Medical expenses are the major reason people go bankrupt

[mdmc]

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Rare or serious diseases or injuries can easily result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills - bills that can quickly wipe out savings and retirement accounts, college education funds and home equity. Once these have been exhausted, bankruptcy may be the only shelter left, regardless of whether the patient or his or her family was able to apply health coverage to a portion of the bill or not.

more at =

Top 5 Reasons Why People Go Bankrupt http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/109143/top-5-reasons-why-people-go-bankrupt?mod=bb-checking_savings
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Anything in our HCR bill to help out?

[Captain Hilts]

1. You just don't have these conversations in Canada or the UK, or Germany or France...nt

[Lars39]

2. K & R...Happened to me.

The numbers have grown, even with the new bankruptcy bill. :(

[dkf]

3. Watch sicko.

The assurances I hear from our side about how none of us will ever go bankrupt over medical bills makes
me want to hurl.

Are they really this clueless?

They needed to reform insurance first before forcing us to buy a flawed product.

[mdmc]

4. ANYTHING IN THE REFORM HELP THIS AT ALL?

[woo me with science]

30. Nope. Most people with medical bankruptcies have insurance,

and nobody claims this insurance reform will cut costs.

[Junkdrawer]

34. The ban on rescissions is a cruel joke....

‘‘SEC. 2712. PROHIBITION ON RESCISSIONS.

‘A group health plan and a health insurance issuer
offering group or individual health insurance coverage
shall not rescind such plan or coverage with respect to an
enrollee once the enrollee is covered under such plan or
coverage involved, except that this section shall not apply
to a covered individual who has performed an act or prac-
tice that constitutes fraud or makes an intentional mis
representation of material fact as prohibited by the terms
of the plan or coverage. Such plan or coverage may not
be cancelled except with prior notice to the enrollee, and
only as permitted under section 2702(c) or 2742(b).

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

Um, that is what the insurance companies ALWAYS do. They go though your application with a fine toothed comb and they find something you ommitted (or got the date wrong) and then they cancel coverage for "fraud".

[Echo In Light]

5. Yep. We did...several yrs ago & not one frivolous item - it was all medical

[kestrel91316]

6. This will be the ultimate yardstick by which we must measure this and all healthcare legislation in

the US. NEVER lose sight of this shameful benchmark. It should be ZERO.

OUR COMMON GOAL, regardless of whether we support this particular bill or not, must be the reduction of the medical bankruptcy rate to ZERO.

Because that's what civilized nations do.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. +1

[laughingliberal]

11. +1000 nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. +1000

[Dappleganger]

17. AGREED

[mdmc]

23. +1

[Statistical]

7. 78% of filers had some form of health insurance

Nothing in HCR is going to change that.

Single payer or robust public option maybe.

Anyone ever look at what a 20% co-insurance would cost for long term cancer treatment. Say a million a year for 3 years @ 20%. Anyone have $200,000 a year to pay "their portion". I know I don't. Even a less crippling illness would bankrupt me in a year or two and that is with some modest savings. You throw in loss of income from the illness and it only accelerates bankruptcy.

[daa]

9. No they didn't fucking look, but hey YOU HAVE INSURANCE

[ecstatic]

21. There are annual out of pocket maximums...I have 80/20

insurance and paid a higher premium to have a 1k max out of pocket in network and 1k max out of network. You really should read more on the issue before giving in to fearmongering.

[mdmc]

26. For a single working person, I heard annual cap was $6200

I only have about $2000 to spend on health care (I have to pay for housing and food). I need about $6000 in treatment, but go without cause I can only afford $2k..

So am I missing something or what? I'm not fearmongering - I cant access affordable medical treatment because I am too sick and earn too little. I am completely insured through my employer..

I would have to go bankrupt (pay for medical treatment on credit cards then go broke) in order to receive the medical treatment I need.

[laughingliberal]

10. And many have gone bankrupt over medical expenses with much better coverage

than what people will have with a 'bronze' plan.

[pitohui]

12. this has been the case at least for 20 or 25 yrs -- 2 quick points

first of all, medical expenses/bankruptcy should NOT wipe out your retirement acct, in many states, your retirement acct is PROTECTED from bankruptcy -- of course you need to get a bankruptcy attorney for YOUR state but NEVER break a retirement acct (before retirement age) in order to avoid going bankrupt, you can (and should) legally protect that money so you aren't totally destroyed -- in some states they can't take yr house/car either so DON'T sell those items or take out loans using them as collateral -- go bankrupt FIRST, clear the medical bills, and keep what you can to help your longterm survival

too many people do stupid shit like breaking a retirement acct and spending all the money THEN declaring bankruptcy, it's throwing their future in the garbage can when they didn't have to

second point, EVEN if the doc/hospital works w. you and stops collecting the co-pays, you will still likely have to consider bankruptcy if you're out of work a long time because you still gotta eat, pay the house note, pay the electric bill, and so on -- a close friend (close enough that he shared financial info) had hodgkin's disease, for which the docs/hospital collected over $600K from the insurer and told him not to worry about making the co-pays -- he still went bankrupt because of the long period of time out of work

i don't think this HCR can or will do anything about that, in addition to health care reform, we need some kind of dole or guaranteed income when people can't work for long periods of time -- and the mood of america is so hysterical about socialism i just don't see how we get that in our lifetimes

at this point i just want to celebrate that we're getting SOMETHING -- some people being helped some time is better than no one being helped ever

[Statistical]

19. Those are good points. NEVER EVER EVER EVER use protected assets to pay unsecured debt.

Retirement Accounts, life insurance, pensions, SS, and most equity in your home is protected.

Never under any circumstances tap it to pay unsecured debt.

So many people do that only to have more and more and more debt come in and it crushes any savings and then they STILL file Bankruptcy only they have no protected assets left to protect.

Never escalate debt.


Hard Assets/Retirement
Mortgage
Secure Debt
Unsecured debt (consumer credit)
Unsecured debt (non credit)

Never use something higher up the debt food chain to pay something lower.

For example never pay medical bills with credit card. Hospital will be willing to go much lower (in terms of % on the $) than credit card company will. Why? $10K in hospital debt doesn't cost them $10K. $10K in credit card debt means credit card company PAID $10K hard cash to someone else. Their cost in now $10K.

Always deal with debt at the lowest possible level. Failing to do this destroys millions of families financial health every year.

Under my preferred system Single Payer this wouldn't even be a concern but given that it is play smart.

[mdmc]

27. thanks for the info

..

[berni_mccoy]

13. "Some form of insurance" that is, insurance that could rescind coverage...

something that won't happen under the HCR bill.

Other "some form of insurance" also had lifetime and annual caps. Again, something that won't happen under the HCR bill.

[pitohui]

14. as a self employed person i went month to month w. health insurance

if i had a bad accident and it was all fixed in a month i would be okay but i had to live in fear that if i ever needed long term expensive care i would be canceled

honestly i wonder why anyone who was employable would be self employed, of course, i suppose that it's the dirty secret of self employment that almost no one who is sane truly chose that life

the insurers not being able to rescind coverage when you're hurt and sick THIS is a big win and will definitely help people -- THIS is prob. one reason insurers are screaming, have to admit their howls re music to MY ears

[raccoon]

22. Maybe some people are self-employed because they couldn't find anything?

Especially if they've got some age on them.

[Statistical]

20. 20% of $300K dollars a year. How quick will you go bankrupt?

20% co-insurance is actually pretty good.
HCR allows plans with as much as high as 40% co-insurance.

Many people who file Bankruptcy have very good Health Insurance.

Unless you got hundreds of thousands of dollars in liquid assets plus cash to absorb loss of income while not working it doesn't take much to wipe out any assets even with top of the line health insurance.

Most Americans regardless of insurance are one major illness short of financial pain.

[mdmc]

29. I thought the HCR bill capped annual out of pocket expenses

I thought that no matter how sick I get I would only have to pay $6,200 for medical treatment..

[mdmc]

28. the caps and rescind cov. will help reduce bankruptcies

:toast:

[Junkdrawer]

32. "except in cases of fraud or intentional misrepresentation of material fact."....

Will stop insurers from rescinding insurance when claims are filed, except in cases of fraud or intentional misrepresentation of material fact.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/03/09/harkin-predicts-gift/

Um, that is what the insurance companies ALWAYS do. They go though your application with a fine toothed comb and they find something you ommitted (or got the date wrong) and then they cancel coverage for "fraud".

[Feron]

33. They can still deny claims and will.

If you need a procedure that is deemed too expensive, the insurer may find it more profitable to pay a hundred dollar a day fine instead.

I'm betting for every scrap that is given to the public, there's a loophole for the insurers work around.

[mdmc]

35. this rescind verbage allows the for profits to comb your application for errors

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

[Blue State Blues]

15. medical bankruptcies will still happen

People who get sick will still go broke ... just not as quickly.

[pitohui]

18. true but buying time is sometimes all you need

in the example i give above my friend w. hodgkin's eventually enjoyed a full recovery and was rehired at his old job

he discharged $25K of debt in bankruptcy, even a little more time, and he would have been able to keep the balls in the air long enough to save himself from the bankruptcy

unless someone is so sick or injured that they will never have decent employment again, buying them time gives them a chance to rebuild

time does help some people even if it doesn't help all people

[crazy_vanilla]

24. and no person who has lived through such an ordeal

will ever oppose the HC bill

So I guess I wish those stubborn idiots to personally experience it like I did, so they can finally learn that one may have health insurance and still go bankrupt due to medical bills.

[mdmc]

31. How does the HCR bill reduce bankruptcies?

The HCR bill solidifies for-profit insurance as the middle man between patient and doctor. If ya can't afford the out of pocket expenses, wouldn't you either go bankrupt getting medical treatment or you go without?

[eridani]

25. Nothing in the bill will help. The threshold prompting people to declare bankruptcy

--is reached WELL BEFORE lifetime coverage limits kick in. Not that such limits aren't a good idea; it's just that they will have little effect on bankruptcy.