I Attended a Ron Paul Speech Tonight (!)

[LAGC]

My conservative-leaning younger brother offered to pay my $10 entrance fee, and I had nothing better to do on a Saturday night so I took him up on it, just out of curiosity more than anything else.

The place was packed, 1500 people of all ages, tables in the front handing out libertarian literature -- some for free, some for a small fee. Book signings of "Revolution" and "End the Fed" by Ron Paul was to commence after the speech.

It started out pretty dreadful, him railing against the health care bill mainly on the grounds of being against the mandate to have coverage and because it was a "redistribution of wealth" scheme. He started going off against welfare, and Medicare and Medicaid and all the "socialized medicine" over the years. I wasn't sure if I was going to last through it all...

Then came the good part. He suddenly switched gears and started railing against the bogus wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, drawing the loudest applause of the night, including someone who stood up and yelled "Unjust wars are murder!" He went on to chastise Republicans for meddling in personal affairs, how if people do things that harm no one else, or put things in their own bodies, politicians have no right to outlaw it just because they disagree.

During the question and answer session at the end, someone wrote on one of the cards "Why do you run as a Republican?" as opposed to an independent, presumably. Ron Paul avoided this question, only saying that both parties have faults. I'm sure a good part of the reason has to do with his anti-choice position on abortion, which is strange, considering he championed personal choice and individual freedom just minutes earlier.

He wrapped up by pointing out that he had his best showing of any state Republican primaries here in Idaho where he pulled 24% of the vote.

I left there thinking we could definitely do much worse than Ron Paul, if a good majority of conservatives saw the world the way he does, we'd have a much better dialog and consensus on important issues in Washington. We could end these stupid wars and keep the government out of our bedrooms and personal affairs, while we debate the other issues that we disagree on.

I hope we see more Republicans attracted to his ideas in future election cycles.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

33. Extremely well put. You speak well for me, too. nt

[FormerDittoHead]

36. Thank you. His followers read into him what they want to, but he's a tool.

I was honestly surprised to see he was anti-Abortion rights, but it doesn't surprise me.

That he is/was right about the wars and bailouts doesn't score any points with me.

He and his followers live in this make-believe Ayn Rand world where everything is ultimately fair, there is no such thing as luck, everything is now as it SHOULD be and "the market" is a magical kingdom where everyone is happy, not just the upper .3%.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

41. OK, seriously, how the fuck did my post here get deleted.

I said nothing negative against the author of the post. All I did was call Ron Paul an asshole.

[FormerDittoHead]

50. That's strange. You certainly spoke for me. n/t

[Skinner]

54. You used the word "retarded" as a slur.

That's why.

[lame54]

61. political correctness wins again

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

65. It's a legitimate complaint.

I've got no problems with the deletion now that I understand why it was done.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. Oops. Sorry.

Shall not make that mistake again. Thanks for the clarification.

[inna]

68. does not surprise me at all -

being an asshole, as always?

[FrenchieCat]

2. Doesn't he want to abolish the IRS?

[mrcheerful]

4. As well as every social safety net still left in place after 30+ years of con destroying safety nets

Paul is a free trade nit wit who thinks all of the country will benefit by unrestricted trade and those that don't just aren't strong enough to survive.

[Ter]

9. Don't we all?

We'd be better off without it.

[aquart]

17. No, I'd like to make it much more efficient.

With zero delay on the collection of corporate taxes.

[Johonny]

32. and a return to the progressive tax system we had before Reagan

and the cutting of the top bracket and the rise of regressive payroll taxes...

[midnight]

57. Bush said the rich know how not to pay taxes. So getting rid of the IRS would

help the poor and work class.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. How so?

[heppcatt]

3. My question would have been..........

Exactly which countries have ever successfully used the anarchist Utopian ideas of libertarianism?

[left coaster]

5. "and keep the government out of our bedrooms and personal affairs,"

Sorry, but I consider my uterus to be my personal affair!


Ron Paul is a massive fail for his anti-choice stance, and so many others..

[Ter]

10. He's more anti-Roe vs. Wade than anti-choice

He opposes any law banning abortion federally.

[beam me up scottie]

12. My uterus is still my personal affair

no matter where it lives.

Anti-Roe-vs-Wade IS anti-choice for all of the poor women who can't afford to travel out of state to get an abortion.

And for the people who would be prosecuted for helping them.





edit for speeling

[msongs]

6. ok u went now go out n campaign for your local democrat progressive nt

[Double T]

7. Ron Paul has a lot of good ideas and positions. Like most politicians,..........

I agree with a lot and adamantly oppose some of his others views. Abolishing government agencies is a great idea; simplifying 'the systems' is doable and would save hundreds of billions of dollars, funds that could go toward health care.

[jobycom]

8. I don't like him, or most of his ideas, but I'm glad there's a conservative

out there complaining about the wars. It works to weaken their support, and works to weaken overall support for more wars. That's the only credit I'll give him.

I used to live in his district, and still live pretty close to it. He's a liar, and a very mean man. For decades a newsletter ran with his name on it, and it included some of the most racist stuff I've ever read (and I have always lived in the South, so I've read a lot). Paul never tried to stop it, even though it had his name on it, and even though most of the stuff implied it was written by Paul himself. Later it became an issue, and Paul claimed it was an editor he had hired, and he himself had not proofed everything, so he didn't know the stuff was being printed. That was a lie, because people had written him a ton of letters over the years about it. When that lie wasn't good enough, he later changed to "I don't know who wrote it, I never agreed with it. I'm the victim here." Despite the fact that this newsletter ran for decades with his name on it, and clearly printed in his home town of Lake Jackson--which isn't a big town.

He wrote the stuff, or at least approved of it. In addition, his campaign ads in the 90s were just mean. He ran against one guy named Loy Sneary, and the whole campaign were jokes about his name. "I'm leary of Loy Sneary" was one, but the most telling was the commercial with an older white Texan-sounding woman intoning at the end "What kind of name is Sneary, anyway?" In other words, as every Texan understood, Paul was asking "What's the ethnic background of Sneary?"

He's a piece of shit. But at least he's undermining the Republicans in their love of war.

[Ardent15]

11. Ron Paul is a nut

He's really not worth paying attention to.

[LLStarks]

13. Ron Paul is a mixed bag. Some good ideas. Some bad ideas. nt

[beam me up scottie]

14. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

Ron Paul scares the hell out of me.

[blondeatlast]

35. +1. nt

[pepperbear]

15. One more time for the cheap seats:

He wants to privatize EVERYTHING.

[Maru Kitteh]

16. Ron Paul is a loon.

[The Midway Rebel]

18. He sucks in a lot of folks that would be lefties here in the Midwest.

Well intentioned hippies, bikers, full sleeve tattooed, dope smokers, some of my rockabilly pals and even some minorities will poll and campaign for that guy in these parts.

It is a lot of work to educate them to the follies of the Libertarian Party.

[beam me up scottie]

20. Yes, thank you!

He sucks in gun rights supporters and atheists too.

Someone is finally speaking their language and they're not willing to look closer.

[freedommachine]

21. Please, do tell

Please educate me in the follies of the Libertarian Party

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freedommachine]

27. I am not a Ron Paul supporter.

Why do you assume to know me or what my politics are. I just asked a question, and it was answered for me.

[The Midway Rebel]

25. Sign up just for this?

I take issue with items 1.6, 2.0, 2.9, 2.10 and 3.6 in their platform. (easily found with Goggle)

Although I may not always agree with the cops, the EPA, FDA, FDIC, SSA, IRS, tenants of the Pure Food & Drug Act, National Parks etc. I tend to think government is generally a good thing.

etd: extra word

[freedommachine]

26. I don't think that government is bad,

I just wanted to know what aspects of libertarianism you took issue with. I'm not here to offend. And I am not a Ron Paul supporter.

Thank you for your answer

[Warpy]

19. Ron Paul is a simple greedhead and libertarian dreamer

who wants women back as reproductive slaves and no interference of government in business, including making sure the drugs he prescribes his patients are safe.

He's right only once a day when he talks about getting us out of Stupid's wars.

[Tarheel_Dem]

22. That you would even post this crap says all I need to know about you.

As far as I know, this is not Libertarian Underground, and this shit should have been locked out of the gate. Paul's supporters are a tricky bunch, we found that out during the primaries. But, nice try.

[anigbrowl]

44. He's reporting it, not promoting it

I found it interesting, though not especially surprising since I'm already familiar with the guy's views; the most interesting part was the insight into the various reactions of the audience.

your outrage and personal insults seem rather misplaced.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. Never had a problem with you, and hope that remains the case. But,

I stand by my original assessment.

[anigbrowl]

63. I guess we'll agree to disagree then

Nothing in the OP read to me like a sales pitch. Other people have posted reports of things like going to tea party meetings and so on and I find those informative in the same way.

[upi402]

24. Libertarians are bananas! We could do worse... ie; Dick Cheney n/t

[cali]

28. he's a nut with a truckload of ugly ideas.

that some of his ideas aren't heinous doesn't ameliorate the ones that are.

[mmonk]

29. While I agree with Paul on the empire wars and to some extent, the fed,

we do not need any libertarian ideas in practice right now when so many people are hurting and need government help. It may sound like what he says makes sense, but it does not. Abandonment of responsibility of a government to its people's welfare in times of economic crisis is not a plan.

[MilesColtrane]

30. Libertarians = Republicans who like to get high

[Jennicut]

31. Conservative libertarianism is not much better then neo con conservatism

except for being against the wars. Don't get sucked in.

[JackRiddler]

34. Sorry to see all the reflexive abuse heaped on you for your report...

You shouldn't be attacked like this for a simple report of what you saw. Ron Paul says some things that are really good: about war, drugs, and to an extent banking, though his "solution" would bring back the even worse system of the 19th century. His positions on war and drugs would be radical improvements on what we have today, and obviously it would be spectacular if the Republicans came around to those ideas. So you agree with that, and disagree with the rest, as you write. No shame and no cause for all the rage you're getting.

[LWolf]

37. +1

[Ikonoklast]

38. Then you are easily swayed by a bullshit artist.

Fuck Ron Paul and Fuck All Libertarian Assholes.

They are enemies of Democracy.

[Lasher]

39. Were any of his Stormfront followers there?

Did he say anything about his earmarks for his home district?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. He's too socially conservative for me. Not to mention his subtle racism re: civil rights.

No thanks.

[SolidGold]

42. I'm cool on a Ron Paul America

Ron Paul is maybe 80/20 for me. 80 Crazy bullshit and 20 percent decent policy ideas.

[Molchmeister]

45. I supported Ron Paul....

He's more a constitutionalist.... and as far as abortion rights go I think he says the federal government needs to keep their nose out of it.

[BurtWorm]

58. Constitutionalism and Libertarianism don't mix very well.

You're one or the other, not both. Libertarianism is practically a religion, and constitutionalism is heretical to it.

[thelordofhell]

43. Libertarianism is a bunch of Ayn Randian bullshit........

and Ron Paul is the worst hypocrite of them all. Rallying against government interference while being in the system. Hey Ron-boy, if you're such an anti-government guy......GET OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT!!

:rant:

[saltpoint]

47. I think he's a crazy ass with significant racist overtones.

I'd like to see his influence, such as it is, wane. And the sooner the better.

The white supremacist group, Stormfront, endorsed Paul for president.

Those interested might want to have a look at this KOS posting:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/15/124912/740

[Hannah Bell]

48. he's great, if you like stealth fascists.

"Paul has the most right-wing voting record of any member of Congress since 1937"

http://voteview.com/Is_John_Kerry_A_Liberal.htm

[saltpoint]

49. More background and context on Paul here, from MOTHER JONES:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2007/12/apostles-ron-paul

[Emit]

53. Love that Venn of Paul: "libertarian thought overlaps with segments of both left and right"

at link: The Venn of Paul: As befits a movement with mainstream aspirations, libertarians have taken a big-tent approach to ideological purity. A pro-life, anti-immigration conservative like Ron Paul is welcome, as is a free-love prophet like the late Robert A. Heinlein—and, of course, libertarian thought overlaps with segments of both left and right.
—J.H.

[saltpoint]

55. HI, Emit. Yes. What ya wind up with Paul's stew is a lot of leftovers

that have been in the fridge since the Civil War and a slapdash mix of "neo-Libertarian" nonsense, with one or two anti-war noodles.

Not that appetizing.

[Emit]

59. lol! Yup, that about sums it up.

Pithy description of Ron Paul(ers). :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. You can't think of anything better to do than go hear Ron Paul?

I'd rather pull a tooth out with no anesthesia.

And if you gave these wingnuts your email address, be prepared for an onslaught of emails and viruses.

[w8liftinglady]

56. I remember Ron Paul supporters at one of our anti-war protests

The Republican straw poll in Ft Worth.Say what you want-it takes balls in Texas for a conservative group to join a bunch of liberals to protest very vocally along with the likes of Cindy Sheehan.I may disagree with them on everything else,but they are firm in their convictions.

[lame54]

60. Hid ideas? - He wants people to NOT participate in the census

[Javaman]

62. So jackass self loving ron paul spouts off more lunacy...

so he's against the war: a good dem is too. so he's for legalizing pot: a good dem is too.

but then he goes off the rails about woman's rights, IRS, "socialism", etc.

A good dem is pro-choice, pro-women's rights, a good dem understands the concept of taxes in order to maintain our infrastructure and as far as socialism is concerned, whatever the libertarians believe, unless they don't want any emergency services, the US military, public parks, etc, they are morons. A good Dem wants emergency services, a military, public parks, etc.

So why listen to that halfwit when a good Dem has all of these covered?

Sounds like nothing more than fishing for excuses to blame the Dems for something they aren't.

:shrug:

Support Progressive Dems and you get all things that make sense in one package.

[onethatcares]

66. 24% of the Idaho vote.

can't be a large number.

[Green_Lantern]

67. Libertarians are still conservative...

They want to totally deregulate the economy and let the market run its course. Imagine what insurance company would do WITHOUT regulation. We'd need legalized drugs just to forget our screwed up economy.

[Stevenmarc]

69. You might want to look up bamboozled in the dictionary, and reflect on it

[SocialistLez]

70. "his anti-choice positon on abortion, which is strange,

considering he championed personal choice and individual FREEDOM just minutes earlier."

Ding ding!!

I have listened to his ideas on health care and SURE it would be nice to go to all cash-based medicine (presumably the prices would drop because the funding wouldn't be from health insurance companies and Medicare/Medicaid).

I could SOMEWHAT get on board with this if there were some provisions for the poor.

He talked about eventually phasing out Medicare.


Eh....it's nice to have those little ideals.

I'm a single-payer/ socialized medicine supporter til I die. :)