Lets face it.If Republicans were in the Majority and passed this

[INdemo]

same healthcare bill this discussion forum would be full of criticism. I agree with Michael Moore..This is anything but real healthcare reform and it is something the Republicans would have drafted. It is written by insurance lobbyists and we are suppose automatically accept it with praise for this President for finally getting healthcare reform through ??

[zbdent]

1. Let's face it ... the Republicans were in power, in the Majority, ran the White House,

the SCOTUS, the House, the Senate, and pretty much the "liberal media" ...

and they didn't pass shit for health care for the non-millionaires. Just "tax credits" if you could put money away that most people needed to use to pay for food and shelter.

[babylonsister]

3. +brazillion! nt

[Warren Stupidity]

11. +infinity

somehow it just isn't ever on their radar when they are running things.

[depakid]

16. How quickly we forget Medicare Part D

and all of the shenanigans that went on until wee hours of the night.

[geckosfeet]

2. I am glad for the dems ability to get this through. It is a success simply

from the perspective of the legislative process. I celebrate that victory. Yes, it's a big ugly sausage, but the dems got it done. I celebrate that. I also celebrate the first step along that long path to universal health care FOR EVERYONE.

Yes, the bill is also a giveaway to the insurance companies. It guarantees them a cash cow in perpetuity. This had to be done in order to force them to provide health insurance FOR EVERYONE

I am sure that the bill has many other omissions and crippling compromises made to get it past the republics in our government. But it is a victory.

Had the republics passed it, I would still celebrate the positives.

[INdemo]

13. OK..but with a Majority why not pass real healthcare reform

and the hell with the Repukes..This is why I am so disappointed with the Democrats...During the Republican Majority they passed every single piece of legislation they wanted to and the Democrats sat back and watched it sail by them and become law and didnt say sh^t.
Now Democrats think they have to check the rule book and include Republicans on every single discussion and allow the Repukes to force them into this near legislative deadlock Why?
It will take years if ever to amend this bill to provide real reform.
The reason, we allowed the insurance industry to launch the media blitz with millions to spend and we did not respond and they got away with convincing the public that it was a government take over of the healthcare industry.
Next time the insurance companies will have even more $$ to guarantee healthcare reform will again crumble..
We had real healthcare reform within our grasp and this Democratic controlled Congress and this President blew it.

[geckosfeet]

36. I wonder why as well. The dems simply mounted no offensive to health

insurance industry media blitz. Nothing. I suspect that the lobbyists were handing out cash.

Another issue is the blue dog dems. These people seems like they are working for the repubs. When the repubs had both houses they twisted arms and slapped member around to keep them in line on votes. The dems just don't seem to want to do that.

[salguine]

20. For whom? I couldn't read that.

[cali]

4. let's face it, this place is full of criticism

and I'll repeat what I've said the many other times this exact same "thought" has been posted: It's better than the status quo.

[zbdent]

5. Dems/Libs are criticized, attacked, called socialists & communists

for trying to do something about problems ...

Repugs/Conservatives choose to do nothing about problems other than attack someone who points them out ... and they're called "patriots" in the media ...

[rucky]

6. They would've only passed the mandate - and a few tax cuts for the wealthy.

And some "tort reform"

[katmondoo]

7. They would have put a donut hole in it

[zbdent]

12. There's a part of "Medicare Part D" that sounds like it's mandatory

even though the language says it's "voluntary" ...

From Wikipedia:

"Enrollment for most beneficiaries is voluntary. The initial enrollment period took place from November 15, 2005 through May 15, 2006. Potential beneficiaries who did not enroll by the May 15 deadline (or within a given time frame after their initial eligibility date) incurred a late-enrollment penalty of 1% per month based on the average cost of the premium until their enrollment."

That sounds like a penalty to me ...

[CBR]

8. The GOP would have never passed this bill. nt

[fasttense]

9. The RepubliCONS would never have passed this bill because

it establishes a precedent that implies health care is a right.

They may have given out a few tax cuts to their cronies while laughing at the Tea-baggers, they may have passed health insurance mandates while getting bribes from corporations but they never would have passed this health care bill. Never in a million years or even 8 years.

[pampango]

17. Not only WOULD they never pass this bill, they ACTUALLY NEVER DID. They had plenty of

opportunity to do so when they had the White House and controlled Congress.

We don't have to speculate on what the republicans would have done with a majority. The evidence is right there.

[depakid]

18. It does no such thing- in fact it implies the opposite

And in the event you missed it, Republicans proposed very much the same thing(s) several times since the 1970's.

Beginning here:

Nixon's Plan For Health Reform, In His Own Words

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[Bluerthanblue]

22. ummm... "several times?" or are you seriously buying into their

empty lies about not being against reform- like those who tried to say they want scrap the bill and "start over" when they saw that this really had a chance of passing?

Nixon's plan didn't get off the ground, and wasn't seriously brought into possibility by any of the republicans since it's inception. They DON'T want to cover American citizens- the concept doesn't fit into the mindset of what has morphed into the republican party mentality.

:shrug:

The unofficial god of the republican party Ronald Reagan said this about the concept of universal health care:

...REAGAN: Now back in 1927 an American socialist, Norman Thomas, six times candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, said the American people would never vote for socialism. But he said under the name of liberalism the American people will adopt every fragment of the socialist program.

There are many ways in which our government has invaded the precincts of private citizens, the method of earning a living. But at the moment I'd like to talk about another way because this trip is with us and at the moment is more imminent.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can't afford it.

Now, the American people, if you put it to them about socialized medicine and gave them a chance to choose, would unhesitatingly vote against it. We had an example of this. Under the Truman administration it was proposed that we have a compulsory health insurance program for all people in the United States, and, of course, the American people unhesitatingly rejected this.

So with the American people on record as not wanting socialized medicine, Congressman Ferrand said, if we can only break through and get our foot inside the door, they can we can expand the program after that. Well, let's see what the socialists themselves had to say about it. They say once the Ferrand bill is passed, this nation will be provided with a mechanism for socialized medicine capable of indefinite expansion in every direction until it includes the entire population. Well, we can't say we haven't been warned.

James Madison in 1788, speaking to the Virginia Convention said: “Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations.”

*emphasis mine

BTW, Reagan was arguing against the creation of what became the MEDICARE program. :shrug:

[depakid]

25. Just a matter of history

Whether the proposals were successful- or whether enough of party wanted to or would have gone along with each of the proposals when they were put forth isn't the point.
'
One could say the same thing about Southern Democrats thwarting Truman's efforts (for fear of hospital desegregation).

[Bluerthanblue]

26. no, you claimed that the proposal DIDN'T imply that

the goal was universal health care-

and Reagan's words (often quoted by Republicans) speak just the opposite.

Also Pres.Obama's words before being elected also underscore his perspective:

"... It is my belief that not just politically but also economically, it's better for us to start getting a system in place — a universal health care system — signed into law by the end of my first term as president and build off that system to further — to make it more rational — by the way, Canada did not start off immediately with a single-payer system. They had a similar transition step.

Transitioning a system is a very difficult and costly and lengthy enterprise. It's not like you could turn on a switch and you go from one system to another.... B Obama

:shrug:

[depakid]

32. The legislation implies that health care is a commodity to be purchased NOT a right

it also implies that there are legitimate levels of health care available to people- bronze's ain't worth too much.

If the legislation contained a mechanism to actually move in the direction of universal health care, based on a two tiered public/private model like Australia's for example, i.e. a robust public option, that would be one thing.

It doesn't do that though. Instead it further entrenches and enriches the inefficient and fragmented commodity/profit model the US already has.

[salguine]

30. What does it mean when you write "RepubliCONS", with "CONS" in caps like that?

[fasttense]

10. Deleted - double post. n/t

[midnight]

14. When the IRS ramps up with it's new surge of employees to get all those to

pay into the coffers of the Insurance mandate, I wonder how many will want to revisit this law?

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Straight out of the RNC talking points.

congratulations!

[cali]

24. disturbing to see the repuke talking points swallowed so obediently.

[Dappleganger]

37. Unbelievable, isn't it?

Those talking points are being used by pretty much every local and regular news station, everywhere.

[A wise Man]

21. How many lives have you saved lately

maybe the life you save might be your own. "WAKE UP!!!!!!"

[pampango]

19. "It is written by insurance lobbyists" who paid republicans to oppose it unanimously, so

that they can credibly run against it in November and "kill the bill" if they are successful. (Or are you suggesting the republicans in congress stood up to the insurance lobbyists and voted for what was best for people. ;) )

I suppose you could piece together a scenario in which insurance lobbyists "bought" both sides - Democrats (including the entire Progressive Caucus) to pass the "industry bill" and the republicans to pretend to oppose it (unanimously), pretend they are going to campaign to "kill the bill" in the fall, and pretend to file law suits questioning the bill's constitutionality.

Glad I'm not playing chess with those insurance lobbyists. :)

[Echo In Light]

28. lol ...oh, the stealthy maneuvering, indeed!

;)

[spanone]

23. blah blah blah

[WeekendWarrior]

27. You're making a bold, bold assumption

that doesn't hold water. The Republicans would never have passed this. Not in this day and age. They aren't even remotely interested in doing something that benefits Americans. They've proven that time and again.

But I'll play anyway. If the Republicans had by some miracle passed this legislation, I'd be stunned, but thankful that millions more people are now insured.

And I would probably like the bill about as much as I like it now, and would hope for a Democratic majority to come in and whip it into shape.

[ecstatic]

29. the forum is full of criticism, including yours

:eyes:

And repugs would NEVER pass a healthcare bill.

[Mari333]

31. american public agrees. this is political baloney not policy making

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7995277

[Robb]

33. Which Michael Moore do you agree with?

MM from today, or yesterday, or Saturday or Friday or last month or last year?

Because he's had all the consistency lately of kindergarten soccer games.

[blindpig]

34. Yep

And the only reason that they are raising hell about it is politics, pure and simple. They probably hate that they can't take credit for it but they gotta appease their 'populist' wing, which is unhappy enough with them as it is. If they had 'played ball' they would have risked a major schism.

k&r

[daa]

35. This plan was written by the Heritage Foundation

in the 1990s and implemented in Mass. by repug Mitt Romney.