What if it's not just HFCS that's the problem, but all the corn we're eating?

[hedgehog]

If you eat meat, you're eating corn. If you eat soy, you're eating the residue of the pesticides and herbicides used to grow last year's corn. Your dog and cat are eating corn. My backyard chickens are eating corn, so when I eat my free range eggs I'm really eating corn. Baked goods? Stews? Spaghetti sauce? Corn starch and HFCS.

Native Americans ate corn for centuries as part of their diet, but the corn ADM and Cargill feed us is a bit different since it's been modified to satisfy the needs of industrial agriculture.

When did subsidized corn take over the American diet?

When did Americans start getting fat?




(Things have been too quiet here lately, anyhow.)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. What if it's the color yellow?

Corn is yellow. HFCS is made from corn. HFCS is in food. Food makes people fat. There are too many fat people.

Something must be done about the color yellow.

[NoSheep]

30. Fat is yellow!

[Johonny]

45. I propose we invent a new color to replace yellow

[TommyO]

58. Whatever you do, don't buy a Sharp Quattron TV!

It has a yellow LCD cells, in addition to the traditional red, green and blue!

Oh my.....

[tabatha]

2. I don't eat corn or soy or potatoes

and limit grains of all types.
I try to avoid processed foods.

[MineralMan]

7. Thanks for the info.

Isn't it wonderful that we all get to choose what we eat?

[hedgehog]

9. I should have mentioned that in some parts of the country , you

get to drink the run-off fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides. When I lived south of Columbus, the tv stations used to run stories in the spring warning infants and the elderly not to drink the tap water because of the high nitrogen levels in the river.










Then they'd break and go to a commercial for Round-Up.

[SolidGold]

17. nitrogen is a primary buiding block of almost all plant life

nitrogen is what feeds plants and is a primary food source for them. try growing crops in nitrogen free soil and see how amazing your yield is.

Herbicides and pesticides aren't filled with nitrogen. The reason nitrogen is dangerous to children is due to the early development cycle already having a high nitrogen level running through the body. Once a child is past this phase consumption of products like spinach (a vegtable super high in nitrogen) is completely safe.

[hedgehog]

27. It's not a good thing when the niotrogen applied to a farm field in Ohio ends

up feeding plant life in the Gulf of Mexico

"About 90 percent of the freshwater (3.3 million gallons/second) and nitrates entering the Gulf come from Mississippi River Basin runoff from agricultural operations. About 56 percent of the nitrates enter the Mississippi River above the Ohio River. The Ohio River Basin adds 34%."


http://wwwapp.epa.ohio.gov/dsw/nps/NPSMP/ET/nitrogenexistingtargets.html


While herbicides and pesticides are not sources of nitrogen, they are associated with current methods of raising corn and do enter the water table.

[SolidGold]

49. come up with a pestacide that doesn't have runoff and you'll be rich

After that you can build cars that run on love and people who don't need food to live.

We also have the choice of going all organic and letting a large portion of our population starve to death. What do you think would work best?

Personally I prefer famine because it will really teach people to appreciate why things are done the way they are. It will bring a bit of reality into a lot of peoples imaginary worlds.

[DJ13]

3. When did Americans start getting fat?

In the 80's.

When did HFCS begin replacing sugar in processed foods?

In the 80's.

[hedgehog]

10. Well, they had to do something with all the extra corn!

[MineralMan]

11. Hmm...fat Americans, eh...1980's? Maybe not.

[DJ13]

12. The average weight of Americans began increasing in the 80's

Of course theres always been obese people, just not in the same numbers as now.

[trotsky]

15. When did cell phones appear?

In the 80s.

When did we get cable TV?

In the 80s.

ZOMG!

[MineralMan]

18. And what about PCs. They showed up in the 1980s.

It's the home computers that make people fat. Oh, noes! We're completely doomed now.

[DJ13]

21. I cant believe some people would be defending HFCS

lol

[trotsky]

53. I'm not defending HFCS. I'm defending LOGIC.

You should try using it sometime.

[DJ13]

55. Your logic is lacking

Look up how many foods now contain HFCS that either used sugar in the past, or didnt have any sweetner in it.

Then read up on the pancreatic damage caused by HFCS and how the pancreas is responsible for diabetes.

Then take your logic and........

[trotsky]

57. I laugh at your logic lesson.

#1) Obese people existed before 1980. So we know that HFCS can't cause ALL obesity.
#2) Many, many other things have changed since 1980. We have no way of isolating to be sure that it's HFCS alone causing obesity today. With 200+ cable channels, the Internet, an increase in service/white collar jobs, a decrease in blue collar/labor-intensive jobs, there are so many factors leading to and exacerbating the sedentary lifestyle - PLUS the overall increase in the amount of refined grains and sweeteners (not just HFCS) in our diet.

So yeah. Logic.

[shanti]

19. that's pretty much it in a nutshell

:thumbsup:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. That's pretty much post hoc ergo propter hoc in a nutshell.

You can use that in logic class as an example of how not to do it.

[MineralMan]

4. I eat corn. There...I said it.

I eat it fresh on the cob. I eat it in cornbread. I eat it in corn flakes. I eat it in kernels. I eat it in the tortillas I use to make tacos and enchiladas I use it as carp bait. I love corn-fed pork and chicken. I feed corn to the squirrels in my yard.

Now, I don't put HFCS in any of my spaghetti sauce or any sugar, for that matter.

And it's all genetically modified. Humans have been genetically modifying corn for centuries. I like corn. I'll continue to eat it. Soy beans? Not so much, although I love edamame when I eat sushi. Yes I do.

Yea! Corn!

Corn is good.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. You forgot it's GM corn, not organic.

[MineralMan]

13. Eat only the original corn, not corn which has been genetically

modified through breeding or any other method. Here it is...the original corn:

[tridim]

6. Popcorn is a healthy, whole grain food.

No comment on GM dent corn.

[MineralMan]

20. My dentist disagrees. He says that he just hates finding corn

skins in his patients' gums. Corn is evil! It is the food of Satan! Run away! Run away!

[Duer 157099]

8. Lots of people are unknowingly allergic to corn

And that's regular natural corn. GMO corn is a whole nother beast.

I agree that it is contributing to a whole host of health issues, along with many other factors.

[SolidGold]

14. The bodies of animals don't store corn, they store nutrients

I'm sorry to break this to you but the digestive process is a complex string of chemical reactions that break food down into nutrients absorbed by the body.

When you eat a cow they aren't made of corn, they are made of the nutrients the body uses to create tissue.

If corn was the culprit we would have seen a lot more fat natives when we arrived.

Think of HFCS as concentrated corn and we all know that to much of a good thing will kill you.

[Codeine]

22. THANK YOU!

Jebus, folks. Digestion breaks food down into its component parts -- once digested corn ceases to be corn and becomes proteins, sugars, fiber, minerals, etc.

[hedgehog]

25. But - if the cow is meant to be eating grass and is fed corn instead,

so you end up eating meat from a diseased animal.... The animal is not carrying an infectious disease, but is getting ready to keel over from a heart attack.

I've been eating grass fed beef for a while. It definitely has a gamier taste than corn fed beef.

Compare wild caught salmon to farm raised salmon for taste, texture and color and you'll see significant differences.

On the other hand, it was long traditional to keep catfish alive in a bucket and feed them corn meal a few days to improve the flavor...

[SolidGold]

26. Cows aren't meant to eat just grass - thats just silly

Cows stomachs are capable of digesting a wide range of plant material, after all that is the point of them having three stomachs. Humans can eat grass with a single stomach and pass it, a cow is capable of eating almost ANY plant matter and breaking it down into nutrients and energy for the body.

Just like goats - goats can eat trees and bark and digest them and break them down into soluble nutrients the body can absorb.

The idea that cows only eat grass cause they are often seen in fields is rather childish and pretty much means you haven't done an inch of research to actually understand livestock.

If that isn't the case - can you please tell me what one single food humans should eat? How about any other animal out there that you're aware of that only eats a single thing. An animal only capable and meant to eat a single thing would go extinct the first time their food source was disrupted. Simply put, this isn't how the world or animals work.

[Luminous Animal]

31. Cows did indeed evolve to subsit primarily on grasses.

A cow may be able to eat a wide range of plant material but they did not evolve to digest corn. When a cow subsists almost entirely on grain, it will suffer from from bloat and acidosis and the only way a corn fed cow can survive until slaughter is if the feed is laced with antibiotics.

[SolidGold]

42. Site the source - I read scientific journals all the time - new to me.

Please site your source for this information. I'd like to see where cows evolved to subsit only on grass.

After all most fields cows have grazed in for the last 1000's of years haven't been just grass - I've raised cattle in rural Missouri and I'll tell you that cows left to feed on their own eat a lot more than just grass. They will eat any vegetation that they can get their head to, including leaves off trees. A cow, as smart as they look, can not tell the difference between grass or clover.

[Luminous Animal]

47. I never said that they subsist only on grass.

I said that they evolved to subsist primarily on GRASSES. Grasses encompass a lot of forage varieties.

But you are partly right, I am sneaking in some post while I am supposed to be working, so I will be clearer. Grasses are necessary for cows as their stomach has evolved to extract protein from them (indigestible for most mammal species). This is an undisputed fact.

What is also undisputed that a cow raised on corn will get sick.

[SolidGold]

50. Whats indisputable is that animals raised like plants will get sick

Cows, like humans, need a somewhat diversified diet. Like I stated in my earlier post there are no animals that live and feed entirely on one single thing. That's a horrible evolutionary strategy. Yes they are foraging animals but that doesn't mean that a cow can only eat grass or evolved on eating only grass. They are foraging animals just like a deer, a goat, a pig, or any other large herbivore.

If you lock a human in a closet for 3 years and feed him just corn he will get sick as well. The thing with this is, we don't eat humans - but we eat tons of cows. You can't really have your cake and eat it too in this situation. If the country primarily feeds on beef we don't have time to dick around worrying about if a cow gets sick unless its sickness will impact the people or animals that cow will turn into food for. This is a business of turning plants into meat and that's the end of it. If you don't like that, become a vegan and grow your own food.

It's a lot easier to bitch than to remove yourself from the equation.

[Luminous Animal]

54. A deer, a goat, a pig, etc., does not have a digestive system

that evolved to turn grasses into protein. Grasses are what cows need to survive. A cow on a corn only diet can get sick with bloat within days not years. In fact, grain feedlots only feed a cow corn for up to 150 days. That seems to be the limit before their eternal organs collapse.

FYI, plants also need a diversified diet of nutrients. They, too, will get sick in a mono-culture.

And I can bitch all I want, this board is, after all, designed for bitching.

[hedgehog]

32. You'd be surprised - here's an article advocating feeding

corn to cows, but buried in the text is this paragraph:

RumensinTM is a feed additive routinely used for feedlot cattle to improve feed efficiency and reduce acidosis (off feed) and bloat problems. During the first two years when com-based diets were fed, Rumensin was not used and 3-4 cows each year went off feed for a couple of days. When this occurred, the cow was separated from the herd and fed hay for two days and then gradually adjusted back to the corn diet before returning her to the herd. During the past two years, RumensinTM was used in the supplement, and no off-feed problems have occurred. just like for feedlot cattle, RumensinTM will also improve feed utilization for cows.
http://www.animalrangeextension.montana.edu/Articles/Beef/Wklynwsltr/10-30-01.htm

What's really interesting is that while the cows can be counted on to regulate their appetites on forage, corn leaves them feeling hungry and they tend to over-eat!

http://agbiopubs.sdstate.edu/articles/ExEx2048.pdf

More info here:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/kingcorn/cows.html

http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

[hedgehog]

23. The corn they ate has been modified considerably in recent years.

[SolidGold]

28. With good reason - evolution is sloppy!

Anyone with any type of sense knows that genetics are great. Genetics are the future. Genetics prevent famine, starvation, and a number of plant bound illness and infection.

People who are afraid of genetics simply don't understand the science. Go back to your bible or your hippy commune and keep your head under the rocks. Genetically modified food is the future and will be one of the few unsung heroes of humanity.

If you don't like genetics stop taking medicine, don't get vaccinated, and don't eat anything. If it wasn't for geneticists breading hybrid plants more of the world would be starving right now. I would say most but most of the world is already starving! That's what people never give a fuck about when they bring up modified food.

It's similar to health insurance - turning a blind eye because you've got an opinion strongly rooted in disinformation and fantasy.

[hedgehog]

33. I 've got nothing against genetics. What i object to is industrial

agriculture wiping out genetic diversity and selecting for appearance and convenience instead of nutrition and adaptability.

[Codeine]

36. You're officially my favorite New Poster!

:applause: :yourock: :hi:

[alfredo]

48. It is not the field of genetics it is the profit motive that

might push a poorly researched hybrid onto the market.

Also we have proprietary genes transfered to other fields by the wind then the seed companies suing the farmer because some of their proprietary genes turned up on that neighbor's farm.

Seed saving is another practice that has gone on since the dawn of agriculture, and is now under attack by seed companies.

[SolidGold]

51. thanks for telling me what i've known for 10+ years

you can't save the seed because you don't own the seed, you lease it. just like when you lease a car - at the end of the lease you give the car back. don't like leases then don't enter the agreement. you don't see people leasing cars bitching that they don't get to keep the car at the end of the lease do you? No because that would be stupid.

the reason this seed isn't kept and allowed to propagate over and over is that the seed itself is refined during the next generation of seed based on the characteristics of the yield farmers experienced the year(s) before. this isn't fly by night research and genetic seed has been around for almost 40 years.

the seed gene firms like monsanto also hold patents on the genetics that go into creating these crops - just like microsoft own the source code to windows.

if there wasn't a profit model for this we would all pretty much be fucked. Although its so much easier to side with the farmers because they make themselves easy targets. Nevermind the fact that no one is stopping the farmer from opening his own genetics laboratory and doing the research and trials it takes to create and distribute genetic seed himself. I'm betting most farmers don't know the first thing about creating genetic seed and wouldn't spend the time getting the education because 'it's two expensive and you have to pay for it!'.

[alfredo]

56. I had in mind the 3rd world farmers who may not live in

a state that allows free choice of materials and and access to reliable information.

I've seen companies put strings to humanitarian aid. If you want the money for schools, hospitals, or some other need, you will have to sign a long term contract to use our products nationwide.

The farmers in the Ethiopian/Eritrean highlands have developed a strain of millet that is suited to their climate. Humans have been altering plant and animal genes since the dawn of agriculture.

[Luminous Animal]

34. Though, corn fed beef contains more fat & saturated fat

and less omega-3 fatty acids than grass fed beef. Corn fed beef also contains less vitamin E and linoleic acid.

[SolidGold]

52. Red meat also rots in your colon regardless of what it ate. n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

16. IMO, fast food, soft drinks and lack of exercise are probably the largest contributing

factors to Americans being overweight. Since fast foods and soft drinks most likely contain HFCS, the problem is compounded.

[thereismore]

24. The most rational post here. nt

[barbiegeek]

35. Read 1491 book, it talks about maize--The truth from a nutritionist

Corn is so easy to grow and makes large kernels & more flour, when the European's brought it back to Europe and had a huge population explosion, because the people didn't have to starve & could feed their cattle too.

Corn has been the major grain in the Country since we landed here. It's NOT the corn, it is the FAT used in low priced cheap food.

When your food is 40-60% fat & processed--pizza rolls, frozen meals etc you'll gain weight.

Fat is added to cheap food, processed food, because FAT adds good flavor & taste to a CRAPPY product (so does MSG & salt).

When cheap processed FATTY foods were introduced after the 1950's, we got FAT.

There is TONS of research to support this. I have a degree in Nutrition and we study that phenomenon well. Dietitians have to TEACH people about reading labels and understanding that they are EATING a diet usually of 50% fat at minimum. I've worked with people whose diets are up to 70% fat and 2,000 calories of Alcohol. Restaurants have high fat food, because it sells.

The food industry has become like every other manufacturer--what sells, how do we make it cheaply, does it taste good, can it be marketed? They are not making it to be nutritious for you they are making a product to sell for profit.

Fresh fruit & vegetables (even frozen-next best to fresh) is expensive.

When our palates are covered in fat & sugar we lose our taste buds to GOOD healthy foods, because our threshold to our taste buds has been pushed to the limit.

[dustbunnie]

37. Wow, in a sea of ignorance, you are a shining beacon of light and a smart lady!

Very well expressed barbiegeek, and thank you.

Edited to add: I work in the health club industry and see people every day who have gained weight or become morbidly obese. Most have absolutely no idea how much food they are ingesting every day, and many polish off a bottle of wine or 5 beers at least a few nights a week. Most think they eat little or moderately when in fact they are consuming way more than they need. They don't understand that a huge plate of chicken wings with blue cheese dip plus a burger is pretty much it for the day's caloric needs, and a dinner of the same size is not required. They don't read labels, don't understand about fat/sugar content... it's like teaching children in many cases.

[Luminous Animal]

38. There would not be cheap processed food if it weren't for cheap corn.

Cheap subsidized corn allowed for cheap feeding of livestock which increased production which needed an outlet which the marketers advanced to elevate meat as a 3 meal a day staple.

[dustbunnie]

40. Nobody's taking about meat as a 3 meal a day staple. It's not the point.

You don't have to eat meat several times a day to be fat. There are plenty of cheap, processed foodstuffs that'll do the trick without the meat.

And my germanic forbears have been eating meat-heavy meals for centuries without becoming morbidly obese.

[NeedleCast]

39. Our Fat Nation

With all the horrible, terrible things we eat it's amazing that the average life expectancy continues to rise...

[pitohui]

41. well our life expectancy is not so high as it would be if we lived in some dozens of other nations

even the citizens of costa rica out-live us

i wouldn't put life expectancy up there as a measure of much, our life expectancy and infant mortality rates are a disgrace for a nation of our wealth and resources

be that as it may, i just read that 1 in 10 chinese people (not ethnic chinese but people living in CHINA the nation) have diabetes, perhaps it's rice that is the cause of all the world's ills

[Hannah Bell]

43. or -- what if it's that americans are eating more calories/person than they used to? just a wild

hypothesis -- backed by fact.

"Americans at the beginning of the 21st century are consuming more food and several hundred more calories per person per day than did their counterparts in the late 1950s (when per capita calorie consumption was at the lowest level in the last century), or even in the 1970s. The aggregate food supply in 2000 provided 3,800 calories per person per day, 500 calories above the 1970 level and 800 calories above the record low in 1957 and 1958."

http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter2.htm

200 calories/day = 20 lbs/year on average.

i don't know why people have to invent goofy hypotheses when there's a straightforward answer.

if you were living in the 50s, you know how different things are now in terms of activity levels, snacking, & meals.

playing into the trend is the increased percentage of older americans: age = higher weight, on average, from middle age to early old age. even in tribal societies eating more or less "natural" diets.

i should also add that US standards for "overweight" & "obese" have been lowered since the 50s; thus what was "normal" in the 50s could be "overweight" today, & what was "overweight" could be "obese".

i've never seen an analysis comparing apples with apples, but i know the standards have changed.

as have the standards defining e.g. diabetes & blood pressure.

so to some extent, the "epidemic" is the product of changed definitions, not real material changes in the population.

but i've never seen anyone try to sort this part out in the literature.

which is yet another indication of how corporate interests shape health policy -- because if we're going to hyperventilate about the increasing epidemic of obesity, diabetes & heart disease since the good ole days, we'd best start by comparing apples to apples.

capitalism induces loss of historical memory, "capitalzheimers".

[dustbunnie]

44. Do you really think so?

:D

A recent observation after a glutenous night at a steakhouse. Mac 'n cheese, an old-fashioned comfort food favorite, used to be served on its own and was called "comfort food" because it was so filling and highly caloric. Fast forward from 1950 to 2010 and mac 'n cheese is no longer something you eat on its own. Now, in addition to your 24 ounce steak and baked potato slathered in sour cream and butter, you NEED the mac 'n cheese as a side cause otherwise the meal is just not enough. That's where we're at today, and no, with ridiculous portion sizes such as they are and physical activity pretty much non-existent, it's no wonder people are becoming larger than life.

[Hannah Bell]

46. no, can't be that. it must be killer corn syrup. or trans fats. or something. it can't be

that, like other animals, we eat more when there's more available & do less activity when our food supply is assured -- & get heavier accordingly.