David Frum of GOP: Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative.....

[steve2470]

defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

more at that link, critiques welcomed

[TomCADem]

1. Shoot, I Am Starting To Actually Like Reading Frum...I Disagree With Him...

But at least he is not spouting off talking points from a Frank Lutz memo or repeating the latest rubbish from LimBeck. I used to enjoy debating with Republicans before they all became dittoheads.

[DJ13]

2. I like what he's (now) saying

But I never trust a snake no matter how nice they act.

[opihimoimoi]

3. To their own undoing, the GOPers able to comprehend are far out numbered by those unable = flawed

communication within... = division = loss

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. Barry Goldwater certainly wouldn't recognize today's GOP. I agree with Frum..(nt)

[Ozymanithrax]

5. Many of us deplored Democratic Party decisions to govern after 2000...

We were constantly looking for someone to kick ass and say no, and we supported those who did. That is one of the reasons why Kucinich has a strong following, he was willing to stand up and say no. Democrats never carried it to the extremes Republicans have used by attempting to shut down the government, but most of us here would have supported such a move back then.

Republicans are doing what their extremist constituents want rather than do what they were elected to do, govern the nation with the party in power. What they are doing has endeared themselves with the core of their base, but I'm not sure it has crossed over to pick up the more moderate members of their party or the independents who have grown in numbers over last decade.

Historically, they are set to pick up seats in the midterm. The economy also is on their side, though that may have changed and turned around somewhat by November. What makes this election difficult to predict is how people will react to the Republican "Crazy Jingoistic Fuck" message. If all they do is to succeed at scaring the sane among us, they could face a problem in November.

[MrModerate]

6. Very difficult to predict indeed. However, here's why I think the 'Licans are doomed:

1) The "we're batshit crazy" message will suppress the mid-right vote and kill the near-right vote.

2) The "we're politically inept" image won't help either.

3) The "we're conscienceless fucks who want you to die" theme isn't going to play well anywhere.

4) Dems are feeling their oats and nothing succeeds like success.

5) There's a heap of legislating yet to come before November, and I'm anticipating successes there.

6) Absent another collapse, the economy will be demonstrably better by November.

7) Popular provisions of the healthcare bill will come on line in September.

8) Teabaggers (despite actually being rebranded far-right 'Licans) will split enough races to cause losses where the 'Licans would expect a win, and will drain resources from competitive races into races the righties shouldn't need to fight for. Also, 'Licans won't be able to be competitive in as many races precisely because of teabaggers splitting their support.

And finally, underneath all the sturm und drang of the last few weeks, Dems are much closer to the centroid of American values than the 'Licans, and while that might be muddied in the months to come, it's still a powerful place to be.

I think the 'Licans may take a pasting in November.

[old mark]

7. Well, since the GOP completely gave up on governing because they won't help Obama,

EVERYTHING GOOD is now coming from the Democrats only...and some of it is starting to work! If the employment situation improves before November, the republicans are done.
Even ignorant Americans will remember who helped them and who tried to stop it.

mark

[SoDesuKa]

8. Bush Legacy Flattens GOP Hopes

Bush was a terrible president, at a time when we really needed a good one. He did whatever he felt like, he had no work ethic, and he wouldn't listen to anybody. It amazes me that anybody ever found him likeable.

Frum won't admit that Bush's legacy is the Republicans' biggest problem. Name any issue, and Bush mis-handled it. Republicans are left without any selling points. They can't even claim that conservative government is cheaper.

Republicans need to dig themselves out of the hole Bush left hem in. They could at least act embarrassed about him. What an awful president - much worse than Hoover.

[Turbineguy]

9. No wonder he got fired!

[ThomWV]

10. Thinking like that is what is going to kill the Republican Party. They don't need to silence him

They need to be listening to him - and we would be better off if they did as well.

[steve2470]

11. kick for afternoon/evening crowd nt