

22. Trusts greedy strangers on Fox News more than her own loving flesh and blood? Check!

After all, what did your own family ever do for you that suckling at the teat of Limbaugh and Beck didn't provide a thousand times over? :sarcasm:

[Poll_Blind]

23. Yep. Straight up. n/t

PB

[Maru Kitteh]

35. Many elderly spend strings of long days full of empty hours alone

Cognitive decline, which is a normal and inevitable consequence of aging, combines with loneliness and very real feelings of vulnerability and makes people like this elderly lady an easy target.

TV moves faster than most people that age care for. Nothing on FM radio is of much interest to them and they grew up listening to AM radio anyway. AM radio was once the community center. A friendly place where they could go and hear about local issues and going on from their neighbors. Along comes Rush who keeps them company for three whole hours a day and promises to tell them the truth.

They're vulnerable, they're lonely, and they're not so good at picking apart what would seem obvious to so many anymore.

I would hope the more enlightened among us might show a little more compassion.

[maxsolomon]

51. compassion is tiring

when your mother gets socialized health care till the day she dies, but still thinks only Fox tells the truth and that if you speak against it you don't love her, well, let's just say it's hard on your compassion.

[REP]

56. Or they were gullible young people who grew to be gullible old people

Older people really are old enough to know better. This woman lived through McCarthy; unless she's become senile (which not all elderly are), she really has no excuse. This scolding is brought to via my mother (via her mother) - age does not excuse bad manners or stupidity.

[Poll_Blind]

79. I considered that. I went and re-read the original post a few times before....

...I came to the conclusion I did for exactly the reason that I didn't want to jump on somebody like that, being in their position. I agree with everything you said just now.

However, I didn't see anything in the OP which led me to believe this was part of something...more sympathetic. If the woman is suffering from full-blown dementia, that is the only way her actions can be cast in a sympathetic light based on the specific behavior the OP described.

I realize Rush comes along and wants to be her friend for, as you said, three whole hours. But I cannot sympathize with adoption of his beliefs, no-matter what comfort he may provide her. Even when Fibber McGhee and Molly, The Whistler, or The Shadow kept her company so long ago she still should have had enough sense in her head to know they weren't real. Sup at the table of someone like Limbaugh and the hate rolls off him like fat off bacon.

You don't get lured into these beliefs, nobody makes you swallow those kinds of messages: You embrace them.

If I'm 82 years old and someone's keeping me company on the radio by telling me about how bad the blacks and the mexicans are, etc. etc., I may well listen to them 8 hours a day out of loneliness- but I'll be yelling back at the radio calling them fuckheads instead of nodding.

PB

[ThoughtCriminal]

96. Extra crispy! Now with Texas Style BBQ Sauce and Sprinkles!

"you can't just subscribe to one nutto thing, there's usually a whole bag of French Onion-flavored idiocy by the bed"

[Hello_Kitty]

18. It's despicable.

I hope the admin. is planning to do some serious outreach to elderly people to explain that they will not be hurt by this plan.

[get the red out]

19. Fox News effect

Sad that people loose their minds to the pure propaganda, but they do.

[havocmom]

100. Exactly. Until masses of people start barraging the fear mongers with comeuppance, it will happen

People get away with lying. Hell, FOX won a court case against some on air talent who refused to stay on a script they knew to be dishonest.

And too many people do not have/use critical thinking so FOX maintains an audience.

Until there is a vaccine for foolish/willfully ignorant, I guess too many people will be victims of the lying.

[Tailormyst]

24. The poor woman

God how I hate faux news.

[Motown_Johnny]

26. need to Block FOX on her TV

should have done it years ago

[Uncle Joe]

27. That will be the general drumbeat from the corporate media over the next decade or so.

They will only serve criticism from the conservative perspective to distort the American People's perspective and eliminate consideration of a strong national public option or universal coverage and to serve Republican interests.

The vast majority of the corporate media's goal is in protecting their commercial/advertising buying client for profit "health" insurance corporations' profits so that more commercials/advertising can be bought from the corporate media.

Thanks for the thread, spotbird.

[MindandSoul]

28. It is so sad that all the Right wing propaganda can scare so many people!

I'm so sorry for your mom! I hope she sees in the next few days that no one will euthanize her!

But. . . the fact is that surgery to repair an aneurysm is VERY risky in the best of circumstances, and that your mom's age is a huge risk in itself. So, the risk may be too great for ANY surgeon to take.
The reason I know this is that my own husband was diagnosed with an aneurysm (of the aorta) a little over 3 years ago, when he was only 67 years old.
This aneurysm was large and could have burst at anytime, causing probable death or at least taking away most of his ability to function. Yet, the 2 surgeons that were consulted were unsure whether it was wise to proceed with the surgery (by the way, he did have not only medicare insurance but also the "cadillac" supplemental plan).
After a long series of tests (including MRI's, full cardiac assessments, angiograms, etc.. .) they decided to go ahead with the surgery, but after making the statement that, if my husband had not stopped smoking more than 5 years prior to the discovery of the aneurysm, they would NOT have gone ahead with the surgery, because the risks of massive stroke and/or danger from the anesthesia would have been too great!

Luckily, the surgery went well (although he required a second surgery when he did develop a blood clot in his leg!), and my husband is today as healthy (or healthier than he was prior to the surgery).

All this long story (not to bore you to death with a personal story!), but because. . .it is possible that your mom may not be eligible for such an invasive surgery. . .and then it would be so easy for detractor of the health care reform to "assign" that rejection to "death panel!" And this would be totally unfair and untrue. . .but I expect this situation to happen over and over again in the next few months!

I apologize if I bored you with all this. . .I thought it needed to be said. And, please, check around you for the veracity of my story!

[Maru Kitteh]

38. Your story was very helpful! Nuance and finer points always get lost in the screaming.

Thanks for sharing.

[MindandSoul]

85. Thanks!

[spotbird]

39. Yep.

There is a reason the surgery hasn't been preformed in the pre Death Panel world, but that's just caution, now it's rationing.

Thanks for your thoughts.

PS It's my friends mother, not mine, thank God.

[kimi]

101. You're absolutely right . . .

there are many reasons for delaying or not doing surgeries or other medical procedures, and for the most part they are entirely warranted and medically necessary decisions, not decided by bureaucrats. It's much easier and sounds better for angry patients and their families to say that they've been denied by "death panels" or somesuch, when that's not the case at all. Thank you for pointing that out, and I hope your husband's recovery continues.

[druidity33]

105. i wonder

if that surgery would be performed on anyone who needed it regardless of riskin a country that had single payer?

:shrug:

[Cetacea]

29. Media,media,media...

[Hippo_Tron]

31. This is why it's great that the bill passed

When she goes to get her surgery and realizes that there are no death panels and millions of others will come to the conclusion that we've already reached which is that Sarah Palin and the teabaggers are full of shit.

[jwirr]

37. Tell your friend to talk to her doctor. They will be able to tell her that

there is no panel and that she will be covered when the time comes.

[JBoy]

46. Wouldn't her doctor be on the death panel? Y'know, now that they're all working for the gov't?

[jwirr]

55. LOL

[grantcart]

40. No problem she is a good candidate for the Rapture and can get her Rapture supplies here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x238651

[gratuitous]

41. With a heavy sigh, I picked up the pillow

I said, in a tone of sad resignation, "This is what you get for not acting as the One True Messiah, Glenn Beck, ordered you to. You didn't rise up. You didn't take to the streets. We were concerned when he told you that you surrounded us, and that you would actually put his holy words into action. But it didn't happen. No, you counted on us liberals' basic humanity and decency, and this is where it has gotten you. I am about to suffocate you, but I do it without malice, and with only the purest of motives, you may rest assured. Please try to limit your struggles, as I don't wish to make this any more difficult on either of us. Simply relax and head for the light."

How do you respond to such willful, stubborn ignorance?

[laughingliberal]

42. Just unforgiveable they pushed this talking point. The poor lady! nt

[One_Life_To_Give]

44. Dr's have pitched such as well

My parents Cardiologists have also made statements about the reduced payments from Medicare in this plan. And that they would forgo seeing Medicare patients as a result. Guess only time will tell if these Dr's are serious about refusing further Medicare patients or not. But the threat is very disturbing to those in need.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. 82 is old enough to know better.

No sympathies.

[Oregone]

50. To the contrary, at some point some people start aging back-wards mentally

Not sure if that applies here or not

[pitohui]

73. around age 85 half the population has some symptoms of dementia

our youth centered culture has very unrealistic fantasies about old age, we think we're all going to be jet-skiing and working as IT consultants in our 90s instead of what's most likely to happen which is that our physical and mental being is going to be in decline

we can't accept it for ourselves, and so we don't forgive other older people for having what were once well-accepted if not exactly welcome symptoms of aging

[daleo]

75. It's sad but it's true. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. We don't agree often, but I agree with you here.

It has been the hardest lesson in caring for my grandmother.

[TexasObserver]

47. This is what the GOP, the health care industry, and Fox News have done.

They have lied to seniors and scared the daylights out of them.

The dual messages: they're cutting your medicare, and the method will be death panels.

Right now a death panel consists of some worker deep in the bowels of an office building, working in a cubicle, deciding whether grandma gets that operation or not.

[Arkana]

49. This is what RW disinformation has wrought.

[NNN0LHI]

52. Republicans use the same tactics as televangelists

Because it works.

Don

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

57. Anybody dumb enough to believe that "Death Panel" shit

is frankly beyond help. Sometimes nice old people can be fucking idiot teabaggers too.

[ecstatic]

65. Why are so many people on Medicare against other people getting care too

Very selfish, IMO.

[pitohui]

72. the aging brain loses intelligence/judgement -- fear and confusion lead to selfishness

some older people were once good people, but as you lose your ability to reason and your thinking becomes clouded, the resulting fear can really destroy the personality and the character

example -- so often people in the prodromal stages of alzheimer's don't seem, at first, as if they're getting stupid exactly, because they know to conceal their forgetfulness -- they seem as if they're getting shitty and selfish and "it's all about me"

[dustbunnie]

91. Quite true. It can be both heartbreaking and exasperating.

"The universe revolves around me" syndrome seems to become particularly exalted in elderly men who were always used to some deference anyway. What's absolutely horrifying is watching decent, kind people suddenly become bigoted or obnoxiously hateful toward other groups out of fear or because they are so muddled it's easy to influence their thinking. Although they say the internet has been a blessing for the elderly, in the case of my SO's uncle, it was not so. He got turned on to some conservative site where he met "friendly" people his own age and now he's hooked in and so full of that horse hooey they preach he's barely tolerable. I can see it happening totally.

[treestar]

67. The RW media could hear of this and think "good"

Even though they know they could stop it by telling the truth.

All of them to Costa Rica, now! (apologies to Costa Rica)

[Stevenmarc]

68. Pick up the phone and tell her to calm down or you'll call the death panel

[amborin]

70. please keep us updated

the ny times ran an article in december or so, about how medical "centers of excellence," such as ucla, were being examined and criticized by Obama, for spending too much resources and $$$$ on elderly patients. The medical centers' stance is: we'll do everything we can to save you. Obama relied on a flawed Darthmouth study to conclude they are wasting the money. Very intersting article

[pitohui]

71. that's a shame what time does to our brains

having seen a number of relatives affected by alzheimer's and age-related mental decline, i too agree that it's shitty to aim fear-mongering lies and propaganda at our older population

we must remember this: our enemy has NO honor

[L0oniX]

74. •

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. She may have mild dementia

Back in 1999, my mother, stepfather, and I were in a car accident while I was visiting Minneapolis (I still lived in Portland), and my mother was in intensive care for 10 days, during which she was unable to visit my grandmother, then age 100, in the nursing home.

My grandmother was CONVINCED that my mother had been killed. Absolutely CONVINCED.

Although my mom could talk on the phone, my grandmother was essentially deaf on the phone, so she wasn't sure it was my mother's voice.

So I know how very old people can be at times.

[Dappleganger]

90. Paranoia and anxiety goes along with the ALZ

Anti-anxiety meds are generally a big help but need to be adjusted regularly (and the patient needs to be watched).

When they become this way there is NO reasoning with them, you can pretty much forget about talking them down.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

78. I love the abusive posts calling this lady names

Awesome level of empathy: it is curious that some of us can be just as idiotically rude and cruel to the weak and vulnerable as the Tea Baggers.

Rock on, you brave internet warriors, rock on. Rahm would be proud.

[Blue-Jay]

84. Luckily, my grandmother is already dead.

Now I don't have to go kill her.

[Toasterlad]

89. We Are All Ultimately Responsible For Learning What Our Government Is Up To

However, I agree that people like Sarah Palin and the death panel crowd are evil.

[ShamelessHussy]

98. beneath contempt - is an understatement - I always had to calmly explain their M$M BS to my mom

over the years i was able to convince her that they are mostly paid shills working for the man, but still, every now and then i would have to break one of their scare tactics down for her, so she wouldn't worry, and my mom worried about everything... like what time it was, bless her soul!

but that is just 1 of the reasons they piss me off :argh:

[kimi]

99. I agree, the disinformation aimed at seniors scares the heck out of them

My mom is the same way. It's very difficult to get her to listen to reason, and I don't think she hears it anyway. She believes that "President Hussein" does have death panels set up and that the government is out to put her on one. It makes some of the family furious, I just feel immensely sad. She's been brainwashed by living with her uber-Republican/teabagger new husband's family and is isolated from us for the most part. Her fear is unwarranted, but it exists in her mind. I'm sorry for your friend's mom - a lot of us have this situation to deal with now.

[struggle4progress]

102. This is corporate "free speech rights." Expect more and more of the same

[eridani]

103. She belongs to the only group outside of Tricare beneficiaries, who is exempt from insurance

--death panels. Of course if the deficit reduction commission goes after Medicare, that could change. This bill? No problem for her at least.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

104. Neil Boortz : "Health Care Will 'Do More Damage Than 9/11 ... "

Boortz is the "flat tax" dude whose radio show and book are all about how HE
can pay less taxes on his riches.

But today on his show (only first few minutes, I always turn to another channel when he comes on)
he was comparing the health care bill to an attack on the Twin Towers.

Right Wing Reacts With Rage: Health Care Will 'Do More Damage Than 9/11 ...
Think Progress - Zaid Jilani - ‎9 hours ago‎
... radio host Neal Boortz tweeted that “Nancy Pelosi will be grinning and laughing” following the health care vote, which “will do more damage than 9/11.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/22/conservative-pundits-react-health/

[crazyjoe]

106. what's she worried about, medicare was only cut by $500,000,000,000