Should Pope Benedict resign?

[IndianaGreen]

Poll question: Should Pope Benedict resign?

Vatican goes into battle for Benedict as sexual abuse crisis deepens

Spokesman says Pope knew nothing about reassigning paedophile priest

By Michael Day in Milan

In Pope Benedict's native Germany, an online editorial by Der Spiegel newspaper called on the pontiff to quit. "In 1996, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which he then led, decided not to punish the paedophile priest Father Lawrence Murphy. With his authority eroded, why does he even remain in office?" it said.

Under Church regulations it is possible for a pope to step down without asking for permission. But it is virtually unheard of – the last papal resignation, that of Pope Celestine V, came 700 years ago. The Vatican dismissed any suggestion that Benedict would resign.

In Britain, the Archbishop of Westminster, Vincent Nichols, said that as pope, Benedict had introduced changes into Church law to protect children. And, with Catholic votes in mind ahead of this weekend's regional elections, senior Italian politicians stepped in yesterday to defend Benedict.

The Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said in a statement: "It's an attempt at muck-raking at all costs that's obscuring the truth and that forgets the courage with which he has confronted this dramatic and delicate problem."

However, the Corriere della Sera newspaper, in an editorial, warned: "The worst choice for (the Church) would be to scream about international conspiracies by secular society."

But there was a growing consensus among Italian commentators yesterday that the daily tide of allegations meant it was not yet possible to say how serious the final damage would be to the Church and the Pope.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatican-goes-into-battle-for-benedict-as-sexual-abuse-crisis-deepens-1928742.html

The evidence is overwhelming that then Cardinal Ratzinger played a key role in suppressing public disclosure of sex abuse among the clergy and that, like former Boston Cardinal Bernard Law, took extraordinary steps to protect pedophile priests.

The question for DUers is: should Pope Benedict resign?

[DainBramaged]

1. They try to control the wombs of women and diddle their children, what godless creatures they are

[Duer 157099]

2. See this is what happens when a religion designates a human infallible

Isn't that the real problem with him resigning, that he would essentially be admitting that he made mistakes?

Or is it only in the pope's interpretation of god's law that he's supposedly infallible?

[Possumpoint]

13. In the Church's View

he became infallible when crowned Pope. He was just a fallible human being in a Cardinal's robes prior to that.

What a cess poll the church has allowed itself to become by trying to hide all its indiscretions.

[IndianaGreen]

14. It is a patriarchal hierarchy like the Cosa Nostra was

The code of silence of the old Mafia is alive and well in the Vatican.

[anigbrowl]

28. Actually not so (technical explanation)

In church law, the pope is just a regular guy - that is he has no unique spiritual powers. Supposedly it's all the same to god whether a Mass is said by the pope or some humble priest with a congregation of 3 people. The pope can sin like anyone else and goes to confession regularly like any other catholic.

the only time his word is infallible is when he speaks 'ex cathedra', at which time he is supposed to communicating a divine revelation of some kind. This idea was formalized in the 19th century, not least because up to that point nobody was entirely sure whether the pope was infallible at any given time, and numerous popes throughout history had abused this uncertainty to suit their political or even (occasionally) military goals.

This 'ex cathedra' speech takes place very rarely, maybe once every decade or so on average. Some popes never do it all. It usually only happens when there's some ongoing controversy inside the church no agreement can be worked out after years of debate. I can't think of any examples offhand...maybe Pius XII talking about contraception at Vatican II? I'm too lazy to go digging through books looking it up right now.

Anyhow he's been just as fallible the entire time since he became pope as he way beforehand, since he hasn't spoken ex cathedra about anything so far, and if he has any brains or integrity he never will, but will abdicate instead.

There's a good explanation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility if you like obscure history.

[sabrina 1]

35. Only on 'matters of doctrine'

I never heard of anyone claiming the pope is infallible as a human being. Shows how distorted things can be and how little you can trust anything you read or hear unless it can be verified.

[Duer 157099]

3. Is the pope catholic?

No, I'm asking.

[IndianaGreen]

4. The victims were all Catholic

The Vatican was trying to protect its own at the expense of the faithful.

[Walk away]

12. Oh right, they would be the good Germans then.

There are millions of catholics. What is there problem? Why don't they stop sending money to these monsters and make them step down.

[Walk away]

19. Blaming all of this on a couple of perverts is so facile.

Where are the catholic people....in fact where have they been for years as each new wave of abuse is uncovered? They just keep sending their children to these schools and sending donations to these monsters.

[OHdem10]

5. On PBS tonight, the guest explained--Something seismic would

have to occur for the Pope to step down.

[anigbrowl]

29. I'd say this qualifies...

Right now the Catholic church is going through probably the worst crisis in a century, if not longer. Mounting evidence that the pope broke the law and encouraged others to do so is pretty bad. OK. Those are earthly laws and if you're religious then you might argue that he only has to worry about god's law, but the number of people who think child abuse is all part of God's plan very small indeed.

[tularetom]

6. Popes never resign - they just die under mysterious circumstances

That's why they keep appointing these old guys, when they croak nobody asks a lot of embarrassing questions.

Then everything gets blamed on the dead pope, and things go back to normal.

Except I don't think that'll work this time. The stench of this whole mess is too bad to disguise by simply killing the pope.

It's gonna need real reform and I don't think they are capable of that.

[HereSince1628]

7. Especially if they are a "Borja" n/t

[Pab Sungenis]

11. I'm not so sure.

The last time a Pope got too much publicity for what they thought were the wrong reasons, he died mysteriously within a month. Of course then, the publicity was because he was going to move the Church into the 20th Century instead of the 15th.

If Benedict should be "called home" next month or even next year, expect another round of stories to be "revealed" about how all the blame can be laid at his feet, and his new successor coming out for reforms in the way priests are assigned and these situations dealt with.

[rug]

18. At least four Popes resigned.

[DFLforever]

8. He should. But he won't.

And there is no one to make him resign, although his teaching and moral authority is shot.

What do they call a lame-duck pope?

[Xipe Totec]

9. Claudius

Cladus = lame.

[DFLforever]

15. LOL!

That's funny.:9

[unkachuck]

10. yes....

....the zinger of rats from Munich (aka, the Nazi Pope) should depart....let someone with less tolerance for child molesters lead the Catholic church....sooner, the better....

[Ernesto]

16. He should take a job as a homeless person & drop out of site

THROW him under the buss.

[ruggerson]

17. Pope's resign? I thought you just threw water on them and watched them dissolve

n/t

[IndianaGreen]

20. Benedict's record on abuse: all talk and no action (National Catholic Recorder)

Benedict's record on abuse: all talk and no action

Mar. 19, 2010
By David Clohessy

Well, let's look clearly at Benedict's track record, as pope, on clergy sex crimes and cover ups. He has done three things.

Once, after substantially watering down an already vague and weak proposal, he belatedly and begrudgingly approved the U.S. bishops' 2002 child sex abuse policy.

Twice, in carefully choreographed circumstances, he sat in the same room with and talked with a few hand-picked victims.

And twice, he "disciplined" credibly accused child molesting clerics (one of whom, after multiple allegations and years of delay, was "invited" to live a life of prayer while the Vatican made only the most oblique reference to his actual crimes).

That's it. That's all. Everything else is just talk.

Well, words are powerful, aren't they? Of course, but words are what we use when we're powerless. And with pedophile priest and complicit bishops, the pope is anything but powerless.

When it comes to world peace, hunger, inequality, poverty, AIDS, natural disasters, the pope talks and writes, as he should. He has little, if any, influence over these catastrophes.

But with clergy sex crimes and cover ups, he sits atop a clear, ancient, rigid, hierarchical structure. He's the king, and has nearly limitless power.

But in the greatest crisis the church has faced in modern times, Benedict acts not like a mighty monarch, but like a lowly serf.

http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/benedicts-record-abuse-all-talk-and-no-action

[MilesColtrane]

21. If he steps down, would he get to keep his ruby slippers?

[IndianaGreen]

31. Those slippers are handmade by Prada

The German Pope has an expensive taste. Were he not in the Vatican, he could pass for one of our drag queens.

[Raschel]

39. Eek, What a joke. Do they wear those dresses for abuse convenience?

[JDPriestly]

22. I don't know enough about this, and I don't think anyone knows all the facts yet.

[IndianaGreen]

32. There is documentary evidence, not to mention the victims' account

What more do we need?

[JDPriestly]

33. I don't know what the Pope did or did not do.

[IndianaGreen]

42. Why don't you find out? Here is what Der Spiegel is saying in a blistering editorial

The Fallibility of the Infallible Pope

By Peter Wensierski

Allegations that Pope Benedict XVI may have had detailed knowledge about instances of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church continue to mount. In 1996, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which he then led, decided not to punish the pedophile priest Father Lawrence Murphy. With his authority eroded, why does he even remain in office?

<snip>

Since 1982, Ratzinger had been responsible for that part of the Vatican which deals with cases of sexual abuse. Who, other than he, was responsible for the Church's path?

You can rename Ratzinger "Benedict," SPIEGEL wrote in the face of the euphoria over the German pope that spread here after his election to the papacy in 2004, but you can't take Ratzinger out of the pope. Since then, as pope, he has done more damage to his church than good. He has strained relations with Jews several times, he played with fire in relations between Christians and Muslims with his Regensburg address, he angered the indigenous people during his Latin America trip, he has alienated Protestants and he has shown himself to be conciliatory to Holocaust deniers.

Even loyal Catholics have been stunned by the course of action he has taken. And now, on top of all that -- one area where he has been consistent over the decades has been in his negligence in dealing with pedophiles within his own institution.

In Ireland or America, bishops have had trouble stepping down -- even in cases in which their cover-up had been uncloaked. And in Germany, not a single bishop has taken the fall for the serious mistakes made by the Catholic Church there.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,685712,00.html

Cardinal Ratzinger was told of pedophile priest transfer (Catholic News)

Published: March 26, 2010

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as archbishop in Munich, was copied on a memo that informed him that a priest, whom he had approved sending to therapy in 1980 to overcome pedophilia, would be returned to pastoral work within days of beginning treatment.

The priest was later convicted of molesting boys in another parish, the New York Times reports.

An initial statement

by the Archdiocese of Munich and Freising placed full responsibility for the decision to allow the priest to resume his duties on Cardinal Ratzinger's deputy, Monsignor Gerhard Gruber.

But the memo, whose existence was confirmed by two church officials, shows that the future pope not only led a meeting on Jan. 15, 1980, approving the transfer of the priest, but was also kept informed about the priest's reassignment.

What part he played in the decision making, and how much interest he showed in the case of the troubled priest, who had molested multiple boys in his previous job, remains unclear, the paper says.

But the personnel chief who handled the matter from the beginning, Fr Friedrich Fahr, "always remained personally, exceptionally connected" to Cardinal Ratzinger, the church said.

http://www.cathnewsusa.com/article.aspx?aeid=20295

The Pope's own brother admitted to physically abusing children in his care:

Pope’s brother Georg Ratzinger: I slapped choir pupils

Wednesday, 10 March 2010

The brother of Pope Benedict has admitted he slapped pupils in the face at a German school where he led the choir, but said he had been unaware of the brutality of the discipline there.

Rev Georg Ratzinger (86) made the comments to a German paper yesterday following charges of sexual and physical abuse in Catholic schools in the Pope's native Bavaria.

“Pupils told me on concert trips about what went on. But it didn't dawn on me from their stories that I should do something. I was not aware of the extent of these brutal methods,” he told the Passauer Neue Presse.

“If I had known about the excess of force... I would have said something. I ask the victims for forgiveness.”

Rev Ratzinger led the “Domspatzen” (Cathedral Sparrows), the official choir for the Regensburg diocese, from 1964 to 1994. “At the start, I also slapped people in the face, but I always had a bad conscience,” he said.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-brother-georg-ratzinger-i-slapped-choir-pupils-14713042.html#ixzz0jOjhr6Wv

[JDPriestly]

48. Thanks. I did not realize that Ratzinger was in charge of the Vatican's

policy on dealing with pedofiles in the priesthood. I'm still confused on this because I had heard that someone else dealt with that -- that some American was appointed to do it who was very questionable also.

[JI7]

23. i'm an atheist

[kas125]

24. Yes, he should resign. And then he should spend the rest

of his miserable life in prison. Those who perpetrated the abuse and those that covered up are criminals, period. I've said for many years that anyone who still supports the institution by attending their services or donating money may as well wear a sign on their forehead that says, "I support child rape and abuse."

[Touchdown]

25. I say no. He's the perfect man for the job. Nobody can destroy the church as well as he can.

All hail the the Pope: Nero the first.

[FreeState]

26. Not only yes, but so should every leader that enables such behavior n/t

[Raschel]

38. There was a brave man in Wisconsin who tried to stop abuse by a priest.

The priest killed him than hung himself.

[Forkboy]

27. They all should.

:)

[IndianaGreen]

30. Kick for the morning shift

:kick:

[devilgrrl]

34. He should be thrown behind bars for the rest of time.

Pope L. Ron Benedict

[Raschel]

37. Yes. Why aren't they subject to criminal charges?

[AngryOldDem]

36. Pointless poll -- ain't gonna happen, no matter how appropriate or appealing the idea is.

Popes don't resign. Won't matter how bad this gets -- Benny has the job until God fires him (Church's take, not mine).

I'm hoping that maybe now this scandal will get the coverage it truly deserves, and that the kid-gloves, hands-off policy is lifted on these assholes and that a lot of them find themselves in prison. I'm also hoping that this will galvanize the laity to stand up to Rome and let Rome know they aren't going to take the shit anymore.

The Church WILL be brought into the 21st century one way or another. (But it may take another 21 centuries for that to happen, unfortunately.)

[Silent3]

40. Can't they just quietly shuffle him off to a different Vatican? n/t

[SidDithers]

41. Would it matter?...

Is an one particular pope better than any other pope?

They're still the leader of a corrupt, criminal organization.

Sid

[IndianaGreen]

44. The underlying issue is that the Church protects child abusers

and that those in leadership position must be held accountable to the civil authorities.

[TransitJohn]

43. Other.

People should stop believing the delusion, and these charlatans would fade away into nothing.

[Mz Pip]

45. Yes, and his predecessor

should never ever be granted "Sainthood."

[Cleita]

46. No because, until the Church recognizes that it needs to come into

the twenty-first century with some real modernization and reforms, abuses will continue no matter who is Pope. So many of the practices that people think are etched in granite aren't and can be change with the stroke of a pen. I say priests should be able to be married, be openly gay and that the priesthood be open to women. Nowhere in the New Testament does it say otherwise. The first Pope, St. Peter, was a married man. Women officiated at mass in the early church, which was a meal similar to the last supper, and probably had the status of priests. This would help weed out the pedophiles who might otherwise be attracted to the religious life. Marriage and divorce were civic matters not religious ones in the early church.

[Ter]

47. The real question is can a Pope be impeached?

N/T.

[Initech]

49. Nazi popes fuck off.

[myrna minx]

53. Did Jello Biafra update his song for a new millennium?

:D

[rcrush]

50. That has about as much chance of happening as our government bring George W Bush to trial.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. I'm one of the 'Other' votes

I'm not a Roman Catholic - so my hands are off their religion's leadership.

[Maru Kitteh]

52. Yes. Pope Pedo should resign.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. That depends on whether he can be an effective Pope from inside a cell.

Seriously, I don't understand why conspiracy to help serial child abusers escape law enforcement isn't against some law, somewhere.