Kucinich: If HCR Bill died, HCR would not be possible "for a generation"

[berni_mccoy]

From: http://www.esquire.com/the-side/qa/dennis-kucinich-health-care-bill-032210

In this latest article from Esquire, Rep. Kucinich recounted his meetings with President Obama on HCR. One of his main reasons for changing his vote were, in his own words:

"If the bill were to go down, this whole discussion about anything we might hope to do in health care in the future is not going to happen in this generation. We had to wait sixteen years after the demise of the Clinton plan to come to this moment. And the angst that members are feeling about this bill - the temperature that's been raised in the body politic over this bill, the characterizations of the bill in a debate that's been quite distorted - all of those things argue against bringing up another health care bill in the near future if this bill were to go down. "

I think many DUers, myself included, who were saying this were labelled as "fearmongers". Well, I feel like I'm in good company with Rep. Kucinich.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7971081

[Cha]

1. One net Rec..that was probably

mine:P

[onenote]

24. delete - wrong place

[liberal N proud]

2. That was what I was trying to tell people

No one wanted to listen. So those who felt that it didn't go far enough yelled Not Enough and those who didn't want it at all yelled Keep your Hands off My Medicare and everyone was lumped together by the pollsters to give the pundits the statistics to say most Americans didn't want reform.

Thank you Dennis.

[EFerrari]

3. What I'll remember about this discussion at DU is your brazillion threads

trashing Dennis, who you are now using to justify your position.

That's just embarrassing.

[cali]

4. when you're right you're right.

this is just embarrassing.

[laughingliberal]

5. Pretzels. nt

[joeybee12]

8. Amazing isn't it...and they accused us of throwing him under the bus

over this...then they canonize him.

[PVnRT]

11. +1

The hypocrisy is astounding.

[berni_mccoy]

12. It must really suck for you to be on the wrong side of the argument.

Especially when you were on the same side of the issue as Teabaggers.

[Prism]

17. Well, this is desperate

Then again, you think public educators and single-payer advocates are anti-governmental types, so maybe your idea of who is and isn't a Teabagger is a little skewed.

I wouldn't be shocked to find next week's meme is something along the lines of "Socialists - The most right-wing group in America?"

Some people know the words but have never heard the music, ya know?

[EFerrari]

18. Vintage bernie.

:)

[cali]

19. but I haven't been on what you call the wrong side of the argument

and sorry, you did write really vicious ops about Kucinich, over and over and over again. So yeah, this does kind of reek of hypocrisy.

[berni_mccoy]

23. Point to one or you're full of shit.

[demmiblue]

22. This

:thumbsup:

[JVS]

40. Well said.

[leftstreet]

53. +1

[optimator]

6. will another bill be brought up?

better hurry.
Only about 6 months left.

[bluestateguy]

7. Indeed

He proved to be far more pragmatic and reasonable than I had been giving him credit for.

[pampango]

9. Yep, we can argue our preferences of what coulda and shoulda been in the bill, but at the end

DK is right, the vote was obvious. The Progressive Caucus ("Yes")and the republicans ("No") all voted the way they should.

[Prism]

10. That's how blackmail works. This isn't news.

"Go along with my demands, or else terrible things will happen."

I realize you posted this to buttress your unquestioning support for all things President Obama, but all it really does is remind me how brazen and pitiless politicians truly are.

[Skidmore]

14. No, It's the freaking truth.

It took a generation to get to the point where it could even make it on the table. Get your head out of your tush and deal with the real world. I'm fed up with this sort of idiocy.

[Prism]

15. No, people need to stop surrendering to the political fortunes of a politician

Who says they cannot rework health care? Who? You? Me? Are we telling the politicians "Sorry, you only get one chance at this, and if you totally fuck it up, oh well. We'll be ok, because we know you can only do things every couple of decades." Who has let them think that is a perfectly acceptable way of doing the people's business?

When you accept this "Sorry, we can't get this done for another twenty years" you're surrendering to the Washington status quo. Remember, that thing Candidate Obama wanted to tackle?

They work for us. They're our employees. If we made enough noise about it and told them to get back to work on this, they would do so. If they thought the people would say "This is not good enough. Do it over, and right this time. Or else your seat may not be waiting for you in November," how quick do you think those politicians would move?

Pretty quick, I'd say.

But the "Any crumbs will do as long as we win!" crowd who buy into this nonsense empower the politicians to behave this way. You accept this. You tell them it's ok. And you blast people who think Americans' deserve a hell of a lot more.

Whose side are you on?

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Give me a whip count

for what I WANT and YOU WANT.

Alas there is no whip count for that...

This is a start, and even Dennis recognizes this, because well shit, he is PART OF THE HOUSE and he knows that there is no whip count for anything more progressive and to my true liking.

It is time for some folks to go back to school and take a VERY BASIC poli sci course, and LEARN how this shit actually happens.

[Prism]

33. The House passed the public option

And here is what is plain as day. When it came down to the end, when the President said "This needs to be done, period." suddenly there was fighting and arm-twisting and dealing galore. Right now, we're reading article after article after article about what a fighter the President is.

Where was this fighting back in August? October? December? Last month? Where was all this happening when the Left was screaming "They're going to get rid of the public option!" or when we protested mandates? We watched the White House fold to Baucus and Lieberman like a cheap suit. I mean, surrender is probably too weak a word. They marched themselves in, self-cuffed, and threw themselves on their own swords for someone else's victory.

And the entire time it was happening, who was fighting against us? Our own party. Half this message board. People way too willing to say "Whatever the politicians want is fine. Go team!"

We have no idea what we could've gotten out of the Senate, because they didn't even try. They didn't bother. And they knew enough people would apologize for it. If the President had even made a passing attempt at swaying the Senate, I don't think I would be half as pissed about this bill. But that's not what happened.

I think you need to go back to school and crack open a history book. When great presidents needed to crack Congressional heads to get what they really, truly wanted, they did not hesitate to do so. This President didn't so much as lift one finger as Baucus, Lieberman, and others calmly and methodically gutted this bill.

And the apologists let them get away with it until the very end.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Is there a whip count in the Senate

You know this bicameral thing we got going here?

And no it is not being an apologist... until you and I can overcome a VERY CONSERVATIVE fly over country, those of us who live on them fucking coasts will not be able to get this done on a first try. That is reality.

I know it is complex, but shit, that is POLI SCI 101

Oh and like it or not, that shit is... in the damn Constitution. Granted it has a few problems, as in gaping holes, but that is the way it is.

On of those "gaping holes" is the protection of the minority, which happens to be ... those who DO NOT want any reform... so we got what we could get in this country.

Now once you got five to seven successor states, yes it does increasingly look we are going that way... you can build utopia. Until then the REALITY IS we do not have a whip count in both houses... that is the CURRENT reality. I am sorry, I like to live in reality.

Of course the other reality is that this bill is actually better than the SS Act of 1935 and look how much that one got ahem improved upon.

And the other reality is that this is about as good as the Medicare Act of 1965, another dog... tell me how much has that one been improved upon?

Now if that makes me an apologist... well son (daughter) your counterparts in both '35 and '65 called both Acts terrible mistakes and selling out. And of course the counterparts of the teabaggers called them the end of the world and SOCIALISM (RUN FOR THEM HILLS! PROTECT WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!!)

Now the difference is that we did not quite have stones, bricks and a few other lovely things happening (Wait that happened in the 30s, I am sorry, and the sixties too, sorry)... but hey, what is that about history? Now I will say it now, the GOP did not egg them on. That is a critical and basic difference.

[Prism]

46. False comparisons

This is not Social Security or Medicare. Those are government entitlement programs paid via taxes for a guaranteed benefit, not a lashing of the American people to a corporate profit system by force of law without any guarantee that the care they need will be forthcoming. When making all of your comparisons, it would be sound to make sure the same fruit are being tossed in the air during the sleight of hand.

Which part of flyover country is Connecticut a part of? I know it's a small state, but I don't think it's a bastion of small government right-wingers.

But you know what? This is about the billionth time this conversation has been had on this board, and it's the same tired answers every single time. We have a horrible bill without the major items the President campaigned on, we have a Senate that did precisely as they pleased without so much as an arched eyebrow from the direction of the White House, and now we have all these "First step! Fix it later" declarations from the same people who were as wrong as wrong could be about the direction this bill was going in. The liberal objectors were correct throughout this process. What we warned against (and were vigorously told would never ever happen) happened repeatedly. Every single time.

Forgive me if I see pointlessness in bothering to convince when we're working with such a magnificent credibility gap. The defenders of this legislation through the entire process were totally wrong about mandates, the public option, subsides, affordability, and the extent of coverage. Now those same people hold a crystal ball on how wonderful it's all going to be in the end?

Definition of insanity and all that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I guess the poli sci insturctor who gave me that lecture

on why things don't happen the way we wish back in 1985 was a fool too.

I was really damned confused as to why the MAJORITY could not get things done... I mean majority and all that.

Now if you think this is insanity, well there are some glaring holes in the Constitution. One of them has to do with factions, and how the system ahem encourages two dominant factions.

Alas until that little issue is changed... and good luck getting that done.

And yes, if you think I am insane for getting it, then damn it, guilty as charged.

Is that insanity covered under my plan?

[dflprincess]

13. I did rec this

but I can't find where Kucinich ever referred to the insurance bill as the "health care reform (or HCR) bill" in the article. He refers to it as "the bill" or "this bill". At one point he says we need a comprehensive approach to health care reform and at another he says he will continue his effort for a broader approach to health care reform.

But he never refers to this bill as HCR.


The quote the title of the OP is paraphrasing is:

"If the bill were to go down, this whole discussion about anything we might hope to do in health care in the future is not going to happen in this generation."

[rapturedbyrobots]

30. good catch

that is VERY disingenuous.

[earth mom]

16. I'm not happy with Dennis for selling out or being coerced which is what sounds like happened.

I don't trust him now and feel that there is no one left in DC that I feel will work for the people no matter what. :cry:

[pampango]

29. 79 in the Progressive Caucus and not a one to be trusted? I don't always agree with DK, but

I would not see him as a sell-out or subject to coercion. DK will get reelected for as long as he wants.

I'm sure he hated much of what was in the bill, but is it not possible that, in the final analysis, he decided that a "Yes" vote was better for the future of HCR than a "No" vote would be. It's not like he broke ranks with the other progressives in the House. They all voted "Yes".

[earth mom]

34. Sorry-but Dennis was a hold out until Obama took him up in Air Force 1.

Dennis swore up and down that he was going to fight for the people and do the right thing and fight against the mandate/crap bill and then suddenly after that plane trip he changed his vote.

Believe what you want but I'm not fooled.

[WeDidIt]

20. Now I will join wiht my brethren and support the ideas Kucinich has put forth

Damned straight he's got the right ideas, but without a foundational framework to work from, those ideas would never see the light of day.

I'm proud of what Kucinich did in the end and apologize for all disparaging remarks I have made against him during this debate. end of the day, he did the right thing to make sure he could continue to advance his agenda. An agenda I happen to agree with on a philosophical level.

[DevonRex]

25. I think all of us agree with Kucinich's ideas. Some folks mistakenly

believe that we don't. And now Kucinich has dealt with the reality that exists in Congress. It surprised me and I'm very happy to see that he has a practical side.

[DevonRex]

21. I agree with Kucinich. And I'm sure this is the main reason he voted yes.

We've seen for ourselves how long it took for health care to be brought up again. That's real world evidence that can't be denied.

[onenote]

26. DK just sent out a fundraising appeal on behalf of the DCCC

I have been critical of DK in the past because he has struck me as not being a particularly good "team" player in an arena -- politics -- in which being a team player is often an essential element of becoming a leader (as odd as that might sound to some). In any event, I offered kudos to DK for stepping up when needed on the HCR vote and I will salute him again for this effort on behalf of the party. I think this is a good sign -- with these recent acts DK is becoming the leader that we need for him to be.



On Tuesday, I was present with Democratic Members of Congress and witnessed an historic ceremony at the White House, where President Obama signed health care reform into law. I am pleased to have played a role in helping to make this important moment possible.

For we Democrats united to prove to millions of Americans that we could rise above our disagreements and elevate the health of the people of our nation to the highest priority. Even those of us, such as myself, who felt the bill should have gone farther understand the great progress that Democrats have made in overcoming extraordinary resistance to chart a new beginning for our nation.

And our continued progress depends upon your continued financial support for our party.

Contribute $5, $10 or more before our critical FEC deadline March 31st.

Today the American people have a renewed confidence in our Democratic Party. Today the American people know that we have made an important first step toward reforming a health care system that has been unaffordable and inaccessible. Our ability to take further bold steps will depend upon you and your support.

There is much more work which needs to be done, not only in health care, but in putting America back to work, helping to keep people in their homes, broadening educational opportunities, making credit more widely available to our small businesses and working for peace. Now we can approach all of these challenges with the knowledge that we have the ability to deliver. Now we can set our sights higher, our horizons broader to achieve great things.

On Sunday, March 21st, we Democrats proved "Yes We Can". Your support will help Democrats in Congress echo the power of the people across the land as we strive to create the America which we know is possible.

Thank you,

Dennis J. Kucinich
United States Congressman

[bigwillq]

28. K and R (nt)

[closeupready]

31. I'm starting to feel that maybe my opposition to HCR was wrong.

But it was a good fight, not one over cookies or personal perks - so for that, I'm grateful that people aired their concerns.

[LostInAnomie]

32. That's what we were saying when DK and his cult were calling everyone that disagreed "DLC whores".

Nice to see him bow to reason. It's nice to see his cult humbled too.

[earth mom]

35. People were calling you out for pushing the biggest corporate rip off of the people ever seen.

Don't you dare hide behind Dennis now! :grr:

BTW-I just realized that you posted this thread which I didn't realize when I posted earlier!

[berni_mccoy]

45. FYI, Most of DU supported the bill, 97% of liberals did too. Only a small minority were for killing

it.

[earth mom]

52. Where'd you get those numbers? GD-P?

Spare me-I don't believe YOUR numbers for a second. :eyes:

[Feron]

36. Bullshit.

The health insurance industry is in collapse as more and more businesses quit offering insurance and as people fall off the rolls as their paychecks shrink or disappear and premiums rise.

Passing a terrible bill or have nothing is a false dichotomy. They wanted the bill shoved through because it bails out the health insurance industry and if it fails to enshrine private health insurance permanently then it at least allows it to linger longer than it should.

A good bill stands on its merits. When politicians and a bill's proponents resort to scaremongering in order to pass a bill, then it's a safe bet that it is a bad one. I'm interested in facts, not propaganda talking points.

[grahamhgreen]

37. +1

[grahamhgreen]

38. This is not only about healthcare. Obama is supporting war, rendition, FISA law violations, bankster

etc....

We really needed to let him know progressives have power.

Caving on this means our concerns are more likely to be marginalized.

IMHO.

At a minimum, he should have gotten some firm commitments from the president for SOMETHING PROGRESSIVE.

[Cerridwen]

39. The hypocrisy of this OP is breathtaking.

"Well, I feel like I'm in good company with Rep. Kucinich."

Really, berni?



I'm saying this is just more of the same grandstanding by Kucinich that will amount to Nothing.<---and yet you posted over and over and over about this "Nothing".

Kucinich will eventually buckle. That's what he always does. <----of which, you apparently approve -- now.

K&R and thank you Mr. Potter. Kucinich is sooo progressive... He's aligned with the GOP on this issue. He's left all other progressives behind. Thank Mr. Potter <---of course you confuse the gop with progressives.

FDL and Kucinich already are. Norquist and the Teabaggers are happily clapping their hands cheering them on. ~and~ 38. Yes, to PASS HCR. Kucinich wants Bipartisanship to KILL IT. <---of course you can't tell the difference between "teabaggers" and liberals.

Top Two Posts on DKOS Rec-list about Kucinich OK, seriously, Dennis Kucinich. Enough's Enough. <---yeah, berni, "Enough's Enough".

Keep In Mind: Kucinich Voted AGAINST The Public Option (con't) This man is not a progressive. He is not a liberal. He is in this to kill Health Care Reform. (con't) For every Democrat in the Senate who does not vote for Reconciliation on the Public Option, you can fully blame Denis Kucinich. <---um, no, berns, that would have been the anti-choice Dems and the "fiscally responsible as long as it doesn't interfere with my profit" Dems. You're really having a tough time with that whole right versus left comparison, aren't you?

These were just a few of your posts in which you mocked, ridiculed, and attempted to apply guilt-by-association-with-teabaggers/freepers to Rep. Kucinich. And now he's voted your way and you're going to use his vote to prove how right you were all along to mock and ridicule him?


Double standards? Keeeerrrrrist! You've got triple and quadruple standards going. I'm surprised you don't have whiplash from your ever changing mindset. I hope to hell I never have to rely on you or someone like you to cover my back; I'd never know if the planetary alignment qualified me for your protection that minute, day, or week.


Fair weather friends and political gamesmanship; not just for republicans any more.

But, hey, as you noted upthread, at least you were on the right side of the argument. Yeppers; you were right and "we" were...not right.

[berni_mccoy]

41. Each and every one proved out to be true.

It was grandstanding by Kucinich. It amounted to nothing and he did eventually cave.

I will take back that he is not progressive or a liberal. He proved me wrong on that by coming to his senses.

If I were wrong and changed my position to Kucinich's, then that would be a double standard. It is in fact what FDL has done. They've admitted that the HCR Bill is a first step.

Fortunately, Kucinich came to his senses before the vote. But it took many Democrats and the President to bring him around.

[Cerridwen]

43. You need more beads, feathers, and sequins. You need more

Razzle Dazzle

[earth mom]

54. You deserve a high five-no a standing ovation-for proving what hypocrisy the OP is!

:applause: :applause: :applause:


I also want to add that one thing the writer of the OP ignores is WHY Dennis caved.

We should all question why Dennis caved AFTER his meeting with Obama on Air Force 1!

[Cerridwen]

56. :D

Thanks. :hi:

To far too many here, a vote is a vote and they never look deeper. I've heard a lot of people talking about putting legislation together as "sausage making." The "sausages" first made are what goes into a vote before the legislative "sausages" even begin.

[elocs]

44. I've thought the same thing when I read those here who railed against the bill,

that there wouldn't be another chance in a generation for anything else. It's nice that Kucinich was intelligent enough and insightful enough to realize that as well.

[walldude]

47. LMFAO.. yeah another politician who HATED this bill now says it's great that it

passed.. Please.. I saw Kucinich on Bill Mahr, he couldn't come up with a single good word abou tthis bill and that was after he agreed to vote for it.

So you are now using Kucinich to push this meme.. Is it because the other link you were using to the RWF was DEBUNKED?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. "for a generation" says more about our bought out government than health care.

[yurbud]

50. true, but this statement does not preclude fighting for a better bill right up to the end and...

it aint over yet.

[Romulox]

51. Dennis has lost my support. Tell it to the saucer people. nt

[eridani]

55. Indeed. Passing the bill confirmed that every bit as much as not passing it would have n/t