What's the repub rationale for us being the only country w/o HC?

[Patiod]

I was listening to a local radio program which featured Matthew Yglesias and some right-wing blowhard from the Washington Examiner.

As usual, Mr. Righty dominated the conversation and spouted all the usual nonsense we've heard over and over - "no one wants this, it wasn't done fairly, the left was wildly dishonest about everything and they are going to lose lose lose the midterms".

But at the end of the conversation, he said something about how liberal wonder why we're the only country without health care, and it's because.....blah blah...something about how our country is different. Huh? I really wanted to understand this, and he just blathered.

I really, really want to know how the right rationalizes that we're the only ones without health care, putting us in the same category as Libertarian paradises like Somalia.

Has anyone heard a right-winger address this? Other than "socialism! socialism!" How do they justify this?

(incidentally, I thought Yglesias took the high road, and was wildly ineffectual against Mr. Righty, who got out ALL the memes with very little challenge. Yglesias didn't even challenge the easy ones like "no one wants this")

[Warpy]

1. They treasure their freedom to die bankrupt and neglected

Otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense, at all.

But then they never did.

[DrDan]

2. against change - 'they' do not want to vary from the past

"it was good enough last year - it is good enough next year - don't mess with it"

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. Rationale comes from the english word "Rational". The new conservative dictionary defines rational..

...as <no entry found>

There is no "rationale". "They're fer it so I'm agin it."

[librechik]

4. oh, gawd, you don't want to be like socialistcommunist YURP, do you?

How dare you even suggest that, you traitor

[Patiod]

8. I asked one of my saner conservative friends about this

she's actually the kind of conservative that I understand, even if I don't respect her views. She's a rich "self-made" business owner (after excellent public school and public college educations), and doesn't want to pay taxes.

Her answer? "when we were cycling through France, one of the people on our tour broke a bone, and we brought them to the hospital in this small, rural village, and it was dirty and awful. You wouldn't understand unless you've seen how horrible it is first-hand like I have."

So there you have it -> one dirty, backwards, country hospital in ONE country damns all possibility of single-payer healthcare everywhere. Pass HCR, and University of Pennsylvania hospital will turn into a third-world infirmary eventually.

So I'm still listening for a rational reason why the US shouldn't have health care at least as good as....say, Costa Rica.....

[CTyankee]

15. Please inform this person that the WHO, who studies health issues and outcomes, has

declared France as having the best health care system in the world. Then watch her try to wriggle her way out of it.

Also, ask her if the socialized medicine of European countries is so terrible and ours is so good, why haven't those countries voted democratically to change it? They are all constitutional democracies and therefore have capability to do so and they do not. But ask her anyway...I'd be interested in knowing her answer...

[Patiod]

29. She wouldn't care. She saw a single crappy hospital, and that's it

Not in Paris, not in Lyon, no, in some backwater village, but it represents to her the entirety of French healthcare. Like using the Appalachian clinic on SNL as an example of US healthcare....

[verges]

31. And why their life expectancies are higher...

and infant mortalities lower?

[HughBeaumont]

30. Right, because there are no shitty-quality hospitals in America.

There are no waiting times, NO one choosing doctors for you, you can just go to any doctor you want free of charge, no one EVER gets denied care for being poor or having a pre-existing condition or being too old . . . it's just one big slap-happy "free marketz" utopia in DuhMerica!!

[Walk away]

5. I think it's better to talk about all the great and easy to understand front loaded goodies...

in the bill. Just happily shout them out when the other side goes on a rant. Rant back in an enthusiastic way. People will much rather listen to the nice guy with the good news than the scary negative freak.

I wish Dems would get it and keep shouting the good news from the rooftops. Don't bother to argue with morons in public.

[Patiod]

6. I wanted to hear that, but didn't

as usual (as with the abc roundtable which is dominated by George Will) the right wing takes over and is able to put there nonsense out there louder and clearer than we can.

Wanted to hear a lot of positivity, but it didn't happen.

Very frustrating.

[Walk away]

10. That's because Dems think they have to answer the questions put to them.

Pukes don't make that mistake.

[Oregone]

7. What is anyone's rationale?

Most of the models that would accomplish real universal health care in the US were outright rejected by the majority of both parties.

[leeroysphitz]

9. Fucking Reagan n/t

[bain_sidhe]

11. because it's "uniquely American"

Or in their lingo, "uniquely 'Murkin."

[Patiod]

13. I think that's what he said, but I didn't understand it

High imprisonment rates are also uniquely 'Murikin.

Uniquely American is an description, but not a rationale, not an argument.

God, I'd love to ask one of them a question, and just make them ANSWER it.

[walldude]

26. Uniquely American is

code for "FUCK YOU I GOT MINE".

[Oregone]

19. You do realized Obama used that term regarding health care?

And subsequently, for-profit private corporations were left in charge of the insurance market, under conditions that will not result in universal health care.

[verges]

32. That's similar to the way slavery was referred to.

I think that was referred to as a "Peculiar Institution."

[anarch]

12. I think it's something about

how if people don't have the ever-present possibility of dying needlessly from neglected health issues because of lack of money, then they won't be driven to succeed, and that's what makes America great. Or something.

[LeftinOH]

14. Because 'our way is better' (name anything- ours is always better)..according to RWers.

[Toucano]

16. The Myth of Rugged Individualism

As though we were still 19th century gold prospectors.

And "American Exceptionalism".

[Patiod]

28. On "Fresh Air" yesterday, a Southern Poverty Law Ctr guy said that

I am eager to listen again on the podcast when I can really focus, because he explained how much of rightwing thinking comes from the belief that this country is a gift from God, and the Americans are The Select.

[Toucano]

37. Thanks for the "heads up".

I will check it out, too!

[CTyankee]

17. It's because we are a free people who do not want to be under the heavy yoke of

oppressive socialism. Those people have TERRIBLE lives. It's awful just THINKING about it...in fact, I'm feeling faint just typing this...gotta go lie down...:eyes:

[riderinthestorm]

18. Because we prize capitalism.

And thus our health care system has to be capitalist.

I know, makes no sense but there it is. Capitalism.

[Oregone]

21. The problem with the notion that Americans prize capitalism is that most do not know its meaning

Most also do not know the meaning of socialism. They are, without original thought, corralled into thinking one is good and the other is bad, but "prize" is hardly how I would describe their thinking. Americans also prize Social Security and Medicare, truly, understanding little about the economic philosophy behind them.

If you sat people down and explained the difference, its not something that people would draw blood and fight to the death over, in order to preserve capitalism. Unfortunately, none of the parties really feels like sitting down and educating people on the differences between various economic and social theories, or even less, praising the benefits of alternatives.

[riderinthestorm]

24. Oh I completely understand. I almost put the word prize in quotation marks

It's just a slogan as far as I can tell.

Last night, I watched Micheal Moore's movie "Capitalism: A Love Story" and it's on my mind today... quite thought provoking.

[anarch]

20. well, now that I think about it, just look at Britain

and how their quality of life was totally destroyed and everyone driven into hopeless drudgery after the National Health Service was created. Can you really blame these righteously angry American patriots for not wanting to end up like those poor, unfortunate British victims of Socialism?

[Dulcinea]

22. Corporate America doesn't want it.

How many people would quit jobs they hate and start their own businesses or freelance if they didn't have to worry about health care? Corporate America would lose part of its competitive advantage in getting the best workers.

[librechik]

23. It's uniquely American, doncha know. You know, like working 3 jobs

to pay for a cruddy apartment and NO healthcare. Proud patriots would stop complaining about the way the American Dream is working out for them. Or Pukkkes will call them traitors.

[ljm2002]

25. We're Unique!

Any system we have must be Uniquely American!

We're Self-Reliant! Any system we have must be based on Personal Responsibility.

We're Capitalist! Any system we have must be based on private for-profit companies!

We're Number One! Any system we have is by definition the best in the world!

So There!

[Orsino]

27. American Exceptionalism. n/t

[Dappleganger]

33. Thank you.

[subterranean]

34. Most of them rationalize it by denying that there's a problem.

They simply say that no American is denied access to health care ("the ER can't turn you away!"), and we have the best health care system in the history of civilization. That's supposed to end the discussion.

[blindpig]

35. More to the point,

what is the Democratic rationale?

Cuz this ain't it, not even close, and there ain't gonna be no mulligan.

[kctim]

36. The rationale is

that our country was founded on individual rights and freedoms, and limitations were placed on govt in order to protect those. That and our vast land mass created the individualism that has dominated the majority of our nations history. It is part of our American culture.

That also helps explain why rural areas trend Republican and urban areas trend liberal. Rural areas have always had less govt impact on their personal lives and urban areas have always had a direct govt impact on their personal lives.

Unlike our European neighbors who were born into it and just accept it, large govt and more govt control over the people is still pretty new to us and it will take time for people to embrace it.