Anyone Else Fed Up With The "Ritalin Culture"

[Yehonala]

I'm posting this short rant to express my disgust with the culture that thinks that drugging your kids is the automatic solution to making kids more easy to raise. On one hand, marijuana is illegal while parents can get their kids drugged on mind altering substances when they can't handle the fact that their kid has a mind of their own.

[Warpy]

1. Ritalin is a miracle drug for the kids who really need it.

If Mom forgets, kids will ask for it, it's that important to their ability to function.

However, any parent who puts a child on it without a thorough evaluation by a pediatric neurologist or psychologist who is trained to diagnose ADHD and differentiate it from high energy is doing a disservice to the child.

It's a miracle drug but it likely has been overprescribed and given to children who not only don't need it, but who are harmed by it.

Get that evaluation, people. Your child deserves it.

[MindandSoul]

9. Sounds like "drug addiction" to me!

I do know that ritalin is helpful in SOME cases. . .but it is being WIDELY overuse!

And. . .yes, it is an addictive drug. . .
So it is not surprising that kids ask for it. . . and continue to take it even in adulthood!

[Warpy]

14. Are diabetics addicted to insulin?

Are asthmatics addicted to Prednisone?

Withdrawing either drug will have serious consequences.

Perhaps you need to revisit "dependency" versus "addiction." They are very different phenomena.

Shame on you for judging people you don't know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Yep, my dad is addicted to insulin

and lord knows I am addicted to my asthma drugs... :sarcasm: of course.

The problem is that we still have a certain social stigma to meds that change the nature of the mind... but not to drugs like insulin.

[anigbrowl]

26. That's OK, you sound like a typical uninformed drug warrior to me.

Excuse me if I choose to use a pharmaceutical approach to managing the effects of insufficient natural dopamine levels. You apparently don't have to live with the frustration and exhaustion resulting from unusual brain chemistry which often interferes with my ability to do the things I want to do, rather than anything imposed by 'society' or 'the system'. If I start to do a painting or piece of writing or music and am unable to bring it to fruition because of difficulty in maintaining the necessary creative focus, that makes me unhappy and I'm entitled to take whatever approach I like to addressing that problem.

[Codeine]

30. And you sound like an idiot to me.

Mind-altering pharmacueticals helped save my life, or at least my sanity. Take your primitivist yammering elsewhere.

[enlightenment]

31. Really? Proof, please, that a child with ADD/ADHD will become

addicted to the drug.

Ritalin, and similar drugs, create a totally different response in ADD/ADHD kids than in kids without the condition - ask yourself why a stimulant helps a hyperactive child to calm down.

Yes, they should be tested thoroughly and evaluated regularly, just as you would a child with diabetes. But you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As for the rest; did it ever occur to you that this isn't something people necessarily grow out of - there are plenty of adults with ADD/ADHD. Do some research before you rant . . .

[MindandSoul]

74. I believe I did say that it is useful for SOME children!

But it is MUCH over-used in America!

It is not use half as much in any other countries. . .unless you can do enough research that shows that American kids are under some sort of social (I would believe that) or environmental conditions that double or triple the likelyhood that they develop ADD/ADHD???

And, as all medications, there are side effects that are very negative! I believe that ONLY extreme cases of ADD/ADHD in children should be treated with ANY psychotropic drugs. Unfortunately, it is not the case with this drug. . .it is the automatic "answer" to too many discipline problems.

No, I am not a doctor, or a pharmacologist. But as a social worker I have worked both with adults with mental illness, and children and adults with developmental disabilities. I have also advocated for children in school's multi-disciplinary teams.

[awoke_in_2003]

111. I have to agree with you...

my granddaughter is ADD, and without her meds (not Ritalin, forgot the name) she is a holy freaking terror. With it she is calm, relaxed, and her mind can focus. She is an exceptionally (scarely so) smart child, but when unmedicated I don't think she could handle reading a level below her current state. She had to go one day without medicine once, because the stepdaughter had an airhead moment and didn't get refills. I have NEVER seen a child drink a cup of coffee and then settle down.

on edit- I think I may take one thing back. I noticed when I was a teen that coffee calmed me down. Even today, I can't focus without some caffeine.

[Jackpine Radical]

129. True ADHD is a condition of cortical UNDERAROUSAL.

The stimulant drugs work to increase activation in the cortex. Physical hyperactivity is essentially the kid's attempt to compensate for underarousal by increasing his level of physical stimulation. I think that a course of neurotherapy (eeg or cortical bloodflow biofeedback) treatment is a much healthier approach because (in at least 80% of cases) it ends up freeing the patient from drugs entirely.

[barbiegeek]

152. Can you site Research that biofeedback works

What is the long term side effects of neurotherapy. Once Ritalin is out of your system it's out. It doesn't build up in your tissues.

[Name removed]

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[derby378]

67. As one who has taken Ritalin for some 10 years as an adult...

...I can tell you that Ritalin has a very low potential for addiction. It does, however, have a high potential for abuse; hence the Schedule II designation.

I'd rather not take it. It does help me, and I can tell in my daily life, but Ritalin is not a cure.

Even if I don't have anything that needs to be "cured," if you're into the biodiversity paradigm, I would probably prefer a non-chemical approach to keeping me from running off into the weeds.

[MindandSoul]

75. that sounds like a very healthy approach.

[Raksha]

106. They continue taking it in adulthood because they NEED it to function!

They have a very hard time concentrating without it. The hyperactive behavior is generally outgrown at adolescence, but the hyperactive, distractible thought process is a neurological condition and is NOT outgrown. Nor is it a matter of "will power," although certain behavior modification therapies also work--with or without medication.

[LeftishBrit]

11. Agreed.

It is used much less in the UK than the USA, though there are some individuals who do need and get it.

It's a bit like antibiotics I suppose; can be absolutely vital, but have in the past been overprescribed with some very bad consequences.

[Name removed]

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[RaleighNCDUer]

52. Ritalin is a miracle drug for the kids who really need it.

Which is probably one in ten it is prescribed for.

All childhood behavior is the nail, and Ritalin is the hammer.

[proud2BlibKansan]

99. +1

Thank you from a special ed teacher.

[TexasObserver]

114. Wise words. Thanks for saying them.

It's the overprescription of it or the de facto prescribing of it by school employees with which I disagree. Suggest it? Sure. Demand it? Not appropriate.

[Thirtieschild]

2. Our son needed Ritalin as a child, needs it as an adult.

With it he can focus. Without it he's all over the place. I wonder if the ones who really need it ever outgrow the need for it.

[Hekate]

51. I don't think my nephew has ever "outgrown" his severe ADHD or his need for medication...

He's extremely bright, but unable to maintain the focus to graduate from college. Naturally when he dropped out of college at 20, he was no longer on his parents' medical plan, so... a lot of potential is being lost.

Goodness, there are some ill-informed and judgmental people drawn to this OP.

Hekate

[Grand Taurean]

3. I'm tired of it too.

[TexasObserver]

4. recommend

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Yep -- these good folks

http://cchr.org">Citizens Commission for Human Rights

And be sure to check out http://www.cchr.org/#/museum/intro">The Psychiatry Museum of Death. It'll SHOCK you!

--d!

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. Good Folks? A Scientology propaganda web site isn't good, IMHO

I don't think Scientology has any validity as a source for anything other than propaganda.

http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/realestate.php?address_id=28

[TheWraith]

25. I think Dogmudgeon was being sarcastic.

But yes, information from Scientology should be treated like getting information from the Washington Times. Or the Weekly World News.

[Name removed]

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[Dogmudgeon]

119. Absolutely right

It was, in fact, sarcasm, and the post to which I responded is EXACTLY what the CCHR/CoS exploits.

They go after people who are "fed up", frightened, and cynical about medicine. When a person can no longer think clearly about drug issues, the "cylontologists" swoop in.

I maintain that we need more education about pharmacy, not more attitude -- and certainly NOT the CCHR.

--d!
With my apologies to Daniel and Zoe Graystone.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

62. bull shit ad hominem fallacy

How the C.O.S. feels about the issue of over-prescription of drugs to children has NO IMPACT on the reality of the situation. NONE.

That type of slime is easy to spread but incredibly dishonest.

[Dogmudgeon]

118. Such anger!

I never thought that marijuana made its fans hostile and short-tempered.

I posted the CCHR/CoS link because it matched the hand-wringing, uncritical rhetoric of the post. Taking an emotionalizing approach to drug use leads to stupidity and promotes the same abuse that post decried. And the CCHR/CoS exploits that.

If, instead of Ritalin, s/he had said that about marijuana, how would you have felt?

--d!

[Taitertots]

6. Because drugging them is easier than parenting

[Name removed]

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[TlalocW]

7. I think it has been over-prescribed

But I also think that drug companies are pushing (and consumers are also buying) a lot of needless medication. I honestly didn't know that restless leg syndrome was a big enough plague on mankind to warrant a pill to correct it. There was another pill to help grow eyelashes longer. It's just ridiculous. And everything they're supposedly treating sounds better to suffer than the side-effects of the medicine which range from bleeding from every bodily orifice to severe mood swings after consuming McDonalds Happy Meals for all I know (considering how fast and low they read the possible side effects).

TlalocW

[laughingliberal]

24. Just a little information

I have had many patients and several family members who have restless leg syndrome. Their lives are miserable as they can not sleep because of it and many can not even sit in their chairs and relax without the symptoms starting up. My brother in law suffered with it for years until a doctor prescribed a Parkinson's medication which has shown results with this for him. I believe he got the first full night's sleep he'd had in 10 years. It was a Godsend for him.

As for the eyelash medication, it is the result of a medication which was being used to treat Glaucoma. It was noticed that a side effect of the medication was people grew longer, thicker, darker lashes with it. This led to developing a form of the drug to market for this purpose. Not a necessity, certainly, but it's not as if they set out to develop a drug for the purpose of enhancing eyelashes. This is, btw, the same way Zyban came to be developed for smoking cessation. The anti-depressant, Wellbutrin, was being given to people for depression. It was noticed that a significant number of those on the drug quit smoking. This led to studying the reason for its effectiveness for smoking cessation as opposed to other anti-depressants. The knowledge gained from that has allowed the medical community (those who really care) to much more fully understand the underlying issues with hard core smokers who have been unable to quit with the usual methods. In turn it has also shed light on the problems of addiction in general which has now led to several other products that seem to have helped some addicts in their quest for recovery.

I've been ADD all my life but, without the hyperactivity component, I went undiagnosed until the age of 15. It was assumed I just didn't care or want to do my school work as testing had proven an intellect way above average. At 15 a doctor noticed the symptoms while listening to me talk about my issues with school work and prescribed Ritalin. It was a miracle in my life. And, in those days, McDonalds had hamburgers, cheeseburgers, fries, and shakes and we got to have them as a treat maybe every 2 or 3 months.

No doubt there are some doctors who overprescribe and no doubt there are flaws in the approval systems for medications that allow some significant side effects to slip through. But there really are some kids with ADD and ADHD and there really are some clinically depressed people. With proper diagnosis many of the medications available for them have allowed those who would otherwise have lived on the fringes to join the mainstream and participate more fully in their lives.

[anigbrowl]

36. High five

I was well into adulthood before being willing to try any psychiatric help for the various difficulties I was having, and went for many more years without any great degree of progress thanks to a generalized distrust of managed pharmaceutical approaches before accepting they could play an effective role as part of an overall strategy - one which requires a degree of persistence to put up with the unavoidable trial and error of addressing a very complex problem.

I can't get those years back, but I can save myself and perhaps others from going down a variety of wasteful and frequently dangerous blind alleys by addressing the topic on the merits rather than buying into poorly-informed reflexive attitudes.

[Tailormyst]

8. Some kids really need it

I did and I still do ( except for the no insurnce cant get treated part) and started on Ritilin way before most people ever heard of it.

[Fumesucker]

10. If the child doesn't have ADHD Ritalin makes them *worse* not better..

Ritalin is a speed similar to meth, give it to a child that's not ADHD and they'll be bouncing of the walls, ceiling and probably out the damn window. On the other hand if you give it to a child that has ADHD it calms them down.

[LeftishBrit]

15. Very true.

Ritalin is a form of amphetamine, and can *increase* hyperactive behaviour if given to a child who doesn't need it. (Which, if the parents are unaware of this fact, may lead to the child being given even more Ritalin.)

[gkhouston]

19. +1. Our neighbors have 3 kids. One of them is ADHD. Ritalin has made an amazing

difference in her life. She's more like her siblings -- active, but able to focus her thoughts and energies when needed. And she seems a lot happier.

[Name removed]

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[proteus_lives]

53. In my school days kids snorted it.

The kids who had scripts for it sold it and other people use it as a party drug.

[Name removed]

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[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. I'm more annoyed by the kneejerk complaints about ritalin.

Usually by people who know little or nothing about it.

[conscious evolution]

13. I'm more fed up with the HFCS culture.

Get rid of that crap and I would not be surprised if ADD rates plummetted.

[Grand Taurean]

17. Certainly it will.

I only use natural sugar.

[Tailormyst]

20. Maybe just those who really don't have it.

In the 70's my parents tried a diet based solution for hyperactivity (now known as adhd) Which removed all preservative, colors, dyes, additives etc. After a year the only result was my feeling even more "different" then everyone else, then I already did. Going to your best friend's birthday and having to bring your own piece of cake is horrifying to a 4rd grader.... Or not being able to join in during school parties,ugh.

For those kids who don't have it , I bet not only would their behavior improve but also their wieghts. HFCS... horrible stuff.

[laughingliberal]

44. I don't know about that but I do know I was diagnosed with ADD in 1970 at 15

and I don't think there was HFCS around much back then. I'm no fan of HFCS but I don't think it's the underlying reason for ADD or ADHD.

[RaleighNCDUer]

59. I didn't think "ADD" existed back then - it was called Adolescent

Hyperactivity Disorder, among other things (didn't think it affected kids before puberty, or something). As I remember it, ADD and ADHD were coined in the late 70s.

Of course the symptoms have always existed - I think (though never diagnosed) I was ADD - I was a dreamy kid, totally unfocused normally but occasionally hyper-focused. My teachers and counselors just thought I was lazy because i didn't do homework - I always figured why bother with pages of math problems when I could just look at the problem and know the answer?

But when I was a kid there was always one, maybe two in a class like that - not a half-dozen or more like today. I don't know if it is HFCS or some other environmental factor, but something made it a lot worse between 20-30 years ago.

[laughingliberal]

69. I believe the term used back then was often "hyperkinetic"

Your history sounds a lot like mine. I was known, from testing, to be mega intelligent but was always told I wasn't 'applying myself.' Spent most of the school day staring out the window. Made good grades because I absorb information almost by osmosis and had excellent recall so I tested well, always. But I wouldn't do my homework. Or anything that bored me. And handwriting anything is still anathema to me. (Thank goodness for computers). Not sure how my doctor picked up on it as I was not "hyper" but he knew something and got me on medications.

I know I was seeing an expert in the field here a few years back (neuro-psych doc) who was once the head of the neuro-psych department for the VA. He believes it is almost always inherited and, sure enough, upon examining it, it became apparent my mother had it, too. Explained a lot about her that had been baffling previously. Some of the increase is, likely, due to increased awareness.

Some conditions have similar symptoms. PTSD often mimics ADD. Other conditions which have been known to mimic it are Gulf War Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. Neuro toxins such as sarin gas produces similar symptoms. Adults with no history which supports having it as children do not develop it later. I had one friend who was diagnosed ADD upon returning from the Gulf. After talking with her, it was apparent she did not have it prior to going overseas. She went back to the docs at VA and hammered on it until they, finally, settled on it being part of her Gulf War Syndrome.

I'm not sure what the increased diagnoses among children is due to but if it were HFCS, almost all would have it these days. Environmental toxins, I can believe. It is important that health care practitioners are meticulous in their diagnostic techniques. One thing, though, about the Ritalin thing is it will not improve concentration or hyperactivity in children who are not ADD or ADHD. So, if they are starting a child on it and then a couple of more drugs if that doesn't work, and not seeing improvement, they need to look further for the problem.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. And you'd be wrong

I was diagnosed at first AND PUT ON RITALIN at 12...

It was new, as in recently classified.

OF course necessary disclaimer, this was not in the US before you say it was because it was the fad diagnosis. For god sakes my mom was told for what it was, aka I had problems focusing, which I still do. But not WHY exactly.

By the way, I give a kid that DOES NOT need any of these versions of speed... it will well speed them up. Here is the effect coffee has on me. I can sleep like a baby AFTER a full pot of it. Ah the calming effect... Ritalin did the same by the way and quieted the look shiny... that made me go in twenty thousand directions.

Now I got a definite diagnosis AS AN ADULT at 27. I took drugs for six months and went through a slew of behavior education. It is MY choice to just stick to coffee, but coffee works for me MOSTLY. Yes there are days I MISS the ritalin.

[trotsky]

102. Fuck yeah!

HFCS gave me an ingrown toenail and turned my wife into a newt!

.
.
.
.

Ok, she got better!

[DevonRex]

16. That's a pretty broad brush there. Some kids need it. nt

[blue neen]

18. No.

In some cases, it can be a godsend. Yes, it can be over-prescribed, as are other drugs like antibiotics.

[EFerrari]

22. Yeah, much better for those kids who need it to self medicate with meth.

[anigbrowl]

23. Ritalin user here

I'm in early middle age and find it quite helpful. My mind is no less my own, but easier to operate, for want of a better word. If you don't have ADD or a similar condition, it's hard to describe how much emotional and intellectual energy is wasted trying to cope with distractions from both within and without. Magic bullet? Definitely not! Chemical straitjacket? Also definitely not.

You are quite right about ritalin vs. Marijuana. In fact, I'm doing some part-time advocacy on behalf of a marijuana dispensary that's trying to open up in my neighborhood and facing a lot of ignorant conservative opposition. The dispensary proposes very strict controls on admittance and dispensation of marijuana, whereas I can go to a pharmacy and obtain ritalin - also a controlled substance, and one with a known potential and market for abuse as a recreational or utilitarian drug (by which I mean people who want to cram for an exam or similar) - without even showing my photo ID. For all the people at the pharmacy chain know, I might have stolen the wallet and found the Rx in it. Sure, they call my doctor to confirm but I rather doubt they rewind the security cameras and describe my appearance to him.

So the double standard in the sale and use of pharmaceuticals vs. folk remedies or recreation use of marijuana, a very safe drug by any reasonable standard is bad. But so is the attitude that a pharmaceutical product which really helps some people is nothing more than an instrument of social repression. I wish I had had access to it earlier, and that the complex issues of mental health - with fear of both illness and psychiatry - were not approached so simplistically.

[bluethruandthru]

27. Tom Cruise? Is that you? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Shame on me, I am ADDICTED to my coffee, which happens to be

my cheap form of speed.

Do you know why coffee works? For that matter do you know why Ritalin works? You should do some reading.

And shame on you... ADD and other high functioning level Autism disorders are REAL medical conditions.

[Lucy Goosey]

70. "ADD and other high functioning level Autism disorders"...

Is ADD on the Autism spectrum? I find that a fascinating idea. I'm was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, but my sister has long been convinced that I have high-functioning Autism, because I found it difficult to learn social skills that came naturally to others, and I am prone to sensory overload, and I get obsessed with the things I'm interested in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. It is the new thinking

I heard it on NPR the other day... but that is the new thinking. It is part of the spectrum, which would explain why a kid with ADHD may have a few problems making friends, and why the kid with Aspergers may be a few problems keeping his or her mind on a project.

:-)

When I heard it I went AHA! that makes sense!

Oh and waiting for the coffee to ahem kick in... before I start doing some serious work. IT usually takes half a large coffee and ten minutes.

[lazarus]

121. they're finally catching on, then

I've been saying we're on the autism spectrum for 5 or 10 years now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Yeha but one thing is what you and I observe

in the wild, and another what they have to actually document...

Pesky research I know...

:-)

[Odin2005]

138. Could you find me that story, Nadin? I would like to listen to it!

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. Here is one story

my addled brain cannot do search right today...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123527833

[Odin2005]

142. Thanks!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

151. woa! I'd been wondering about possible ADD/Autism connections

but never heard actual experts were asking the same thing!

I remember thinking as a kid...maybe 15 -- 17ish?...that I wondered if I was Autistic....but I'd never heard of a spectrum and I knew I wasn't like the Autism cases I'd read about, and ADD didn't "exist" yet, so I tossed that thought.....

weird

[county worker]

32. I take a form of Ritalin, I wish I had it as a kid.

There is no one size fits all in this argument. I have been greatly helped in life by prescription drugs. I am a normal person with them. I have had a rough life until I got professional help. It is my belief that opinion like the op is hurting people because it is very much like the lies the right tells about health care reform. People who could have a better life may not because of the stigma mental health treatment gets from posts like these.

[udbcrzy2]

33. Some kids are better that way

Adults need meds too. Non-believers probably just haven't been diagnosed yet.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

34. Goddammit, I'm 52, finally found out I have ADD 3 years ago.

Which is a good thing, because I was a hair away from suicide. Thinking you're just a loser, constantly being overwhelmed, desperately clinging to anyone who might be able to handle life for you (guess how well that works.... you get fleeced a lot...), and NOT KNOWING WHAT"S WRONG.....


If only I knew, if only there had been some help for me as a kid, I might have been able to reach my potential. I really have to try not to think of the years wasted and the pain of hating yourself, because it makes me really mad....

sorry to blow a gasket here; weird, I was just in an office chit chat about this!!

[anigbrowl]

42. I know just how you feel

And I came to the conclusion some time ago that people who exhibit prejudice about the solution to a mental problem are often just restating prejudice about the problem itself in different terms, whether they realize it or not.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

144. yeah, unless we educate ourselves, we all tend to respond

based on received "wisdom". Emphasis on 'dum'. nyuk nyuk nyuk :P

[LWolf]

43. My mom says the same thing.

A life-time of low self-esteem, of trying to defend yourself from people who are just frustrated with you...

Including me, her daughter. I went through a couple of decades of guilt, because more than a few hours at a time with her and I was ready to scream. It was hard, because she's my mom and I always, no matter what, loved her, but it was so hard to be around her.

Finally, the professional kicked in and the frustrated daughter stepped back. When I looked at her with my "teacher" hat on, and reviewed everything I knew about her life, it was so obvious that I couldn't believe it took me that long to figure it out. I gently suggested that she look into it, and then never mentioned it again. A year later, she thanked me; she thought about it, denied it, avoided it, and finally went to a doctor. When she experienced, with her prescription, gaining some control over her life, she was devastated by what she saw as the wasted lifetime of lost opportunities behind her. She also suffered from major bouts of depression, and thoughts of suicide, over the years.

It also helped to heal our relationship, because I could finally see HER through the chaos, realize that it wasn't her fault, she wasn't just a major pain in the ass, and that she had really done a superb job of coping all those years.

She was in her early 60s. These days, it's my job to support her; to point out her strengths and everything she does well (there are a lot of those;) to make sure she feels my support the way she felt my frustration in the past. To help ease the self-blame she still engages in over the chaos our lives were when I was growing up, and everything she did "wrong."

:hug:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

143. Wish your mom found out earlier too --

on the other hand, you have a good perspective, from the outside, on what the problem is like. Often, the outside perspective can offer understanding that the inside perspective can't.

"When she experienced, with her prescription, gaining some control over her life, she was devastated by what she saw as the wasted lifetime of lost opportunities behind her." ---- yeah. I know. Oh how I know....... I'm on Strattera, on the highest dosage allowed. (She said with some perverse pride :P )

I would love to know more about your mom and her experience!

I remember my first experience of realizing the meds were starting to kick in, at age 50 I think: vacuuming one small room (just vacuuming--no additional tidying) and taking a break for a drink of water. I went back to finish and then put the vacuum away (woa! two BIG firsts!) and realized I did ALL THAT in one hour!

And didn't find myself freaking out, paralyzed and crying on the couch at the end of the weekend, my brain on fire with all the reasons I'm doomed---- or in another part of town hanging out in a bookstore with no idea what led me there---- or after I got a computer, suddenly realizing I'm online and have been for the last 23 hours----- or curled under the covers in bed on Monday morning, wondering how I was going to make it in to work and look normal. Meanwhile, the vacuum still sitting in the doorway of the small unvacuumed room.

Fighting the same very trivial battles over and over again, and failing; beating myself to a bloody pulp to try and regularly wash a dish or pay a bill, eaten up with thinking if I could just learn how to handle being grown-up, things would be different.....

Out in the world, I was just a goofy flake, mugging and clowning compulsively. And needy. Very very needy for affection.

I've had more than my fair share of other traumatic crap too, stuff that's made friends and therapists cry..( cue violins now, please :nopity: ) But the "O!!-Woe-is-me" effect that I now feel is my biggest struggle to beat is having gone so long being SOOOOOOO disabled, with no idea. Now at my age, feeling I can never catch up to where my peers are. Although one giant benefit in my life was to have somehow created the fortune to find a job, MANY years ago when I was barely functional, that capitalizes on my intelligence and creativity while requiring little to no paperwork or other, similar focused responsibility (if I had those abilities---wow! but, I digress... )

Anyway.....somehow I managed to not get fired..... and being known as one of the most talented there, even though before meds I had the attention span of a gnat, has given me some measure of self-respect.

All the other bigbaddies that I have had to face and which took years to recover from masked the ADD problem. It wasn't until I'd beaten a long list of other issues that I could SEE that there was something else underlying all of it.

Forging on all that time and winning over all that is itself an impressive accomplishment, or should be, though it often doesn't feel that way when it feels like you worked that hard just to make it to 'low end of average' in the eyes of The World....

[LWolf]

147. That sounds so familiar.

:hug:

My mom is a brilliant woman who carried a lot of baggage having nothing to do with ADD behind her. She "covered" by declaring herself a "free spirit," and a "gypsy."

Those were her reasons for changing jobs and moving every year. She was a hard-core caffeine addict...self-medicating, although she didn't know it. Eventually she chose to be self-employed, and to do bookkeeping and administrative jobs that allowed her to choose her own schedule, which usually meant working through the night after everyone else went home. Even when, at the age of 50, she was able to buy her own home instead of rent, she ended up renting it out after a few years so that she could keep moving. Her current house is where she finally was diagnosed and started taking meds; she's been there 11 years, longer than any other place in her adult life.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

149. Wow! Meds are amazing, aren't they?

I'm guessing moving was her response to anxiety? In part, anyway? I dunno, that's a big guess, but I know terrible anxiety is a part of ADD. What a surprise, that being unable to function in a world that punishes you for the inability should result in horrendous anxiety....

For me, moving would be anxiety producing, and any kind of administrative or bookkeeping would be absolutely paralyzing. It's so weird how individuals function....

thanks for the :hug:!! :hug: backatcha :)

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[Lucy Goosey]

73. That all sounds very familiar - I was diagnosed at age 32...

I tried Ritalin, but I found the anxiety and heart palpitations it caused were too much to take - I'm prone to anxiety, though, and any drug that lists anxiety as a potential side effect affects me that way. It clearly helps some people, and I wouldn't judge anyone for using it if their doctor prescribed it.

I'm working with a therapist on time management and self-esteem, and that's made all the difference in the world. Like a lot of people who aren't diagnosed until well into adulthood, I have been beating myself up for years for not living up to my potential, and my self esteem has suffered.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

145. Glad to hear you've got the answer now!

I take Strattera which is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, rather than a stimulant. It is MARVELOUS!

I wouldn't mind having a coach now, but out where I live, there is NUTHIN. So I use my Buddhist practice of chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, which is very energizing for me (energy is very necessary to keep on fighting to win over your struggles) and provides a time to focus intent, bring up the fighting spirit from inside.

[Raksha]

107. Omigod Blanche, I can SO relate to what you said!

But I've already been on one major rant on this thread today and don't have the energy for another one right now, so I'll just post the link to my blog...
www.rakshaspersonalblog.blogspot.com

The ADD-relevant posts are the first two, "Coyote in my DNA" parts 1 and 2.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

146. haa! I've got to get moving--I've just spent too long replying to another reply here

with a bit of my life story.... Now I've got to get my ass in gear to get to work....

Definitely intend to check your blog later!!!

keep in touch! :)

[krabigirl]

35. Yes, I find it laughable that parents freak out over weed but have no problem with these psych meds.

very scary

[Maru Kitteh]

37. It's being used as a substitute for active parenting and discipline.

[anigbrowl]

40. I had so much active parenting and discipline that it landed me in hospital on several occasions

I've made my peace with that because I've learned that ignorance, fear and frustration can warp even the best of intentions...but that experience is the reason I suggest you keep your bullshit stereotypes to yourself.

[Maru Kitteh]

71. No. What you had was abuse. There's a huge difference.

[anigbrowl]

77. ...which judgment is about as valuable as your medical opinion, ie not at all.

If you had made some sort of cogent argument for your original statement and backed it up with something, I might disagree with it but would do so with respect for the knowledge and insight with which you made it. But since you're adding exactly zero new information to the discussion beyond stating your general attitude, it's just so much ego-driven BS.

What you are doing is the very definition of stereotyping - expressing sweeping conclusions about serious matters despite an almost total lack of information. It's probably pointless to request that you stop, so I am not going to waste any more of my own time on the attempt.

[Hannah Bell]

98. "if it puts you in the hospital it's abuse" = opinion? if "parenting" injures a kid seriously

enough to put him in the hospital, i'd say that's no longer mere "opinion". it's material fact.

[anigbrowl]

105. Facts divorced from context are apt to confuse

I took issue with MK's original statement, but have other issues with the response to the rebuttal. It's my fault insofar as I didn't provide the full context for that remark, which would require pages, but in both cases I think the definitive one-line conclusions speak overconfidence in one's own opinions.

It's not Maru Kitteh's fault for not knowing exactly what I'm talking about, but I've heard those same kinds of arguments so many times over the years that I have frankly lost patience with them. Unqualified opinions (ie those stated shallowly as if they were fact, rather than those expressed without an educational qualification) do little to advance debate.

[Hannah Bell]

122. i can't imagine any circumstances where parental discipline leading to repeated trips to hospital

needs substantial qualification.

maybe i'm unimaginative.

[JoeyT]

120. It's still a valid response

to any variant on the dumbass argument that I heard so much growing up. "There ain't no ADD, there's just kids that need an asswhoopin."

Edited to add: I realize the poster probably wasn't implying beating the kids would help, but it's still on the "discipline instead of drug" scale that's been proven ineffective time and time again.

[proteus_lives]

56. +1000

I've seen it in my own family.

[HERVEPA]

66. Ignorance is bliss, eh?

[madmom]

38. I have a step-grand daughter, who was not doing well in school at all. She moved

here to live with her mother. They decided to test her to see if they could find out why she was doing so poorly. First thing her teacher wanted to do was have her put on ritalin. I objected fiercely because a teacher has not right or ability to diagnose this. Sure enough she didn't have a ADD problem. Her problem was...she couldn't read at her grade level. The previous school just kept passing her on to the next grade (NCLB?) Once they put her in appropriate classes she is doing fine, with out meds!

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Duh that is why you test

these drugs are not candy after all.

[madmom]

60. My point exactly, in case you didn't see it I also said her teachers wanted to put her on

ritalin first thing. She was not diagnosed or even tested. But they thought they knew what was best for a child who was new to them, because apparently she fit the pattern. They didn't want to go through the ordeal of all the paper work and testing, this was from their mouth. I'm not generally down on teachers but there are SOME out there that deserve to be fired.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Schedule One Drug

I can't put myself on it, and lord knows I have a diagnosis.

That I hate to say it, are ignorant teachers.

When I was teaching Sunday School I did have a kid who WAS ADHD... we prodded the family into testing... and thankfully, for his sake, they did. We got it why he was not medicated on Sundays... many kids take a day or two off, but that gentle prodding did all the difference in his life.

[Pithlet]

127. Yep, schedule one, which makes it a pain in the rear because doctors can't just refill them.

As I'm sure you already know, but I'm betting others in this thread may not :) There's no calling in your refill when you run out like there is with meds like birth control pills or blood pressure meds. It's a royal pain in the ass, and you have to be motivated by a real need. That's why I laugh at this notion that it's just lazy parents, or parents who are following some fad. Please.

[jmowreader]

140. It is a Schedule II drug NOT a Schedule I drug!

Schedule I drugs (heroin, marijuana) are Schedule I drugs--high risk of abuse, no accepted medical use--and are illegal under all circumstances. Ritalin is a Schedule II drug--accepted medical use, high potential for abuse.

[LWolf]

39. That's way too simplistic for a yes or no answer.

I'd like to find the source/s of adhd and address them. I'd like to set up homes and classrooms to reduce the excess stimulation that sets these kids up for failure. I'm fed up with people who aren't willing to do those things.

Do you live with an excessively impulsive, distracted kid?

Are you aware of the numerous negative side effects of excessive impulsivity, hyperactivity, and inability to focus?

Are you aware that I'm not talking about the average active, squirmy, kid, but those who are on the extreme end of that continuum, and that the number of those children seem to be increasing?

Have you tried to manage any in a classroom of 30+ students who take up enough space that walking around in the room is difficult when everyone is there? Have you lobbied for class-size reduction? For enlarging the actual square feet in a classroom?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[proteus_lives]

47. I am.

My sister has had my nephew on it since he was 7-8. I fear it's ruined him.

If I ever have kids, it will be a cold day in hell before I drug them up.

[pitohui]

50. well it frustrates me that i'm competing w. kids who already have the advantage of youth

ritalin is a performance-enhancing drug, period, the person on ritalin or adderal is going to get more done than i am, period, and they are likely to be able to concentrate better and respond more quickly to intellectual challenges

alas, i can't turn back the clock and insist that they stop taking a relatively safe pill that allows them to achieve as well or better than i can

how much of this anger at the ritalin culture is anger that we're not daring enough or we're too cheap to try to enhance our own intelligence and concentration? while others are surging ahead into the new century?

i could go to the doc and present w. the well known symptoms of adult attention deficit disorder and get an Rx too, obv. i don't care enough to spend the $$ to do so, it seems easier to sit around and talk shit abt those who do care enough to try to use tech to improve themselves

is the fault w. ritalin culture or w. myself?

marijuana doesn't prepare a person for a competitive world, and i have no interest in it one way or another, if you're sick and need medical marijuana, sure, go for it, but if you're using marijuana you're not a competitor and i'm just not worried about competing with you, you've already put a big weight on your own ankle

as for parents who get their kids on ritalin, they want their kids to be winners, not losers or slackers, is that so terrible?

note-- "ritalin culture" is not the same as just people who are taking ritalin prescribed by their doctor for a known medical condition, it would also in my humble opinion include those who are taking it to increase intelligence, concentration, etc. -- i'm not sure why the person who is taking ritalin for a recognized medical reason has the moral high ground over the person who is taking it because they want to expand their mind and improve their life, even though, over the years, taking a drug to voluntarily improve yourself seems to be much frowned on by a judgmental society...

[anigbrowl]

63. If you actually require it for medical reasons it's not very expensive

Generics are about $1.25/day; for some people that might be offset by decreased consumption of cigarettes or coffee directed to the same end.

[Hannah Bell]

123. competing -- for what? enjoy your heart failure.

[pitohui]

131. losers and slackers have heart failure too

anti-drug hysteria scare tactics don't particularly interest me

[rexy]

133. plenty of college students take these drugs.

It does give a competitive edge.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

61. Read "Our Daily Meds" by Melody Petersen

that should really piss you off!

[Odin2005]

64. Some of us actually need it, you know.

Yes, I do think it's over-prescribed, though.

[pitohui]

132. of course, some need it, and some simply gain help from it but don't "need" it

from a philosophical standpoint, there is nothing interesting to be said abt people who need a drug, i would hope we can ALL agree that if you NEED something and we have the med tech to give it to you, then you should have it

for me, the more interesting topic isn't ritalin but, as the person put it, ritalin CULTURE -- the people who are willing to take risk to improve their minds and their performance -- i cannot understand how it can be wrong to allow those people to make that choice but as the whole steroid hysteria has proven, many people DO think it's wrong to use medical technology to improve your life and your success if there is any little "risk"

why can't people decide for themselves (or their own children) if they want to take that risk?

that's an interesting debate, scientologists or their stooges claiming that no drug does anyone any good or does anything positive to the mind ever is not an interesting debate

if it's over-prescribed, it's surely because people are demanding the prescriptions for themselves and/or their children -- and the reason they demand it is because they see it working or at least feel that it's working FOR THEM even if onlooker is standing about saying, "c'mon, ya don't need that, ya just think ya do"

[woo me with science]

65. I think the research supporting use of Ritalin in kids with ADHD

is a hell of a lot stronger and more convincing than the research on use of antidepressants in kids. Frankly, the latter makes me a lot more nervous.

[EFerrari]

108. Agreed. n/t

[Pithlet]

68. An author who set out to write a book exposing evidence supporting that very attitude

ended up coming to a very different conclusion:

http://jezebel.com/5493574/these-parents-were-trying-to-keep-their-kids-alive-medication-psychiatry-and-kids-with-issues

"Then Warner started talking to parents. And what she found was not status-obsessed climbers seeking to create designer children, but frightened and reluctant people just trying to help their kids lead normal lives. She heard the story of a girl whose anxiety made her rub her skin off, so "she'd sit at the dining table crying for hours on end, blood coming through her socks." Of a boy who chased his babysitters with knives. Of another boy with separation anxiety who said, "Mommy, you don't understand. If I don't wear the other shoes, you're going to die today." Warner writes, "the parents I spoke with who ultimately decided to take their children in for treatment weren't looking at 'normal' behavior — temper tantrums, less-than-optimal grades. <...> These parents were trying to keep their kids at home. And in school. <...> In some cases, these parents were trying to keep their kids alive."

Warner had heard of parents who jumped to medicate their children at the slightest setback, but she couldn't find any of them — and when she talked to people who had criticized such parents in print, they couldn't point to any either. In fact, what she found was that children were drastically undertreated — "approximately 70% of children and teens who need mental health treatment don't receive any services at all." So what's with the prevailing wisdom that kids today are walking pharmacies and DSMs? Warner points the finger at two culprits: pharmaceutical companies, and our cultural mistrust of psychiatry."

[nemo137]

72. Ah! thank you

I was just looking for that link to post here.

[Hannah Bell]

76. The fact that such drugs are given more often the lower you move down the economic

ladder says otherwise.

She couldn't find a *single* case? Gee, I've known two just in passing.

Astroturf lit.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[anigbrowl]

81. ...which might equally mean that untreated illness is a causal factor of poverty.

In my individual case, the fact is that I would be economically better off if I did not have a problem which required treatment, and would probably be better off if I had had access to effective treatment earlier. Put another way, my previous ignorance of how to deal with ADD has been a greater factor in my personal economic situation than any hypothetical attempt to drug me into political incapacity.

[Hannah Bell]

84. lol. sure, & adhd for some unknown reason is more prevalent in poor communities.

it must be genetic, right?

[laughingliberal]

91. It generally is genetic

So much so that an expert I was treated by will always interview parents of children he is testing for symptoms and always interviews adults extensively about symptoms they remember their parents having.

[Hannah Bell]

124. please show me some documentation. nothing personal, but i don't know of any

such research.

[anigbrowl]

93. As I said, ADHD is not exactly conducive to financial success

It may well be genetic, and IF that is the case then such prevalence is entirely possible.

You are assuming that everyone starts out with more or less similar genetics and that all economic disparities are the result of deliberate imposition. But if a genetic disparity can influence one's economic situation (eg the inability to perform and thus earn money consistently even when the work involves tedium or requires considerable patience) then it would be logical to expect higher incidences of it in poorer communities.

I don't know whether it's a function of genetics or upbringing. However, neither do you.

[laughingliberal]

89. There might, actually, be a point to that.

A neuro-psych doctor I was treated by some years back believes ADD/ADHD is always inherited. If he finds no evidence from there is a parent with symptoms he will look further for a diagnosis. Almost everyone I know with the diagnosis, if asked which of their parents had it, will stop, think, and then say, "Oh, my mother! That's what was wrong with her!" or "My father! No wonder he always had such trouble with... "

So, if we are looking at kids born to parents who are in financial difficulty, we may very well be seeing parents who have undiagnosed ADD/ADHD. I know it's affected my ability to function as well as I could have in pursuing career goals or managing money or any number of things.

[Raksha]

113. Yup, always inherited. I can't think of a single person

in my immediate family who did NOT have ADD/ADHD. That's with 20/20 hindsight, of course. As I said in another post downthread, I didn't realize myself I had it until I was 57 years old.

And I can also vouch for the fact that in many cases--mine, for example--a lifetime of undiagnosed and untreated ADD is a major cause of poverty. But that isn't always the case. ADDers are often very intelligent and gifted in other ways, and often have a great deal of drive and creativity. If they can somehow manage to keep their distractibility in check, they can often be highly successful entrepreneurs. But that depends a great deal on environment, and on whether you can manage to get through childhood and adolescence with some minimal degree of self-esteem intact. I didn't. But other ADDers of my acquaintance did.

The "gift/curse debate" is a perpetual hot-button topic in the ADD community (and there is one).

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

78. all those poor undrugged children!

Quick, Ritalin will save them! 70% of children who need drugs aren't getting them! They are "drastically under treated"!

Once again, read Melody Petersen's "Our Daily Meds" for an expose of this nonsense, or watch her with Bill Moyers here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyYYTXz5IrM

[Pithlet]

80. Read my other post I just posted.

It's bullshit. You think you know it all. But you weren't in the doctors office vists all those times. So you don't know shit.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

82. you do realize

that proper prescription of a drug in your case has no bearing on the issue of whether or not it is over-prescribed in a larger sense? You are reacting personally to an issue that is larger than you and is not directly dependent on your personal experience.

Both options can be true: the drugs are needed in some cases and are drastically over-prescribed in the culture. Your over-the-top hysterical posts have nothing to do with the larger issue.

[Pithlet]

86. Oh, but it does.

This attitude affects me. It affects me all the time. The idea that we all just cram unneeded pills down our children's gullets because we can't be bothered to parent them or our notions of how children' are supposed to behave are skewed is prevalent and it is more than just bothersome. I do take it personally. And no, it's no comfort when someone with that attitude says "Well, your case maybe be necessary, but..." It's no comfort. As long as people think that way, it makes my life miserable. That's why I take it personal, and why I fight this notion wherever I see it.

[Hannah Bell]

88. you'd better stop frequenting discussion boards if your goal is to never hear anything that

contradicts your own opinions.

[Pithlet]

90. Empathy is strong with you, isn't it? n/t

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pithlet]

97. You know what? Yeah, I do. If I do know something about a person's situation?

I do take it into consideration. Yeah, I had a little meltdown here. If the shoe had been on the other foot, I would have backed down. And I have done so, in the past. I'm done with you, here.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

109. "affecting" you is not the issue

Sigh....

[Pithlet]

110. Read the OP again.

Was it a reasoned, rational OP laying why they think these meds were diagnosed. Or was it an attack?

Yes, most times I do keep my mouth shut and say nothing. Sometimes I respond by posting the article I did. And sometimes it just gets to be too much and I lose it. I shouldn't, because it doesn't help (sometimes it gets sighs, like you hand out, for instance). It's hard. Anyone who has a condition that isn't a hard diagnosis, like diabetes or cancer, or cares for someone who does, goes through crap like this. You can sigh at us and tell us it isn't an issue. But it is.

It would be different if it actually was an issue. If I were just some rare anomaly that DU could pity, and it was mostly just a fad diagnosis perpetrated by a bunch of neurotic people scamming a willing flawed medical system and pharma industry. In that case, I'd fight that tooth and nail. I'd do that. If there were any evidence this was the case. But since there isn't, I think this mostly just the usual skepticism of anything that isn't absolutely tangible. It seems to be the fad du jeur to be skeptical of this nowadays.

[trotsky]

103. Thank you for this. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

112. +1

[Pavulon]

83. Its optional. You as a parent can choose to treat your child or not..

you can take them to a psychologist to confirm the diagnosis of a GP and if you do treat them generic Ritalin is dirt cheap. No one makes you medicate your child for add.

[anigbrowl]

95. I see the OP has not bothered to participate in this thread....smells like a hit'n'run to me. nt

[Indy Lurker]

96. Thats right...

End the "Ritalin Culture."

Don't think of it as ADD think of it as multi-tasking!!!

[Odin2005]

135. LOL, I can't multitask WITHOUT Ritalin!

[kimmerspixelated]

100. Absolutely!

There have been numerous studies about the effect of diet upon the brain activity of children. Some kids are more sensitive to junk food and sodas and sugar. Most kids are deficient in some vitamins or another, and the studies I have read said that a diet rich in Omega-3's had a calming effect on the brain activities on kids.

Should kids that are bouncing off the walls and have trouble concentrating be put on drugs? Nope!

They need to have their diets re-examined, and some behavioural modification.

If they are really and truly found to have some mental problem, I would still start out with alternative medicine first.

Ritalin , etc. are hard and serious drugs,NOT without consequences.

Flame if you feel like it. I got most of you shills for Big-Pharma on ignore anyway, so you're just wasting your typing fingers! If you can be civil, that's different. Be my guest!

[Odin2005]

136. "I would still start out with alternative medicine first."

Yeah, I'm sure those quack cures will allow me to multitask. :eyes:

[Mojeoux]

101. I lied to the Nuns and threw my Ritalin away

They said "Oh your so much better behaved dear, now that your on your medication."
I just stopped being so talky to my classroom neighbors.

But when I got older I was automatically repulsed by Meth and Cocaine, so I credit Ritalin for that.

[Raksha]

104. Nope, not in the least. I've never had it and wonder if it would work for me.

I 64 years old and self-diagnosed with ADD. Why am I self-diagnosed? Because when I was growing up in the 1950s and 1960s (I'm a baby boomer), NOBODY ever talked about it. I lived my entire fucking life up until age 57 knowing there was "something wrong with me," something that made me stand out in a negative way so that I became a target for school bullies, but not knowing what it was. And the fucking SHRINKS didn't know either!!! One therapist after another, and none of them had a clue.

Oh yes, and I had one of the famous "fellow travelers" of ADD/ADHD also--panic disorder in my case. I couldn't even get the bastards to prescribe Valium or anything similar for me for THAT! My sister was the one who became addicted to Valium and eventually died of an overdose, but I never abused it. I would take ONE, and if that didn't work I would just tough it out, which I had to do most of the time anyway. Partly because of my ADD, I was a little bit too vehement and defensive when I asked the doctors for it and told them it worked for me. It was my attitude more than anything that led them to believe I was addicted or dependent. Not because I actually was.

Then when I was 57 years old, a book on adult ADD fell into my hands seemingly "by accident" in a library. I only had to read a few pages to recognize myself, to finally learn the name of the nameless curse that had plagued me for my entire life. I have since confirmed and reconfirmed my self-diagnosis in further research and reading on the subject. I was not a hyperactive child, but I fit the profile in every other way.

So why do I not take Ritalin now? I have not yet been officially diagnosed. I'm uninsured and don't have a doctor to evaluate me or prescribe medication for me. Maybe now that the health care reform bill has passed I will qualify for Medicaid (I don't under the current rules) and that situation will change. I don't even know if Ritalin would work for me because I've never taken it.

And you thought YOU were on a rant? Surprise!!! As you see, it still enrages me even to hear about overmedication. For years I wanted to be one of those "overmedicated" people and NEEDED to be one of them--AND I STILL DO!!!

[kimmerspixelated]

130. I still say these cases have to do with vit or min deficiencies.

The body/brain is in imbalance. Have your levels checked first before you go do the hard stuff. Talk to a naturapath, just a suggestion.

[Odin2005]

137. You obviously do not understand what it is like to have Executive System Dsyfunction.

I take a multi-vitamin, it has NO EFFECT on my attention. It is an aspect of my brain I was born with.

[kimmerspixelated]

150. Well, a simple multi vit you may get at a drugstore may be

worthless. WHole food vits-specific to your needs or deficiencies might make the world of difference! Just FYI.;)

[Lyric]

115. I often wonder if people realize that Adderall is amphetamine.

And Ritalin is a drug very similar to amphetamine, with pharmacological effects similar to low doses of cocaine. Would we be as comfortable giving it to our children if we knew those drugs by what they ARE, rather than what their brand names are? I definitely think there are kids who benefit from these medications, but I also believe that they are sometimes prescribed for kids that don't actually need them. My own son's first pediatrician tried to say that he thought LyricKid was ADHD. I left and found another doctor, and LyricKid is just fine; the rambunctiousness of his preschool years settled down on its own, and he's a perfectly normal 10-year-old now.

I just wish doctors would try taking kids OFF these drugs from time to time to check and see if the initial set of behavioral problems have cleared up. I don't see how keeping children on drugs that work like amphetamine and cocaine can be healthy in the long-term. Doesn't it raise the risk of stroke and high blood pressure?

Please don't think I'm bashing people whose kids TRULY need this stuff. I'm not. But I really wish more parents would resist medication a little longer, so their kids have a chance to mature a bit and outgrow these problems on their own. It doesn't ALWAYS happen that way, but it CAN happen. :(

[Pithlet]

116. The people who need them or their caretakers are often very well aware of that, yes.

The problem with your argument is a fundamental misunderstanding of how it truly works. It really doesn't work that way. It isn't "Go do the doctor, get the pill, give to kid, the end". So it wouldn't be a matter of "Just take them off and see how it goes. Because the process itself is just so much more complicated than that. Anyone who's been through it or knows someone who has knows that. It's often multiple visits to even find out what's wrong in the first place. It's often more than one thing. ADHD is the most well known, but sometimes it can be more than eon thing. And then, it's more than just Ritalin. There are whole classes of drugs, sometimes different combinations, and then different dosages. You have to find out what works. That can take a long time, sometimes a year or more. And then that can change over time. IT doesn't stay the same drug or even the same dose. And then again sometimes the child does come off the drug eventually. They don't all stay medicated. Sometimes the doctor indeed says "let's take them off and see how it goes". It's not even all drugs. There's all manner of therapies. Drugs are often only part of it. Having been through this, and knowing so many who have, it's such a long, drawn out, expensive and exhaustive process that I cannot even imagine anyone going through it blithely and in an offhand way because they're a hypochondriac by proxy. Or their child is just extra rambunctious. I just can't imagine it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. And to quote my brother

when one doctor TOOK ME OFF just like that...

IS HE NUTS???? NEXT THING SHE'LL BE SEEING PINK ELEPHANTS!

I didn't... but the point is you just don't do it like that.

:-)

And this guy WAS a psychiatrist...oy

For the record, currently my drug of choice is coffee... that is my speed of choice... but there are days I have considered going back to the psych and seeing 'bout getting back on (insert form of speed here)

Oy the ignorance.

[bluestateguy]

117. Oooooh! You just touched the third rail

nt

[4_TN_TITANS]

128. Excuse me, but some of us adults take it too...

And I wouldn't have to if weed was readily available. Of course I can survive without it, but everything that requires attention and follow through in my life suffers.

[Rage Inc.]

134. Remember that guy on "Fridays?" (For old people like me.)

"Got a problem? Take a PILL!"

Prophetic, don't you think?

[Danger Mouse]

139. Some kids really, really need to be on meds. For those that need it...

it works wonders. Like, miracles. There are situations in which kids are over-medicated, sure. Or kids who don't need meds who are on them. However, that doesn't take away from how vital they are to those that need them.

[diamidue]

148. The question is : Why do kids need it in the first place?

When I was growing up, kids weren't on anti-depressants or attention-deficit drugs; there wasn't the alarming rate of autism. In those last 50 years, sperm counts in healthy men have dropped by more than half. We are so obese and sick. Just throwing more drugs at kids may be a short term fix, but there is something seriously, seriously wrong with the way we are raising children these days that needs to be addressed and fixed. And it won't be, I'm afraid, because there is too much profit to be made in keeping everyone tied to the pharma industry.