“The monsters never go away.”

[Cyrano]

I occasionally do volunteer work taking supplies to elderly shut ins. One lady that I’ve come to know is almost 90 and she has a faded concentration camp number tattoo on her forearm. I never thought it was right to ask her about it, and she never volunteered any information about it.

She’s fully aware mentally, she keeps up with the news on TV, newspapers and magazines which she reads through a magnifying glass, and she has a grand nephew who has shown her lots of things on his laptop computer. When possible, I spend time with her on weekends and she’s always interested in and asking about current events.

I didn’t have a lot of time early this morning, but she stopped me cold when she asked me if it was true that there were people yelling at congressmen and calling them “disgusting names.” I assumed that her grand nephew had shown her stories about the insane tea baggers at work. Although I was late, it didn’t seem that important. I spent about half an hour with her, explaining what had happened.

She wanted to know what was actually said and I told her. As she slowly absorbed it, I’m certain she was tearing up. Then, she bowed her head a little and seemed to be talking more to herself than to me.

She said: “The monsters never go away.”

I realized that I was living in an instant of time that only our greatest writers could have conceived. I also became aware that I was looking at the number tattooed on her arm, and I could feel myself tearing up.

Most of the time, we all wake up to just another day. But this day, and the words she spoke, will remain with me until I die.

[liberal N proud]

1. WOW!

[Sinistrous]

2. !

I'm speechless.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street

Twilight Zone

[Echo In Light]

11. Weird...thought of this just before seeing you'd mentioned it

[arcadian]

189. Rod Serling was a visionary.

Genius. He couldn't come right and say things were fucked up, he had to disguise it.

[The Genealogist]

4. What is really sad is that the Baggers have proven...

that this lady, who bore the brunt of one of history's greatest cruelties, would mean nothing more than another opportunity to attack someone. They attack people in wheelchairs, they attack elderly men with Parkinson's disease, they hurl disgusting epithets and spit at members of congress. Why? Because they are overgrown infants who act out when they do not get what they want.

These WASPs think they are suffering a million slings against them, but I doubt they could handle a single day of what someone in a Concentration Camp had to go through. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be this lady you have written about here. I simply cannot imagine what kind of emotional pain these disgusting people have caused her.

[myrna minx]

6. You expressed my feelings better that I could. Thank you.

K&R n/t

[formercia]

16. "I doubt they could handle a single day"

That's why they always end up being the guards.

[me b zola]

122. Simple, yet profound. n/t

[formercia]

208. The SS were very skilled at choosing KAPO candidates.

One method recounted to me second-hand:

It was Winter. A new group of inmates were seated in a circle on the parade Ground. The ground was frozen and they were barely clothed. After a while, an SS trooper threw an SS trench coat into the circle. At first, nothing happened, but eventually one of them got up and put on the coat. He not only became a guard, but he took on the persona of the uniform.

This was witnessed by an inmate who was a Psychiatrist. He soon realized that the Nazis were using skilled psychological manipulation to control the inmates.

As time went on, fewer and fewer guards were needed, and the inmates became increasingly docile, partially due to disease and hunger, but also due to the expertise of Nazi Psychiatrists.

[me b zola]

222. re psychological manipulation to control the inmates

I have long suspected that the gop uses social psychologists and/or psychiatrists to know exactly how to "motivate" their followers. They have a long history of playing on people's fears and turning those fears into irrational hatred. They do it with precision, like a surgeon with a scalpel. IMO it is no coincidence that the gop manipulates throngs of people to deny reality, act against their own self-interest, then focus their fear and hatred on Democrats.

[geardaddy]

18. They should show that old Coronet film

to these crybabies teabaggers.

http://www.archive.org/details/ActYourA1949

[liberalhistorian]

97. Very true. I've studied the Holocaust for years now,

and it's one of those things that you will just never get used to reading or hearing about, ever. And if it's that hard to just read or hear about, then I can't begin to imagine having to actually LIVE it, not for even a few hours. I actually asked a survivor about that once when she came, along with two other survivors, to my college to give a presentation 22 or so years ago. She said that there was nothing extraordinary or different about her or her family, that you just dig deep and find an inner strength you didn't know you had. The other survivors echoed that. I was really amazed.

One of the saddest things I've ever heard is a recent NPR report on survivors with dementia who, once the dementia begins worsening, believe they're back in the camps. Apparently, it's been well-known and dealt with in Israel for quite some time but is just now becoming an issue in this country. Of all the gross unfairness, to go through all of that and come full circle in old age by having your mind betray you and trick you into reliving it without even being able to realize that it's not really happening. Just heartbreaking beyond belief.

[HillbillyBob]

153. Thanks for saying that

"These WASPs think they are suffering a million slings against them, but I doubt they could handle a single day of what someone in a Concentration Camp had to go through."

I have been sort of on the watch since HS when I attended different churches trying to find a place to belong, since I pretty much knew I was gay.

Some of the stuff I heard in those churches was surely not Christian, the Soldiers of Gawd, who dress dowdy, but have armories in their basements and the anti jew, black , gay stuff I heard.
I have quietly watched the moneyed folks turn our country into an 4th reich follow up. Even to having people, complete strangers come up to me and share horror stories about the alphabet agencies that are attached to our government. like how the CIA / OSS got nazis and stolen treasure out of Europe at the end of WWII. I had an uncle who survived Buchenwald, I lived in an apt building in Miami where 80% were survivors from other kamps, with the numbers on their arms who did not speak a lot about what happened, but enough that I could grok what they were saying. How DEA was responsible for crack cocaine in poor areas, even to seeing strange boats/planes offloading burlap covered packages in the sofla glades,and smelling what I knew to be true. Processed coke, crack and mj have definite identifying odors and even someone as nose blind as I am can smell it.
Geo Wallace telling me that the Bushes make the mafia look like church deacons.
Most all were strangers to me, like they knew somehow I would see and understand. While others try to tell me I was imagining things.
My life has been like TSGarp meets Forrest Gump.
while the rest of us are busy with life, kids or football and American Idiots we are being ripped off and minimalized by the ptb.
I fear them I really do, but I am not going to live in abject fear, just try to be ready to fend for ourselves when it does come down and hope that there are enough sane folks left to pick up the pieces.
I am glad to see at least some of this darkness exposed here in the sterilizing daylight.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. thank you

for sharing this moment.

You have magnified her voice in a profound way.

:hug:

[cali]

7. Amazing and poignant story eloquently told. big k&r

[GardeningGal]

8. Wow - gave me goose bumps. nt

[Chemisse]

52. OMG - me too. nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. Double Wow.

Interestingly, last night I was reading about the Warsaw Ghetto and the transports.
And the eerily similarities of how people looked at what was going on but did not SEE.
Did not want to believe the implications of what they were watching.

Thanks for that post.

[liberalhistorian]

98. To be fair, we're looking at it from hindsight where we

know what happened and that it really did happen. At that time, they didn't have that benefit and had never had to encounter such a thing before. The notion of mass trickery and mass murder on that scale perpetrated by their own nations was simply impossible to too many of them, as it would, I dare say, be for us to grasp were we to find ourselves back then without the benefit of hindsight or foreknowledge.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

10. Thank you for telling this so beautifully

And her words carry so much weight. She probably remembers exactly how it all began.

[guitar man]

12. K&R

And bookmarking....powerful testament to the ugly side of human nature

[Mira]

13. It leaves me speechless. Here'e why I understand it really well:

I was born in Germany in 1944/ the war was still on.
I left at almost 20 with a ticket to a Dutch freight ship and 40 bucks and came to America. I could not live with the immediate German past.

Once here, in 1963/64 the populace set upon me to indoctrinate me about the inferiority of blacks.
They did not find fertile ground.

Now, my 86 year old mother who still lives in Germany, when she heard about what happened here with the teabaggers and the hateful outbursts also said that it is eerily reminiscent of what she witnessed at the start of the decline into the abyss.

For you it was a glimpse.
For her, we will never know the depth of it all, unless you maybe make it a point to ask if you could sit down with her and talk to her about her life.
I would suspect there may well be information and insights to be given and gained that will die with her if not asked for.

[Cyrano]

15. Her grand nephew has a video tape in which he recorded much of

her past. He didn't offer to show it to me and I thought it would be presumptuous to ask. I suggested that he contact Steven Speilberg about including the video in the Shoah project. I don't know if he will.

(For those who don't know, Speilberg set up a project years ago to videotape countless camp survivors telling their stories. He felt it had to be preserved before the last survivors died. You can find out much more about the Shoah project on Google.)

[Mira]

17. What a good idea about passing the tape to Spielberg. I have all of Shoah on

tapes, it is wrenching to see and must be preserved.

[BonnieJW]

171. I have a cookbook

that is published in Israel that contains the stories of Holocaust survivors and their favorite family recipes. The proceeds are used to feed the poor in Israel. The stories are haunting and you cannot read this book without a box of tissues. The one that really got to me was from a woman who's story simply said,"I do not want to tell anyone about what happened to me and my family in the camps; it is too horrible. This is a recipe for cookies my mother made for me when I was a little girl."

[TheUnspeakable]

14. Thank you for this-it's so true...

it's taken me a long time to really understand that they will always be there. Sometimes there's brief periods where they seem to be defeated, but never for long. I searched for this quote from Chris Hayes because it's the only thing that's given me any hope.


(snip)So the thing that keeps Chris Hayes going is that the left always always no matter where or when…"The left is always fighting the powers that be, always trying to make the hardest changes, speaking for the most marginalized, and it’s never easy work and the odds are always stacked against you."



Chris said he didn’t want to wax philosophical but he concluded, "You have to almost have a spiritual commitment to it."


http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/28874

[liberalhistorian]

99. That, as a committed, liberal Christian, is what motivates

me as well and keeps me going. God absolutely hates injustice, especially against the weak, powerless and voiceless and poor, and no matter the race, gender, ethnicity or nationality, and gives strength and peace and power to those fighting against it.

[Bryn]

19. She's right..... 'the monsters never go away'

Give her a hug for all of us

K&R

[Heidi]

20. Nope, they don't go away. But people like that remarkable woman learn to walk past them

without being consumed by them.

[Enthusiast]

21. She is right.

The names and faces might change but the haters remain.

Last time it was the Gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally and physically challenged, socialists, communists, Eastern Europeans and Jews.

[WeekendWarrior]

22. One of the most beautiful posts I've ever read

I have tears after reading this story. And I just want to give that poor woman a hug.

Monsters, indeed...

[pundaint]

123. +1

[Odin2005]

23. Wow! K&R

[WCGreen]

24. Damn...

[Greyhound]

25. No they don't. K&R.

[Qutzupalotl]

26. And that is why we fight

for the underdog.

[deaniac21]

27. She is right! They absolutely are equlivant to the SS officers

who ran the death camps.

[COLGATE4]

28. No, their leaders (the Rethugs who callously and calculatedly

manipulate these knuckle-draggers) are the officers who ran the Death Camps. These morons are more like the Ukrainian or Polish guards whom the Nazis empowered as guards (think John Demjanjuk). The masses are mindless inchoate haters - their masters in the Republican party are the cynical amoral mediocrities who feed them their daily ration of hate.

[deaniac21]

213. Wow, that you make them all pretty old.

[DrCory]

29. Calling congress persons "disgusting names"=Nazi monster?

Seems a bit over the top to me. :shrug:

[Hissyspit]

30. Or not.

[DrCory]

35. Calling a member of congress, ANY member, regardless...

of political affiliation a disgusting name renders one a Nazi?

[Hissyspit]

36. The old lady understands the connection.

[DrCory]

37. You Didn't Answer the Question.

And what connection?

[Hissyspit]

38. She didn't call them Nazis. She called them monsters. nt

[DrCory]

40. Nice Try, But The Inferrence is Clear

But, let's try it your way. Calling a member of Congress, ANY member, regardless of political affiliation a disgusting name renders one a monster?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. If (a) the name is "N*gger" of "F*g", and (b) it is accompanied by the other disgusting shit...

...the teabaggers do and say (and the old lady in question is well aware of, OP says she follows the news)... yes.

She was spot on. You seem not to like it.

[DrCory]

48. Agreed...

But the OP is not precise as to the definition of "disgusting names". Can you?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

51. Have you been living under a rock in the last week?

I can't imagine any way of getting news in which one doesn't become aware of the "n*gger/f*ggot" incident.

No, wait, I lie. I can imagine very well.

[DrCory]

141. I would like clarification on your inference...

"I can't imagine any way of getting news in which one doesn't become aware of the "n*gger/f*ggot" incident.

No, wait, I lie. I can imagine very well."

Thank you kindly in advance.

[Blue-Jay]

177. He's inferring that you're a moron.

I agree.

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue-Jay]

182. durrr hurr hurr.

Your posting style reminds me of someone.

[DrCory]

201. And who would that be??? N/T

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

192. Lots of people would like lots of things they ain't gonna get.

Sometimes, it's because they're unnecessary.

[Zoeisright]

194. LOL! Love it.

n/t

[DrCory]

202. I think your refusal is for another reason.

Why not say what you truly mean? What could be the worst consequence, a deleted post?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

204. Go fish elsewhere. -nt

[DrCory]

206. What Are You Afraid Of? N/T

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

209. Have you seen Back to the Future III?

Marty McFly learned an important lesson in it. So did I.

[DrCory]

214. No, Actually I Didn't...

What happened?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

215. Rent the trilogy. It'll be cheap, wholesome fun. Highly recommended. -nt

[Hissyspit]

45. Yes.

"Faggot"

"Nigger"

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vduhr]

65. Yes it does.

[PADemD]

94. She's remembering what the Nazi Brown Shirts did.

[DrCory]

131. If All The Brownshirts Did...

Was hurl obscenities at politicians and be guilty of boorish behavior, the comparison would be valid.

[TankLV]

155. ahh - and that's the whole POINT, isn't it?!!!

This is EXACTLY how it all began - JUST LIKE IN NAZI GERMANY.

This old lady recoginzes it, as do all sand and intelligent people.

But somehow YOU put your head up you ass and refuse to see it WHILE IT IS HAPPENING.

Bricks thru windows, threats of violence...but you don't see the connections...

How many connections do you need?

[DrCory]

170. Only Nazis throw bricks through windows and make threats of violence?

In all of the history of humanity, only Nazis behave as is being described?

Everyone who does such a thing can be accurately described as a Nazi?

[Hissyspit]

218. Calling a black person the n-word is NOT just boorish behavior or obscenity.

Calling a gay person the f-word is NOT just boorish behavior or obscenity.

And you damn well know that.

[FedUpWithIt All]

220. That is exactly what they did...in the beginning. n/t

[tblue37]

107. There are not that many steps between yelling "N****r" and "F****t"

and turning a blind eye to lynchings, and not too many steps between tolerating lynching and participating in it. From there, it's easy enough to get to the sort of deliberately incited mass killings that we saw in Rwanda, or from there to a government organized genocide.

Once the "other" has been dehumanized and demonized, it just isn't hard for demagogues to get the masses riled up against them and primed for pogroms.

I am surprised you don't know this.

[DrCory]

132. I Do Know This...

And my point is what's being engaged in this thread is rather similar. In my mind, the label of "Nazi" carries the same weight as "N****r" and "F****t". Not too many steps from labeling a political opponent a Nazi, fascist, communist, or whatever, based on speech and thoughts we may find uncomfortable and prison or worse either.

[dbmk]

125. You are either being stupid

or intellectualy dishonest if you think she based it on the name calling and name calling alone.

She sees something she recognizes. Which scares the shit out of me.

[DrCory]

130. And My Elderly Russian Friend "Sees" Something Also...

Having lived in the Soviet Union, he also has a unique perspective. He's convinced that Obama, and the majority of his cabinet, are secret communists. Does his belief make it so?

[hobbit709]

145. I have seen the face of "Communism" as it was called

and Obama isn't even close to being one.

[DrCory]

146. That's My Point.

I've lived in a self-proclaimed "communist" country and agree with you.

[TankLV]

157. Some people are ignorant, and thier observations are based on ignorance.

Your "friend" is one.

This lady is not.

Some comparisons are valid - others are bullshit - just like your trying to defend the indefensible.

[DrCory]

179. Are All Holocaust Survivors Intellectually Superior?

Not a one was ignorant?

[vduhr]

184. Ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge...

Seems this woman may have a lot more knowledge then you have since she experienced what you have not.

[DrCory]

200. True...I should have written "Not a one unintelligent" N/T

[Hissyspit]

217. Yes, thinking Obama is a communist is equivalent to calling black people "n****r"

and gay people "f****t."

:eyes:

[PassingFair]

147. She's not referring to an isolated incident, you know.

Hurling insults at members of Congress about
their sexual orientation or their color, holding
and speaking at rallies that incite racial and
homophobic violence, and now, a coordinated
attack on Democratic political offices around
the country.

It's a lot more than just "name calling".

[LanternWaste]

207. I imagine in and of itself...

"...a disgusting name renders one a Nazi?"

I imagine in and of itself, no-- the comparison is tenuous. However, with the recent, dramatic and obvious upswing of politically oriented pejoratives and violence directed at those who supported the bill, I think we may safely infer she was basing her judgment and her condemnation on those actions as a whole. The name calling, being the most recently pejorative/violence referred to, would then assume the targeting of her judgment.

Seems as likely to infer that as it would to infer she was referring specifically to Nazis. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[TygrBright]

58. +1

[Lex]

31. I think the lady in the story might know a bit more about the origins of such monsters

than you, perhaps?

[DrCory]

33. Perhaps. But is our current situation/political climate identical...

to that which we she is referring to?

[arthritisR_US]

41. it's the hate that is inside them that remains the same, that hate makes them monsters. n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

59. +1...the hate, stemming from fear, leading to inhumane treatment of others. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

101. So it's hate that makes them monsters? What about the hate here?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrCory]

54. "You Guys"??

Care to clarify that?

Anyway, I know an elderly Russian who lived many years in the Soviet Union. He is convinced that Obama is a communist and that we're all eventually headed for a totalitarian communist state. Is his assessment of the current political climate in the United States any less accurate than that of the woman mentioned in the OP? It seems he's just as reputable as she.

"In other parts of DU, most people are actually LIBERAL."

Since you have established yourself as the arbiter of what is liberal, lets have you definition of it.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

159. Yes - his assessment is way off and is totally inaccurate.

While the camp survivor's is NOT.

[DrCory]

205. Why Is That?

Both survived traumatic experiences (he in the GULAG as a teenager in the early 50's). Both have unique perspectives. Why is one more valid than the other?

[Chemisse]

55. No it is not identical, it is not even similar

Which is why the hatred stands out so starkly.

The fear, the hate, the violence - it is timeless. We will always have monsters, some times more than others.

[DrCory]

60. True, But Does Yelling At A Politician Make One a Monster?

[Chemisse]

66. You are interpreting this whole discussion on the most shallow level

For those of us who have been watching the virulent right wing become more and more inflamed, more filled with rage, more willing to condone crossing the line into violence, this latest display is the next step in a march of the monsters.

It's like an orchestra building toward a crescendo.

If you haven't been paying attention to this, or worse, if you sympathize with the tea baggers, you are just not going to get this whole thread. Ever.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

68. Me: "That man crossed the street and beat up that old lady. He's a criminal."

Idiot: "Does crossing the street make one a criminal?"

[d_b]

88. p0w!

[DrCory]

127. Does Yelling Obscenities at a Politician Make One...

Comparable to those who participated in the extermination of tens of millions?

[TommyO]

180. When somebody who survived the atrocities that the Nazis committed, and what's happening now

wise people listen.

[DrCory]

203. Not all survivors...

Are capable of forming correct conclusions. Such as my Russian acquaintance who swears Obama is a communist. He was incarcerated in the GULAG as a teenager shortly before the death of Stalin. Would it be also wise to listen to him?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

187. Thanks for helping me make my point in such a crystal clear fashion. -nt

[DrCory]

133. See Posts #32 and #27, and spare me a lecture on shallowness

"If you haven't been paying attention to this, or worse, if you sympathize with the tea baggers, you are just not going to get this whole thread. Ever."

You may wish to lecture yourself on intellectual laziness.

[HillbillyBob]

185. I have been watching for a long time and watching

various threads, threats and groupings.
First name calling and dehumanizing those you disagree with makes it easier to further the causes of them. They do hate anyone who is not deluded into believing that 'we' are out to get them, making it easier to be bullies because 'everyone else is doing it'. It gives cover.

I have stood up to groups of haters and made them ashamed..in mobs they know no shame, until maybe later when they each individually think back..but 'they' dont seem to stop and think now or later only congratulate themselves for killing a perceived enemy.

The main thing that seems to be holdin them in a group is the hate radio/tv hosts and common themes of communist, muslim, f** and n***** ie things that they have been told are bad. That white equals right, forget our social fabric that holds us together as a community. The much touted individual would be a beast in the wilderness if that were true, rampent rape and murder, cause 'Im bigger, badder, more of a man than you are type nonsense. Might equals right does not make it so.
Our real enemy is the corporates fascists that are stealing our retirements, sending our jobs overseas, while they foment discord, divide and conquer.

[vduhr]

69. Simply yelling? No

It's what they yelled and spitting on them that makes them monsters. I don't care what you are trying to do, but it's not cutting it. Their behavior was mean and cruel and there's no getting around it, no matter how you try to defend it.

[abelenkpe]

89. Add this

Former Militiaman in Alabama Called for Breaking Dems’ Windows

It wasn’t quite the shot heard around the world, but the sound of glass shattering at Democratic Party offices around the country has put the spotlight on former militiaman Mike Vanderboegh, who furiously called on followers last Friday to protest health care reform by breaking Democratic windows.

Vanderboegh posted his message on his blog, Sipsey Street Irregulars, calling for “all modern Sons of Liberty” to break the windows of local Democratic Party offices. Since that time, Democratic offices across the country have reported windows smashed in an apparent response to health care reform. Vanderboegh called health care reform backers “collectivists” and added that they “certainly do not hear the soft ‘snik-snik’ of cleaning rods being used on millions of rifle barrels in this country by people who have decided their backs are to the wall.”

“f you wish to send a message that Pelosi and her party cannot fail to hear, break their windows,” the Pinson, Ala., blogger wrote. “Break them NOW. Break them and run to break again. Break them under cover of night. Break them in broad daylight. Break them and await arrest in willful, principled civil disobedience. Break them with rocks. Break them with slingshots. Break them with baseball bats. But BREAK them.”

Vanderboegh seemed to take credit for instigating at least some of the attacks in interviews. He told the Kansas City Star that his call was meant “to get everyone’s attention.” To the Rochester (N.Y.) Democrat & Chronicle, he said: “If it takes a few bricks and broken windows for people to understand how close we are to widespread violence in this country then the bricks in the windows will have been worth it.”

Vanderboegh’s blog has been used to promote the Three Percenters, an antigovernment “Patriot” group that claims to represent 3% of U.S. gun owners. The name is inspired by the 3% of American colonists believed to have actively opposed England. Vanderboegh describes himself as “the alleged leader of a merry band of Three Percenters.” In the 1990s, he was associated with radical groups including the Alabama Constitutional Militia, the Tri-States Militia and the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, Constitutional Militia.

Vanderboegh has been keeping tabs on the “Window War” by posting news reports of the incidents on his blog. And there’s been a fair amount to keep track of.

more here:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/03/23/former-militia... /

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the similarities grow larger. Stop apologizing or trying to minimize the abhorrent behavior of the teabaggers and those that egg them on.

[tblue37]

111. Kristallnacht. nt

[DrCory]

135. Only the Right Wing Breaks Windows?

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2010-03-04/article/34778?headline=UC-Berkeley-Budget-Cut-Protest-Turns-Violent

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/12/12_uhouse.shtml

And what of these glass-breakers? Are they Nazis also?

[TankLV]

160. Wow - you certainly spend a lot of time trying to defend these Brownshirt Nazis!

[DrCory]

166. Not As Such...

My concern is the legitimization of false analogies, hyperbole, and fear-driven hystrionics into some kind of action.

You know, just like the baggers do.

[vduhr]

181. What is your motive?

Throwing bricks through windows and protesting is not what the elderly woman was talking about in the original poster's story. It is about using racial epithets and physically assaulting black members of Congress. The elderly woman was saying that "the monsters never go away", and the monsters she is referring to are those people that spit and yelled "nigger" and "faggot". They are monster for their racist remarks because she lived through a horrible time when racism meant that you died in a concentration camp, that the monsters that she is referring to are no different in comparison to the monsters she experienced. Why are you not able to see that? If that type of behavior goes unchecked or is encouraged in any way, it can become worse (ever heard of the Milgram experiments?) Why are you attempting, so vehemently to draw attention away from that fact? This woman NEVER said the word Nazi, she said "monsters".

[abelenkpe]

167. Whatever freeper.

[DrCory]

168. Rules...Read Them. N/T

[tblue37]

109. The bricks thrown through the windows of Democratic offices since the

passage of the HCR bill reminds me of the breaking of windows on Kristallnacht. It always starts somewhere. What the Nazis and the German populace did during the reign of the Nazis did not spring full-grown like Athena from the head of Zeus. It starts smaller and then builds up by steps.

You should read "They Thought They Were Free." It describes how the horrors built up over time, bit by bit, while people gradually became accustomed to what was being done.

[laughingliberal]

120. You really nailed that! Some will not believe it unless they see

concentration camps set up. Benign fascism is still fascism. And it does build a little at a time. The similarity I always note is the propaganda which seeks to convince the populace that some currently vilified group of more or less powerless people (minorities, undocumented workers, homeowners who bought more house than they could afford, workers with Cadillac health plans, the SS recipients, welfare queens, etc...) are responsible for their plight. You're not struggling because the upper 1% controls all the money and the wealthy corporations sent your job overseas. It's the Mexicans taking all the jobs or the unions demanding too much or the homeowners who should have known better. They inflame the hatred and anger of the populace against some other group who has no more power than they do to affect our plight and steal all the money while the populace fights over the crumbs. The angrier the populace is over one group or another the less likely they will figure out who really set up the conditions which led to their plight.

And it is rather inconvenient to notice it. After all the fascist, they did say, made the trains run on time. Americans hate to be inconvenienced.

[DrCory]

136. And What Do These Window Smashings Remind You Of?

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/12/12_uhouse.shtml

http://www.dailycal.org/article/108452/rioters_clash_with_police_in_streets_south_of_uc_b

[GoCubsGo]

162. Ah, the old "Your side does it, too" defense

Funny, but I never once saw ANYONE here defend those students for doing that.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

191. Don't you know? Everybody who says Pinochet was a murderous dictator is necessarily a fan of Stalin!

Patterns. Be aware of them.

[pundaint]

124. It depends on what you are yelling and to what end. I've seen some monster evidence today.

But feel free to shout at them about their lying, cheating, bribe taking as appropriate, in fact some in Congress may be monsters themselves now that they've lost all sense of how a democracy works.

[conscious evolution]

56. History may repeat itself

but never exactly the same way.
The current climate,combined with the right wings actions for the last 50 years lends creedance to the supposition that,yes,they are monsters.
Their actions and attititudes and outlook also lends creedance to the Nazi label.

[laughingliberal]

62. I think those who saw the lead up to Hitler's rise would probably be seeing a lot of parallels

The Republicans have been booted out of power in a time of economic calamity in favor of a more liberal government. Just as the right in Germany made it their mission to bring down the Weimar Republic, we see the same playbook from our Republicans. Admitting no culpability for the condition Germany was in that they caused, they obstructed in every way possible and made sure the Weimars could not govern. The public, frustrated with the lack of change, threw the Weimars out and the right regained power leading to the rise of Hitler. Does anyone doubt the current crop of Republicans is not the ideological descendant of the same people?

[madamesilverspurs]

70. Indeed.

I have an elderly friend who escaped Germany with her family when she was a teenager. After 9-11 and the PATRIOT Act and instituting the Department of "Homeland" Security, she tearfully confided that it was like "watching Hitler come up all over again." She then asked, "Where can I go now to be safe?!" Since the ugliness of last summer's town hall meetings she very rarely leaves her home.

-

[laughingliberal]

81. If we can't take the word of those who watched it happen there, who will we believe?

This is the price we pay for not insisting on educating our children in history and civics. We actually have a large segment of the population who think the problem with Hitler was he was too liberal. It's frightening.

[lib_wit_it]

105. Oh, don't worry, they're being "educated" into the *right* way of thinking about history.

[DrCory]

139. WHAT?...

"We actually have a large segment of the population who think the problem with Hitler was he was too liberal. It's frightening."

Really? A LARGE segment believes this? Can you provide some sort of source, cites, or links?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

197. He certainly refers to the "Hitler was a leftist" argument.

Which, you must agree, is (a) extremely false, (b) extremely ridiculous, and (c) believed by WAY too many people.

[lib_wit_it]

104. I doubt that that the current crop of Rethugs is *not* the ideological descendant of them, but I

have no doubt that the *are*.

Sorry, but that incorrect construction is becoming more common, and no one who likes clarity of message should approve.

Again, what you meant to say I believe is right on. Just wish you'd said it.

[laughingliberal]

117. Sorry, my typing gets ahead of me. ADD, I'm afraid.

Of course I meant I have no doubt they are the ideological descendants.

[mmonk]

134. There is a danger and it became larger under bush and isn't gone.

Eliminationist speech has upticked and has political backing

[TankLV]

158. YES !!! Wake the fuck up!!!

[DrCory]

172. Are You Sure You Want To Go With "Identical"?? N/T

[Marr]

190. You keep turning this into a Nazi thing.

I can't really blame you, as plenty of others are as well-- but still.

It seems to me like the woman was referring to the way cowardly, mean-spirited people tend to gather in groups and intimidate people they see as vulnerable. There are plenty of groups I'd lump in with the "monster" group the Nazis institutionalized. Everything from lynch mobs to playground bullies. It's a personality trait some people possess, and it won't ever go away.

[KittyWampus]

47. spitting on them, breaking windows, carrying signs threatening gun violence....

[tabasco]

63. She's lived the history.

Have you?

[DrCory]

140. Have You? N/T

[TankLV]

161. Umm - yes.

[DrCory]

163. Please Tell Me More...

I am honestly interested.

[fascisthunter]

67. they are monsters like the Nazis were

they preach hatred towards groups of people as if the whole world threatened them, when all people are trying to do is be free from their sociopathy.

uhuh... over the top... you go with that.

[DrCory]

128. I Will, Thank You...As You Are Engaging...

In the same type of intellectually lazy hyperbole as the baggars. You may recall the Nazi's did more than just SAY things.

[WinkyDink]

150. Maybe YOU should recall that the start was with PROPAGANDA.

[DrCory]

151. Words = Actions? In all cases? N/T

[fascisthunter]

212. My Mother Grew up in Germany during the end of the war

she remembers quite well what the Nazis did, and she also say the same thing most are seeing... these are uniformed people filled with hatred willing to swallow propaganda even though there are resources stating otherwise regarding the info they chose to side with. They are just like the nazis... they hate everyone except their own little exclusive club. Talk about deranged...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

100. Did we find a video of that?

[Hissyspit]

216. Yes.

It's not particularly clear, but I heard it.

"A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a 'ni--er.' And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a "faggot," as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president's speech, shrugged off the incident. But Clyburn was downright incredulous, saying he had not witnessed such treatment since he was leading civil rights protests in South Carolina in the 1960s.

- snip -

A colleague who was accompanying Lewis said people in the crowd responded by saying "Kill the bill, then the n-word.""

Are we assuming they are liars without video evidence?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

221. Then that's the same video I've seen. It's not even remotely clear.

Of course it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[WeekendWarrior]

118. Racial slurs?

And you think the reaction is over the top?

The whole Nazi movement was based on bigotry and hatred that was promoted to rile up the citizens of Germany and give them someone to blame. That's EXACTLY what's going on with the Tea Baggers.

[WinkyDink]

149. And breaking storefronts is only petty vandalism.............

[TankLV]

154. Of course it would to you...

wow - trying to out argue a camp survivor...and at the same time give excuse to this behavior...

well, at least we all know WHAT you are...

[DrCory]

176. Arguing against hyperbole...

Does not make one a sympathizer of baggers, Nazis, or any other member of the right wing.

"well, at least we all know WHAT you are"

What would that be?

[PVnRT]

210. A teabagger apologist

If you can't see the connection between reactionaries getting violent and what happened to Germany in the 1930's.....wow.

[crazy_vanilla]

32. these monsters are small-minded and worse than Nazis

The evil amongst us ... and some of them are my neighbors!


What a great story .... recommend

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

102. So your neighbors are committing genocide? Have you reported them?

[WillyT]

34. Thank You For That...

:cry:

K & R !!!

:kick:

[KittyWampus]

39. A fair number of these monsters would deny that old lady was ever in a Concentration Camp.

[YOY]

43. I know a sweet little old German lady about the same age.

She was married to a monster of an German officer when young (married at 19 or so) and naive. Beat her and her son relentlessly. Fucker died recently. Divorced him the moment the war was over and she could get away from him. I think she alluded to him being SS but she never admitted it. She is anything but a Nazi herself (or if she ever was she has far from renounced it.)

She has said a very similar thing to me about "gut looking but dum as a box auf hammers" Sean Hannity. No where near as chilling as coming from someone with a number tattooed to her arm but said with a wry smile and eyes that are looking at another era "I know vaht a fascist dumkauf looks and sounds like."

[CaliforniaPeggy]

44. Not just another day...

It never will be, for her...

Thank you for telling us.


K&R

[laughingliberal]

49. They don't ever go away

Never do they go away! And it is time to fight back against them. And, btw, 'third way compromises' is not fighting back. It's giving up ground a piece at a time.

Thanks for the post. I'm in tears, now, but we need to remember where the end results of right wing politics lead.

[Octafish]

53. The monsters never go away.

Until the world knows the truth.

Thank you, Cyrano. Please thank your friend for me and tell her that all good people love her.

[hippywife]

57. What a moment in time you had with her.

She knows what such hate can do, she doesn't have to try to conceive of it as we would. She knows first hand.

Thank you for taking the time to care for her and to talk to her, which is just as important.

And when you get the chance, let her know that good people are out there pushing hard every single day so that the monsters don't always win.

:hug:

[troubledamerican]

61. If you really believe this nonsense, as I do, then

you're making plans to leave the country like smart Jews did in 1933

"No, I'll stay and fight blah blah blah" say the good folks who know nothing of Chile 1973 or Argentina 1976.

April 4 will be your day in about 5 years.

[COLGATE4]

71. I'm afraid I'm totally missing your point???

[FarLeftFist]

64. They won't go away as long as fox news keeps cloning them.

my 1000th post!

[lunatica]

72. If feels really good doesn't it?!

Now you'll have to go to your profile to find out how many times you've posted.

Here's some celebrating gifs

[Tsiyu]

73. Way to go FarLeftFist!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :toast: :beer: :toast: :bounce: :bounce:

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[handmade34]

74. thank you for sharing

we all need to be reminded...

[AwakeAtLast]

76. And now her words will remain with me until I die

Thank you for posting this, and for your volunteerism which led to your conversation.

:hug:

[Touchdown]

77. Whoa!

I have nothing else to say.

[Loki]

78. As a nurse

I have cared for many people with the tattooed numbers on their arms. I was always humbled by that experience and reminded that their struggle for survival and the survival of justice and humanity demands that good people remain vigilant for the monsters never, ever go away. What a story.

[AsahinaKimi]

79. Thank you for sharing

a poignant posting.

[proReality]

80. K&R n/t

[nolabear]

82. Thank you for posting this. For most of us ut's potential horror. For her it's real.

[sweetroxie]

83. This gives me chills

[The Wielding Truth]

84. Again. Wow. We must stand against the monsters.

[TxVietVet]

85. It's the same thing over and over from the conservanazis

Every day. Lies, insults, demonization of their enemies. Over and over again. Their lust for power is going to kill someone. Unless the majority of the voters in this country don't see what's happening, then it will destroy this country.

The conservanazi republiklans and their teabaggers are venting their racist hatred more and more each day.

I've taken insults for my service in the Army because I wouldn't agree with what some of the conservanzis preach. Many conservanazis assume that if you are a veteran or you are from down South, then you believe as they do. When you don't, you get the hatred from them. Trust me. I've learned first-hand.

These conservanazis are going to create an incident that will take lives and if the Obama Administration doesn't investigate to find the cause of the problem and let's it continue, then we will fall into the abyss.

[lib_wit_it]

108. RWers assume that anyone who hasn't given them a reason to "suspect" them believes in the same nasty

bigoted, anti-intellectual, lizard-brained approach to life as they do. And, of course, a vet would simply have to be one of them. This myopic, self-aggrandizing assumption is what also leads them to mouth off in the company of non-RWers far more than Lefties introduce politics into a social situation. And, thanks to the demonization of Dems, let alone *liberals*, the RWers are allowed to spew, unchallenged.

At least, this is disturbingly true in my experience. I never *really* spoke my mind at work, because they already thought I was some kind of freak because I didn't jump in, like them, and agree with the teacher who mocked a speaker who used the word "inane," because the teacher couldn't imagine anyone would have a clue what that word meant. I kid you not. Those were, sadly, the kind of teachers who predominated in the Republicanized hell hole in which I attempted to educate young Americans.

But, I digress...or do I?

[DrCory]

142. Investigate What Or Whom?

"These conservanazis are going to create an incident that will take lives and if the Obama Administration doesn't investigate to find the cause of the problem and let's it continue, then we will fall into the abyss."

Are going to create? Do you have some kind of evidence to warrant "investigation"?

[CLANG]

86. What a mind blower! Tears well up in my eyes too.

[patrice]

87. no words . . .

[earth mom]

90. Problem is most of those monsters are running the government & stealing from the people. AND

allowing MASSIVE genocide to continue in the Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[abelenkpe]

91. excellent post

Thank you for sharing. And for being kind enough to care for elderly shut ins.

[applegrove]

92. Yup. There certainly are monstes out there. Hopefully with new

technology we will be able to control them more in the future. At least the new lie detector tests involve scanning the brain and will be more accurate.

[laughingliberal]

114. Or the monsters come to power and use the technology against the resistance. nt

[MindandSoul]

93. Thank you for sharing this! I'm so glad that the pearl of wisdom this

elderly lady dropped didn't fall on bare ground, but were preciously collected by a person with a sensitive and wise mind and heart!

[Hekate]

95. Yes. Hugs to you for sharing this so eloquently. Hugs to her. Bookmarked.

:hug: :grouphug:

Hekate

[DailyGrind51]

96. And like the Nazis, today's "monsters" believe that THEY are the true patriots.

[chill_wind]

103. 90 years old. Don't our parents and grandparents deserve better

final memories of life at their end of their journey than this-- before they close their eyes for the last time?

I despise these violent people.

[Skittles]

106. she is correct

they do not ever go away

[Bolo Boffin]

110. Human fraility will always be with us. n/t

[upi402]

112. Time to lift the taboo of Nazi similarities I think

Seems like history will repeat if we pretend man's inhumanity to man can never happen again. Or that history doesn't repeat HERE. Bush was just the frontman, it's still here.

[laughingliberal]

115. +1000 nt

[Hawkowl]

129. It is NOT AN EXAGGERATION

There are terrifying similarities between the right wing of the rethuglican party and the 1930's Nazi's. People who laugh it off do so at their, and everyone else's peril.

[DrCory]

143. In Your Opinion, What Should Be Done?

To prevent a repeat of that history?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

195. Maybe calling people's attention to the similarities of mindset and methods...

...and to the evils of bigotry in general, and of the teabaggers specifically, helps a little.

By the way, thanks for your great effort in keeping this thread kicked.

[TankLV]

164. And yet some idiots HERE are still trying to marginalize this courageou lady

while trying to defend the actions of these BROWNSHIRTS!!!

Unbelievable...

[Helga Scow Stern]

198. KKK n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

113. This is a sad posting. But Godwin's law applies. Are all rioters monsters and brownshirts?

What about the people breaking Army Recruiting office windows during the Cindy Sheehan protest against the War (both of them) this weekend?

I mean, one could just as easily say "if you have a business and don't have glass insurance you are a fool", right?

Now obviously, the prospect of mandated purchase of private goods and actual liberty is not what motivates these right wingers. But it seems that the next step in response is further loss of liberty as all incidents of rioting or civil disobedience and name-calling are compared to brownshirts.

[laughingliberal]

116. Not all. The people behind them? Likely. Follow the money. nt

[DrCory]

137. You've Articulated My Reaction Much Better Than I...

"But it seems that the next step in response is further loss of liberty as all incidents of rioting or civil disobedience and name-calling are compared to brownshirts."

Spot on.

[wordpix]

119. the monsters are coming to a national park near you

Tuesday, March 9, 2010

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=163769.0

19 April 2010: Bring Your Sidearms and Longarms To The Banks of the Potomac

As it stands now, is how I plan on attending the Restore the Constitution rally on 4-19 at Ft. Hunt and Gravelly Parks.

Pistol loaded, openly carried. Rifle unloaded, slung to rear. Bandoleer of magazines containing ammo. All in accordance with rules below. Please note that guidelines below are subject to final coordination with the Department of the Interior:

Participants and attendees are expected to know and abide by all applicable state and federal firearms laws. None of the information provided below is legal advice, and no attorney-client relationship is created by reading or relying upon this information. If you have questions, then you are expected to know the applicable state and federal firearms laws before attending the event.

Anyone prohibited from possessing a firearm by state or federal law may not possess a firearm at this event.

Participants and attendees may not bring any firearm prohibited by state or federal law.

1. ALL rifles and shotguns carried by participants at this event are to be unloaded (chamber empty, no magazine inserted, no ammo inside the rifle or shotgun, no ammo touching the rifle or shotgun whatsoever) and slung to the rear or to the side, away from the hands.

Although the law does allow for carry of some types of loaded rifles and some types of shotguns in some circumstances, our guidelines are simpler and more strict due to the relative novelty of this event and the high level of attention it is likely to receive from law enforcement, government, and the media.

2. While we do ask that your rifles and shotguns be unloaded, you are perfectly welcome to carry ammunition and loaded magazines on your person if you so choose, so long as no magazines are actually inserted into rifles and so long as you are not prohibited from owning a firearm.

3. Open carry of a loaded pistol is allowed.

Concealed carry of a pistol is allowed for those with a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit or a concealed handgun permit from a state for which Virginia allows concealed carry in Virginia (See the Virginia State Police’s website for a list of those states; we do not vouch for the authenticity or accuracy of that list).

Anyone carrying their pistol openly or concealed cannot have in it a magazine capable of holding over 20 rounds and cannot have a pistol designed to accept a silencer or suppressor.

Participants and attendees are required to keep all pistols holstered. Participants and attendees are required to keep all rifles/shotguns slung over their shoulder, muzzle-down, unloaded, with the safety on, and with no magazine inserted. Brandishing of firearms is prohibited by Virginia law. Under Virginia Code Section 18.2-282, it is unlawful for any person to (a) point, hold, or brandish any firearm in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or (b) hold a firearm in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another being shot or injured. Do not engage in any horseplay, demonstration of firing positions, or exchange of or other handling of firearms at Fort Hunt, Gravelly Park, or any other location or vehicle of transportation associated with this event.

By federal law, firearms are prohibited in federal facilities (defined by federal law as a building or part thereof owned or leased by the federal government, where federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties).

Do not transport a loaded rifle or shotgun in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway during this event.

Participants and attendees are not to consume, possess, or be under the influence of alcohol or illegal substances at this event.

Again, these guidelines are, as of now, subject to final coordination with the Department of the Interior.
snip

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?s=0f442bf947974bbcce8d32f884985132&t=100779

[Ohio Joe]

121. I think there is no doubt

Teabaggers/freepers... they are as bad as the nazis. They are stupid followers that have no issue committing atrocities... Go to freeper land, they brag about their intent. They are in fact, monsters. Now is the time we must stand up against them.

[vercetti2021]

126. Wow This made feel for this woman

I feel for her, it's like history is repeating itself. Tea Baggers are nazi's and evil, i think it's time for us dems and liberals to rise up against them and not show we're weak at all, we are th true americans!

[midnight]

138. K&R

[Homer Wells]

144. WOW!!

Just WOW!!
Kick

[pleah]

148. K&R Truer words were never spoken. n/t

[uponit7771]

152. Like whoa....K&R no doubt

[crim son]

156. Moving, sad post. Thanks. n/t

[Mad_Dem_X]

165. So true, so true.

All we can do is to keep fighting them, try to hold them at bay for as long as we have the strength to do so.

Thank you for sharing that.

[pgodbold]

169. This post is very likely...

the most powerful ever seen here, or any other blog for that matter. Nailed it sahe did.

[Deep13]

173. No they don't.

Which is why we can never take a free and rational society for granted. We can never assume that something like that only applies to another time or another people.

[Turborama]

174. K&R & Bookmarked

Thank-you for sharing this. Powerful stuff!

[HughMoran]

175. I'm at a loss for words

Anything I started typing sounded trite, so I'm just going to say - thanks for sharing your experience with us.

[femrap]

183. Monster is a good word

for them...they're about 22% of the population and if we are not careful, they can take over a culture like they did in Germany.

[Shining Jack]

186. That is truly moving...

I'm speechless...:cry:

[Robb]

188. Damn. Thank you. nt

[Zoeisright]

193. Ho. Ly. Shit. That gave me chills.

Now there's a woman who should have her own talk show.

[carolinayellowdog]

196. Just how I feel about the anti-Civil Rights thugs of the 1960s

I was a kid then, too young to fully grasp the enormity of the Birmingham church bombing, the Medgar Evers assassination, Bull Conner and his firehoses and dogs-- but all the images are indelible in my memory. At no time in the past 45 years have I had such a horrified feeling of deja vu, that "the monsters never go away." The haters may have changed, but it's the same hatred.

[Pryderi]

199. I should have read this earlier for a K&R. Touching story, Unfortunately, I got

Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[demmiblue]

211. Proud to rec this as #300!

Thank you for sharing this story with us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

219. No they never go away

and she is right... in ways that people don't understand


Why I keep making references to coarsening language and the ugliness we are going into.

I got a good friend, she is in her 80s and a survivor of Auschwitz... we've had this conversation a few times. She is actually glad she is in her 80s, but for obvious reasons fears for her children.