This new Kristallnacht - sponsored by Fox News

[upi402]

All the broken windows prompted by a domestic terrorist, Mike Vanderboegh -who is on socialist Social Security disability- reminds me of Kristallnacht. But this isn't directed at the jews, and it didn't happen on one night.

But it's meant to intimidate and repress. It was incited by hate-filled authoritarians. And the minions would never have been incited to action without propagandists.
Today it's pretty clear to most of us that Fox news talent and Rush Limbaugh are doing the same thing. They exploit the protections of free speech. But the venom and intent to repress and intimidate are more offensive than any naked pictures. And just as dangerous as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.

If the guys who start forest fires to get extra summer work get convicted when their fires kill someone, then Fox News talent and Rush are responsible too. Dick Armey funded the Tea Partiers and Fox has outright promoted their events. They are responsible. Those window breakers would not have acted unless Fox News and Rush incited this much anger.

[upi402]

1. And 9-11 was their Reichstag fire

Go ahead...:popcorn:
I'm protected!:tinfoilhat:

[puebloknot]

2. I told my daughter last night that we are experiencing our own Kristallnacht.

Some will say we're extremists, but it's the same kind of hateful rhetoric that was used to organize the smashing of homes, businesses, synagogues, anything Jewish, all in a few hours across Europe, as WWII and the organized terror against the Jews took hold.

We ignore this little acorn that could grow into a big oak at our own peril!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Since this extremist right wing hatred really owes a lot to the Murdoch/PNAC faction of the right

Maybe they should credit one of it's spokesnazis, and call it....


KristolNacht

[upi402]

5. KristolNacht

Oh noes! It's all too close sometimes.

Reichstag fire allowed the 'assumption of power' by the Nazis. Just like 9-11 allowed the P-Nacsters and neocons to steal power. And now they incite division and open rebellion. They go right up to the line of the law, and bring the whipped-up nutjobs with them. They know there will be violence.

[upi402]

6. kick

This crap usually doesn't worry me, but I think something is up here.
:kick:

[Brickbat]

7. It's not like Kristallnacht at all and I'm getting tired of the comparison.

1. More than 90 people died on Kristallnacht. It was a coordinated pogrom.
2. Tens of thousands of Jews were arrested and sent to concentration camps.
3. Hundreds of businesses, homes and synagogues were burned to the ground.
4. It was perpetrated and encouraged by the state -- the SA and the SS were active participants.

The comparison is invalid, IMO.

[upi402]

8. yet

imo

would you say the Germans were right to accept the escalation and manipulations silently?
and therefore we should sit silently because it doesn't overlay in a 100% direct match?

not me. for me, i'm worried about the denial and manufactured consent here in Amrica, even on DU. but i expect it by now.
there have been no valid investigations here but people are certain the BushCo was 100% innocent. naive.

[Brickbat]

10. Nope, I wouldn't say that at all.

But you probably knew that.

[anigbrowl]

27. +1,000

I don't like this recent wave of violence or Fox News' tacit encouragement of it. but comparing a small number of broken windows with a mass riot, murder and detention carried out by people in uniform is misplaced and cheapens a horrific historical incident for the sake of an ephemeral political point.

Warning against a similar outbreak of highly organized fascist violence in the near future - fair enough. Equating current events with that episode is way overdramatic.

[Nye Bevan]

9. Please stop with the Kristallnacht crap

Anyone who thinks that it is a valid comparison is just showing their ignorance.

[tom_paine]

14. Ahhh, the old "if it doesn't match 100%, it isn't real" defense.

:rofl:

Ever heard of "remarketing and rebranding"? Ever think that maybe totalitarianism has many different forms and sheds it's skin in keeping with the principles of the nation and time period that it is infecting?

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/jaspers02.htm

Ever think that things which bring unpleasant connotations to the discredited "old brand" of Nazism might be avoided when marketing the "new brand" of Inverted Totalitarianism?

No, I don't suppose you did.

Maybe you're right. If it doesn't march up the street wearing swastikas and engaging in much more violent acts, then it simply CAN'T be totalitarianism.

Yup, as long as no one is wearing swastikas and behaving ultra-violently, we're A-OK! 'Cause it can't happen here.

Yup. Uh-huh. No doubt about it and no debate required.

Although you might want to read the link I have provided, written by someone who lived during the rise of Nazism and amongst it.

Maybe not, though. What could someone like that know which you don't already know, right?

[smoogatz]

15. The suggestion that it's analogous to Kristallnacht

is potentially offensive to Jewish people and their friends/families because it trivializes the series of events that marked the "official" beginning of the Holocaust. You can say that the teabaggers' tactics are similar to those employed by the brownshirts--they are--but the magnitude of the two events is nothing alike. Get it now?

[Orsino]

16. We'd sure as hell better recognize the analogy (as you just did)...

...before today's version kills someone, too. We'd better keep track of all the similarities and differences as we measure our responses.

The real Kristallnacht was preceded by relatively minor incidents not much different from those we're seeing now.

[tom_paine]

17. Oh, I get the differing magnitudes argument, but I am Jewish also and doesn't it trivialize the Holo

caust if we let RW Authoritarianism rise because we were afraid to call it out when we had a chance to stop it BEFORE it got to equivalent magnitudes of the previous "premier" RW Authoritarian State, Nazi Germany?

For many years, every year I went to Holocaust Commemorations (my great-uncles were murdered by Stalin, not Hitler, but they are two sides of the same totalitarian coin) and I swore like so many others, "Never again."

NOT "Never again so long as it happens to someone other than Jews." NOT "Never again, as long as 'again' comes in a conveniently recognizable form that replicates the old forms."

Totalitarianism is always reinventing itself and adjusting it's failed tactics anew.

The "magnitude defense" is such bullshit, and I say this as a Jew who lost two family members to State Totalitarianism.

Maybe we give the people who died on Kristallnacht and in the Holocaust more respect for their loss by not being so dogmatic that we have to wait for industrial death camps to rise up before we dare speak of What We are Becoming.

Because, by that time, we've already become it. Get it now?

I can tell you haven't read the link in my post which you responded to. Now might be a good time to do so.

"Princiipa obstis. Finem respice." (Resist the beginnings. Foresee the ends.)

[Nye Bevan]

18. Read slowly, and repeat: "Kristallnacht was state-sponsored"

Unless you think that President Obama and his administration have been endorsing the protests, and encouraging the police not to intervene, then there is no comparison.

[Matariki]

19. Well, in some ways this is Republican sponsored

They've barely distanced themselves from it and Fox News is certainly the 'propaganda arm' of their party.

[tom_paine]

20. Read slowly and repeat: "remarketing and rebranding of an old discredited brand"

You might also want to read Karl Jaspers on the topic of totalitarianism in the link I provided, which you clearly didn't.

Maybe you don't want to know. I don't blame you. It is indeed an unpleasant awakening. Head in sand is much more comfortable for you, I suspect. It is for most people.

And that is why Totalitarians keep reinventing themselves with such success throughout history.

You just keep waiting until it comes marching up the street with swastikas flying. Until then, make no comments on directions and trends because such talk is out of bounds. You'll have a long and silent wait.

Which just plays right into the totalitarians' hands. They want to freeze you with navel-gazing and denial, which they have.

Mission accomplished.

[upi402]

21. it was authoritarian sponsored, the 'state' is just a vehicle

ignore it if you like but "state" is not what many think it is anymore. i hope you do see that we have a charade of a democracy, however, or you are not paying attention to the basics.

[Nye Bevan]

23. A "charade of a democracy"?

Didn't we elect a Democratic House and Senate and then a Democratic President who pledged to enact health care reform, and then followed through? IMO these last couple of years have been democracy working at its finest.

[upi402]

25. corporatism, 2 stolen elections

corporate media propaganda whipping people up to act out, and act against their own interests.

please pay attention

[upi402]

24. Let us pray in this hour that nothing can divide us, and that God will help us against the Devil!

-Hitler, 1930

[anigbrowl]

29. It doesn't match even 5%

are the motivations of the violent people pretty much the same once you get past the superficial differences? Yes, I agree with you there - it's a real problem, and one which must be carefully monitored. Are the incidents similar in terms of scale or systematic approach? Not at all.

[cilla4progress]

11. What can we do about this?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

12. Okay, let's not go all Godwin here.

It's highly disturbing and rather scary, but a little sense of proportion, please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGlONkndc-w

"You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair they made the Jews wear..."

[smoogatz]

13. It's no Kristallnacht.

But these are the tactics of the brownshirts, more or less. It's violence and intimidation as a political tool: we lost the election, but do what we say or we'll break your windows, etc. Unacceptable, and loosely analogous to the situation at the beginning of Hitler's rise to power in the 1920s, in which a bunch of beer-hall brawlers acting as Hitler's "security" detail gradually evolved into a powerful para-miltary force that helped to change the course of history, much for the worse.

[upi402]

22. exactly right n/t

[deutsey]

28. Good point

:thumbsup:

[KittyWampus]

26. I am starting to find this misuse of the historical term "Kristallnacht" offensive

on behalf of all the Jews killed that night or rounded up that night.

There are major differences between what happened long ago and recently.

The magnitude is so different it diminishes the horror of what happened in Germany.