New Evidence for Multiverse?

[Octafish]

The case is building for a theory that many galaxy clusters are being pulled by clumps of matter outside the known universe.



It's not some crazy claim from a Venusian contactee, although they might've been among the first to talk about it. This word's from National Geographic:

New Proof Unknown "Structures" Tug at Our Universe

Mysterious "dark flow" extends deeper than previously seen.

John Roach
for National Geographic News
Published March 22, 2010

"Dark flow" is no fluke, suggests a new study that strengthens the case for unknown, unseen "structures" lurking on the outskirts of creation.

In 2008 scientists reported the discovery of hundreds of galaxy clusters streaming in the same direction at more than 2.2 million miles (3.6 million kilometers) an hour.

This mysterious motion can't be explained by current models for distribution of mass in the universe. So the researchers made the controversial suggestion that the clusters are being tugged on by the gravity of matter outside the known universe.

Now the same team has found that the dark flow extends even deeper into the universe than previously reported: out to at least 2.5 billion light-years from Earth.

SNIP...

The find adds to the case that chunks of matter got pushed outside the known universe shortly after the big bang—which in turn hints that our universe is part of something larger: a multiverse.

CONTINUED...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100322-dark-flow-matter-outside-universe-multiverse/

Our universe really is much more fascinating than what I can imagine. That's why it pays to read.

[get the red out]

1. Very cool!

But is this where one sock goes when you do laundry? :shrug:

[Octafish]

10. Duckman Knows.

The Mallardian Candidate

[gateley]

2. We have no idea, we just can't comprehend the enormity and infinity and constant

morphing and changing. I can only think about it in little doses. :)

[Octafish]

11. When you have a moment, my Friend...

http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2009/09/15/thinking-about-dark-matter-the-origins-and-size-of-the-universe/

Wow!

[JerseygirlCT]

46. You and me both, gateley.

So cool, but it's all sort of peripheral vision to me - if I try to focus on it directly, I lose it!

[Cetacea]

3. The more we learn the less we know.

Love it.

[Octafish]

19. 'Cosmic Web' of Galaxies Holds Universe Together

It really does get more and more interesting -- in the good sense:

Astronomers have spotted the assembly of galaxies that forms the skeleton of the universe.

A "cosmic spine." Wish more people had them.

[piratefish08]

4. we could take one of these to go check it out......

[Octafish]

20. Here's another one...

Rex Heflin, Santa Ana California, 1965

[DrDan]

5. black holes, matter beyond creation, pulsars, quasars . . .

this stuff is facinating

[Octafish]

21. And, my Friend, we live in a time where we can enjoy learning about them...

Our grandparents were just given a glimpse in 1922, when Edwin Hubble found that other galaxies existed beyond ours.

EDWIN HUBBLE 1889-1953 by Allan Sandage

[AngryAmish]

24. THat is why I always wanted to live in the future

We know so little about things.

Plus I want a spaceship and some hot alien hookers.

[pokerfan]

31. We live in the science fiction of our youth

-Robert Charles Wilson

[DrDan]

27. the past 100 years have been unbelievable in terms of our understanding of the universe

Just saw a terrific movie yesterday - from 2008 (I think) - "Eddington and Einstein". Interesting perspective relative to politics vs science. I would love to hear what either of these guys would say about today's anti-science movements.

[grantcart]

6. 47 billion light years

What could have a gravitational pull over such a distance.

It is rather incomprehensible.

[mindwalker_i]

15. Rush Limbaugh's ego...

Karl Rove's ass.

But we know where those are...

[deutsey]

7. Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say.

Thanks for posting. :hi:

[Donnachaidh]

8. hope none of these guys show up

[lonestarnot]

9. Cool.

[mod mom]

12. Thanks for the link!

:hi: rec'd

[Blackhatjack]

13. The most complex problems usually have very simple answers...

I have always doubted that he universe is infinite, but rather is too large to measure using our present ability to measure.

The fact that our universe may be expanding does not change the fact that our universe has definite boundaries at any given point of measurement.

So if there are boundaries that contain our universe, there must be something on the other side of those boundaries, right?

[loudsue]

33. Exactly, Blackhat! Beyond our universe there is still something else.

And even something else beyond that. What is so amazing to me is that here we are! Sentient beings capable of comprehending such a thing. What a treat!

[hulka38]

42. I think that too.

If the Universe is expanding, then at t+1 second it is larger than it was at t. There is no infinity +1, again unless you're talking about Rove's ass.

[JerseygirlCT]

47. That thought has teased me since childhood... nt

[mindwalker_i]

14. My take on this is a little different

It seems like there is stuff outside of our bubble of matter. The light from some 15 billion light years away is just reaching us, so light from further away isn't here yet. What this points to is a single universe (or batch of space) containing multiple chunks of matter. One of those other chunks is pulling at us, but, at least to me, this is the same space - the same universe. It may be that this other batch of matter is just beyond the lightspeed horizon - since the universe is expanding, at some distance the expansion exceeds the speed of light, so we can't see past that.

What I consider a multiverse is separate spaces that are not connected. Kind of what a static warp bubble would be in the star-trek universe. These separate spaces would have no spacial connection - you couldn't drive from one to the other even if there were a road.

Now, I've always kind of thought that space itself were limited, that at some point it would end and there would be no space beyond that. Kind of hard to imagine. If that were true, the whold universe would be contained inside of non-space - it would be contained in a single, geometrical point. Something contained in nothing.

If this gravitational attraction means that multiple universes - clumps of matter that sprang into being with their own big-bangs - are all within an infinite space, that could have some interesting implications for the far future. Expansion of the universe isn't due to stars and galaxies "flying away" from each other, but rather to space itself expanding. What happens when two of these meet? Each will be expanding into the other, so does that mean that the expansions cancel out in the collision region? There's also reason to believe that the universe has it's own set of physical laws, or at least that the underlying physical laws become what we see today due to certain constants of our universe. What happens when two universes with different values for those "constants" collide and merge? It may be that our matter can't exist in the other universe and vice-versa. That could make things very interesting.

It would make a good SF story.

[Kip Humphrey]

32. reality continues to defy human arrogance, refusing to be fully defined and limited by our senses

[Nimrod1]

16. Very cool

Thanks for the article.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. waaay beyond my capacity

but it's cool -- that much I can tell! :P

[Beringia]

18. cool n/t

[NeedleCast]

22. THanks for Posting This. Fascinating!

[MellowDem]

23. But what's outside the multiverse? And beyond that?

These are the questions I need a good beer and sandwich for.

[Amonester]

37. Answer: An Infinite Amount of Multiverses.

A point of view in the night sky which has no finite end point.

[IDemo]

38. A precocious ten year old looking into the Universarium

[Soylent Brice]

25. absolutely amazing.

it could potentially be dark matter, also.

K&R

[G_j]

26. love it!

thanks

[Better Believe It]

28. K & R Thanks for the article.

[Kip Humphrey]

29. Aw, the Intergalactic Superhighway... invented by Al Gore?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

30. AND they found a bunch of missing matter. No, not the dark matter

or dark energy, but real matter that we should have been able to find. Turns out it was too hot, and we were looking for traces at lower energy levels. Instead of looking for hydrogen creation where electrons move from the second energy step to the lowest level (the standard way we found galaxies a long, long, long, long way away, they finally peered at the step three to step two energy level. Bingo! there it was.

[Octafish]

34. That is astoundingly wonderful, as well. The universe may've grown 9-fold.

The news was that using the Lyman-alpha marker for the hydrogen transition made it possible to see many, many galaxies at the edge of perception. The number was astonishing - something like 90-percent of the total number of galaxies, and thus, stars. The old estimate was 100-200 billion galaxies. The new number would be something like 900 billion to 1.8 trillion newfound galaxies, averaging 100-200 billion stars each.

How big a dent would that make into "missing matter" theory? I thought it needed something along th lines of 90-percent more matter for the universe to behave the way observations indicate.

At least one copy editor wrote "billions of new stars."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. No dent in dark matter at all.

This was real matter, but we just could not see it.
Dark matter is something else, completely different, and along with dark energy, just as elusive.

The problem is, we can see its impact, especially in the most distant regions. Acceleration away from the center should not be happening.

[G_j]

35. thanks

fantastic!

[Warren DeMontague]

36. "There's a hell of a good universe next door... let's go" nt

[Blackhatjack]

39. It is Possible to have an Infinity within a Finite space .... It just depends on how you measure

For example, you could go out on a flat piece of land and line off a perfect square mile. Inside that square mile, you could line off a circle.

Since a line is defined as having two endpoints, and a circle is a line with no endpoints, travel along a circle is infinite. Yet this is an infinity contained within a finite space.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. In other words, the length of the coastline of England depends on the length of the ruler you use.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z8mwJp4iSOo/RxT5JjRtcdI/AAAAAAAADnI/le_YlI6PCHo/s400/Koch+Snowflake.JPG

[Blackhatjack]

48. The concept of 'infinity' is of little value in measuring the universe....

and as you pointed out the only measurements that lend us actual knowledge are those which use definable reference points.

The length of the ruler accounts for the data we interpret as equivalent to the length of the coastline of England.

[Blackhatjack]

40. Likewise, this analogy might help us understand our universe better....

Our universe is like a lined off football field, 140 yards long by 40 yards wide, marked off on an open plain. Inside the boundaries of the football field the rules of football apply, including a method for measuring time. The 'universe' in this analogy would have definite boundaries, but that does not mean nothing exists outside of those boundaries.

And if the boundaries of our football field were expanded to 160 yards long by 50 yards wife, those boundaries would still be finite. And it can keep expanding, but it will always have a finite boundaries depending on the point you attempt to measure it.

So that necessarily means there is 'something' outside the finite boundaries of our universe. And to carry the analogy one step further -- if there were additional 'universes' located next to each side of our universe and our universe's boundaries expanded until it overlapped the boundaries of the additional universes, that still would not change the finiteness of our universe, but it likely would indicate that there are multiple universes out there which exist that we presently cannot see.

I recall from a science class that our professor pointed out that we have animals which can 'see'(or sense) infra red light waves, but that we humans cannot. The fact we cannot see infra red wave lengths with the naked eye does not mean they do not exist. The same can be said of multiverses. Just because we do not have the equipment needed to 'see'(or sense) multiple universes outside our own does not mean they are nonexistent.

The idea that our universe is infinite is akin to the idea that the earth is flat and you just drop off the edge if you sail far enough.

What will really turn your head around is to consider the possibility that time does not exist outside our universe, and that more than one universe occupies the same 'space' simultaneously. Kind of like having a football game and a basketball game going on simultaneously within the identical physical dimensions, and each operates on a different set of rules and methods of keeping time and score. When universes collide this could be what we get.

[RagAss]

44. Semantics.

[JerseygirlCT]

45. I so wish I had the kind of mind that could really comprehend

these things. I mean, I can read it, and understand it on a surface level.

But there are people out there who can hold all that math in one brain at one time!

This is really, really fascinating stuff! Thanks!