• DU Demographics: The Results •

[Robb]

"How the Census-taker knows you spend too much time on DU:"


:D

First of all, thanks to everyone who participated in the four polls.

The polls ran over the weekend and through Monday night; I took the final tally this afternoon -- although one or two votes might've slipped through since then.

The polls were of course "flawed" in countless ways; fortunately I know no one will be making life-and-death policy decisions based on them. I see them as a snapshot of sorts, and maybe a jump-off to more discussion, nothing more or less.

Enough yammering. To the results and colorful pie charts!! :bounce:

DU Demographics: Education

This poll had the highest number of participants, interestingly, at 370 votes.

...Of course, the text got cut off over there. :eyes: That's "Enrolled in high school," "GED/high school diploma," "Degree-seeking student in a college or university," "Some college, no degree or certificate," "Post-graduate (but non-doctoral) degree."

DU Demographics: Age

This poll had the next highest number of participants, 352. There were no votes for "Under 18."

DU Demographics: Income

This poll received 304 votes.

DU Demographics: Race & Ethnicity

This poll was the least popular, with 243 votes. There were no votes for "Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander."


This poll may have been the most flawed, since I lazily grabbed categories (and explanations of those categories) from the 2000 U.S. Census. Probably worth repeating here:

• White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.

• Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as 'Black, African Am., or Negro,' or provide written entries such as African American, Afro American, Kenyan, Nigerian, or Haitian.

• American Indian and Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.

• Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam. It includes "Asian Indian," "Chinese," "Filipino," "Korean," "Japanese," "Vietnamese," and "Other Asian."

• Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands. It includes people who indicate their race as "Native Hawaiian," "Guamanian or Chamorro," "Samoan," and "Other Pacific Islander."

• Some other race. Includes all other responses not included in the "White", "Black or African American", "American Indian and Alaska Native", "Asian" and "Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander" race categories described above. Respondents providing write-in entries such as multiracial, mixed, interracial, We-Sort, or a Hispanic/Latino group (for example, Mexican, Puerto Rican, or Cuban) in the "Some other race" category are included here.

• Two or more races. People may have chosen to provide two or more races either by checking two or more race response check boxes, by providing multiple write-in responses, or by some combination of check boxes and write-in responses.

I'll hold off on my own thoughts and let you all have at it. Thanks again for participating!
:)

[BrklynLiberal]

1. The equal distribution of income was interesting...

[SeattleGirl]

2. That really caught my eye too. n/t

[TreeHugnLibra]

80. I think it's interesting that the vast majority have at least some college

but half the people make $50,000 or less. Makes you wonder if all those college loans are worth it. Also wondering where I can find some of those Degree Seeking Studs!

[Emit]

3. Thanks for posting, Robb

I'll take a look ~ wondered how your polls were gonna turn out. Thanks for the effort.

[EFerrari]

4. That's well done, Robb. Now what about gender, sexual orientation and practice?

[Robb]

7. Practice makes perfect?

:shrug:

:D

[Bucky]

9. Don't let the perfect be...

... the enemy of the "goods."

[EFerrari]

14. I just love you guys, in a non-practicng way, of course.

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

13. Yes you can.

:)

[Bucky]

8. Such a question would discriminate against people who don't have to practice.

Sadly, I still need a LOT of practice

[EFerrari]

11. LOL

:spank:

(And no, that doesn't count.)

[divvy]

17. I think Gender and Sexual Orientation polls would be interesting.

also:

Do you own a gun

[EFerrari]

21. Can we please keep the guns away from the sexual practice question?

Accidents happen.

[divvy]

45. I don't own a gun myself.

There does seem to be a strong gun lobby on DU though. It would be interesting to me to know how many DU'ers really own guns. I have always considered that type of thing to be in the survivalist / right wing camp.

Maybe I have a wrong impression.

[sulphurdunn]

61. You do.

I am a radical leftist, socialist (sometimes), a liberal all the time. I am a professional educator, a Vietnam veteran, and I not only own some guns, I also know how to fight with them, not merely how to shoot targets with them or how to use them as macho props at right wing political rallies. There are lots of us out there. Semper Fi.
:patriot:

[EFerrari]

87. Well, I hope you have mine because I like both of my feet.

:)

[jwirr]

76. This little lady has a whole gun owning family and yes sometimes

survival plays into it even on the left.

[Bucky]

5. The residual market researcher in me wants to gripe about statistical sampling.

The kid in me wants to go Whoopee! I'm still below the median age!

[Gormy Cuss]

yeah, there's potential for a substantial self-selection bias in DU polls.

They're fun, but not necessarily that close to the real distribution of demographics.

[EFerrari]

31. Are you saying we lie?

LOL

[Gormy Cuss]

47. Never, m'dear.

I'm saying that the characteristics of those who choose to participate may not be representative of the whole of DU.

[EFerrari]

86. Yep. In a group this size, the participants are usually

not even a quarter of the whole.

[NYC_SKP]

6. Pretty Pie Charts! Hmmm. Nothing about pet ownership.

.
wtf?




:P

knr

[Gormy Cuss]

49. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=9301738&mesg_id=9301738

No pie chart...

[NYC_SKP]

74. Thanks. Need a new OP: "Dog lovers, DU this Poll!!!"

Cats are ahead. I suspect cat participation, messing with polls, dogs would never do this.

[xchrom]

10. Recommend

[progressoid]

12. Dang, I missed the whole thing.

Doesn't matter really. It appears I'm your typical DUer.

[SPedigrees]

20. Same here. My demographic is pretty well represented on all counts.

Thanks for doing this poll!

[NeedleCast]

15. Cool

Thanks for the work you put in on this.

[Political Heretic]

16. So, when I point out that DU is majority white, majority upper middle class or better,

and majority graduate or post-grad educated, (and majority male, but that didn't make it into the list I guess) - people can't stop telling me how wrong I am.

Deal?

[EFerrari]

23. Majority female. Then, deal.

:)

[Political Heretic]

25. Is it?

Huh...

[EFerrari]

26. I don't know about Robb's poll

but the last time the admins took one, we ruled here. :)

[Political Heretic]

36. Well, ok then!

[EFerrari]

37. Don't tell anyone. It's a secret.

:)

[Political Heretic]

38. In the words of Marvin the paranoid android upon seeing god's final message to creation:

"I think... I feel good about it."

:)

[EFerrari]

43. LOL

I want to go back and reread all of his Wisdom. :)

[MercutioATC]

44. Over 50% make less than $50k/year.

How does that equate to "majority middle upper class or better"?

[Political Heretic]

65. Actually, over 50% make 50,000 or more.

How many are currently completely unemployed due to this depression?

Who, when returning to employment, will be taking jobs in the 50,000+ range?


oooo stroky beard moment.

[MellowDem]

68. Actually, no...

check your math. And do realize that these polls actually mean nothing. Really. This is not an accurate polling sample.

[Political Heretic]

73. What I realize is that its laughable

to defend against something as transparently obvious as the demographics of the "liberal netroots."

Furthermore, DailyKOS DID have an actual study, conducted by independent research firm, that looked at its demographics.

Over 60% had average incomes of 70k and up. The over whelming majority were white.

I see no reason to suspect anything different at DU, especially when the class disconnect reflected daily is so undeniably thick.

I'd rather people just recognized the reality and attempt to mitigate the bias it creates, rather than deny something so obvious.

EDIT - I had to work my ass off on this, but I FINALLY found the link to the old research:

http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/10139.asp

[MellowDem]

77. What I find funny...

is that you feel you must attack the demographics of the "liberal netroots."

I don't think that the members of DU will quite fit the same definition as the "liberal netroots" either.

Is there some law somewhere stating that all views and perspectives must be represented equally, that all demographics must be proportionally represented to have a good discussion? You'll have a hard time finding a forum anywhere that can give you that.

There is bias on any site or in any group, so I don't think you'll be able to escape it. It seems like you are frusterated because you want more of your own perspectives represented. But that's not really the point of forums, and if anything, you can see this as an opportunity to share your perspectives with others who traditionally don't know them, and hopefully to learn things yourself by seeing theirs. There are multiple forums and sources to get different perspectives, but I don't expect to find them all in one place.

What you see as obvious bias could just be your own prejudices and assumptions. I once saw someone post about how most people earning 10,000 a year have medical insurance through their employers. Several posters automatically figured that that poster was a biased affluent person to state something like that, and attacked them as such. Turns out the OP had quite a low income and was just misinformed. That's what prejudice will get you.

[Political Heretic]

85. How exactly have I attacked it?

:shrug:

I think its good that we know who were are - pretty much exactly as I said in the last sentence or so of my previous post to you. We need to understand the things that color our perceptions and recognize the things that potentially could serve as biases so that we can not be slaves to them.

Not sure why exactly that's "problematic" for you?

60% of visitors to KOS had incomes of %75,000+. Does that mean there or jerks and assholes? Of course not. Does it reflect that KOS is majority represented by a very tiny income minority? Yes, it does. And its great to take note of that and be sensitive to it. The more we recognize our biases or our context - the better we reason.

I can give you a personal example of that - I believe that class divide is a serious source of great problem in our politics and economics. But I recognize that this can cause bias, so that if I'm not careful I can overgeneralize about class differences or stereotypes.

Consequently, when I'm talking about class issues, I frequently stop and insert disclaimers / reminders - reminding the reader, but mostly reminding myself, that individuals vary as context vary, and "group" lables are usually stereotypes - there are rich people deeply committed to social and economic justice and there are poor people opposing and undermining equality at every turn. I tend to make myself write that, and remember that as I go on talking about class divides in our society and politics.

Why wouldn't we want to know that the netroots is primarily upper educated, upper income bracket white people? I myself am everything in that statement except upper income. So? But I also know that being white means that I grapple with the realities of white privilege and do not always fully appreciate the experience of persons of color in the United States. As an upper educated person I do not always fully appreciate the challenges of seeking education opportunities or jobs without college degrees.... and so on.

I say again, why would we not what to know who we are? If we're predominately white, we are predominately white. That's not an insult. It's a reality. If we are predominantly upper class, then we are. Rather than being offended that someone "dare" speak these things, we could instead accept our demographic reality and remember the ways in which our own culture, experience and context can potentially make us out of touch with the experiences of a large number of people who are not upper class, who are not upper educate and who are not white.

That's what I want to do. Seems like it would be a good idea for everyone.

:shrug:

[MellowDem]

88. I guess your tone comes across as sarcastic...

and cynical sometimes when referring to DU, which is why I thought you were "attacking" the demographics that are in it. I've also seen other posters do the same, saying that DU represents the bourgeois etc. etc. Sorry if I misinterpreted your tone or intentions or mixed you up with previous posters.

I don't think it's an insult to acknowledge demographic realities (of which these polls do not represent), but it almost always leads to stereotyping on here of whites, upper income, educated, etc. And on here, that kind of stereotyping is generally accepted where no other kind is and used as an argument. I think that it is lazy thinking and destructive.

Why, we recently just had someone post a thread on how they were sick of whites on here talking about health care, because DU must be mostly upper income, and what could upper income whites contribute to the discussion on health care? And this poster had over 1000 posts. The thread did eventually get locked, but that is a visible and often acceptable attitude on here. Other posters are just smart enough not to say it, they just point out DU is white or upper income, and that in and of itself is an argument.

I don't like to inform people of my race, salary, and education when discussing issues, because many people will make (false) assumptions and base the discussion on it. It becomes a distraction and encourages lazy thinking. White privilege is perhaps the greatest example of "lazy thinking". I'm white, so I'm automatically privileged. How much or how so? Well, it doesn't really matter, it's just a generic term and "fact" that covers all whites. It's one of those great ways to discourage discussion. I'm white, so I shouldn't talk about this or that, because of my white privilege. I suppose no one should talk about poverty unless they've lived it. But then how will you ever learn things? I'm aware of my perspective, but having a different perspective doesn't discourage me from partaking in discussions or embody a whole argument.

I know who I am, and who I am doesn't conform with what is thought of as "white", or whatever income and education level. I don't identify on those things, though plenty of people do. And I think that is the main problem. People identify themselves and others by such societal standards and expect everyone else to do the same. If you don't, you mess up the easy, lazy thinking, which upsets them.

[Political Heretic]

107. I don't feel responsible for your interpretation of my tone.

:(

[Robb]

109. You should.

As a communicator, it falls to you.

[Chulanowa]

101. You and me both

it would seem that most of the "involved" DU'ers are speaking from privilege.

[Morning Dew]

18. And look at how this poll was written.

“Can you say it was done openly, with transparency and accountability? Without backroom deals, and struck behind closed doors, hidden from the people?

“Hell no, you can’t!

“Have you read the poll? Have you read the reconciliation poll? Have you read the manager’s poll?

“Hell no, you haven’t!


/boehner


Good work, Robb.
:)

[xultar]

19. What's with the high Geezer quotient?

Ahhh that explains it crabby geezers.

I get it.

:hide:

[EFerrari]

22. It means we rule.

:rofl:

[xultar]

27. Pretty much.

[EFerrari]

29. Don't worry, sweetie. The Death Panels will take care of us shortly.

lol

:hi:

[CTyankee]

42. It means we have TIME to participate as so many of us were "encouraged" to leave

our jobs in our 50s and early 60s...

[eridani]

46. +10

Of course, we also have time to be kick-ass activists, which quite a few of us are.

[CTyankee]

59. Really! I was "encouraged" to leave my full time job. I had a frail elderly mother and

a disabled brother in a nursing home and was responsible for both of their care. As a woman in our society I paid a heavy price for helping care for them and I am not complaining (if anyhing, I wish I could have had MORE time to help them). I never took more time than I had accrued, BTW.

We're the ones, male or female, who are the "last ones standing." We have to sell the family house, be the Power of Attorney, admit to nursing homes, have the papers in order to execute the POA on financial dealings. It is an awesome duty. Doing it with a full time job is pretty much impossible.

Yet we do it because we are called to it when we least anticipate it...we think everything will go on forever and of course it can't. It's just a fantasy.

Right after my brother died suddenly, my daughter went into the hospital with a severe case of pre-eclampsia in the late 8th month of her pregnancy. She was in extremis, with her blood platelets reducing by the moment, and she had to have an emergency C section.

All of this was going on with my job still being threatened (I was one of 6 women over the age of 60 that were finally gotten rid of at this organization). I announced my resignation 7 months in advance and was allowed to stay until then. It was a good strategy at the time...

I am happy to say that my grandson is fine. I buried my brother and my mother with dignity and with love. Everything was fine. It was a heavy lift, but it was not lacking in care and I am proudest of that achievement in my life over anything else...

[eridani]

75. Indeed. So much for the notion that those of us "not in the labor force"

--no longer contribute anything and are just dead weight.

[SPedigrees]

24. Yeah, I'm just a crabby old, college educated white geezer. In good company it seems. nt

[EFerrari]

28. Welcome to the effing cranky club

(that I pass in at times.)

:rofl:

[SPedigrees]

32. lol it takes one to know one. :-) nt

[JBoy]

40. Seriously, looks like the median age is about 50

I can't believe I'm below that!

I'm still on the cool side of the bus!

[Robb]

48. The cool side of the bus?

On DU, I believe that's the underneath side. :D

[RainDog]

30. great work

how about one based upon people's "rankings" on that test thing... I'm left libertarian, me and the His Holiness the D.L. :)

anyway, but one based upon the actual # ascribed.

[Hekate]

33. KnR Robb. I participated despite misgivings about accuracy and purpose...

Nonetheless I'll be glad to see the conversation that ensues. :hi:

Hekate

[gleaner]

34. You shouldn't have clarified the "degree seeking" ..

category. I kind of liked the idea of all those degree seeking studs running around here. It would have made posting interesting for those seeking degree seeking studs and given everyone a new greeting. "Hey, stud." Almost as good as "Duuuuuuuude," but then I don't see that here anyway. Must be a California thing. Here in LA there is so much Dudeness, you can't imagine.

[bigwillq]

35. Cool charts.

Thanks for compiling this information.

[nonconformist]

39. Bummer, I missed it.

[hlthe2b]

41. I wonder how representative the age is ?

We're sort of an "experienced" lot, I'll put it that way....;)

[Odin2005]

50. I think there are too many of you old farts here! (j/k)

:rofl: :hi:

[kestrel91316]

51. How did I miss these polls altogether, lol? I was gone all day Sunday -

that must be why.......

[Hissyspit]

55. I missed them, too. Not sure how.

I was here all weekend, although I had a lot of stuff to do. You sure can miss a lot if you take a day off! :-)

[Number23]

60. I completely missed them as well. Not that it appears to matter all that much

I doubt my demographics would have done much to change the overall "oldness" and "whiteness" that is DU. :)

[Kind of Blue]

97. Number23, you're too funny!

:rofl: That was exactly my thought before I decided to participate anyway. Except for the whiteness part, I really thought DU was filled with a bunch of very young people.

[Number23]

108. Girl, it just SOUNDS like 2/3 of the people here are 14. And FEELS that way

And when you think that the folks here who are the most immature, ungracious, petulant and unreasonable are (coincidentally or not) also some of the OLDEST mf's in this joint, it just makes you shake your head and be damned glad that this place is the entire extent of the contact you'll have with them. :)

[Kind of Blue]

110. Indeed, it's too bad that more people didn't participate.

I mean I know our number is very small but it would be cool to see, given how massive the number of DU registered users, if there are more young people who are not as ungracious as us older people. So a Pew Research of the Millennial Generation (18-29) seems to make a lot of sense, given the nastiness on this site many times.

"They're Democratic. They voted very heavily for Barack Obama. They're a little less supportive of Obama today, but still - compared to other generations - they are more supportive of the Democratic Party. They're more supportive of Barack Obama.

They have a positive view of government - a more positive view of government, at least, than other generations. And they even supported higher rates, relatively higher rates, such things as affirmative action with preferential treatment for minorities."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124052182

[Lasher]

62. I missed them too and I was here Sunday.

But there was that basketball game Sunday...

Yay Mountaineers!

[bridgit]

52. Dang Robb, that's pretty cool thanks for the file management

:toast: This was uber-cool though, made me laugh :spray:

[Robb]

64. I'm not ashamed to admit

...that's probably my favorite part of the whole thing. Turned out better than I ever thought it would. :D

[Nikki Stone1]

53. Overwhelmingly white and educated with about 40% making over 75 K

Why am I not surprised.

[Arctic Dave]

63. I'm a half breed that makes over 100,000 on a good year.

I'm whats called an anomaly. :)

[MellowDem]

70. Does this confirm your prejudice?

Well, it is not a scientific poll, but what the heck, that doesn't stop FOX news.

[spanone]

54. k&r nice work.

:thumbsup: :hi:

[hayu_lol]

58. An addenda item for your next poll...

EMPLOYED

UNDEREMPLOYED

UNEMPLOYED

NO LONGER LOOKING

Might get some interesting results.

Good job with what you have. Can almost visualize a Bell Curve from the pie charts.

[crazy_vanilla]

56. see, I told those morans at the CNN discussion board

that we lib'ruls are not only more beautiful/handsome :evilgrin: but also more intelligent and better educated than they are ....

[zanana1]

57. Now I feel less poor, but stupid. nt

[applegrove]

66. Cool.

[Liberal_in_LA]

67. Interesting stuff. Nice writeup and charts

[JustAnotherGen]

69. Cool to see - thanks

I wasn't around much this weekend - so did not participate.

Now where are the early 20-somethings? And it's neat to see the much older DU'ers. They've seen everything. BTDT - have t-shirts. I'd like a thread just for them to tell us how they feel about the health care reform bill. A time capsule of sorts.

[nutsnberries]

71. hey dingbat -

nice! thanks. :)

[HughMoran]

72. Nice pies

Obama likes pie.

Looks like I'm still in the majority in every category except income which is almost evenly spread.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

78. Good work.

[depakid]

79. In other words, most of DU is poor, white, educated... and old.

[Ysabel]

81. hahaha... :)

[SoDesuKa]

90. Poor, White, Educated... and Old

Wow! I fit right in!

[Ysabel]

82. thanks robb / interesting...

:)

[live love laugh]

83. So DU is just a bunch of elitists with all that edumocation and whatnot...

:sarcasm:

[jannyk]

84. Great work! Interesting Results. k&r

[Warren DeMontague]

89. I knew it. DU is like a big, white, Pac-Man.

[autorank]

91. k*r Excellent work!!!

This was done before but not in this level of detail. Nice work, very interesting.

[howard112211]

92. The age demographic surprises me.

On some days I get the impression that the bulk of people here range between 13 and 25 ;)

[howard112211]

93. To summarize: DU is Brian from Family Guy

:)

[mmonk]

94. Thanks for your work.

[Lifelong Protester]

95. Now I see why we can usually spell things correctly

I missed the polls too, and was here all weekend.

But I fit in with the demo pretty well. Old(er), white, lots of edumacation, and make a comfortable living.

[Robb]

96. I want to find and have a party with the other 8

...who managed to get this far without a high school diploma, or anything else.

I'm quite serious. As I've told many a boss during a performance review, "And to think, I couldn't get an interview at a gas station, yet you hired me." :D

[snooper2]

98. So, half the people on DU

are 50+ white folks with a BS or PHD and make less than 50K a year :P

[uponit7771]

99. I wonder what the education stats are on other forums?

[Hamlette]

100. I would love to see how we compare to the rest of the country/world

hint hint

[rapturedbyrobots]

102. poor old white folks with a college degree

could've guessed that much from reading the posts.

[Scurrilous]

103. K & R

:thumbsup:

[elocs]

104. I am sorry that the income poll could not be structured to show how many of us DUers

are living at or below the poverty level. That should have been important to know also.

[matt819]

105. Very colorful

Love pie charts. While on the subject of charts, what the hell is a pivot chart, and has any human alive created one?

I'm sorry I missed this poll. It sure would have been interesting if more people had responded. Maybe keep it pinned to all discussion groups for an extended period of time? Also, geographic distribution would have been interesting, though DU admins can get this from IP addresses.

Like others, I was struck by the fairly even income distribution and the age ranges.

[OswegoAtheist]

106. Even if the text was cut off...

it still applies. I'm a degree-seeking stud.

Oswego "nailed it" Atheist