Fringe v Fringe

[SoCalDem]

Both parties are said to have "fringe" elements.

Let's examine that fringe a little closer.

The left fringe is always associated with progressive ideas. Progressive is not a "bad" word. I thought America was all about progress.. Most people embrace progress.

To be fair, there are some negatives that can accompany progress, but for the most part we have always been in a progression.. from here to there..from childhood to adulthood.. from apprenticeship to journeyman.etc.

If there is not progression, there is either a static position or regression. That's all there is, folks.

Stasis is not all that great of a goal for the "world leader/bestest country in the whole wide world".

Regression is also not all that great of a goal, if we plan to be an innovative forward-thinking country.

The left fringe is often associated with ideas & goals that are intended to to have an equalizing, uplifting theme..things like:

ecological salvation
educational equality
racial equality
gender equality
paycheck equality
health-care equality
and more..

These ideals only became "fringe" though a deliberate effort. They should be mainstream ideals, but have become little more than talking points and misspelled topics of cardboard signs.

Right wing fringe could just be the opposite of the left, but they are MORE than that. they have moved beyond the yang to our yin. they have "progressed" from benign stasis to toxic regression. A group that clings to the worst ideas, deserves scorn, not praise. Their doggedness may be something they are proud of, but when we look at the ideals they espouse, it's not hard to see just how dangerous these ideas are.

It's almost as if these people (as a group) have made a conscious decision to embrace the things that destroy a nation..

They embrace warlike behavior..personally, as well as nationally
they step away from educational advances

they turn away from science (until someone in their own family gets very ill..then they like those geeky "science-y" doctors)

they wear their ignorance like a luxurious cashmere coat

they are more than willing to gamble with their planet's future if it means they might make a buck or two in their 401-k

they claim righteousness & family values, but can't live up to most of the tenets of either in their personal lives

they prefer to limit wages for poor people, while berating these same people for being poor

they begrudge schools the funding necessary to teach kids, and then complain when children are falling behind

they cloak themselves in the flag & clutch the constitution when they protest others, yet refuse others the same rights

they claim to love Jesus, the Bible, & their churches, but somehow missed the part about generosity of spirit & the "love-thy-neighbor" parts, and feel free to attack-at-will

some of the right- fringe schizophrenically demand that "we" forget all about the Bush-years and all its follies, because "that was then, and this is now", and that was "a long time ago"..and yet they proudly brandish the artifacts of the Confederacy, and still joyfully talk about secession & toss around the hurtful words from that debacle.

they claim to love babies, so much that they want EVERY baby to be born..no matter what..but once born, those babies lose any status, and are expected to thrive with little or no assistance.

Frankly, the people in the "middle", who claim neither fringed-sleeve are complicit because in their lack of choice, they become part of the problem. By not committing to progress and uplifting, they are giving "cover" to the right wing fringe, and are giving them a legitimacy they do not deserve.

The left-fringe is not really "fringe" at all. It's just that the middle has become so muddled, they no longer recognize themselves as participants, and are adrift in a sea of rhetoric that does little more than make them more confused as time goes on.

The far-right would have us believe that the "left" fringe wants to embrace anarchy, communism and or socialism, but that is not true, and they know it, but they love the fear & smear so much they cannot, or will not see the truth. The "right" fringe, for all its bible-worship and science-bashing cannot see that their purported "beliefs" are little more than feudal Darwinism.

I've always approached bold ideas with a "what if" approach, to help me make up my mind.

What IF the far left is correct?

What's the WORST that could happen?

Cleaner air, cleaner water, more trees, more fish in the sea, more critters in what's left of the wilderness, more teachers? are these bad things?

People marrying whomever they want, regardless of the gender of the other person? How does that make things worse for me?

Women paid on par with men? how's that bad? don't the righties ever have daughters? sisters? Moms?

Health-care for every American? do right wingers never get sick? are their children, parents, family members immune from illness? What if a right winger's family member needs medical care during a time when they are not insured? should they just die?

However....

When we look at the ideals that the right-fringe stands for, and use the same "what's the worst that could happen?" approach, there's a whole other "reality" .

Their ideas lack ingenuity, thought or purpose. They are destructive ideals. they HURT people, the national image, the planet.

The saddest part about the whole movement, is that they cannot even own up to their ideals in public.

They welcome with open arms, the "bomb-throwers", the blowhards, the blatant racists, they prop them up, prod them and then when the inevitable happens, many of the leaders scurry like roaches when the light's turned on.. they want the radical ones in their fringe to be bold and to yell out words put to pasture decades ago, to spit on people, to throw money at handicapped people, but when confronted with the fruit of their own poison tree, they feign ignorance & slither under the baseboard.

These are the "brave" stalwarts who are so gung-ho about militancy & who never back down when sending other people's children off to war, but when asked to "man-up" & claim their own, they will not.

Ours is not a jacket with two equally-fringed sleeves..it's a jacket with a left sleeve that is frayed from slashing at it for decades..and the other one with carefully coiffed, pristine fringe... Surely there's a thread somewhere that can be pulled....to shed that right sleeve altogether.

Perhaps it's time to just become a vest.. Don't we all have a "vested" interest in becoming the best we can be?

[kctim]

1. Moderates are not the problem

In fact, they are the ones who keep the fringes in check. For if we did not, the fringes would use govt to force their way of life onto all.

We can never become just a vest because the fringe elements demand it is only they who can define "the best we can be."

[troubledamerican]

5. Lieberman is a moderate

according to all conventional beltway wisdom.

According to the Washington Post's Dana Milbank, "Far Left Fringe" is AFL-CIO & NAACP.

Show me the list of "Fringe Left" in Congress -- two, three names? any? -- and then show me the list of Fringe Right-Wing -- all but two, three names?

[laughingliberal]

9. +1000 nt

[depakid]

10. So called "moderates" are the single biggest problem America has

they blur the distinction between the parties- make certain that only ineffective policies are able to be put in place that rarely ever address the root causes or the underlying issues, while making the Democrats look weak, complicit and inept in the process.

So called "moderates" brought America financial, energy and media deregulation to name only a few examples, and are responsible for preventing responsible health policy from being enacted, leaving Americans with a shell of what it might have had.

Without so called "moderates" mouthing off right wing talking points and clinging to a failed ideology, Americans might actually have a choice beyond tweedledum and tweedledee, and you might have been able to avoid much of the decline that's been taking place over the last 30 years- even as other nations are moving forward.

[SoCalDem]

11. amen.. too many people call themselves moderates

but when they are pressed, they often admit that they don't "follow" politics much, and many times, their knowledge of what's going on, is limited..

Too often, they are the "every-4-years" voters, who choose the "guy with the great-looking hair"..or the one with the pretty-as-a-picture family. They know about policy, based on what they hear on the radio or see on tv, and we all know how dangerous that can be..

Most people would be crushed if their significant other was only "moderately" interested in them:)

[kctim]

12. Excuses

used to justify to oneself how somebody could possibly disagree with their point of views.

People call themselves moderate because they see the importance of keeping individual rights and freedoms intact while striving for good govt.

[kctim]

14. BS

Contrary to what both fringes believe, their personal opinions are NOT the final word on what can be considered success or failure. Especially when the results they seek are NOT the results favored by the majority.

The biggest problem the fringes have with moderates is that we refuse to sit down, shut up and blindly follow them in lockstep. We won't worship god or govt as they dictate and that pisses them off.

[951-Riverside]

2. Can't stand the people but the show is awesome n/t

[SoCalDem]

3. Except that we cannot hold a tribal council & send them home

:)

[WeekendWarrior]

4. I think the thing that is similar to both of the fringes is

the sense of impatience and the complete willingness to sacrifice the best interests of others (and sometimes themselves) for their ideology. There's a kind of nobility there, certainly (at least for the left), but not much of an understanding of reality.

Those who fall in the space between tend to look at the world with a more pragmatic view and understand that patience is a virtue.

[anigbrowl]

8. Agreed 100%. nt

[NeedleCast]

17. Exacactly

[Norrin Radd]

6. kr

Progressives are the true center.

[anigbrowl]

7. 'The left fringe is always associated with progressive ideas.' Um, no.

I've met very authoritarian people who are firmly wedded to left-wing ideas. I doubt that all of them were agent provocateurs. I think right-wingers are more likely to be authoritarian (which is why I lean left) but I dislike authoritarians in general, no matter how convinced they are that their particular views will result in the greater good.

Each person has to make those decisions for themselves. While I feel right-wing views are considerably less good than left as they manifest in our society today, I don't subscribe to your view point and find it rather absolutist. Other people will have different opinions.

[Odin2005]

13. America has no real left, just center-right (Dems) and Fascist (Pukes).

[NNN0LHI]

15. LaRouche cultists are our fringe

And don't think we don't have some of them posting here.

Don

[NeedleCast]

16. I've always used the word fringe no to describe ideals, but the methods of reaching them

Which is to say the fringe of either party is really about the same thing...control. You listed these things:

ecological salvation
educational equality
racial equality
gender equality
paycheck equality
health-care equality


and I support all of them although I'm certainly one of the most centrist people on DU. Further, when describing the right fringe, you list quite a few things that I've seen done on the left fringe as well. To me, the difference between the fringe of both parties and the more mainstream members is this - The mainstream says "I'm right about (x), let me try to convince you why" while the fringe says "I'm right about (x), you're wrong, and either through legislation of violence, I'm going to make you agree with me."

I have friends who are pretty much pure socialists but I don't consider them to be fringe. I consider their political views to be a bit extreme, but again, I think it's a matter of how those views are pursued that draws the line between mainstream and fringe.

[Kitty Herder]

18. The center has moved so far to the right in this country,

that you can be a very moderate progressive and still be considered the fringe.