Please allow me to introduce myself.....

[galileoreloaded]

I generally stick to econ stuff, but I have posted before about the authoritarian ideals espoused so often here and on other boards I enjoy. A uniquely American value it seems.

My question is, since as a group we now have a vested interest in the health and the cost implications from individuals and their health decisions (both good and bad), shouldn't we be allowed to point this out, in public, to these individuals? Lets face it, in a society, peer pressure can work both ways, both to deride and to encourage.

Should I call out the 300 lb. chain-smoking male in the McDonald's drive through for not doing his fair share??

And while we are at these hard questions, why should we pay OTH (other than hospice) for people with serious illness that require massive resource interventions just to guarantee a stable prognosis', much less a better than say 50/50 chance of survival?

That's not mean, that is reality. Society can't remove all the risk of living, no matter how wealthy we are.

Any thoughts?

[datasuspect]

1. it depends on how much of a badass you are, i suppose

but then i routinely say what i want to people anyway.

just be careful you don't write checks with your mouth that your ass can't cash.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

38. and soon to be flatonhisass and needed ER care

when pissing off the 300 secret sumo wrestler. LOL

[flvegan]

2. Oh, this will get really brilliant really fast.

:popcorn:

[marmar]

4. Butter in the middle and on top? Pass me some.....

:popcorn:

[leftstreet]

9. Oh my word

This calls for strong drink

:beer:

[dana_b]

41. no! no butter for you!

not if we're paying for your healthcare!! :P ;)

[blondeatlast]

15. Can you scooch over for me? Ice cold soda for me, thanks. nt

[msongs]

3. ...I'm a man of wealth and taste.... nt

[tonysam]

11. I've been around for a long, long year

Stole many a man's soul and faith

[Robb]

5. How about we focus on preventative care

...and leave browbeating for later iterations?

[Morning Dew]

6. what's puzzling me is the nature of your game.

[dchill]

27. OK, that was gonna be...

MY response. I guess all that's left to say is:

What's my name
Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah

:hi:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Straight Story]

8. Yeah, here are my thoughts:

Should we invade nations weaker than us? Should we invade countries who might someday pose a threat to our economy and well being now instead of waiting until later?

Should we call out the guy driving with 4 people in his car (more weight on the roads we all pay for) and tax them more?

How about those who live in hoods with more crime (like mine) - should they be taxed more for police than other hoods?

Or how about those states that border the Ocean? They are more likely to be attacked and need subs/ships to protect them then us folks in Ohio.

Want a sliding scale on one issue? How about we spend some time on all issues?

I pay more for people in some areas and in some situations than I do for others (tax wise). Same applies to health care.

When you want that sliding scale across the board, get back to me.

[RKP5637]

13. +1, n/t

[grantcart]

10. glass house

If you a person that lives without sin or imperfection of any kind then I would encourage you to start confronting all of the imperfect people you come across.

Of course the fact that you would think that you are imperfect and without sin means that you have already committed the most offensive of sins and ends the matter completely.

[Beetwasher]

12. I Suggest You Start W/ The Anti-HC, Anti-Abortion Repubs In Congress

Who's Gov't Funded Health Care Provides Abortions for them, their families and their staff on your tax dollars. Ask them if they've utilized their abortion coverage.

After all, if my health care and how I utilize my health plan is their business, shouldn't theirs be mine?

[county worker]

14. You are reducing people to some dollar value which is not what I am about.

I would rather not measure everything and everyone by some cost accounting method even though I am an accountant.

What you are talking about are temporal matters and I believe we are both temporal and spiritual. To do what you are talking about is to ignore the most lasting thing about a human being IMHO.

This world is harsh and cold enough, do we have to remove the humanness factor too?

[Cleita]

16. More thoughts than you have put into this.

If you crunched some numbers, you might find that whatever you put into this over a lifetime will pay for you and your dependents, no more really. The point is that for all those insurance premiums you paid for all your life, when the time comes that you need real and comprehensive health care, it will be there for you and not ripped out from under your feet at the crucial moment.

[Joey Kidd]

17. Sigh !

No comment,or I'll become nasty.

[Skittles]

26. aw come on, Joey Kidd

we WELCOME nasty

[cutlassmama]

18. This will not end well. n/t

[cynatnite]

19. Maybe the 300 lb chain-smoker doesn't have health care?

Maybe he doesn't have the opportunity for gastric band surgery. Maybe he doesn't know how to quit smoking? Maybe he needs a doctor to help encourage him and show him how.

We can't remove the risk of living, but there are lots of ways to responsibly help people who are trapped like this. Maybe this reform will save that man's life.

Just my two cents.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. mind if I call you

Lucifer? :popcorn:

[tabatha]

21. I thought the whole meaning of a large pool

.... the more in the pool, the cheaper the premiums become.

When one pays insurance, one is paying for oneself to have treatment if one gets sick.
That is the basic premise of insurance.

I do not get the charge that by paying insurance for oneself, one is paying for someone else.

Having more people in the pool means cheaper rates for everyone.

[Ozymanithrax]

22. I thought you were going to begin with "Symapthy for the Devil"

"Please to meet you, hope you guess my name"

The answer to your question is, no.

The 300 lb chain smoking guy being carried by the crane through the McDonalds drive through has the right to dig his grave with a knife and fork.

[Dogmudgeon]

23. This is a gag post, right?

--d!

[galileoreloaded]

30. Sort of. n/t

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

25. how ya gonna get to the Drive Thru without tax subsidized roads and lights and stuff?

:freak: Why you eating that shit anyway?

[galileoreloaded]

28. The point here is to play devils advocate...and I guess I did a stellar job...

but this fight and our national discourse is just starting to heat up and these are valid questions that will need to be answered.

So far, County Worker wins in my book, and that is what I shall say.

[Caretha]

35. Sorry

you have no valid questions. My suggestion is let your conscience be your guide, and stop asking dumbass questions.

[frazzled]

36. Don't kid yourself ... you didn't do a particularly stellar job at all

If you think your devil's-advocate propositions were in the least compelling, think again. It's the kind of hyperbolic fear-mongering meant to instill gasps about how the government will try to control our health outcomes through cost-benefit analyses: death panels, in another parlance. Very few here are dumb enough to fall for it.

[dchill]

29. "Society can't remove all the risk of living,..."

No, we can't. But as Democrats, we need to remove some of the risk of DYING from lack of health insurance.

You should know that.

[Bluebear]

31. >I generally stick to econ stuff

[Caretha]

32. Oh galileoreloaded...

where for art thou galileoreloaded?

You started a pissantist post galileoreloaded...have you gone to yonder dildo posters land, galileoreloaded?

Oh yoohoo.....oh yoohoo, galileoreloaded...come backkkkkkkkkkkkkkk...............come back.........

[Bluebear]

45. lol

[MissMarple]

33. Thoughts...what first comes to mind is... what country are you from?

You posit some cogent questions. Question one gets a yes (free speech and peer pressure), but two gets a big question mark. That sounds like a "death panel" question. It is more a question for the patient, the family, and the doctor. How much do we pay? Interesting question, but the answer most probably should not be legislated.

Removing all the risk of living...only god can do that. We, here, do the best we can, with what we have. And most of us know when a plug needs to be pulled.

Do we pay for an aberrant few who want to suck dry the community so they can live? I think that is in the GOP ideology of "trickle down". But your point remains. How far do we we go? In future, how much will it cost? Perhaps that is a matter for private insurance to take up, as well as the very, very wealthy families and beneficiaries. Quality of life and community resources are an important component of that discussion for the broader community.

***
on edit: I should have read the above posts. I'm guessing you have read a lot of sci fi...or something. :)

[nolabear]

34. Sure. I think that's a great idea. But you'd better be reloaded in more ways than one.

Seriously, your little nightmare scenario, ya know, really doing the death panel thing and "calling out" various people you deem engaged in unhealthy practices is not only stunningly lacking in compassion and common sense, it's likely to get your butt kicked in quite a few places I know of. Then we can talk about what's healthy and not healthy to do.

[L0oniX]

37. Well then ...I guess there really is a need for some death panels.

:crazy:

[galileoreloaded]

39. Wow, I really touched a nerve with the finite resources comment. Sorry for offending

anyone, but I guess it was driven by the conversation with my Mom this weekend about health care spending in the last month of life.

Actually, i was referencing her wishes to not be "kept alive and a burden to family and resources better utilized elsewhere".

I will pass these comments about eternal longevity along to that ol' RN so we both can cogitate about the latent fear of death. (forgot to mention she is a hospice nurse these days, after years in psychiatric nursing)

Pragmatic discussions aren't ALWAYS political, you know.

[Confusious]

40. I think it was the line

"authoritarian ideals espoused so often here and on other boards I enjoy. A uniquely American value it seems"

I take it as you are saying that America has authoritarian ideals, and America is the only one who has authoritarian values.

If so, wrong in so many ways.

[galileoreloaded]

44. Seriously? You don't pick up on authoritarianism in almost every post?

demanding unquestioning obedience? Name calling those that don't agree?

Hell this thread alone I was called names, for suggesting a reality that everyone has thought of but is afraid to talk about for fear of disrupting some imaginary yet apparently fragile balance.

[The Midway Rebel]

42. I agree, your scenario is a description of reality.

If you replace the "I" in your question with the collective society and culture, we already shared a vested interest in the health and cost implications from individuals and their health decisions (both good and bad).

We shun smokers out of doors, by law in most places. We mock them and their fiendish addiction in our popular culture. We encourage, cajole, beg and plead for them to quit with a myriad of drugs, remedies and techniques.

We mock, shame, and poke fun at the overweight and likewise strive to offer dozens of remedies for their situation. And, we do not spend a lot of money keeping poor folks alive in their terminal conditions.

If you, as an individual, feel it is your duty as citizen to modify somebody else's behavior, you have my permission.

I also agree with your claim that society cannot remove all the risk of living, no matter how wealthy we are. This is such and obvious a statement it can easily be claimed a truth and frankly it rings of jingoism.

So let me ask you this, if society cannot at least remove some of the most pernicious, the most common, the most crassly commercial and the most insidious risk to individual wealth and property why should we bother to live in a society at all?

[defendandprotect]

43. Sounds just like what "Jesus" would say . . !!

We need a system of preventive health care in America --

and truth telling from the food industry/health officials!