A Marine writes about civil war in the USA.

[j420norcal]

(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)

Written earlier on Newsvine, A Marine writes an opinion piece regarding those that want armed revolution in this country.

Link

By Sgt C USMC -

An article I wish I would never have to write - To those calling for a civil war, this Marine wants you to stop, and think...

It's been said that the military is always preparing for war. That is true. We prepare for combat every day. We ran 5 miles today to the rifle range and shot nearly 200 rounds a piece at targets and then ran back. However, we also pray for peace. I would love one day to be completely unnecessary. But alas, I am a realist, and I know that day will never come.

The headlines of the last week have reminded me more of glimpsing at the S2 Daily Briefing Sheets while in theater or the Al-Jazeera than the NY Times or the Washington Post. Think about that for a moment, let it sink in.

Before I get into the main premise of this article - I need to make two statements here.

First and foremost , when it comes to the back and forth of who did what to whom and why - I don't give a @!$%#. It doesn't change the action. In life we're judged by our actions, nothing more, nothing less. One of the greatest things of the military is when it comes to an enemy, the politics behind the situation - don't matter in accomplishing that mission. For the military , life is simple in that regard.

(snip)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. This is excellently written.

I hope with everything I have that we won't descend into civil war...

But if we do, then I'm glad our military men and women will be on the side of the Constitution.

Because that's where I am.


K&R

:patriot:

[tiny elvis]

108. pretentious modern folksy style

written as scripted monologue
the first time i saw it was twenty years ago in an 'x for dummies' book
the bs of such writing is prevalent with propagandists and almost unbearable for me
the 'we will crush you' message is very clear, though
this is not an authentic personal opinion, it is unofficial official
still, i am concerned by the military's concern

[vduhr]

176. Regardless....

the words are true. The consequences of a small group of ordinary people coming up against the U.S. Military would be devastating.

[CubicleGuy]

216. When they train them such that...

... they're willing to turn their guns on the citizens of their own nation, you know that the government has them trained just the way they want them.

I guess it's too bad that the old Soviet Union didn't have what it takes to train their own this way. Maybe if they had drilled that kind of solidarity with the government into them, the wall would never have fallen.

Yes, by all means, turn your weapons on your fellow citizens. Your mothers will be so proud.

[seabeyond]

220. and when the cops are in a stand off with a murderous person, guns trained on them....

what is the difference.

do we put the weapon down and ask them to pretty please, dont murder that innocent?

[sabrina 1]

254. Do you not know that the cops are civil servants

whose job is entirely different from the military? The Founding Fathers understood the danger of a military that might be used by a corrupt government against its own people. Which is why it is unconstitutional to use the use the military against American citizens on American soil.

I haven't read the full article yet, but if he is saying that the military is going to be used to resolve civil unrest, that ought to scare people far more than the tea-baggers.

[Uncle Joe]

297. Sometimes the police can become outgunned.

The Whiskey Rebellion, less commonly known as the Whiskey Insurrection, was a resistance movement in the western part of the United States in the 1790s, during the presidency of George Washington. The conflict was rooted in western dissatisfaction with various policies of the eastern-based national government. The name of the uprising comes from the Whiskey Act of 1791, an excise tax on whiskey that was a central grievance of the westerners. The tax was a part of treasury secretary Alexander Hamilton's program to centralize and fund the national debt.The wiskey rebellion occured because their was a very high tax on whiskey. The farmers began to rebel by burning down the homes of tax collecters. George Washington sent out 13,000 milltia soldiers which finally caused the rebellion to end.

The whiskey tax proved to be unpopular among small farmers in the western United States, where government officials were prevented through violence and intimidation from collecting the tax. Resistance came to a climax in July 1794, when a U.S. marshal arrived in western Pennsylvania to serve writs to distillers who had not paid the excise. The alarm was raised, and more than 500 armed Pennsylvanians attacked the fortified home of tax inspector General John Neville. The Washington administration responded by sending peace commissioners to western Pennsylvania to negotiate with the rebels, while at the same time raising a force of militia to suppress the violence. The insurrection collapsed before the arrival of the army; about 20 people were arrested, but all were later acquitted or pardoned.

The Whiskey Rebellion demonstrated that the new national government had the willingness and ability to suppress violent resistance to its laws. The whiskey excise remained difficult to collect, however. The events contributed to the formation of political parties in the United States, a process already underway. The whiskey tax was repealed after Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party (later the Democratic party), which opposed Hamilton's Federalist Party, came to power in 1800.

Consequences
This marked the first time under the new United States Constitution that the federal government used military force to exert authority over the nation's citizens. It was also the only time that a sitting President personally commanded the military in the field.<12>

The suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion also had the unintended consequences of encouraging small whiskey producers in Kentucky and Tennessee, which remained outside the sphere of Federal control for many more years. In these frontier areas, they also found good corn-growing country as well as limestone-filtered water and began making whiskey from corn, which developed into Bourbon.<13> The rebellion and its suppression helped turn people away from the Federalist Party and toward the Democratic-Republican Party. This is shown in the 1794 Philadelphia congressional election, in which upstart Democratic Republican John Swanwick won a stunning victory over incumbent Federalist Thomas Fitzsimons, carrying 7 of 12 districts and 57% of the vote. The farmers were severely angered.

The hated whiskey tax was repealed in 1803, having been largely unenforceable outside of Western Pennsylvania, and even there never having been collected with much success.<14>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_Rebellion

I believe the Posse Comitatus of which you're referring to came about after Reconstruction, prohibiting the military from being used as a police force unless specifically authorized by the Constitution or Congress, but the military can be used in the case of an extreme national emergency; ie civil war or mass rebellion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

[sabrina 1]

306. Interesting history,. thanks for posting.

It seems it wasn't all that successful though. And, I think a lot had to be worked out once the war was over. The country was and still is, a work in progress and at that early stage in its history, the ramifications of using the military for domestic unrest was probably not a big deal since they were so accustomed to the presence of the military at that time. Also, it probably took time to build up civilian law enforcement agencies.

But thanks, history is always fascinating.

[Uncle Joe]

307. It wasn't all that successful in large part because much of the nation was still frontier and out

of government's direct oversight.

But even in those days it wasn't popular with the people having political ramifications which damaged the Federalist Party and helped the Democratic-Republican Party of Thomas Jefferson.

The ironic thing being this popular law; restricting the military from engaging in domestic policing came about as a measure to placate the former Confederacy.

Peace to you.

[Name removed]

299. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

291. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mahina]

197. Ted Nugent on Fox, "Shoot the pigs"

http://www.thefoxnation.com/entertainment/2010/03/26/ted-nugent-shoot-pigs

I'm concerned too, and I'm not kidding.

[Mojeoux]

251. Some Ted Nugent dish here

Over 40 years ago in Detroit during the psychedelic days of the late 60's, there was a time when Nugent was still hungry for stardom and he was as big a "star fucker" in his way, as any of the groupies.

However, he was NOT ALLOWED at the cool parties unless he agreed to bring a CASE of "Boone's'Farm Apple Wine" and promised that he wouldn't hassle the people who were tripping with his DRUNKEN (bad breath) anti-drug rants.

Now he's rich and the one true rock and roll darling of the right wing.

He still doesn't get to hang out at the cool parties.

[old mark]

2. I sincerely hope the people who really need to read this read it -

and believe it.
Rec. Thanks very much for posting it.

mark

[GentryDixon]

22. The people who really

need to read and understand this will not. They get their news from AM talk (hate) radio and Faux News.

[old mark]

24. Well, you have to be able to read, first.......nt

[tango-tee]

61. I'm afraid you're correct in your assessment

and I'm deeply worried that a nutcase will go over the cliff some time soon, setting off a chain reaction.

[Fire1]

81. The people who need to read this can't read. n/t

[Joe Bacon]

132. Wish my nephew would read it

He keeps telling me that he can't wait for a civil war that would take "Ho'Bama" out.

This is the same nephew who rants about Obamacare, yet has two disabled sons, one with Aspergers' Syndrome and another with a brain defect. Both need constant medical care, yet he parrots the FOXHOLES who repeat the endless bullshit lies about the new law. His closed mind just leads me to tears...

[Divine Discontent]

240. I agree, and sent it to my GOP-leaning/GOP friends & told them it's not funny what's going on & very

dangerous. I'm sure the family, coworkers and friends of the guys that have done crap over the past few years against liberals&govt were shocked the person they knew did it. So, we need to confront people about their anger before it gets out of control.

The marine sgt sounds ignorant in parts (you aren't professionals, we'll crush you - does he not know about great victories against perilous odds in history?), and very threatening - but --- if it gets the point across to the teaklanners - I'm for it!

[movonne]

3. This article should be out on the news channels...Oh I forgot they

are part of the problem...

[movonne]

7. Maybe we could get rachael to read the letter...

[kestrel91316]

4. The only part the hatriots need to read:

".....the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians......"

[catzies]

172. Agreed. They don't realize THEY will become the next "enemy combatants"

You know, the ones that don't have rights in Amurica.

[Fumesucker]

5. The people who are talking about starting a civil war expect the military to join them..

[Tempest]

9. Hopefully this will make them reconsider

But it won't.

[Posteritatis]

18. There's a few dumb enough to think they can take the military if it doesn't, too. (nt)

[Fumesucker]

27. His strength was as the strength of ten because his heart was pure..

:rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl:

[badgerpup]

95. You forgot the other half of that saying...

..."And his head was empty".


At least, in MY crowd that's how it goes...

We've got a lot of D & D players, and the strength-of-ten paladins are just about always dumber than rocks...


My personal version is "My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure and my head is delusional." Gets a lot of laughs...

[Unca Jim]

142. Yeah...

Dump Stats are a hell of a thing...

[MadHound]

38. And some just might

Check out this month's Mother Jones article concerning the Oath Keeper's movement.
<http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers>

If a civil war starts in this country, it is going to ugly, deadly and likely spell the end of this country as we know it.

[onlyadream]

77. I read a bit of that article on Pray

and thought - isn't he an enemy combat? Shouldn't (according to Bush) his ass be thrown in jail (minus habeas corpus)? LOL.
All this hate shit for health care, but they didn't give a damn over the Patriot act. All b/c the gov't wasn't going to raise taxes (greedy bastards).

[merh]

89. The guys in this article are pretty stupid.

They don't want to give their real names or full names, as if it keeps them anonymous. They claim to know how things work, yet they are ignorant to the very obvious. The authorities know exactly who they are, know what home is likely their safety bunker and use them to track the movements of the group.

I'm glad they are proud of themselves. I wonder if it enters their violence loving pea brains that McVeigh was proud too.

[northernlights]

231. that struck me too

they use facebook because they think it's anonymous?!?! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Not only stupid, but one after another is a physical wreck...none of them seem to be in very good shape.

They'd be shut down in a heart beat.

[merh]

250. Gee, how many guys with the middle name "Pray" and the

finger tats "THOR" are stationed at Fort Drum?

what a dumb shit.

[Name removed]

298. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NoQuarter]

105. Exactly.

The armed-revolt "patriots" believe they are defending the Constitution because they've been told to believe that. It's not like they all reasoned through the situation and came to this conclusion.

Someone somewhere wants to see dead people.

[johnnie]

6. Interesting response by the writer

In the comments he is asked about DADT.




" My opinion on gays in the military ? People are defined not by who they are , but by what they do, as I mentioned. If you are capable of performing your assigned task, then your sexual persuasion is irrelevant.

A rifle does not perform a sexuality check before completing it's cycle of operations once the trigger is depressed.

According to the Marine Corps Rifleman's creed -

"...without my rifle, I am nothing."

If the rifle doesn't care, and that creed is true - then sexual persuasion should matter to no one else either.

The idea of touting 'honor, courage, and commitment' as core values, yet expecting people to live a lie is an irony that's not lost amongst our military members.

In fact many will agree with me that this an outdated and outright stupid order.

But it is an order. It's not up to us to determine which orders we follow and which we ignore. I could ruin this keyboard typing all of the stupid orders we have to deal with.

Trust me, there will be thousands of servicemembers who will rejoice when this order is rescinded. Until that time, we will follow it, and all other lawful orders - and accept the punishments that come from disobeying them."

[tom_paine]

8. But the Teabaggers are certain the Oath Keepers will control the military and help them round up

Liberals and Other Enemies of the State.

Hopefully, there are many more people in the service like the good man and true patriot that wrote this article than Teabaggers and Brownshirts.

But after years of Bushification/Foxification, we cannot be certain of this.

[Stand and Fight]

70. Trust me, there are many, many honorable people in the military.

Far more than there are crazy right-wing wannabe revolutionaries. I say this as a fairly recent veteran.

[midnight]

118. Thank you...

[Name removed]

294. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lyric]

10. Scary stuff that the Freepers need to read.

Not that they'll believe it. They pitifully sure that the soldiers will back them. They'll be weeping in their Cheetos when they find out just how wrong they are.

[file83]

198. And when the next Neo-Con takes office of President...

...and declares martial law, and you try to protest, and the Marines are stomping on your head with their boots...

...who exactly will you be cheering for then?

You support violence against Americans now, you support violence against yourself tomorrow.

[seabeyond]

204. it really is the bit of the opposite isnt it? i guess that is what is being argued here. they attack

and the military defend. or the govt attacks the citizens and the citizens defend.

not quite the same

dontcha think

[Name removed]

295. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RamboLiberal]

11. Marines vs Michigan militia

I know who I would bet on and it isn't the guys in the photo.

[Vinnie From Indy]

48. Amen!

All those right-wing wannabe rambos would literally shit their pants if they were on the receiving end of the US Marines or any other of the armed services. Like it or not, the US military is the most fearsome killing machine the world has ever known to this point in human history.

[Historic NY]

75. yeah they haven't slid away from a meal or a 6 pack in a long time.

[951-Riverside]

12. If he wrote that during the Bush administration many would call him a mouthpiece for Bush

Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you.

Shameful.

[Marr]

15. Thing is, he'd have had no reason to write that when Bush was in office.

The Democratic Party and it's associated mouthpieces weren't actively cultivating a siege mentality in their supporters and using dog whistle language to urge violence.

[seabeyond]

16. i dont agree. i think most all of us understood that weapons and violence would result

in exactly what this soldier said. i think it is absurd you would suggest that any duer would suggest the military would have come on our side if we had started war with the govt. that was not the issue in bushco time. the issue was in bush using the military to control the populace that did not provoke

[krkaufman]

134. Starting with the guy first screwed over by Bush.

Gore's "concession" speech after the Supreme Court anointed Bush was a clear statement that the rule of law, however flawed, must be followed.

[RamboLiberal]

17. Why shameful - I don't remember us calling for Civil War

or using a gun to overthrow our government. We talked about taking it back through justifiable impeachment and the ballot box.

The looney tune teabaggers and their cheerleaders threaten or imply violence, assasination, secession and civil war.

[Posteritatis]

19. What, precisely, is shameful about that? (nt)

[anigbrowl]

23. since nobody much was calling for an armed uprising then, he would not have had any reason to

I find nothing shameful about it - if anything it reminds basement revolutionaries that they're not just putting their own lives at risk if they take up arms against their fellow citizens.

[Bluebear]

44. Whaa?

[rusty fender]

133. Why do you still have a John Edwards avatar?

His image reminds everyone of the scumbag he is--what are you thinking? Really?:shrug:

[seabeyond]

135. fucking on terminally ill wife, having baby, denying existence is not shameful?

lol

good point on the hypocrisy scale

not that i care one way or another if poster have edward avatar. just thought your observation interesting

[alphafemale]

200. Good point. I don't need a schooling in ethics by that turd

And the quote was rather like the saying - "Why run? You'll just die tired."

Harsh?

Yes.

But we are talking the Marines here.

[sabrina 1]

255. The article has been deleted. I didn't read it, but from the comments

here I am really stunned that on this board his claims would be supported.

When there fear that Bush might deploy the military on U.S. streets, the left was outraged, and rightly so.

The U.S. military if for national defense only.

From this thread, it looks like many DUers lost their principles because of a few loud-mouthed tea-baggers who if they commit violent acts can be taken care of our civil law enforcement agencies.

I think that article was fake, to get a rise out of someone, maybe Liberals. It did certainly show a lot of hypocrisy on in this thread.

Anyhow, the article has been deleted and an awful lot of people here need to rethink what they are wishing for. Scary how many would support what that article was claiming to be a fact, rather than be outraged over it.

[Marr]

13. It addresses a good point. I do think a lot of the lunatics who

are screaming for a civil war just assume the military would be on their side. I suppose they think the military brass will just toss Obama out of the White House and install Rush Limbaugh or something.

[anigbrowl]

25. That is exactly what they assume.

Such folk always think that if they took up arms they would enjoy positions of leadership by default, and they only reason they don't now is because they are biding their time or some bullshit.

[Stand and Fight]

71. Just a couple of steps shy of the loons who say God is on their side.

These people really have no idea how seriously the majority of us take our oaths in the armed forces. They're in for a very rude awakening if they think the military is going to side with them in CIVIL revolt.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

92. A "couple of steps shy of the loons..."

Wrong - these teabaggers are the same loons who say God is on their side.

[seabeyond]

14. so clearly written. i printed this out for my boys to read so they will have a clear and percise

understanding of the view of military with this concept.

in the area we live in, the attitude that we will have revolution, civil war, whatever.... is fed to the kids. i want my boys to be able to express to the kids, the stupid their parents are teaching them

i would love to see news, maddow, others read this letter

[justinsb]

26. I didn't even see the articles he's talking about

and I'm in Canada but this morning I posted this - http://justinbeach.blogspot.com/2010/03/will-united-states-divide-into-multiple.html">"Will the United States divide into multiple countries?"

[Mudoria]

113. Interesting concept

However putting North Carolina and Virginia with the Northeastern states would never happen. Having lived in NC all my life I can assure you whichever way the rest of the South went would also be the way NC went. And I'm sure Virginia would as well. More affinity between Southerners than you think I'd say even though the politics of some of the deeper South states is entirely different than NC or Va. Still, this is not going to happen but it doesn't make good reading like an alternative history novel.

[seabeyond]

115. interesting yes. but no way. too many of the states are too diverse in political

party. too many of the people who are opposed to dem or obama wouldn't risk infrastructure, livelihood, fed govt for independence.

i am in texas. there are those few that have their secede stickers on vehicle and the vast majority of repugs in area feel it is foolish. so it would not only be the many people that support dems and obama, but it would also be the vast majority of people that didn't support obama that wouldn't allow this

further, i agree with a poster, local police alone would be the front line and not even get to point of civil war type thing

i think what the soldier is suggesting in his letter is the foolishness of the few that would live in an illusion to see that transpiring and pointing out the ridiculous to nip in bud immediately

[howard112211]

65. Aren't you usually the first to call out male machismo?

And now you are using a class A example of it to educate your kids?

[seabeyond]

78. i am the first to call out

lies, hypocrisy and lack of integrity.

the male machismo is not in a soldier doing his job. i have the utmost respect for a soldier doing his job in integrity.

the male machismo i will call out immediately in this story is that fat old fucks thinking they can take the military and the cops on. thinking to use violence cause they are angry. the lack of integrity full of lies and hypocrisy.

it isnt male i go after.

[Froward69]

20. Damn Skippy!

these words (or close to them) is what I tell republics every chance I get.

[Odin2005]

21. Excellent article, sarge!

:patriot:

[Name removed]

296. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[howard112211]

28. The Teabaggers think that part of the military is on their side. nt

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[howard112211]

29. I smell jingoism. Why hasn't the tough marine defeated the Taliban yet?

From the 1200 in Fallujah subtract 90% that were innocent bystanders.

[lunatica]

32. That's his point

He's talking of civilians thinking they can fight soldiers who are highly trained. The civilians will lose and he used Fallujah to make his point.

[howard112211]

64. I think his "point" is that he has his penis out and is showing it to people.

"innocent bystanders" as in "unarmed non-combatants" = people who had no interest in fighting and were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Any monkey with a machine gun can go downtown and rake up a body count. Big deal.

You know who else had pretty good "win ratios"? Timothy McVeigh, who was very proud of it (168 to 1). The Fort Hood shooter did pretty well against trained soldiers too.

I think this behavior is disgusting when the right wing displays it, and even more disgusting when the left does it.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

68. I agree about this guy having his penis out, but what he's saying is basically the deal.

If we had the equivalent of the civil war now, what's he's describing isn't far off the mark. We're not really anywhere near that though. Those calling for rebellion are just a small group of loud mouth babies, who aren't going to do shit. I could see some of those militias out west stir shit up, but I doubt it would go much beyond that.

[lunatica]

93. His article disturbed me quite a bit too

Because even though he makes an argument that's basically black and white with clear delineations he ignores the larger ranges of gray. Which fact is so he can live with what he does. I love our Constitution, mostly because it is clear yet open to interpretation. The Founding Fathers were truly visionary and understood that times change and history moves forever into the unknown as societies evolve.

His black/white perspective makes it possible for collateral damage which is far worse than any declared enemy is because it makes it possible to kill as many innocent people as 'is necessary' just to complete a mission, which may not be all that vital.

Reading this article I immediately knew I fall into the collateral damage column in this guys eyes. But I think that's his point. He's talking to ALL us soft civilians, and I believe him. That's the way it would be for us. There is reason to fear even if you aren't part of any conflict. All you have to be is close physically enough to one of these self appointed militia types and you're life is forfeit, even if you have no idea one may live only a few houses away.

[azul]

117. Are all soldiers expert on the constitutiion?

For instance, what do they do when a commander orders them to invade a country without congress declaring war, in violation of the constitution?

The point being, how many in the military will follow orders when their commander intentionally breaks his oath to defend and protect the constitution, believing that they are still acting lawfully?

I am no expert, obviously, but the constitution makes special attention to waging war. Congress declares war and orders the president to become commander in chief to wage war for the US.

Invading a country is an act of war, that is, a declaration of war. Presidents that declare war should be impeached and tried for breaking the oath of office, if not treason. Clear enough to me, but not my genius congressman. Foggy enough for waging war, and soldiers?

[shedevil69taz]

152. some of us are

The POTUS is CIC at all times not just when Congress has declared war. That being said he has the authority to send us wherever he feels appropriate without the consent of congress for up to 60 days. In that time period congress has to decide to declare war or tell the president to withdraw the troops.

There doesn't even have to be a formal declaration of war, all congress has to do is authorize the use of military forces to accomplish a specified objective.

[debunkthelies]

180. If he will defend

the Constitution then he would have to be on our side, because our Government is in violation of the Constitution on so many points I can't even keep track.
So my question is why does he feel he needs to warn us civilians? :dilemma:

[file83]

144. His other point is that he's a dumb jar head...

...who can't tell the difference between his "orders" and his oath to defend the U.S. Constitution.

His confusion is also furthered by the fact that he's conflating the U.S. Constitution with the corrupt politicians and bankers.

He's also mistaking the call for justice of those corrupt bodies by the people as a cry for "civil war".

Like I said, he's a dumb jar head.

He's defending the people that are violating the Constitution.

[Mithreal]

57. +1

[icee]

104. Exactly. So no matter what the government does to us, forget

a revolution because Sargent Badass and his comrades will frag us silly? When I was in Nam, this was the kind of guy who went on patrols looking both in front and behind for his reward.

[An_Opened_Hand]

30. Our Country is the Constitution.

It's good to see a person in the military so clearly state that.

[Birthmark]

31. Thank you, Sgt. C.

Someone needs to get through to these jugheads that civil war isn't a friggin' game. Their fantasy of heroic struggle is just that --a fantasy. If they try it, they will die in large numbers very quickly. There'll be nothing heroic or glorious about it. They will simply lose, survivors imprisoned.

They don't want that, we don't want that, I'm sure the military doesn't want that --and there is absolutely no reason for it in a representative republic. They need to quit being lazy. If they aren't happy, they should get to work to change things. But rest assured, that civil war is no shortcut to political nirvana.

It is a long road to a living hell for the nation they claim to love. And it's a road whose endpoint is unknown, though it's highly unlikely to lead to a better place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Let me answer this Sergeant i the way that I am sure you

have not thought about.

To those calling for civil war, you are right, they don't know what they are talking about.

BUT... look around your base, and wonder... how many of my squad mates will turn against me? How many of my officers will leave and fight me?

The problem with this is that if we actually go down that line of civil war, there is one component you are not taking into account... a few of your squad mates will turn on you.

This is why this is called a CIVIL WAR.

I point this out for a reason... if we go down that path (and lord knows I hope we don't but the sights of one are there)... this means a full breakdown of institutions, and that includes your beloved Corp.

[galileoreloaded]

37. See my post Nadin. This "everything is OK" stuff is pure folly. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I know it is

and I doubt this is even somebody in the corp. Way too much bravado, as well as another little detail.... most service members know better... and do not get involved in these games, nor do they have the time for these games.

And if we go down civil war... the military will be balkanized among the lines of as many sides as this war takes and the few that will just simply walk away.

I've seen the result of a real life modern civil war... so that is another piece of experience that this guy (or gal) does not understand, but is counting on the average ignorance of most Muricans.

[Mithreal]

58. +1

[cali]

85. but not quite as silly as the doomsday is imminent shit.

[fishwax]

109. +1

[Raksha]

136. This is exactly why the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs is being "Talibanized"

by the Dominionist religious right. It's in preparation for that possibility, which they hope to make a reality.

Re "BUT... look around your base, and wonder... how many of my squad mates will turn against me? How many of my officers will leave and fight me?

The problem with this is that if we actually go down that line of civil war, there is one component you are not taking into account... a few of your squad mates will turn on you.

This is why this is called a CIVIL WAR."

They are grooming as many potential turncoats as possible. Scary stuff!

[MineralMan]

34. The Freepers and other assorted wingers don't know what a

civil war is. When they say that they want such a thing, they really mean that they want others to fight it for them. The militia types are unequipped and incapable of actually waging war. About the only thing they could manage is shooting some unarmed people.

Their training is a joke. Their "arsenals" are a joke. Their numbers are so small that a small town police department would have little problem neutralizing any of the current militias. Fighting an army is laughable for them.

They think the military would be on their side. They're dumber than hammers. Have they looked at the demographics of today's military? Seriously.

There will be no civil war. There may be a few individuals who take some sort of violent action. That would not surprise me at all. But the little ragtag groups of "soldiers" in the militia groups are hopelessly undermanned and under armed.

I was thinking the other night what I'd do if a bunch of them started up my street for some reason, with killing and mayhem on their minds. It occurred to me that every deer I've ever shot has been from 200-400 yards away. My sportsterized Springfield 30-'06 is in a locked closet. I fire it annually and sight it in at 200 yards. It still is accurate, and so am I. I have 250 rounds of 180 grain ammunition in that same closet.

One by one. They wouldn't even see me. They're fools and morons. I know I won't ever have to resort to such actions, but I wouldn't even be alone. Three of my neighbors, all also Democrats, are also deer hunters. And those are just the ones I know. There are probably others. March up my street? Not a chance. It ain't happening.

[MicaelS]

35. Those people who don't like the current system

Need to change it, WITHIN the system. Start a movement to call a Constitutional Convention and Amend the Constitution. But anyone who starts an armed revolt needs to know that they will probably be killed during their "revolution", or be executed for Treason later.

[galileoreloaded]

36. Sorry, but I seriously doub't a USM wrote this. Utter BS propaganda written to calm the left.

Let me deconstruct, and those in the know can chime in.

1. This was written by someone who's grandiose sense of ability reeks of a lack of experience or better yet NO experience. We have been getting our ASS kicked by TWO uneducated and relatively unsupported insurgencies. The typical American citizen with access to the internet and a 6th grade education in science is light years ahead of the average Iraqi/Afgan as a war fighter.

2. The fat and slow argument is a COMPLETE non-starter to an American force that relies so heavily on technology. Without Gen 3 Night Vision and Thermal, we would have pulled out of a ground offensive in defeat YEARS ago. He ran 5 miles. Big whoop. Take three months, get in shape. I know ALOT of Corporal Creampie types, mostly Reserves.



3. As for marksmanship, most of these guys have a boot/AIT allowance of around 1000 rounds or less before they get shipped over there. A person here could accomplish the same thing in 2 weeks with a good class. Male and Female.

4. I know a DI that can't speak w/out a PROFOUND acquired stutter, due to PTSD and 4 tours. Our Military is wore the fuck out, and NOT thinking straight.

I could go on but I am getting worked up. This is psyops to the extreme, designed to get you to let down your guard, forward it around and tell your kids that everything will be alright. It's bullshit.

The service will be just as Balkanized as the rest of the country if things ever go south. Lets just hope the money holds out, cause thats when it get REAL interesting.

[howard112211]

40. Thanks. I admire people of all types who display humility as you just have.

Be safe.

[johnnie]

41. He looks like a Marine to me

He's been writing at that site for a few years. Do you think he was just waiting around for the opportunity?


http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/21/4048300-what-does-this-marine-do-on-a-beautiful-san-diego-morning-he-goes-out-and-plays-in-the-mud

[leftstreet]

42. +1

:applause:

[cynatnite]

50. Well, I knew a lot of soldiers who could have written that letter...

The DI I had in the Army had a PH.D and was a Vietnam vet. Much of this is what we were taught in basic training. Also, my cousin is currently a DI. He has a college degree and is quite bright. Just don't talk to him about Bush. He'll pop a blood vessel. He's did two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan.

There are really a lot of smart individuals in the military and there are a lot of dumb ones, too...just like any other segment of our society.

[Hardrada]

51. What about the example of Spain in 1936?

What if the junior officers have ideas of their own? We are also a very large sort of banana republic as well.

[NAO]

55. Spain 1936, Chile 1973, Honduras 2009

The military deposed the democratically elected government.

And they didn't even have Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, etc. to alert them to the fact that 'liberty was in danger'.

[rockymountaindem]

98. No, but Spain did have the Catholic church to tell everyone that the government

was nothing but communists, atheists and Soviet agents despite the fact that not a single communist had a portfolio. I'd say that's better propaganda than even Limbaugh, because even though that guy has an ego the size of the sun, he doesn't claim to speak with the authority of God.

[NAO]

131. You are so right. The Pope not only protects pedophiles, he endorses fascists

Ah, from the suppression of the 'heretics' in the first few centuries, thru the collapse of Western Civilization, the Dark Ages, the Inquisition, the denouncement of scientific truths, the endorsement of fascists, the destruction of popular left movements in Central America, the condemnation of birth control in an overpopulation crisis, the prohibition of condoms in Africa where AIDS is killing millions, to the protecting of pedophiles - What will the Vicar of Christ think of next?

Reflecting on the history of the Church actually makes me feel a little better about Democrats. Yes, they can shoot themselves in the foot...sure, they can fumble over and over while inches from the goal posts...but they don't cause anything remotely like the stagnation, death, and suffering as the Church.

(In historical retrospect, the pedophile scandal seems like one of the Churches lesser injuries to the human race.)

Here's to Joey Ratz, a.k.a. The Panzer Pope, Protecter of Pedophiles, who, before he made Pope was head of The Inquisition (now euphamistically called "The Congreation of the Body of the Faithful").

[rockymountaindem]

140. I'm not here to rip the Catholic Church up and down

I just wanted to point out that the military coup in Spain had plenty of propaganda behind them.

[NAO]

196. The Pope of the Religious Right, Dr. James Dobson, and his Evangelical Mega-church Pastors

They are constantly spewing right-wing propaganda from the pulpit. They use language of "Patriots" and have been fulminating about Obama - comparing abortion to the Holocaust - for over a year.

I think I remember some famous guy once saying something like, "People are in rough times, and they are clinging to rhetoric of God and Guns"

[patrice]

275. Absolutists do not need to claim to speak with the authority of God, because they assume they OWN

the Ultimate Truth anyway and that truth is theirs EXCLUSIVELY.

Though I do agree with you that churches ARE more dangerous because they DO make that divine claim that IS more powerful and influential over those who do not examine the logic of secular Absolutism.

[jeff47]

102. I think you're over-analyzing and over-reacting

"The typical American citizen with access to the internet and a 6th grade education in science is light years ahead of the average Iraqi/Afgan as a war fighter. "

Not when it comes to fighting wars. For example, the Afghans have been constantly at war for centuries.

"The fat and slow argument is a COMPLETE non-starter to an American force that relies so heavily on technology."

Do you really think the 'basement brigade' that forms the tea party is not going to be full of 'Corporal Creampies'?

"A person here could accomplish the same thing in 2 weeks with a good class. Male and Female."

It's difficult to get range time in for your revolutionaries when the military is actively hunting you. Point being they aren't going to get two weeks, and a whole lot of the people calling for civil war aren't good shots already.

"The service will be just as Balkanized as the rest of the country if things ever go south."

Doubtful. If the winguts get the civil war they want, there will only be 2 sides, not balkanization. And from the military folks I've dealt with over the years, only a small percentage would join the insurrection. Just 'cause they're soldiers doesn't mean they are all dumb enough to follow the tea party movement.

[John Q. Citizen]

139. Could you please substanciate this statement?

"..the Afghans have been constantly at war for centuries."

No they haven't been constantly at war for centuries.

Unless by "centuries" you mean the last 15 years of the 20th century and the first 10 years of the 21st century.


That adds up to 25 years though, not "centuries."

[jeff47]

225. History is long

They've been at war against external powers or among themselves for a very, very, very long time. A big part of why the external powers show up is they think it'll be easy since the Afghanis were in the midst of a low-intensity civil war.

And then the US shows up...or the Soviets...or the British...or Alexander the Great.

[mckara]

111. I Hope You Are Wrong

I know when I was serving, we were all Americans first and foremost, but that was years ago.

[patrice]

188. the Left? This guy will kill ANYONE he's ordered to. OP is from same source as that Leni Riefenstahl

piece of shit reeking propaganda for the National Guard that is running in our theaters right now. "Come and raise your hand and swear, under threat of imprisonment or death, to kill whomever 'we' order you to kill."

[Name removed]

300. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Wizard]

43. A note to confederate hillbillies

How did that last Civil War work out for you?
I was a well trained, well armed soldier 42 years ago, and machine guns fired at me was the most unpleasant experience I've ever had.
There might be some in uniform who would dessert and join the confederates. They will be found and summarily executed. Military justice is swift and brutal when it comes to treason. The blindfolds and cigarettes will be the clue that serving in uniform and turning the weapons against your country is not a game.

[MattBaggins]

45. Devil's advocate here and nothing more

Hell I would be fighting on the side of the government if these guys really started an insurrection, which they won't by the way.

This Marine mistakenly believes such a war would be civil. He forgets that when fighting such a force most of them will go underground and not be stupid enough to face them head on. These groups would go after soft targets taking out Politicians and finding out where the officers live. Who cares about going off in the woods to face a unit of well trained marines when you can just find out where the officers live and attack their homes. Such a silly war would not be the piece of cake he envisions. It would be harder than what they face in Iraq since they would have an enemy that would be able to find where they come from and attack them there as well as bypass them and go right for their leaders, uniformed and civilian. Don't assume the militias would fight honorably face to face.

Of course this would be if they actually had the supposed 3% or 10% or what ever silly number they claim to have. They are but a handful of silly senile old goobers.

[HughMoran]

76. Of course the chaos & fear would be real

...& that is essentially the point of his article - "...do you really want to live in a country where chaos rules? Do you want to risk seeing your family members being shot as collateral damage?" He is talking to the hot-shots who have delusions of grandeur in their tiny little heads.

[MattBaggins]

103. That is the problem

Some of them might be nutty enough think it's a good idea.

It would fail not from Marines hitting small town with mortar rounds. It would fail long before that as their neighbors and local police would be first to kick their silly fat asses long before the Marines ever needed to get involved.

They would get a huge rude awakening when they tried to start instilling terror and find out how fast their own community would turn on them.

[MadMaddie]

46. This Marine nails it!

These acts of violence against other Americans is a direct attack on the Constitution.

These people have viewed war on the sterile television and view it at as video game or tv show.

Those that wish civil war should pay attention to this Marines warning.

[The Magistrate]

47. The Good Sergeant, Sir, Is One Helluva Marine!

[northofdenali]

49. K&R. Unfortunately, those who need to heed these words

probably can't read them.

[NAO]

52. I needed to hear this...esp after reading about the "Oath Keepers"

The "Oath Keepers" are a group of active and retired military and law enforcement people who have pre-decided what orders they will and will not obey. They claim to be loyal only to "the Constitution".

It looks to me like a very common way that right-wing military coups play out is that people democratically elect a left-leaning government, and then some hard rightists decide that the new administration is "in violation of 'the Constitution'". I'm thinking specifically of Spain 1936; Chile 1973; and Honduras 2009.

I hope that this Marine is representative of our military personal.

I know that, just like many US civilians, many US military personal are right-wing in their politics.

And I know that just like civilians, military personal listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, etc. Now I know that military personal have a vastly better ability to wage combat than civilians, as this Marine points out - but do they also have a stronger ability to resist succumbing to propaganda...espeically if it reinforces what they already, by temperament, believe? Can they tell that it is just propaganda, designed to stoke up emotions, or might they think it an alarm call to 'defend freedom'?

So there is my concern. If these angry nut-jobs go far enough, and do create a civil war...they will have brought their own paranoid delusions into reality. If there are enough of them, and they create massive, wide-scale violence, President Obama WILL actually declare martial law (because he has to, not because he had it planned all along).

These 'Patriots' will be forcibly disarmed, stripped of their 2nd Amendment Rights. They might even be detained in FEMA camps. And they will get to say, "we told you this was coming".

I guess you do really create your own reality.

[Name removed]

301. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hekate]

53. Beautifully written. He writes from experience the things I have tried to say several times...

... since joining DU in 2002. I'm a civilian, always have been. But everything Sgt C says in his essay aligns with my readings and observations.

This should be required reading for every Repub, Freeper, and homegrown terrorist, not to mention plain old hotheads.

The federal government has the Marines. And the Army. And...

Hekate

[Hekate]

54. KnRnB. Highly recommended.

[47of74]

56. The Marine should go post that up on RimJob's site...

See how long it lasts there before RimJob removes it and banishes him from Freeper land.

[howard112211]

66. Either that, or he would get applauded by the freepers for being such a tough guy.

[Mopar151]

59. The Sarge makes many good points

I read somthing similar, a few years ago - by a Special Forces soldier, who sympathised with white supremacists - and was warning his "brethren" in the "movement" that they were not - and never would - be ready to take on the military.

Personally, I do not beleive that these loudmouth goobers are brave or noble enough to take on the military, or any sort of secure government installation. Their models are murderers and psychopaths - Quantrill's Raiders, the "Mine Police" and goon squads who murdered with impunity in the "Coalfield Wars", The Klansmen and allied locals who wiped out a town or 2 in the South - Lynch mobs, The RW fool who shot up those dangerous Unitarians (who sustained fewer casualties than trained soldiers in a similar situation). Are they dangerous? Hell Yes! Look at McVeigh & Nichols in OKC, the Order, or Clyde Barrow.
If this is not a time for Homeland Security to be on double shifts - what do we have them for? Tank farms, chemical plants, Oil Refineries and Haz-Mat haulers all need some looking after. ALL our police forces should be keeping an eye on these morons and wannabe assasians - last I knew, you could be arrested for criminal threatening or inciting to riot, and the police could question you without a lot of probable cause. And there are some command-level police and military who should be having some quiet little chats with "Oath Keepers" under their command.
Maybe it's time for Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity to have some "guests', to explain things like the Sarge did here.

[Name removed]

302. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

304. you are going up and down board defending oath whatevers... and insulting duers, suggesting they be

in the "gulag" that YOU have decided this poster belongs... i would imagine you are a particpant of oath whatevers or a believer, and if this is the mentality.... it is exactly the scary we want our military to be able to address if the need arises.

[upi402]

60. I hope this isn't a wind up

Is it real? Anyway, I think the guy is right.

I know a couple Navy Seals and one Ranger. Those 3 could've cleaned out that Teabagger rally quick-fast.

At a concert; Some kid got rough with the Ranger in a mosh pit, his buddies tried to help him. It was a clear circle real fast, bare ground 30' around. We had to leave fast. They are wild at heart it seemed to me, and definitely not conservatives. More like pro-worker libertarian, or anarchists who like to enforce order -LOL

I always tell NRA fanatics who spout off about fighting a government gone bad. I tell them that one APC full of marines would make your army-mans gun club horizontal before you got the Weber grill set up.

[lazarus]

62. copyright violation

j420norcal: Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs. Thank you.

[j420norcal]

67. Understood...

It was my original understanding that I only had to name the source and post a link, but I will summarize keeping all copied content short from this point forward. My apologies.

[B Calm]

63. Not only would they have to face the power of the US military, they

would have millions of armed liberals veterans like myself.

[elehhhhna]

84. and us libs who armed ourselves for protection during the BA.

[SolidGold]

266. Rednecks think we aren't armed as well - WRONG

The rednecks driving this thing think liberals are afraid of guns. I've been handling guns since I was 6 years old. Just because guns are deadly and cause death doesn't mean we don't understand and exercise our rights (we just do it with safety!).

I'm no gun nut but I've got plenty of gear and ammo just like the bible thumping god loving guns blazing republican/teabaggers that think I'm not armed.

[Stand and Fight]

69. Just to add emphasis to what the Devil Dog is saying there...

When I served in the Army from the late-90s to the mid-2000s, one question I would often ask my soldiers centered around what they would do if their family or friends became domestic terrorists. Seventy percent of the time, the answer was instantaneous and direct, "I'd keep my oath and defend the Constitution." I had this conversation hundreds of times during my time in the Army. I seriously doubt much has changed in the few short years since I got out of uniform.

Recommended.

[mmonk]

72. Excellent. Thank you.

[Zech Marquis The 2nd]

73. I'm about to attend my first Army function today

As a brand new E-3 in the Army, I'll be going to a Future soldier function at Fort Eurtis :bounce: When I was sworn in up at MEPS earlier this month, I swore that I would defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. I'd hate for have to face some wingnut tea baggers, BUT..if they were crazy enough to start some serious shit, then I'll defend this country and make their asses pay! NObody wants to go to war (no one in their right mind that is), so the idiots better reconsider--i wouldn't start SHIT with any of my fellow military service members!

[lunatica]

99. My question is, have you considered they might hide among innocent people?

Which is exactly what they would do. It's not always a clear cut eventuality. If your answer is you'd do it anyway, then I hope I'm not standing next to a teabagger I don't even know is a teabagger when you shoot.

[Maru Kitteh]

194. Congrats on your enlistment! SIL just swore in on Tuesday. We're very proud of him.

[patrice]

278. "Nobody wants to go to war" . . . ? So, you joined under false-pretenses, because that IS your job.

You are to follow orders ANY orders from ANYONE in the position to give them, no matter who gets killed, whether you "want" to or not.

It looks just REALLY disengenuous bullshit to put yourself in a situation IN WHICH YOU HAVE NO CHOICE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT or DON'T WANT and then talk about what "(you) don't want".

Am I wrong in hypothesizing that the only explanation for such an apparent contradiction is that, somewhat like OP, you are excited by the prospect of killing? Just repeating what others have said to you "No one wants to go to war" does NOT make it True.

In short, look at the history of the human species and tell me again that "No one wants to go to war". If they didn't want it, it would not be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo common. Despite all of the HORRORS they do it anyway, that's because the DO want it. OP and others in this thread clearly demonstrate how HIGH people get off of the mear imagination of such a powerful prospect.

[Name removed]

303. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DailyGrind51]

74. The problem is that "tea-baggers" would probably think the Marine is not talking about them.

"Tea-baggers" believe that the 2nd Amendment is the only valid one!

[Roland99]

79. Is there another link for this? That one doesn't work.

[Roland99]

82. Working now...weird. tried multiple laptops and multiple browsers.

oh well.

[Historic NY]

80. Those calling for or promoting a coup d'état are already disrespecting the Constitution..

as the writer says there is a remedy its called the ballot box not the bullet box. The teabaggers and their ilk don't seem to have an understanding of our Constitution much beyond the 2nd amendment.

[elehhhhna]

83. Oh my. Thank you, sir.

[proReality]

86. Just passed that on to some of the rabid.

Maybe it will cool them down a bit.

Thanks for finding and posting it.

[Turborama]

87. Excellent piece, not sure why he had to equate their seditious crap to Al Jazeera, though n/t

[judesedit]

88. THANK YOU, SGT C USMC

I'd like to remind all those wanting to quit the country. Say good-bye to your social security, disability and veterans' benefits when you do. Don't let the door hit your asses. That's more for us.

[judesedit]

90. Oops! Forgot Medicare

[seabeyond]

91. the funniest is the man advocating throwing breaks in window.... on DISABILITY. like joe

the plumber on welfare

[Ikonoklast]

94. Pros vs. Joes

Smart money bets experience over exuberanmce.

[defendandprotect]

96. The GOP/right wing elites benefit from a violent America . ..

NRA/GOP arming America - fear mongering --

NRA/GOP "pro-life" murderers -- destroying women's clinics with no reaction from government.

GOP/media propaganda advocating violence --

GOP/Drug War building a prison system which threatens democracy -- 12% of AA locked up!

GOP/Economic Instability -- bankrupting of our Treasury for Wars and Tax Cuts on Rich!

GOP/RCC -- destroying Separation of Church & State --


Remember, one of Ollie North's assignments was to find ways to tear up the Constitution!!

[OxQQme]

97. Sorry to rain on this parade

Can you say "Kent State"?
Sounds to me like the mind set of one of the shooters there.
"We are INVINCIBLE. Do not fuck with us!"

ps: I was an active Marine from '58 to '62.

[L0oniX]

101. +1

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein

[icee]

106. Exactly. I'm former military myself, but getting old. If and when

the "Revolution" breaks out, I'll be looking for the Sargent--not those citizens who have reached their limit.

[icee]

112. Exactly. This is the kind of dude that was shooting peasants

tending their fields because they were in the way of some insane patrol searching for NVA and the Red Menace. And maybe even the kind that would have halted the Revolutionary War because it was against his alignment of the universe. This wasn't the type of soldier that sided WITH the people in Russia when Yeltsin came to power. I'm from Ohio. I remember Kent State.

[G_j]

119. yep

reality check!

[xynthee]

187. I'm glad someone on here sees it this way!

This whole thread gives me the creeps. :scared:

[G_j]

205. agreed nt

[patrice]

232. meeee tooooo!!!

[Name removed]

305. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

100. The most powerful article I've ever read in a while, creating chaos is undoubtedly...

anti-constitutional. It's not a fight they want they are a minority, it's not a fight we want the marine in this article is begging please don't make his fellow marines do this. Civil war is a self inflicted wound, those on the right need to love themselves (not in n a bravado way but a caring one) understand their connection to everyone to make the country function. A nation is just a land mass without its people.

[Rex]

107. Yeah, I'm sure the Redcoats were thinking the same thing about

the shit farmers down the row. Lazy, out of shape, blah blah blah... :eyes:

It is like I am young and back in AIT all over again - marines talking tough shit. Ooooh, scary.

AS IF anyone really will start a civil war, geez some people are fucking stupid from the day they were born.

[leeroysphitz]

110. Well thats some right pretty agitprop. :slow clap: n/t

[idahoblue]

114. This will be over their heads

The violent teabrains he is speaking to will think he is on their side, they think the liberals are unconstitutional. They don't know anything about democracy or the constitution. I was going to send it to the teabaggers in my address book but decided they would not understand it.

[conspirator]

116. This marine seems to forget that a civil war is only possible when some military turn sides nt

[lonestarnot]

148. First thing impalin palin asked in Mesa today was how many military people were

there. They were noteabley identified, even a break in the introductions to do so. I found it odd.

[L0oniX]

120. The civil war would be between Dems and repukes, not civilians and the government.

A war between people and the government would be a revolt or revolution. It's nice to have this ass carrot confirm that the military will shoot civilians. I hate the military!

Blind obedience to authority is the enemy of the truth. - Albert Einstein

Become an internationalist and learn to respect all life. Make war on machines. And in particular the sterile machines of corporate death and the robots that guard them. -Abbie Hoffman

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

128. What have we here?

'Its already happened once when Abraham Lincoln and the republicans beat the democrats, it was called the Revolutionary War.'

:rofl:

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Contrary1]

137. No problem, hard to type when you're ogling Sarah Palin. n/t

[ecstatic]

127. That was my first thought, but the marine is on to something

If the repubs are against dems (the ones in power), they are against the current government. Thus, their grievance is with the US Government, not us.

[Uncle Joe]

121. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, norcal and Semper Fi to the good Sergeant.:thumbsup:

[L0oniX]

123. Yea ..we already know you will murder us ...asshole!

Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre.

[Uncle Joe]

130. Did the Kent State protesters take up arms or did they just protest?

[tiny elvis]

138. protesters smashed some windows

and started a bonfire in the street three days earlier
campus rotc building was burned two days before massacre
curfew imposed on students
may 4 protest claimed to be a violation of something by university

[Uncle Joe]

143. I don't see this Marine as implicitly or explicitly advocating the murder of civilians as post 123#

alludes.

I will readily admit the vandalism sentence is the biggest problem with the O.P. being in such a gray area, a bonfire and a few smashed windows being one thing and torching an entire section of the city another.

Having said that I do believe the author's primary intent was to quell the extremist elements; advocating for violent overthrow of the U.S. Government, no matter which side they were on. To that effect, I must agree with him.

[newspeak]

236. actually I have a book on the Kent event

There was a young man, whom the police knew, he was an instigator for the destruction of businesses. He kept yelling at the crowd to break windows and set buildings on fire. He attempted to set a building on fire-did I mention the cops knew him and they didn't arrest him? Another item that was mentioned (and a diagram) that the guards were not surrounded by protesters, and that the guard in unison turned and fired. So, the author was arguing that it was deliberate and not random firing from fear of being surrounded or cornered.

[cherokeeprogressive]

125. I must have awakened in an alternate universe this morning. 165 recs for a Marine talking about

killing American citizens. A Marine using the term "win-ratio" when what he means is "KILL RATIO".

"Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire... dragging your wounded child behind you". "envision a stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn" "heed my words".

He ends with a statement about how he would follow a "frag order" in Maryland, North Dakota, or Texas.

I'm thinking he should put his dick back in his pants and go back to being the mindless killing machine he brags about being and DU'ers are rec'ing this to high heaven.

Yup. I'm going to go back to bed and hope I wake up in the same universe I did yesterday.

Concerning his brag about the "win-ratio" (that one still makes me laugh... way to sanitize it for some of the more sensitive DU'ers. Can you say "doublespeak"?) in Fallujah, here's some information DU'ers seem to have overlooked or conveniently forgotten while reading his testosterone soaked screed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre

[file83]

147. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

I don't hang out in the DU as much as I used to back in the Bush years.

So I come by here today to see what's on the Greatest page, only to find this.

It shows me that the DU has swung so far left that they've gone around the far far right.

The DU'rs here are so militant against their political enemies that they support the military killing those Americans.

Wow. Just wow.

Sad, depressing, and pathetic. And not uncommon around here. It's why I don't contribute here anymore.

:thumbsdown:

[Uncle Joe]

150. So if Beck, Limbaugh, Cheney and/or their followers began a violent overthrow of the Obama

Administration, you would rather the armed forces just allow them to do so?

[cherokeeprogressive]

153. So you think a handful of extremists are really going to attempt armed overthrow of the government?

I don't.

[Uncle Joe]

155. I never said a handful and logic dictates if the armed forces were to abandon their oath

to "defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic" it wouldn't take as many radicals to violently overthrow the government.

What is to prevent a mercenary group like Blackwater/Xe from eventually gaining enough strength to do so if they weren't opposed by the nation's military?

[cherokeeprogressive]

162. I guess I just don't share that concern.

For all of their hyberbole and rhetoric, I don't see them as a threat anywhere other than the ballot box. I don't believe Blackwater is going to violently overthrow the government either.

I AM concerned at a Marine's boast that he'd "frag" people from Maryland, North Dakota, or Texas though, and all it would take is an order from his superiors. Fuck me but as a Veteran myself I don't think I'd be able to follow an order like that.

Lastly, I think ANY group that dreams of overthrowing the US government, and doesn't number in the MILLIONS, is blowing smoke up their own ass.

[Uncle Joe]

175. Blackwater and other mercenary groups primarily care about one thing; money.

If a right wing loony tunes with enough power promised Blackwater or some other group a large chunk of the nation's wealth to overthrow the government and the armed forces didn't give a rat's ass about defending the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, while just staying on the sidelines, who would have the arms to stop such a coup from taking place?

Furthermore what would be the result of the military sitting out, civilians against civilians, police against police? That's a civil war.

My definition of domestic is all 50 states and the District of Columbia, apparently the Founders thought this potential "hyperbole" was enough of a threat to include and domestic in the required oath for everyone in Government along with the military. I believe he was just using those states as examples to clarify the point.

[file83]

171. Depends on how you define "enemies".

Fellow Americans that call out corrupt politicians and bankers as being against the National Interest and violating their oaths to uphold the Constitution by destroying the economic infrastructure of this nation while robbing the taxpayers....those fellow Americans are not who I would label enemies.

You would, and do. So you defend the very people destroying this nation, like this Marine does.

I wouldn't, and don't. So killing those Americans not only violates their Constitutional rights, it's a war crime.

Be careful who you consider your enemy. Just because they wear nice suits or uniforms does not mean they are your friend.

[Uncle Joe]

184. And he defines it with his first sentence.

"An article I wish I would never have to write - To those calling for a civil war, this Marine wants you to stop, and think...

It's been said that the military is always preparing for war. That is true. We prepare for combat every day. We ran 5 miles today to the rifle range and shot nearly 200 rounds a piece at targets and then ran back. However, we also pray for peace. I would love one day to be completely unnecessary. But alas, I am a realist, and I know that day will never come.

The headlines of the last week have reminded me more of glimpsing at the S2 Daily Briefing Sheets while in theater or the Al-Jazeera than the NY Times or the Washington Post. Think about that for a moment, let it sink in.

Before I get into the main premise of this article - I need to make two statements here.

First and foremost , when it comes to the back and forth of who did what to whom and why - I don't give a @!$%#. It doesn't change the action. In life we're judged by our actions, nothing more, nothing less. One of the greatest things of the military is when it comes to an enemy, the politics behind the situation - don't matter in accomplishing that mission. For the military , life is simple in that regard.

Secondly, Regardless of your political ideology, you've earned the right as US Citizens to say your piece - no matter how wrong it may be. That is your right, and I will give my life to protect it.

But this government of ours is a democracy. We vote for our representatives, and they vote in our interests. Sometimes, the votes don't go our way. That's life, better luck next time. Exhaust your legislative options, and then focus on gaining the required votes and/or seats to achieve your desired legislative vote next election time. That's the way things work.

But the SECOND you start committing acts of violence and vandalism, then you've usurped that Constitution. You in a way have assaulted it. And then you and I (I being every servicemember who has sworn to defend said Constitution) will have a MAJOR PROBLEM.

For those of you calling for a civil war, I implore you to stop and think about what you're saying. Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance."

[file83]

193. Calling for the protection of the U.S. Constitution does NOT = Civil War

But since the Marine says it does, I guess we better follow the intellect of a grunt Marine.

You would like to think that your fellow American citizens who are Constitutionalists and are calling for justice are instead calling for "Civil War". But that is not what they are calling for. It's what people like this "Marine" are calling for if they follow the Un-Constitutional orders of going to war with American citizens who are going to organize and take action against the people destroying this nation.

American citizens, mind you, who PAY for the very military that is threatening them against trying to have a say about what happens with this Nation's future.

Oh, but I guess you aren't going to think for yourself, you'd rather let a U.S. Marine jar head do your thinking for you.

[Uncle Joe]

202. Why do you assume that he interprets calling for protection of the Constitution

or justice = Civil War, what part of his letter or words gives you that impression?

Also if you believe in protecting the Constitution, what part of that document authorizes the American People to wage war or violent insurrection against their own government?

[file83]

211. If the government is destroying the Constitution....

...then the people participating in said destruction are violating their oaths of office, and are by definition no longer valid members of government. So citizens that remove those criminals from power are not attacking government, nor declaring "Civil War".

Now, in that process, until those criminals are removed from power, they will "order" the standing army to defend them, which is what you expect.

And that is where this Marine comes in. If he follows those orders to protect the criminals, he is in fact violating his oath, not upholding it. And he will be in the minority. Many of his fellow Marines know the difference between legal orders, and illegal orders.

And the fact that so many DU'rs don't recognize that distinction is what I find pathetic.

[Uncle Joe]

217. If the government is destroying the Constitution, is violence the only recourse?

This Marine was speaking to violent overthrow, not protest, strike, boycott, judicial redress or petition.

If you support violent overthrow of what you perceive to be a trashing of the Constitution, what is to prevent those people believing the opposite of you from having the same right?

[file83]

226. It wouldn't be an "overthrow".

An "overthrow" is a change in governments, which implies destruction of the structure. This would be a restoration of government by removing those who violated their oaths to serve.

What I support is the restoration, a peaceful one. But only if those in power chose not to abuse their (illegal) power by using force (military) to defend the restoration process. If they do that, then it is they who are choosing violence as the only alternative.

Of course, some will choose to just let the destruction of our nation go on, because they don't want to see "violence" and want to be peaceful. They justify this by being blind and turning their apathy and submissiveness into righteousness.

[Uncle Joe]

242. When you believe violence to be a legitimate a right to

"restore" government, that right is highly subjective, and can only lead to increasing anarchy as each side believing it self to be a victim, while the powers that be play each side of pawns against the other for their own personal gain.

Eventually Afghanistan and Somalia would have nothing on us in regards to chaos and societal breakdown.

[dem mba]

160. Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City,

Need I go on?

No, these small "extremist" groups are not going to "overthrow" anything, but there are enough nuts out there to demand our vigilance, especially in this highly polarized climate. I think the author of the post was just asking the tea party macho men to cool their jets, nothing more.

But make no mistake, these threats are real and should be taken seriously.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/militia_m.asp?xpicked=4&item=19
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/04/us-surge-rightwing-extremist-groups

[file83]

173. Equating those nut jobs with Americans who are concerned for their nation

exposes your biased agenda. You are just like that "marine".

[dem mba]

191. right

because there are no nut jobs in the tea party movement or anything...

:eyes:

[file83]

195. You are in all that debt to pay for an MBA...

...and all you got out of it was sarcasm?

Sucks to be you.

[jtuck004]

259. Don't forget it just took a couple guys to blow down the Federal Bldg in Oklahoma City

They thought it was going to be the beginning, and that thousands would follow. Instead all their followers stayed at home and watched them be convicted on tv.

But they killed 168 good people in the process.

It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that a few of these teabaggers might have convinced themselves that if they start the dance, others will follow.

That's the question...

[cherokeeprogressive]

151. I could hardly believe my eyes this morning.

That DU'ers would stand and cheer the possibility of violence against ANYONE seems sort of alien to me. The hatred of "Them" is so deeply felt that it's somehow now excusable.

A brick was thrown through a window. It was reported that someone was spit on. Someone was called a nigger. How that leads to what the supposed Marine wrote is beyond me. That DU'ers would cheer "win-ratios" that are acually "KILL RATIOS" seems like something out of a Twilight Zone episode.

[seabeyond]

159. for you to interpret it and duers in that manner says a lot. no one is cheering a fight. what is

being a praised is rational discourse to discourage violence. not a single duer on this thread has applauded violence and for you to construe the responses in this manner is not only unfair, but your continuing agenda to type dems adn repugs alike. a quest you started in another thread.

the posters here does not jive with your conclusions.

[cherokeeprogressive]

167. I think the OP was an exercise in dick waving, and the majority of responses supported it.

From the OP "It(sic) would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so."

"I was only following orders" Have you ever heard that one before?

From the new Army recruit "I'd hate for have to face some wingnut tea baggers, BUT..if they were crazy enough to start some serious shit, then I'll defend this country and make their asses pay!"

Rational discourse. Yup.

[seabeyond]

178. you see it as dick waving. many dont see it as dick waving. because you see it as dick waving

and there are a number of duers supporting the op, you then pin the supporters as embracing the dick waving. instead of considering... others do not see it and interpret it as dick waving, ergo they are not supporting dick waving.

we see it as rational discourse. you disagree with rational discourse? that can be my only conclusion from how you make your statement towards fellow duers

oh no wait... that isnt right. you arent opposed to rational discourse. you see it as dick waving, not rational discourse. that is where we and you disagree....

not on promoting dick waving or violence.

[cherokeeprogressive]

210. You call it rational discourse. I'll stand by my right to disagree, and call it dick waving.

I'm glad you speak for all of DU. Two years ago, when we were stating our intent to "take the government back", a post like this would have been alerted on, locked, and deleted. I'm sure of it.

"Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire (ostensibly from MY rifle, should I get the proper order) as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you."

"Imagine the deafening report of a mortar (ostensibly dropped into the mortar tube by MY hand, should I get the proper order) as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum."

"Try and envision a Stryker (ostensibly driven by ME, should I get the proper order) rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 (ostensibly piloted by ME, targeting YOU, should I get the proper order) making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance."

"It would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so."

This Marine is generally saying that he'd attack Americans with his rifle, attack their homes with mortars, armored vehicles, and air power simply for advocating something. We both know that no one is going to "war". Not now, not ever. It's all hyperbole and rhetoric filled with histrionics. On BOTH sides.

He ends by saying that he'd "frag" Americans, and all it would take is an order from his superiors.

I'm going to call that dick waving. You call it what you want.

[seabeyond]

219. we are talking posters on this thread, not all of du. you say the posters are cheering violence

so you seem to not have an issue speaking for all duers you disagree with. being one of the duers you spoke for, i say, you are incorrect and i am sure the majority would agree they are not cheering on violence. in fact, the opposite.

"taking back the govt" was never suggested thru violence and if we advocated violence against the govt, i am sure it would have been locked too. absolutely. what this soldier is talking about is defending the govt from a violent take over. that is not the same thing.

this soldier is saying, if there was a war on this continent, there would be death. and more than likely, those that died would not be the military. that is a reasonable statement. sorry collateral damage. bad stuff. so please think twice. and if the right were to become violent, you think it would not be all about the killing of innocence. look at oklahoma city bomber. how many bad guys were taken down in that attack?

he is saying, he will kill protecting america. how is that not a job description.

you say it is historonics on both sides. kennedys, martin luther king, kkk killings, oklahoma city bomber, abortion doctors.... those killing, OF INNOCENTS, is thru the escalation of rhetoric and hatred and is not coming from BOTH sides. it is coming from one side. fox news, a whole network to a whole party is about escalating the anger and mob mentality. it is not about both sides. you do not see both sides playing at the psychology of egging the people to murder. and it is wrong of you to make it so, especially as it is not a truth.

[sabrina 1]

258. Insert 'liberal' everywhere you wrote 'tea-bagger' and

this conversation, this thread, could have been copied and pasted from FreeRepublic. And I did see conversations over the past number of years on their boards exactly like this and was horrified.

[file83]

174. You advocate discouraging violence by encouraging threats of violence

against your fellow citizens by the U.S. Military?

Kent State much?

[seabeyond]

177. wrong. if we were to have a person threaten to rob a bank. and a policeman was to suggest his JOB

was to stop him or capture him once he robbed the bank. and in that persuasion to not rob bank the cop were to mention how the police would out number him, how they were better trained and how he would not get away with robbing a bank, ergo.... please do not rob the bank

that is not encouraging further breaking of the law. that is recognizing how our system is set up and is to work on keeping order.

[file83]

190. Funny you should say "rob a bank"...

...because that's exactly the problem the "Tea Party" people are talking about. Our nation is getting robbed and these citizens want to protect their nation and constitution by calling out those criminals.

And when the representatives of those people do nothing in response, the people begin to wonder why the "police" aren't stopping the robbery. The people get angry. The "police" say, "You better not try and stop the robbery, or else we will hurt you! Don't try and steal the money that is being stolen."

People are like, "WTF are you talking about!? We don't want to steal anything, turn around and look the bank is getting robbed!"

You come along and say, "yes, it's how our system is set up and is to work on keeping order."

Okay.... :eyes:

[seabeyond]

207. so... i guess you are advocating the people murdering for justice without repercussion

talk about rolling eyes....

ya you

you are the scary ones

[file83]

213. You guess wrong - it's what I'm defending against.

Touche.

Your ignorance is what scares me, not your support of a violent Marine.

[seabeyond]

222. wrong again. you say.... they have the right to be violent because govt/bankers steal from people

and military and i assume police should stand down and allow the people to revolt, in violence, at will

[file83]

228. If the military do the right thing during the restoration process

by not defending the criminals, then there will be no violence.

Your false assumption is that the people who want justice want only violence.

It's what this Marine falsely thinks as well, because that's what soldiers train for: violence.

[seabeyond]

229. this soldier stated, point blank, he will die fighting for your right to speak out what you oppose

saying exactly what you insist on. justice without violence. it is when VIOLENCE becomes a part of the equation he will step in.

so

where is your argument in that.

[newspeak]

215. actually after reading on another thread what some of them believe

they sound more like religious zealot corporate stooges. They must think that many corporations today are like those about fifty years ago--when we actually had some regulation. Some are global monsters now, but they still believe in deregulation. Some have these weird perceptions of libertarianism, thinkng, just like *, the the corporations can govern themselves--that from the goodness of a corporate heart, they won't harm us.

And, then there's that little thing called separation of church and state. Well, it seems that many believe that the founding fathers really believed that this country was to be governed by rules of God, instead of laws stemming from enlightenment. We are to be a beacon to the world-God's manifest destiny--to show how unreasonably nutty we can be

And, the government is not to help people who are poor, sick, elderly, children. Nah, apparently, those people need to beg for generosity from people that have a heart, ya know like the teabaggers.

[seabeyond]

223. who? this is such bullshit. nt

[newspeak]

230. I was responding to file83

and what he said the teabaggers were against.

[patrice]

243. Yes! The poor are to remain systemically poor, so the rich can be richer AND feel virtuous from

their own "charity" THUS justifying their richness.

Do NOT!! give the poor "a fishing pole" or the Army will come and protect Property . . . I mean, uh . . . "The Constitution".

[Greyhound]

169. I've been sitting here, literally gobsmacked at the utter lack of understanding

what this psychopath has written. Again, I think it all has to come back to the glorification of and lack of experience in, war.

He has clearly stated that even in the event of a coup, he and his buddies will be killing us to keep power in authority.

And these sheeple see nothing wrong with it.:wow:

[seabeyond]

181. wtf? so a coup is to be allowed ( i feel a coup is a ridiculous possibility), BUT

then, what your suggestion is, if there is a coup is for our military to what???? stand down and allow. how many of those performing the coup are allowed to murder civilians.

i do not get this post at all

you are stating the audacity of military to stop a coup.... the audacity.... and there is something wrong with people on du that would appreciate military stopping a coup. that they are sheep

totally gobsmacked... to point of chuckle.

cause of course

all this is jsut conversation and not gonna happen

[Greyhound]

257. You went to a great length to mis-read that. n/t

[xynthee]

189. Me too!

Deeply disturbing that this was written, but not as disturbing as the people on HERE cheering him on. :wtf:

[chrisa]

208. Yeah. This article does seem a bit ridiculous.

And a little troubling, given his eagerness to shoot other Americans. It was fine before he went into the whole, "We Will Crush You!" mantra. Force is not the answer.

As for a Civil War happening? Never. What would it accomplish?

[sabrina 1]

256. I was thinking the same thing. This adulation for violent rhetoric

about killing American, or any other kind of citizens, was disturbing when it was the right doing it under Bush, it's even more disturbing to see it here.

Sometimes I think I have made a wrong turn when I read some of what is written and rec'd on this board.

[patrice]

129. I recognize th e need for something called "National Defense", but I disagree deeply with a mindset

that perpetuates the "necessity" for itself by means of Blind Obedience to self-fulfilling prophecies.

There's a certain auto-narcotic high in OP, a self-renewing buzzzzz, which I wouldn't fear so much if it the individual had not surrendered his own power over it to what REALLY does work out to be indeterminant others, a dependence, not only on rewards provided by those immediately around him, but also by layers of systems governed by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

141. This is a threat...

intended to put fear into the liberal base. I have read this post over again, followed the link, then the links. Thought and re-thought. This is just pure right-wing propaganda!

I served in the Army. I served with a branch that was in charge of "Homeland" security. We did not call it "Homeland" at the time. We would NEVER EVEN THINK of firing on
citizens of the US. No matter who. no matter what, no matter how, we were designed to CAPTURE and DETAIN said people.

Revolution, violent or not, is a given right to the American people. When we see we need change, we should try to change.

I DO NOT CONDONE VIOLENT CHANGE. But if that be the course so be it.

*********

"But the SECOND you start committing acts of violence and vandalism, then you've usurped that Constitution. You in a way have assaulted it. And then you and I (I being every servicemember who has sworn to defend said Constitution) will have a MAJOR PROBLEM."

*********

Tell me how? Are we supposed to be a peaceful nation? One that never supports violence or war? Or only on our country? This is total BS.

Think! Remember your history. Think of the French freedom fighters, think of the resistance in Russia, Poland, etc. Do you think those "average citizens" stood a chance against the armies opposing them?
Did they quit? Did they stand down? NO! But they did not buy into the FEAR instilled upon them by their own.

I sincerely hope and pray, as much as an "freethinker" can pray, that we NEVER have to choose a violent revolution. But if that be the way, I am ready to fight for my freedom and country now, as I fought before.

[patrice]

182. That's pretty much the way I see it.

[skeptical cynic]

145. This could easily have been written by a soldier wearing

a red coat in 1775.

Threat noted and disregarded.

Americans don't need to resort to violence to bring the nation to its knees. All we have to do is stop producing and consuming, and sit down in the streets in numbers too large to arrest disrupting the status quo.

And the "Marine" who wrote the article fails to mention that current Marines are vastly outnumbered by former Marines, as are current soldiers and sailors.

Stripped of it's constitutional and patriotic camouflage, this article is nothing but a bullshit threat.

[BlooInBloo]

146. Great article, but it strongly highlights why the civilian control of the military must never EVER

be threatened.

[patrice]

183. What civilian control of the military? They OWN us.

[Ter]

149. One flaw

If states succeed, they will let them go this time. No way will American vs. American ever happen again in these times. Not worth it.

[Joey Liberal]

154. Fuck the Marines

They don't scare me one bit. They are the bullies for the GOP.

[Uncle Joe]

156. I was a Marine and I was never a bully for the GOP, so try again. n/t

[Joey Liberal]

157. Good for you

I salute you for service. Talk to the Marine who wrote letter.

[Uncle Joe]

158. What in that letter makes you think he's a bully for the GOP?

Might it also be, that he's defending the Obama Administration from the lunatics on the right; calling for overthrow or proclaiming the President's illegitimacy?

[Rex]

161. No he is not doing that because in his letter he says it doesn't

matter who said what or did what it is all fucking bullshit to him, all he cares about is his orders to kill American citizens - when it comes down to that moment. Right or left, he will be aiming at YOUR head or MY head and shooting like the well trained killing machine that he is. A magnificent murdering man, decked out with medals for all the death brought to foreign lands. What a man he is.





Sad. Pathetic. Wrong.

[Uncle Joe]

164. Did you miss the paragraph?

"For those of you calling for a civil war, I implore you to stop and think about what you're saying. Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance."

[Joey Liberal]

168. Hey Uncle Joe

I sincerely think the Marines should be disbanded if this is how they think.

[Joey Liberal]

165. Well put

That's how I interperted the letter. I respect our military (I'm a veteran), but that letter implied that he would take up arms against American citizens if ordered to do so. Sounds like a Nazi/Tea Bagger to me. It may be time to disband the Marines if they are going to threaten American citizens.

[Uncle Joe]

166. If they advocate or start a Civil War.

"For those of you calling for a civil war, I implore you to stop and think about what you're saying. Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance."

[Joey Liberal]

170. The only ones advocating civil war

Are the Limbaughs, Becks, Hannity's and the Tea Bagger morons. The Marine is sadly mistaken if he thinks the American citizens would go quietly into the night if the USMC were to turn on us.

[Uncle Joe]

179. Then by reading your own post, common sense should tell you he's speaking to them.

Furthermore when the American Citizens violently turn on one another, what do you call that?

"The only ones advocating civil war

Posted by Joey Liberal

Are the Limbaughs, Becks, Hannity's and the Tea Bagger morons. The Marine is sadly mistaken if he thinks the American citizens would go quietly into the night if the USMC were to turn on us."

[Joey Liberal]

286. Ask the Tea Baggers

In the meantime, the Jar Heads should quit talking about turning on the American public. The Marines have become the GOP SS and its time for the Corps to be disbanded.

[Uncle Joe]

292. The Marines just like the rest of the Armed Forces swear an oath to uphold and defend the

Constitution of the United States, the President; no matter which party is their Commander in Chief.

This Marine made no threat against the American Public, he even stated that he would put his life on the line to protect your freedom of speech and protest.

The only people that should take offense from his letter are those thinking of starting a "civil war," I just know you're not one of those people.

Your objection to the armed forces actually doing their job and defending the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, while clueless-ly labeling the "Marines as GOP SS" and thus making of job of for profit mercenary, lunatic groups intent on overthrowing the government all the easier belies the comments on your profile about "caring for the military."

[Joey Liberal]

163. That's not the way I read it

But I take your word for it.

[patrice]

185. He would do the same for WHOEVER orders him to do so. They have abdicated their own

moral authority as humans.

[Uncle Joe]

192. My interpretation of his letter is different, he's speaking directly to those people

advocating civil war and the violent overthrow of the government.

"Secondly, Regardless of your political ideology, you've earned the right as US Citizens to say your piece - no matter how wrong it may be. That is your right, and I will give my life to protect it."

He goes on to defend your right to peaceful protest with his life, by his own words, I could never see him raising his arms against Ghandi or MLK, that to me speaks of moral authority.

[patrice]

212. No interpretation required, so I'm not going to argue with you. He very clearly says that it

does not matter who he kills:

First and foremost, when it comes to the back and forth of who did what to whom and why - I don't give a @!$%#. It doesn't change the action. In life we're judged by our actions, nothing more, nothing less. One of the greatest things of the military is when it comes to an enemy, the politics behind the situation - don't matter in accomplishing that mission. For the military , life is simple in that regard.

Judged by actions? Well then, were there no INNOCENTS living in Falujah?

His "action" is killing, if he kills killers, that's one kind of judgement.

An Innocent person's "action" is not killing, to the extent that he enables, or actually participates in, something that kills or harms non-killers, that's another judgement.

And yes, I know that this last statement applies to me also, which is one of my basic objections to War. If they, ALL OF THEM, would just take their endo- & exo- chemical driven Blood Lust elsewhere and segregate it from the rest of us, including financially, they could do what-the-fuck-ever they want and let the rest of us live in peace. But no, we ARE REQUIRED to support it, mentally, physically, financially, socially, and in all other regards, OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES of resisting them, which, under some circumstances could be Death as OP so clearly states.

[Uncle Joe]

224. He's speaking about politics, not legality.

The President is the Commander in Chief, no matter which party.

I don't believe he's condoning the killing of innocents whether it be Falujah or any other war since the dawn of time.

As to blood-lust the Marine even states, he wishes his job wasn't necessary.

Personally I would love it if no nation on the planet had armed forces because there was no need.

[patrice]

227. It's just too Damned bad that this country respects, all to Hell, conscientious objection toAbortion

but not conscientious objection to War.

Don't you think there'd be a little less of this of this enthusiasm for killing if there were less money to pay for it?

And, BTW, in probably at least a significant minority of instances, it is the belief that there is a need that creates the need and if we could identify and end that auto-loop, the remaining ACTUAL needs could probably be handled in a manner MUCH more efficient and much less EVIL than War. But NO, we can't talk that way in this country!!! We're all supposed to pat these folks on the back and get as high as they do on Death and Destruction. And if you say otherwise, believe me I know FIRST hand, you WILL be made to suffer the consequences.

[Uncle Joe]

238. I agree, with your first sentence and the answer is yes to your question.

I also agree with the bolded part of your last paragraph.

"And, BTW, in probably at least a significant minority of instances, it is the belief that there is a need that creates the need and if we could identify and end that auto-loop, the remaining ACTUAL needs could probably be handled in a manner MUCH more efficient and much less EVIL than War. But NO, we can't talk that way in this country!!! We're all supposed to pat these folks on the back and get as high as they do on Death and Destruction. And if you say otherwise, believe me I know FIRST hand, you WILL be made to suffer the consequences."

The difference being I believe we can and must talk about evolving our way of thinking here in the U.S. and abroad.

I also don't believe they get high from "death and destruction" so much as the adrenalin rush from intense feelings of fear, hatred and revulsion.

These same feelings burned into their minds work to consume them, during and long after the war ends.

[chrisa]

209. Based on what evidence?

When have the Marines ever pushed pro-GOP politics?

[Geek_Girl]

186. I don't think it will ever come to civil war even in the south east

where tea baggers reign. I would say 30-40% or more of the population do not agree with them. I would think you would have to have a much larger percent of the population in agreement for them to go to war. And I would say about 98% of the tea baggers would bail on the idea of civil war if they were faced with that as an option. Of the 2% left as soon as they had to do any kind of physical activity like combat training on a regular basis they would just give up or die of heat exhaustion or a heart attack.

[zenprole]

199. The American SS

So, Sgt. Rock and Easy Company are game to slaughter some civvies and lay down the law? Of course they are! That's what they do around the world every day - smash brown people who step out of line, or who have stuff their paymasters covet, or Just Because (see also Panama 1989). And make brave noises and racist jokes while doing so.

Aside from open contempt for democracy, this soldier's claims of respect for orders or the Constitution are false. Given the fraud surrounding the ongoing invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the many layers of lies supporting them, any self-respecting servicemember would have exited the military by any means available, with the full support of the UCMJ: responses to illegal orders trump all else. But taking that sort of action requires a courage that's almost extinct in the American military.

But maybe the saddest part of this post is the "we will destroy you" attitude. Time and again the claims of superior force and determination are paraded by, as if promotion depended on it. Apart from the naked willingness to harm fellow citizens, overwhelming violence is exactly what gives backbone to any resistance - witness the sole superpower unable to extinguish relatively tiny opponents in the present day. And these tactics don't solve the underlying problems.

If the US military were serious about protecting the Constitution or citizenry, they'd have long ago run some ops against Wall Street or agribiz, or thrown their weight behind removing corporate personhood from our nation. Soldiers used to die for bits of ribbon handed out by dictators. Now they can die for charters drawn up by lawyers and claim the highest of purposes while doing so.

Take a bow, troop. You're now the American SS.

[patrice]

235. You Nailed It!~

[sabrina 1]

260. Perfectly stated, especially your last sentence.

He'll follow any order and won't care who's right or wrong. He and many like him go willingly to other people's countries and 'follow orders' without thinking, to kill innocent people on their own soil. It's astounding to see the support for this. I really do hpe not all Marines think this way.

A good soldier in my book is one who would refuse, as Sgt Kevin Benderman did, to follow illegal orders.

And, btw, the 'troops' article has been deleted from the site. I wonder why.

[johnlucas]

271. Someone understands reality around here

I hear posters saying that soldiers wouldn't turn on civilians based on Constitution.

Naïve as HELL.

ALL Laws...ALL Laws are only as good as they are observed (or forced to be observed).
It's just words on paper. Concepts spoken & written. Without allegiance or enforcement of that allegiance they mean nothing.

And let me tell you something...when chaos reigns, laws mean nothing.
I don't trust a soldier—full of weapon power, trained to obey command—NOT to do whatever if the situation calls for it.
Sure, there may be a few principled exceptions but people respond to power & authority.

Who pays their bills? Who feeds them? Who houses them? What are the consequences for biting the hand who feeds you?
If you don't have sufficient numbers or weapon power to offset a military, don't be surprised if you become a witting or unwitting target should the situation call for an attack on the citizenry.

The honest truth is that to the ones in power, most of us are useful idiots. We are only kept around to make stuff or serve stuff because the technology is not yet possible to fully replace us. This is why laws never really benefit us & always some entity in power. If we don't choose to associate ourselves with that entity then we belong to the proletariat, the commoners, the peons, the layfolk, the peasants, the everyday people, the regular people, the little people, the riff-raff, the unwashed masses or whatever pejorative catchphrase in flavor at the moment.

A human being's sense of "Us" vs. "Them" is strong, basically overpowering. Those who see most people of a land as "them" will treat "them" as "them". And that is always lesser in every respect. At the end of the day a human being is most concerned with just "Me" & at best those like "Me" (which would naturally be "Us" or "We")

They use this protection class (which come from "them") to make sure the separation stands. To make sure the massive numbers don't intrude on whatever plan "We" "Us" want to enact.

The "We" rather not do all the heavy lifting so reluctantly they use, they employ "Them" for all sorts of tasks even letting some of "Them" feel like "Us" by giving those power over the rest of "them". This takes the form of your manager, your boss, an administrator, a police force, and of course a military.

If "They" "Them" ever got annoyed with this social order & rebelled, then surely all written rules would be off the books to make way for the ultimate rule "Don't mess with Me" "Don't mess with Us". And the "We" will tell those special "Thems" to take care of the other "Thems" so that things will be made better for "Us". The horrors that would result would be unspeakable.

Understand how power works. Civilization & ordered society is an elaborate illusion. It doesn't take much to break this Matrix. And trust me you ain't got it like Neo.
John Lucas

[patrice]

276. THAT'S the way It IS. Have you ever read Pedagogy of the Oppressed by

Paolo Freire? He talks, as you do, about how the Oppressed internalize the Oppressor and forget what Freedom is, who they really are, what they really need, and how to function to meet their own needs.

His solution is an absolutely organic "grassroots" self-study, self-discovery process, a process only, a problem-solving process empty of content, because the content is to be acquired from the empirical lives of those (individuals in organic groups) engaged in the process. This is the means by which the people are to discover how, precisely, they are oppressed and what they can/will do about that.

[johnlucas]

288. Well then my man Paolo is on the money

I was doing this on my own since I was young. I always questioned what didn't make sense & furthermore questioned myself which most are frightened of doing.

Self-study. Why do I think this way? Why am I following this path? What is real? What is fake? Do I do this to please others or myself? Should pleasing be my focus at all? What SHOULD be the focus? What are the benefits of that focus-to-be? What are the costs of that focus-to-be? What tools do I need to get started? Where do I go to get these tools?

Stuff like that is how I ended up with posts like these.
So many people run on automatic. I try my best not to say anything mindlessly. When language is just routine & thoughtless to fill some gap or social ritual. Even the simplest things to say.

People walk by & say like most people "how are you today?" Instead of automatically replying back "I'm fine. How are you?" like a mindless parrot I actually take the time & think on the question. How AM I today really? And then when I answer I'm like "Hmmmm...a little tired but hopeful."

Most people hate that kind of response because it's not the automatic fill-in-the-gap pleasantry they've been conditioned to expect. They really are not interested in how I am today but it's expected of them to ask because that's how they were trained. They never took the time to think about how that training can actually make a society of unpleasant strangers. And how that somehow may make disgruntled employees who shoot up workplaces.

I see people wear brand name T-shirts like say Aeropostale & it'll have a year on it like 1977. When they walk by instead of the usual greeting I would point to their shirt & say "Hey that was a pretty good year. Star Wars AND Saturday Night Fever came out that year!" They are usually confused until I make obvious why I'm making that reference with repeated pointings to the T-shirt. THEN they get it & sometimes they laugh & sometimes they look at me strangely.

They don't even know why they are wearing that shirt. They don't even care what it says on it. It's mindless.

And I try especially not to be mindless about what I'm doing. I always have a reason for what I do even if it's not elaborate. "Why am I just sitting here in bed half-asleep?" "Because I'm a little tired & I want to relax. Because I don't want to be obligated to anybody right now. Maybe later I'll feel differently. Right now I'm just lazy & laziness is good sometimes." Might not be the best reason but at least it's a reason.

If I'm spending EVERY day in my bed half-asleep then I'd ask myself "Why don't I ever get out of this bed?" "Laziness. Maybe depression." "Why be depressed?" "Hmm good question." "What's depressing you and why?" "This or that ain't going right for me right now." "What power do you have over the situation?" "Not much." "But 'much' implies 'little' on the flipside of the coin right?" "Right." "So on the little you DO have power over, what are you doing about it." "Nothing." "Should that be so?" "No." "So what's your plan of action?" "Get out of this bed & do what I can with that little." "How little is that little do you guesstimate?" "Maybe 20%" "That's 1 out of 5 odds right?" "Yep. A longshot. But maybe the odds can go in my favor." "But you wouldn't even have that if you did nothing by staying in this bed all lazy would you?" "You're right. Laziness has its purpose but it's not for today."

John Lucas

[newspeak]

201. well, * basically used the Constitution as TP

It is the oath of all soldiers to protect and defend the Constitution--but for eight years more and more civil liberties were stripped. I really thought under * that he was waiting for an excuse to round up those who didn't agree with his neo-con agenda. Just look at the Patriot Act--the administration had the authority to determine which US citizens could be stripped of their citizenship with no legal protections . Illegal wiretapping--suspending habeas corpus--now how many of these teabaggers realize that their God, * did so much damage--oh wait, they still have their guns, that's the only thing that really counts!

I guess it was okay for bullies like Cheney or * to have such power, but oh noes, it's now the scary dark man. Even when Obama maintains some of *'s cronies, and passes a repuke health bill, and continues with *'s banking bailout, and looks like a corporatist, to me (another words, "New Democrat" equals republican)--the clueless will still think he's a socialist because that's who their hate spewing, ignorant idols told them, over and over again.

[spin]

203. We have no need of a revolution at this time ...

a new healthcare bill is not the end of the world.

Conservatives need to realize that elections have consequences. Bush the Junior and the Republicans in Congress deserted their basic principles. They spent money like it was paper monopoly cash and engaged in an unnecessary war in Iraq. They played the fiddle while the economy was in flames.

Under our system when one party loses the confidence of the majority of the voters, they get voted out.

Obviously the conservatives need to regain the trust of the American voter. Using fear tactics and fanning the flames by accusing Democrats of being socialists and communists is not the best way to accomplish this and may result in a tragedy which will backfire in their face.

Our system is working and it's working rather well. If the voters are pissed enough at the way Obama and the Democrats are running our country, they will go to the polls in 2010 and 2012 and make sure their voices are heard. Usually the midterm elections do result in a loss of seats for the party in power. I personally doubt that the loss will be as great as the Republicans are currently predicting.

In fact, the Republican's failure to work in a bipartisan effort to support healthcare and instead to portray Obama and the Democrats in Congress as socialists bent on ruining our country could well fail and cause a backlash. Time will tell.

Revolution is required when the system has totally failed and a totalitarian, dictatorial and totally corrupt government is in power and is oppressing its citizens with an iron heel.

While it is true that our military is competent enough to handle a conventional revolution there are many faults in the posted letter.

First, if a large majority of the country supported such a revolution, many in the military would also support it. They might desert and fight with the revolutionists. There is a possibility that the military would just take over the government.

Second, while our military could occupy the large urban areas and cities, they would find controlling the entire country extremely difficult. Energy and food and all the things we depend upon often come from distant places in our country. The highway system, the power grid and rail system could be easily disrupted.

Third, some states would secede from the Union. Even today some states are considering this.

Already, 9 states: Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan,
Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia have all introduced bills and resolutions declaring sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment. 12 others: Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are considering such measures. Of course, the citizens of each state would have to ratify the bill, just as they would have to vote to join the Union.
http://starmaker.today.com/2009/02/05/states-rights-10th-amendment-secessionist-movement/

While very unlikely to happen today, it could easily happen in the future, but only if the circumstances actually require such action.

Fourth, we have spent large quantities of money training combat soldiers for the best army in the world. Many of these well trained individuals are now retired but very patriotic and if they felt that the founding principles of this country were being totally ignored, many would take up arms to restore the Constitution. Since there are plenty of firearms in this country they could form a formidable underground resistance movement. There would be no requirement to fight head on with our military. When the tanks and helicopters arrived on the scene they would simply fade away with the support of the citizens in their areas.

Fifth, if the USSR could break apart with their entire well trained military, all their tanks and planes, all their bombs and nuclear weapons - the same thing could happen in the U.S.

But as I pointed out, such talk of revolution is foolish at this time. We have a long way to go before we reach the point where Thomas Jefferson's quote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” is appropriate or necessary.

[golddigger]

206. Sounds like one of those

Right-wing emails I get every once and a while.

So, is he saying he would shoot his father, mother, son or daughter if he had too?

[cherokeeprogressive]

214. If given the proper orders, yes. He'd have the blessing of a lot of DU'ers too. n/t

[patrice]

218. Don't forget his brother or sister and, by virtue of the pernicious tenacity of self-fulfilling

prophecies, his own grandchildren.

[newspeak]

221. didn't * suspend Posse Commitatus (sp)?

Actually, after Obama was elected, I thought it would have been a good idea for him to re-instate most of those generals that were forced out because they didn't go along with the administration. Instead, he has kept, to me, these * "yes men", and some have visions of religious nuttery--like Armageddon and converting the heathens. I think he should have cleaned house in the upper tiers of the FBI, CIA and military-especially after * cleaned house and installed "loyal" sycophants.

[Bonhomme Richard]

233. The spoken truth.

The ass clowns pushing for civil war think it would be like 1860. They would do better thinking about hiding in a cave afraid to come out to take a piss.

[datasuspect]

234. the iconic image of a helicopter evacuating the US embassy in Saigon come to mind

what a bunch of noxious authoritarian propaganda.

[DesertDiamond]

237. We WILL have an end to all wars. We will have peace and prosperity. Here's how...

War comes from the fundamental darkness inherent in all life, which shows up as the three poisons of greed, anger and foolishness. The antidote to this is to seek the enlightenment that is already inside of us and just needs to be brought out. This is like lighting a lamp in a dark cave... the light wins. The more we fight our own darkness and bring out our light, and help others to do the same, the closer we will get to world peace. When times get tough enough, people will start seeking to find the answer to how to accomplish this great feat. When this happens, we will finally see world peace become a reality.

[patrice]

241. 1+~ I don't know if we're EVER going to "see world peace" but this is what we MUST do anyway,because

there is one thing and one thing only at the end of the path OP is on: SPECIES SUICIDE.

. . . but then, maybe that's what some people WANT in the worst way.

[Kievan Rus]

239. Very well written -- and sobering

[RedCloud]

244. Good stuff. And they don't bluff!

[madmax]

245. Not posted on FreakRepublik

and never would be. The Marine would never be considered a Patriot in their minds. Even if they had a mind.

[Uncle Joe]

246. I agree. n/t

[47of74]

247. Even if he headed over to RimJob's site and posted it there...

It'd be gone within minutes. RimJob would see to it that the article was deleted right away.

[B Calm]

248. I emailed it to a freeper. He asked that I take his name off my e-mail list

because he can't deal with stupid. LOL

[seabeyond]

249. but but but, what happened to support the troops AND posters on this thread says our mentality is

freeper, ergo that freeper should have praised it... surely

wink

bah hahaha. i love it.

[B Calm]

261. I know this freeper and he like most of them have never worn the uniform.

I guess it was silly of me to think he would understand what the Sgt was saying!

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

252. At 9:15PM Pacific Coast time I get: This article was deleted by the author.

When I click on the link.

Wish I could have read it all...

[B Calm]

262. Probably was getting too

much publicity and death threats. Anyway here's the whole thing!

Written earlier on Newsvine, A Marine writes an opinion piece regarding those that want armed revolution in this country.

Link

By Sgt C USMC -

An article I wish I would never have to write - To those calling for a civil war, this Marine wants you to stop, and think...

It's been said that the military is always preparing for war. That is true. We prepare for combat every day. We ran 5 miles today to the rifle range and shot nearly 200 rounds a piece at targets and then ran back. However, we also pray for peace. I would love one day to be completely unnecessary. But alas, I am a realist, and I know that day will never come.

The headlines of the last week have reminded me more of glimpsing at the S2 Daily Briefing Sheets while in theater or the Al-Jazeera than the NY Times or the Washington Post. Think about that for a moment, let it sink in.

Before I get into the main premise of this article - I need to make two statements here.

First and foremost , when it comes to the back and forth of who did what to whom and why - I don't give a @!$%#. It doesn't change the action. In life we're judged by our actions, nothing more, nothing less. One of the greatest things of the military is when it comes to an enemy, the politics behind the situation - don't matter in accomplishing that mission. For the military , life is simple in that regard.

Secondly, Regardless of your political ideology, you've earned the right as US Citizens to say your piece - no matter how wrong it may be. That is your right, and I will give my life to protect it.

But this government of ours is a democracy. We vote for our representatives, and they vote in our interests. Sometimes, the votes don't go our way. That's life, better luck next time. Exhaust your legislative options, and then focus on gaining the required votes and/or seats to achieve your desired legislative vote next election time. That's the way things work.

But the SECOND you start committing acts of violence and vandalism, then you've usurped that Constitution. You in a way have assaulted it. And then you and I (I being every servicemember who has sworn to defend said Constitution) will have a MAJOR PROBLEM.

For those of you calling for a civil war, I implore you to stop and think about what you're saying. Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance.

Now with that vision in mind, stop by your local Marine Corps base, being they will be the first military units you'd face in an all out 'civil war' . Look at them for a moment, examine their 'work environment' . They're running the track, they're climbing ropes, they're grappelling with each other in mock hand-to-hand combat, and shooting targets while moving in raid lines on a daily basis. Nearly everyone on that base, down to our 'secretaries' has a combat award of one type or another, they've faced some of the most stressful situations on Earth where succumbing to the stress can get you killed, and they flourished.

Now ask yourselves and be honest - when is the last time you've run anything other than late to work, climbed anything other than a flight of stairs, grappelled with anything other than a paper jam, and shot off anything other than your mouth? When's the last time you were in any situation more stressful than a traffic jam?

Now I'm not blaming you for your career choice, not in the least. I can't think of a single job that's not useful in some way or another. I just want you to simply compare and contrast your work environment with ours and ask yourselves "Who is better suited to win this battle ?" We both know the answer here, and if you doubt that answer, look at the results from Fallujah in 2004. Over 1200 of them 'lost' and we 'lost only 28. That's a 'win-ratio' of almost 60-1, and they've been fighting their whole lives.

Put this in another scenario. You and your officemates think your local pro football team sucks , so you put together your own team of the best your company has and challenge them to a game. Even if your team might be good, they're professionals. This is their job. Your job is to answer phones and type on a keyboard. In short, they've forgotten more than you will ever know about football. The result, will be a slaughter for you, and a practice for them. But at least you'll get a chance to sit at home, ice your wounds and say 'whew I never should've done that!'

Not so with combat. The results of combat are far...FAR..more permanent. There are no second chances, no time for regrets, and no do-overs. This is not Call of Duty.

Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone.

I hope some of you heed my words and cool the rhetoric and focus on achieving your goals diplomatically instead of physically. It would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so.

[Odin2005]

253. The posters spitting on this marine is DISGUSTING!

Comparing the Teabaggers to the people killed at Kent State? Calling this patriot a SOCIOPATH? REALLY? Do you really hate the military THAT MUCH?

Jesus Christ Almighty... :banghead:

[conspirator]

270. Is it because his speech sound like an Arrogant Threat? He thinks he is a powerfull killing machine

but probably he is so brave because he never faced an opponent with the same level of hardware.
He sounds like a guy who would enjoy killing civilians in Iraq and Afganistan. And probably that's how he got his medals.
Also he is a bit dumb to think that people would make such a suicidal move as facing tanks armed with civilian guns.

[patrice]

273. This man will shoot ANY American he is ordered to. What's worse spitting or shooting?

[patrice]

277. On edit: This man will shoot ANY American he is ordered to by ANYONE who happens to be in the

role of issuing such orders, NO questions asked.

I'm shocked that you find that an admirable thing.

[ForAiur1]

263. So he likes following orders, Send this piece of s*** traitor to Iraq, I hope he gets blown up.

So he likes following orders, Send this piece of s*** traitor to Iraq, I hope he gets blown up.

[B Calm]

264. So I guess you freepers only support the troops that you agree with!

If you had worn the uniform, you'd know exactly what he is saying!

[johnnie]

265. Ha!

Nice first post.

[B Calm]

267. Can't help but notice that he's afraid to post anything else!

USS Yosemite AD19 1969-1971
USS Albany CG10 1971-1973

[johnnie]

268. Maybe his mom just got up

And he was afraid of getting caught being on the computer.

[B Calm]

269. I think mommy is changing his diaper!

USS Yosemite AD19 1969-71
USS Albany CG10 1971-73

[patrice]

274. No he needs to join the Human Race and stand for the moral integrity of the AMERICAN mind & heart

against his TRANS-NATIONAL pay-masters who seek to enslave us to THEIR economic choices.

[howard112211]

272. Brilliant. DU is cheering a guy who brags about shooting unarmed civilians.

[B Calm]

279. Who says they are unarmed?

[patrice]

280. When have warriors (recently) managed to kill only other warriors?

Not to mention the fact that if it were really only warrior vs. warrior, the rest of us would have to sacrifice our livelihood and the futures of our children to support their efforts.

[B Calm]

281. You shoot at who's shooting at you! Granted, accidents do happen. . .

[patrice]

282. I'm not sure that I will grant that it IS an accident when everyone KNOWS going into

whatever situation that INNOCENTS will pay either with their lives or with lost potentials.

Not since Hannibal (in some mountains I can't think the name of right now) with the Romans, has it been limited to Warrior vs. Warrior and even then you have to think about HOW it was that those men came to the employment that they engaged in there.

[j420norcal]

283. The author Sgt. C's retraction and clarification of the original article...

The original article has been retracted (deleted) by the author. There is now a rewrite in it's place.

By Sgt. C USMC

...This is intended to be a rewrite of the article that was written - because some people obviously DON'T get it.

The article I wrote yesterday was intended to be a call for peace, and a moment for pause. In all honesty, it was merely my venting after reading dozens of headlines regarding the type of violence in the US that I was more accustomed to seeing on the daily intel briefing sheets while in theater. I never expected the response I got, and I must admit while some of the comments that I received were some of the greatest thoughts and words I've ever seen - some were words I'd hope no human being would never utter to another. My family and myself were threatened, if for no other reason than because my opinions differed from someone else's. Obviously, the intent of my message was convoluted and lost. This is an attempt to correct it...

(snip)

Link to rewritten Newsvine.com article

[Joey Liberal]

287. Dear Sgt C

I consider you to be a Benedict Arnold with a crew cut. If your way of thinking truly represents the values of OUR Marine Corps, then its time to "case the colors" and disband the USMC. I was once a Sergeant in the Army and we NEVER considered turning our guns on the very people that we were sworn to defend - the American citizens. Sadly, the USMC has become a modern day SS for GOP-TV (Faux News) and the increasingly fanatical republican party. I used to admire and respect the USMC. Now I have no respect for them, and here's the most important thing for you, Sgt. C and your fellow Marines to remember - there is no fear of you. You can take your Full Metal Jacket attitude and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, because you are not worthy of our fear or our respect. Semper Fi that, dude.

[pasto76]

289. no, you swore an oath to defend against enemies foriegn AND domestic.

these clown in Michigan they just arrested are the folks he is talking about.

[madeline_con]

284. This article was deleted by the author. n/t

[Scurrilous]

285. Kick

:kick:

[Name removed]

290. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[B Calm]

293. Have you noticed how freepers only support soldiers they agree with?