Losing friends right and right over HCR

[carolinayellowdog]

Folks, I need some DUer perspective on what is happening in my life as a result of the political furor right now. I'm a constituent of Perriello, aghast at what is happening to his family, and seeing ugliness erupt even closer to home than Charlottesville. Most alarmingly, a cousin I'd met a couple of times at family reunions found me on Facebook, friended me, saw the only one of my posts there that is remotely political, and wrote a very strange message on my wall. All about Obama being a Socialist Muslim Illuminati and the End Times, and how I'd be welcome at the next reunion as long as I kept my views to myself. I had to de-friend her, send a message saying there are other reunions I attend where no one inquires about kinfolks' religious or political leanings, and I'll stick with those and wish her well with the others. Another friend constantly posts anti-Obama stuff on Facebook, and I just don't want any political content popping up in my face when I log in once or twice a week. So wrote to her saying I'm your friend but have to de-friend you on this site because the political/religious content here is antithetical to my reasons for joining. Her reply attacked my character. Worst of all, a forum where I'd volunteered to become a moderator, and which is supposed to avoid political advocacy, erupted in right vs. left feuding when a winger member posted an anti-Obama screed, a liberal moderator challenged her, I got into the discussion and all three of us ended up leaving the site. My message in all these cases is not "I'm a liberal Democrat and want to argue and here are the opposite points" but rather "stop shoving your partisan political passions in my Independent face because this is not the proper environment in which to spew like that."

Many DUers enjoy confrontation and would gladly argue with these people. All I want to do is avoid conflict and defuse antagonism, but the wingers are on such a warpath at the moment lashing out in all directions that it seems impossible. Have any of you got suggestions, based on experience, on how to get the message across that you just don't want to engage them on politics and religion, and are asking them to back off? And that if they can't respect those wishes the friendship is over?

[DesertFlower]

1. i had to de-friend a neighbor.

we never knew each others politics until facebook. in fact, we were friendly. he and his wife had a lot of parties and we were always invited.

once he found out my politics things got really nasty. he wrote things like "you liberals are ruining this country that i love. why don't you move to russia"?

[mwb970]

2. I don't think you'll ever get through to them.

As you've discovered, right-wing nutjobs are unreachable. They're lost. There is no point whatsoever in talking rationally with them; you have seen the results you will get. They're hot for a civil war, and nothing less will do.

[DeltaLitProf]

3. Why didn't you use your hide feature?

If you don't want to see what your friends post, but you don't want to de-friend them either, just use the hide feature. I'm sure dozens of my friends have done the same with my posts, since I do post political developments that would likely be missed by those not paying attention.

[carolinayellowdog]

5. because I'm a clueless newbie

Don't really care for Facebook much and never got beyond the very basics. When I emailed my friend saying how much I valued her friendship but how annoying I found Facebook politics, she said just what you did-- why didn't you use hide? Well, it never occurred to me that I'd need to hide anything friends were posting and didn't know the option existed.

[Sherman A1]

8. Agreed

It's a great feature and I use it from time to time. I also advised a young lady with whom I work, to use it for some old HS era "friends" that she felt the need to accept their friend request. She was going to close her account completely, but I urged her to try the hide function first. So now she can stay in touch with those she chooses (family from Europe and such) and simply ignore those who are less important.

FB is hardly reality, but it certainly can have an affect just like anything else.

[NotThisTime]

14. If you hide someone don't you still receive their messages if they send one to you?

As for me, I would just unfriend them and not say a word if you are worried about how they might respond....

[unapatriciated]

40. yep, works like a charm on all those invites for games.

Had to hide a few of my son's post and I'm sure he has hidden some of mine (he is a recovering R now an I):)
I was pleasantly surprised that he made a post calling out the states who were using the "HCR bill is against the Constitution line" asking where were they when bush invaded Iraq. I didn't hide that one.

[sfwriter]

4. I had to dump mine...

After months of posting detailed links and analysis to five word responses and name calling and the most hateful nonsense I could have imagined, including one business owner pulling his support from a charity I worked for, I had to drop anyone with a hint of wingerism and a professional connection to me.

I had constant messages asking if this person was really my friend or could that person be serious. In the end, I defriended 21 people on Thanksgiving.

Life is short, and facebook friendship, like the real thing, is a two way street.

[Are_grits_groceries]

6. I have lost 99% of my family, and

more people than I can count. They spew the hate with the worst of them and I won't stand for it.

I was invited by a cousin to a family reunion. I asked her if there was a problem in providing sufficient entertainment. Just as sure as the world I would have gotten steamed and then given a 'Come to Jesus' speech that would have been heard for miles.

I don't bother with them anymore. They just raise my BP. I do miss them as I once knew them when we were in saner times. I don't miss who they have become.

[LiberalLoner]

7. I've lost a couple of family members too who won't stop spewing right-wing hate.

It sucks, but those people just are not rational. I hate what is happening to our country.

[HillWilliam]

11. As Walter said, "That's the way it is"

I've gotten a bellyful of trying to ignore or excuse the bad behavior. I won't stand for it, either. I was raised better than that. There's a certain amount of civility that polite society demands. I offer it and I expect a certain amount in return.

When someone posts a pointed jab in the crudest of terms, then tries to say "oh, it was a joke, lighten up", no; no, absolutely not. I am not a doormat, nor am I there to be the object of crude entertainment.

If "hide" isn't sufficient, then I block. If that isn't sufficient, I de-friend. I warn and consider a polite warning sufficient. To a sufficiently gracious person, a polite word should be enough. Repeated offenses are more than sufficient grounds for de-friending.

As you said, I miss what they were in saner times. What they have become I do perfectly well without.

I pay for the bandwidth on my end and I'm perfectly fine with limiting the amount garbage that wants to occupy it.

[WVRICK13]

9. You Cannot Be Friends With People

who are so fundamentally different. What would you have in common? Instead of diffusing antagonism try giving them a does of their own medicine. Our silence only emboldens these assholes.

[aquart]

10. My two best friends are pro-Palestinian. I'm not.

We've had some really long discussions.

I have relatives who believe the only good Arab is a dead Arab. Had to ask them to stop sending me hate mail. I won't accept anything from anyone that argues that the other side isn't human.

And one of my friends had to be told that anti-Semitic literature wasn't welcome in my house or my mother's.

But I never tried to break off any of those relationships. I've had some old school friends de-friend me and all I can think is that they didn't care for my opinions during the long primaries and election campaigns. They never bothered to give me their reasons.

And I trade soap opera gossip with a woman who admired Sarah Palin. I don't know if she still does. I realized we would never agree politically so we no longer attempt any political discussion.

The only person I ever cut dead and refused to ever acknowledge again was someone who announced to me that there was no difference between the two parties.

Everyone has to decide what his own breaking point is.

[Historic NY]

12. I just completely block them.

[ejpoeta]

13. i don't like confrontation either. my struggle is with members of my own family.

my brother has gone off the deep end. he's gone crazy. i don't know how to even talk to him. he seems brainwashed from listening to limbaugh and beck. it's frightening really. he was just bitching about having to pay $200 for one prescription for his wife since his employer (the same as my husband's) went to a high deductible insurance) but he spouts all these lies about the healthcare bill. i want to tell him he has the insurance he deserves i guess since he things the government shouldn't be involved... but i don't wish that on anyone.

[Vinca]

15. If I were you, I'd be more concerned that I share some DNA with that cousin.

Yike! Socialist Muslim Illuminati??

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. At least it's not "Socialist Muslim Illuminati Space Alien Zombie"

those are the worst.

:hi:

[Vinca]

18. ROFL.

At least the "morans" are good for a laugh in the morning.

[queenjane]

16. You can't have rational discussions with irrational people

I have Dem friends who enjoy trying to "convert" the repug crazies. Not me. I'm a realist. People who are "fans" of Sarah Palin, who get their news from Limbaugh and Fox, are beyond rational, logical discussions. These people are psychotic. I don't know what the final blow was for them: Obama's race, gay rights, abortion, the rightful dying away of what they perceive as a "proper" society, where everyone is god-fearing, patriotic, and knows their place.

For the first time in my life, I'm actually afraid of my fellow citizens, and believe this country, in its current configuration, has no future. As a history geek, it reminds me of the U.S. pre-Civil War. Just as there really was no way to reconcile those for and against the continuation of slavery, I don't think there's a reconciliation between us and those who are enemies of inclusiveness, modernity, science, and compassion.

As I shed more and more friends and relatives --(just yesterday, a colleague whom I thought of as a friend and fellow liberal informed me he'd converted to Catholicism from Episcopalianism because, and I quote: "The Episcopalians are too damned PC and too busy trying to include everyone; they don't stand for a damned thing!" I was stunned, and finally replied that yes, Catholicism does stand for things: institutionalized child rape, the oppression of women, discrimination against homosexuals." He just smirked and walked off.)-- I realize this poisonous hatred is spreading like a pandemic. I now understand how easily entire societies and countries can be swept up in mass violence and irrational rage. If the repugs regain control of our government, I think we will see decades of progress in civil rights swept away, and we'll have far more to worry about that who we "de-friend" on Facebook . . .

[rbixby]

30. You're right....but.....

You can take things to the next level and give them an example of how stupid they're being. I generally work my way around the whole New World Order, Illuminati, Council on Foreign Relations, Freemasonry, and Rothschild conspiracies (I used to be interested in these conspiracy theories, until I found out how flawed they all are), and bring in, in a subtle way, sasquatch, the crystal skulls, Roswell New Mexico, and then tie it all up into a big linked connection showing how Jesus conspired with the Romans to create a new church that would allow these shadow organizations to rule the world.
Because for awhile, I didn't have anything better to do, I wrote up a whole treatise about it, and until you get to the last couple of pages, it seems like a well-researched paper on possibly the biggest conspiracy that nobody is ever talking about. Then it dives right into the tinfoil hat wearing utter crap, and some people who've read it have actually been convinced (generally right wing folks). And then I tell them that its all fiction, just like the conspiracy theories they subscribe to. I generally don't hear back from those types again.

[DeschutesRiver]

37. I've been wrestling with this

I am guilty of trying to debate these issues. I don't start the conversations, or go forth to "convert" anyone, but when it comes up in front of me, both me and dh have put forth our positions, and engaged in conversations. Sometimes, people on the other side either change their mind or positions a bit, or at least show they are capable of some reasoning. In our small community, it can get rather thick at times and it is difficult to just stand by and let them rip without offering any counterpoint.

That was around the time of the elections and for a bit afterward. Right now, as I've said elsewhere, I can't tell the "ones capable of reasoning who've simply been caught up in the mob mentality" from the "complete freaking unstable psychos who will use my difference of opinion to target me later".

I've put this kind of debate on ice for now, and asked dh if he'd refrain from getting into his deep political discussions (same for religion) for the moment while I try to sort out how we can protect ourselves, should the person we are speaking with turn out to be one of the unstable tea baggers. I share your concern/fear re some of our fellow citizens, because I am finding bizarre behavior not only where I expect it to be, but where I am shocked by it. As in your example of the religious convert, sometimes we are finding that people we thought were fairly stable have some freaking strange ideas that are just oozing out of their very pores right now. And some of them, for us, are not satisfied unless they are in our faces about it. You can't even agree to disagree anymore.

I am a history geek too, and am not particularly optimistic about how things will proceed. On these base issues, I believe you are correct - it does sniff pre Civil War, and there can be no reconciliation. I will not live in the kind of world these people want; and apparently some of them are already willing to fight to the death over living in a world where my views are permitted to exist. That would be a survival issue for both of us, and there isn't any way to back down from that. I simply don't know at the moment how many of these people holding these views are behaving this way because of being whipped up into a frenzy of temporary insanity, and how many are permanently unstable with the real intent to do violence to win back what they think they have lost.

I am going to do everything I can to make sure that for my last few decades on the planet, I never again live in a repub/tea bagger mentality world. Been there growing up, never going back. How to achieve that is what I am still reflecting upon.

[HughBeaumont]

19. It's admirable. I would just use the hide feature in your case.

Confrontation isn't for everyone and many think politics isn't worth losing your family over.

Myself, I can't let the promotion of hyperbole, lies and failed economic ideas go uncontested. For instance, if there's one thing I despise more than anything, it's when people go CNBC and spin Reagan/Republican/Milton Friedman economic theory into a factually successful methodology. I'm sorry, but I can't let shit like that stand.

[City Lights]

20. Rather than de-friend them, I suggest you hide their news feed.

It's worked well for me. :hi:

I don't think you can prohibit friends from writing on your wall, but if you see something you wish they hadn't posted, you can delete it.

[conscious evolution]

21. You can stop people from posting on your wall

Account>privacy settings>who an post on your wall

[City Lights]

22. Can you stop individual people?

From what I can see, it's all or nothing. I see a check box that says, "Friends can post on my wall."

[Orsino]

23. You can customize this feature.

Create a group called, say, Freepy Friends, with limited privileges (such as not being able to post to your Wall or unable to see your updates), and move the freepiest friends into that group.

[City Lights]

24. I did not know that!

Thanks for the info!

[barbiegeek]

25. I keep their Hate Viral emails and report them

They think I'm on their side (some of them) and I keep their Lying or Hate email and report them to snoops, or DNC, or call OFA or forward them to the State's attorney general. If their specific to Pres. Obama (since we have a repug AG) I send it to Illinois AG.

[Cirque du So-What]

26. This is one of the reasons why I don't do Facebook

I know myself, so I'm fully aware that my political views would carry over to whatever I post on this ostensibly 'social' site. I've already mentioned the potential for 'time suckage' factor inherent to Facebook, as I've already got DU for that. Difference is, I don't know the overwhelming majority of DUers personally, so there's near-zero chance of political worlds and personal worlds colliding. I already know which direction all my friends & family lean politically, and they know where I'm at on the political spectrum. We've managed to maintain a certain 'detente' over the years, and providing a convenient target on my Facebook would disrupt that equilibrium.

[A Brand New World]

27. Thanks for bringing this up. I'm going through the same dilemma

all of a sudden. This latest upset to the Repub psyche has definitely sent them through the roof. There are friends & relatives of mine that I think have gone insane! I wasn't quite sure how to handle this Facebook thing cause I'm a relative newby there. I don't want to go "insane" on them but don't want them to send my BP sky high either. With living in Ohio, I've learned to discuss politics on a limited basis.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

28. Why reject someone's freindship because of some political quibble.

I have some very consrvative friends. I have some liberal friends too.
Most, in fact, would likely be considered independent or conervative.

I don't really care that most oppose HCR or anything. Makes for interesting conversation as long as your civil.
I think you and your friends really need to take issues and personal beliefs less seriously and enjoy friendship.
If they spend 100% of the time preaching stupid crap... just hang out with them less, but its no reason to burn a bridge.

[RobinA]

38. This is My Approach

I have some winger friends, but they respect me enough to shut up and I shut up around them. I wouldn't expect them to call me names, I mean, we've been friends for decades. If they did I'd react the same way I would to a friend who called me a name for any reason...bye, bye. We seem to be able to get along by letting sleeping dogs lie.

[rbixby]

29. I actually kind of welcome it

If you want to post your political garbage on my facebook, then you can expect to be shouted down. If you keep it on your own page, I'll leave it to my discretion as to whether I want to weigh in or not. Generally speaking, if its on someone else's page, I'll keep things reasonable, avoid personal insults, and the like, but if you engage in douchebagesque behavior on my page, expect to be shouted down solidly (and without using personal insults). I guess that's how its been for me, I don't take it personally.

[carolinayellowdog]

31. I invited her to the nonpolitical nonreligious reunions

I just could not stand the whole defriending thing destroying a family relationship. She probably had no idea what writing on a wall was, or how traumatized I'd be to find such opinions there. So extended the olive branch of saying with family I always and ABSOLUTELY (caps) focus on areas of common ground and avoid any areas of disagreement. Emphasized that in our reunions, 60-75 relatives never once in years bring up anything political or religious. I did not say that I was shocked and outraged that anyone's welcome at her line's reunion would depend on opinions on divisive topics, since we all left ours at home.

[pundaint]

32. Unopposed lies grow. You can speak the truth and move on if you don't want

to engage in an argument, but don't let them believe that their fantasy majority exists.

[Toucano]

36. +1

You've got it right!

[kctim]

33. Stop judging

people based on their politics, especially family. And don't worry one bit about those who refuse to not judge you based on your politics.
Life is too short for one to allow politics to dictate their happiness.

[LibertyLover]

34. I 've had a similar problem

Several people on my Facebook friends group are conservatives. I know it, but we are in a historical re-enactment group and I value their opinions in that aspect of my life. I actually rarely post my own information on FB, using it more to keep up with friends - I may click "Like" or reply to something one has written about her kids but that's about it.

A few days ago, just after HCR passed, I saw a post for a FB group "Remind Rush to go to Costa Rica". I checked it out and thought it was funny, so I joined. A day or so later one of my very rw FB friends posted a vitriolic message on my wall about how Rush was the most truthful man in the media :spray: and that he had not said he would leave the US for Costa Rica, just go there for the medical care at one of the clinics for the rich springing up down there (my first thought was - so does he keep a jet on standby all the time to fly him to Costa Rica in case he starts having myocardial infarction symptoms and needs to see a doctor quickly? and my second was I wondered how his legions of fans feel about that one - adios guys, I can pay through the nose for private health care but you plebeians are stuck with what you can get here?). He ended by staying that he was tired of the liberals twisting everything that Rush had to say. I mentioned it to my husband and he said that at Christmas when we were at their house for dinner, this guy was spouting birther nonsense. I haven't replied yet and I probably won't because I value my association with the re-enactment group and don't want to upset anything. At the same time, this person and his spouse are running to head the local group for the next 2 years. I had planned to vote for them as they are really the only viable candidates, but now I am honestly thinking about not voting at all.

It's disheartening. I feel that I can't say anything and yet I badly want to. Hang in there. Perhaps things will get better as the rw discovers HCR isn't the end of the world.

[LWolf]

35. Here are some things that I've done.

re: facebook? I generally don't post political stuff there, and neither does the small group I "friend." My only real reason for being there is to keep up with 1 son and a few friends who are in different states. When one cluttered my wall with constant junk, I found a way to keep her as a friend but make sure her stuff didn't show up on the wall. I don't remember what I did, but it's possible. Better that than "de-friending."

As for the rest, here are some of the things I've done. Sometimes they work, sometimes not.

"My mother taught me not to discuss politics and religion in polite conversation. Let's talk about other things."

"I don't agree with you, but that's okay. I don't expect the world to agree with me, or me with them. Let's find something else to talk about."

To my students: "I am not going to share my political views with you. Period." Along with an ocean of "no comments" when they try to draw me out.

"I don't like either major party, and am not interested in getting into any partisan discussions or arguments."

"I don't watch news or talk shows on tv, listen to them on the radio, or allow media talking heads to shape the way I think about issues; I get my news from newspapers or online, and I develop my positions on issues independently. I really don't care what somebody on the radio or tv said."

And, simply, ignore the remark, and politely but blatantly change the subject.

Some of the less successful:

"When I want to know what you think, or your political opinions, I'll ask."

And...when my ex BIL sent one too many right-wing emails, I replied with a quote from Dennis Kucinich about the issue his forwarded rant touched on. He never emailed me again. Of course, he never spoke to me again, either. I don't know what would have happened if we'd met face to face (different states,) but I divorced his brother.

[carolinayellowdog]

39. These are great and should be taught

This all worked out with mutual apologies and friendly plans to see each other, and "I don't like either major party, and am not interested in getting into any partisan discussions or arguments" is my party line from now on. Of course that line is only needed with Republicans, as usually Democrats are impressed enough by my 100% D voting record not to care that I am highly critical of the party.

[LWolf]

41. I'm glad it worked for you.

You're right, the "I don't like either party" is usually only necessary with Republicans. The only Democrats that care that I'm highly critical of the party are here on DU.