Why on Earth does America produce child sized shot guns?

[TheBigotBasher]

Is the person on the right a boy or a man?

A judge in Pennsylvania has denied a request from a 12-year-old homicide suspect to have his case transferred to juvenile court.
Jordan Brown is facing adult charges in the February 2009 shooting death of his father's pregnant girlfriend, and a judge turned down a petition to have the case transferred from criminal to juvenile court.
Police have said the boy, then 11, shot Kenzie Marie Houk, who was eight months' pregnant, once at point-blank range in her farmhouse in western Pennsylvania.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/boy.homicide/index.html?hpt=T2

Why have juvenile courts if you are not going to use them? How on Earth is a 12 year old not a juvenile? What on Earth is a "youth model 20-gauge shotgun"?

Children are often jealous if a parent gets a new partner, they see such partners as coming between their mum and dad. Few get given the tools to act out on that jealousy. This is beyond disgusting in so many ways.

[Gman]

1. A 20 gauge is a good shotgun to start with

it doesn't kick as much as like a 12 gauge and is good to start kids out with for bird hunting, rabbit hunting, etc.

I don't think they are intended to be used on pregnant girlfriends of 12 year old fathers.

[RB TexLa]

4. +1

[csziggy]

15. The pregnant woman was the girlfriend of the father - not the 12 year old

[TheBigotBasher]

18. Err - yeah.

That is quite obvious. That does not justify trying a child as an adult or giving him a gun in the first place.

He is very obviously a boy and not a man.

[Wilber_Stool]

99. The 12 year old was

11 at the time of the shooting. An 11 year old boy has absolutely no concept of what he is doing or the consequences.

[Gman]

106. I probably could have phrased that better

to be more clear that the woman was the dad's girlfriend.

[tularetom]

30. Kids hell - a 20 ga with improved cylinder or modified choke is a lot of fun for shooting doves

My son in law swears he brought down a fairly good sized pig with a 20 ga. slug. I think he's bullshitting unless he was standing right next to the thing.

[MineralMan]

54. When I was 12, I got a 20 ga. Ithaca Super Light double

side-by-side from my father. It was probably 20 years old at the time, and could only be used with low-base shells. It weighed only about 5 lb., and was the fastest-pointing shotgun I ever fired. I used it for hunting valley quail in California and that shotgun made me a crack wing shot.

When I was 14, and 6' tall, we restocked it to fit me better, and I continued to use it until I left home. Then my brother, who was five years younger took it over. Sadly, he got a mud plug in the left barrel, then fired it and split the barrel. What a sad day that was.

These days, that lovely shotgun is sort of out of my price range, but what a lovely gun for a kid.

[Gman]

105. I prefer my 12 gauge modified choke for doves

knocks 'em right down, sometimes two at a time.

[Skink]

2. trade deficit?

[msongs]

3. exercising his right to open carry. very popular concept amongst gun ....owners nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

6. conflating civil rights with illegal actions. very popular concept amongst gun... grabbers nt

[Chulanowa]

19. All those criminals got their weapons from somewhere

Odds are they didn't build them in the garage. I wish folks like you would stop pretending there's absolutely no connection between number of guns and number of gun crimes. It's really sort of pathetic, especially when you get out of your ultra-defensive, self-blinding coccoon and realize nobody's saying all gun owners are criminals - just pointing out that a large number of criminals are gun owners.

[spin]

24. Not saying that all car owners are alcoholics...but a large number of alcoholics own cars...

same concept and just as invalid.

[Scout]

77. so it isn't true that a large number of alcoholics own cars? n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

26. Your response has nothing to do with the conflation of "open carry advocacy" seen in post #3

Do try to keep up with the conversation.
To address your concerns...

Gun ownership has, not steadily, but greatly risen in the last 10+ years while violent crime rates have fallen. More guns ≠ more crime.
Yes, there is a connection between gun ownership and the crime rate... but it doesn't agree with your viewpoints.
Many criminals do own guns because they are effective tools. However, the legality of such ownership is certainly notable.

[Statistical]

45. Well there is no connection.

Murder rate has declined over last 20 years.
Firearms in circulation has tripled.

[Winterblues]

55. Wow just like in Samalia

firearm circulation has tripled....D'Oh...

[Statistical]

60. Yup just like Somalia well minus the violence, death, terror, and lack of functioning govt.

So yeah minus all that, "exactly" like Somalia.

[Garfinkeling]

88. The purpose of open carry is.......

Intimidation? Protection from the 'robbers' that lurk at every corner?

[Scout]

50. they aren't pretending, they just don't give a shit about other people

you can't take away our FREEEEEEEDUMBS!

as long as the crime wasn't committed by a legal gun owner, they don't give a fuck, and the answer is for all potential victims to be armed, we are all responsible for our own safety, when seconds count the police are minutes away, you're not crazy unless you've been declared so in a court of law and should therefore be allowed to have as many guns as you want, blah blah blah yadda yadda bullshit.

and at least one of them will come on and demand that i PROVE what i'm saying, provide a link, it's not ME that says that...

and i will ignore them.

spend enough time in the gungeon (if you can stomach it) and while they may not say so in so many words, you will see the attitude i describe oozing out of most of their posts. they don't give a fuck.

[Statistical]

51. Reality is Police have no duty to protect.

There is over 30 years of Supreme Court cases to back that up.
You might want to read about it.

Purpose of Police is to arrest criminals and provide evidence which can be used by the State in trial.

[Statistical]

41. Free speech leads to rise in Nazi party.

See it is very easy to make up ridiculous links between legal actions and atrocities.

[proteus_lives]

86. Ignorance. A very popular concept amongst....people who oppose the 2nd Amendment.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. A "youth model 20-gauge shotgun" is a shotgun with smaller ergonomics for teaching shooting.

Usually they are break action single shot and in a caliber less than 12ga (16ga, 20ga, 28ga or .410).
Less kick and easier to handle makes teaching proper shooting skills to young hunters or young sport shooters.

I think this kid needed more firearm training in the way of responsibility and laws.

[TheBigotBasher]

9. This kid did not need a gun.

To give a child a gun is beyond stupid.

[Kaleva]

27. Many kids in rural areas get guns.

I had a .22 before I was 10 and bought a 30-30 long before I was old enough to get a drivers license.

[Statistical]

42. The irony of someone named BigotBasher being a Bigot.

Please bash yourself.

[tammywammy]

47. +1 n/t

[TheBigotBasher]

107. How on Earth is it bigoted

to question the wisdom of giving a child, a young boy a gun? Then trying him as an adult when the obvious conclusion of that stupid decision happens?

Someone up thread has guns for their child which they lock away - seperately from the bullets, that could have prevented this idiocy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

64. My daughters all had youth guns growing up. They were "their" guns, but they were not stored

in their rooms. They were locked up with the rest of the firearms. No sure what was the case here.

[slackmaster]

75. It's not up to you to decide who needs what

For anyone other than yourself and your dependents.

[Codeine]

79. I had a gun. I turned out just fine. nt

[shedevil69taz]

14. and the father needs a lesson

On securing firearms. My kid "owns" (he'll get to store them how he sees fit when he is of age) a couple rifles and shotguns he inherited from his uncle and you know who has the keys to access them? ME they are locked up unloaded and the ammo stored seperately. My son has no access to them without constant and direct supervision from me or another trusted adult.

[Statistical]

44. +1. Secure access is responsibility of the adult. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. You think that the guy has not been given any tough lessons lately? n/t

[Scout]

78. too bad his lessons "lately" are too little too fucking late n/t

[KonaKane]

7. I wish I would have had one when I started

I was a small even for a seven year old, and when my grandpa put that 12 gauge side by side in my hands it was like trying to lift a howitzer. When I pulled that trigger it knocked me clean on my ass and put a nice welt on my shoulder.

That hurt!

[Kaleva]

28. I ended up the same way when an uncle had me fire his 12 gauge.

[Odin2005]

8. Because you need something to TEACH using a gun with?

Something that seems to be beyond the comprehension of the gun-haters.

[TheBigotBasher]

11. How on Earth can you justify giving a child a gun

and then prosecuting him as a full grown adult for using it?

[NeedleCast]

13. Insanely illogical

How can you give a child a pocket knife and expect him not to stab his classmates...

[blueamy66]

36. So, do we prosecute

the father for giving the kid a gun?

I say yes...prosecute them both.

[X_Digger]

43. Not sure there's a PA law being broken (re youth access)

Laws vary by state, of course.

[Xenotime]

35. Teach how to shoot people....YEa that's really good.

[X_Digger]

38. Who said anything about teaching kids to shoot people?

..other than you?

Teaching a kid to drive isn't "teaching a kid to mow down a crowd of pedestrians", is it?

Hunting and target shooting is an activity enjoyed responsibly by millions of kids and parents each year.

[Odin2005]

97. who said anything about shooting people?

Shotguns are for hunting birds.

[Fla_Democrat]

10. Uhm, for children

They tried just cutting the stock and barrels down for kids to go hunting... but that didn't work so well. :smoke:

Wanna really set your mind to spinning...... click....

http://www.snake-charmer.net/pages_us/technical.htm

[NeedleCast]

12. Because children are smaller then adults?

Seems obvious...

[TheBigotBasher]

16. It seem obvious not to sell guns for children.

This is a boy not a man. He should not be tried in an adult court and he should not have had a gun in the first place.

[Matariki]

21. You've never lived in the country, have you?

[TheBigotBasher]

23. Yes I have.

No one was stupid enough to give me a gun.

This is a boy, given a gun by stupid adults who now faces an adult trial because of a real stupid lack of parental responsibility.

Little boys should never be given real guns.

[blueamy66]

39. I agree.

We grew up in the country.

My Dad didn't give us guns....he saw too many in the Korean War.

I guess we made do with riding horses and swimming in irrigation ditches and playing in the hay bales and milking cows. I really don't think I missed out on much cause my Dad didn't put a gun in my hands at 8 years of age. :eyes:

[muffin1]

68. +1 n/t

[proteus_lives]

89. Maybe they knew you couldn't handle it.

I got my first .22 when I was ten.

[NeedleCast]

98. Why Not?

I was one of of a dozen cousins who grew up with access to a large ranch in central Texas and most of us were shooting guns (always under parental observation) by age eight. None of us was ever injured and none of us has ever injured someone else with a gun.

The argument that you shouldn't give anything that can be used as a weapon to a chile because they might injure someone with it is impractical.

[Zoeisright]

17. For extremely stupid people to buy?

There are plenty of them.

[Matariki]

20. Because they're fun?

I used to shoot at cans and groundhogs on my grandparent's farm when I was a kid - from about the time I was 7 or 8. My cousin used to shoot small game that my grandmother would prepare for dinner.

It's not 'disgusting', it's typically rural.

[spoony]

22. Lot of things to shake one's head at in this case

I don't think the size of the gun is near the top of the list.

[Kaleva]

25. They are often a good choice for many women.

[yodoobo]

29. I would support adding them to the next assault weapons ban

There is simply no good that can come out of guns for children.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

31. You would add, arguably, one the oldest known firearms to a modern AWB?

The shotgun has been around since the early 1700's (before American independence).
It was most certainly one of the more common arms at the time the 2A was written.
And in more modern times (1900's +) it has been a staple firearm for hunting.

It's people like you and statements like yours that illustrate gun control wants to ban all firearms. This logic, like you've so openly displayed, is what has turned groups like the Fraidy Campaign, the VPC, and HCI into pariahs and driven them into obscurity while vaulting groups like the NRA, GOA, and SCCC into center-stage politics. Keep up the "good fight"... really :). Your efforts have been invaluable to us.

[yodoobo]

83. Didn't realize that child guns were manufactured in the 1700's

I'm skeptical but thats neither here nor there.

Regardless of their history, I do support banning child guns.

Its a dumb idea no matter if its 1 year or 1,000 years old.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

85. "Child Gun" is a marketing term.

C'mon... use your head. Your talking about banning a marketing term.
Do you seriously expect such an action to have ANY real world effect?
Would you feel better if they were rebranded as "Midget Guns"?

Firearms come in a variety of calibers, lengths of pull, weights, and combs. Most are break action (or blowback .22) as well.
A "child gun" is simply a firearm with those attributes being smaller than the rest... however adults use such models as well.
I was simply stating if you want to actually ban guns children use... you'd be banning the most fundamental firearms on the planet.

[MadHound]

71. Really? How about teaching kids how to responsibly handle guns,

How to do so safely and in the proper manner.

I learned how to shoot when I was ten years old, a lot of people do. It doesn't make them into psychopaths or lunatics. It makes them into responsible gun owners.

[yodoobo]

81. Kids need to be taught to stay away from guns

not embrace them nor imply that its ok by making child sized guns.

There is plenty of time to learn gun handling as an adult.

[MadHound]

103. Well, that is part of teaching gun safety,

When to use one, when not to.

What is not OK about a kid safely and responsibly using a gun? Hmm, let's see, I didn't become a mass murderer, nor did any of the other kids I grew up with who were taught about guns at a young age. Matter of fact we had a great time with guns.

Besides, the actual physical mechanics of firing a gun are best learned while a person is young, just like any other athletic ability. I rarely fire a gun anymore, but when I do I'm still a very good shot due to muscle memory and such. Meanwhile, people who learn when they're adults don't have that and rarely develop it to the same extent as somebody who learned as a child.

We teach children many dangerous activities when they are young because that is the best time to do so, because it is easier for them to learn at a young age. Why are you OK with a kid learning, oh say, how to weld, but not how to fire and safely handle a gun?

I would much rather have a kid know what a gun is, what it can do, and learn how to properly handle it than to have a kid, or adult, who is still curious, doesn't know how to handle a gun and blows away themselves or somebody else (case in point, Plaxico Burress who shot himself in the ass because all he knew about guns was from TV and didn't have the common sense to realize that sticking a gun in your back waistband is a stupid, stupid thing to do).

[slackmaster]

76. The Republican Party thanks you for expressing that view on a Democratic forum

:argh:

[yodoobo]

80. The Republican party thanks gun nuts

when they support guns for children.

[proteus_lives]

90. Except training, respect for firearms and safety.

I got my first .22 when I was ten.

[spin]

95. The last assault weapons ban was an outstanding success ...

before the ban, few of my fellow shooters had any interest at all in "assault weapons".

Along came the ban. All of a sudden everybody just had to get a crippled "assault rifle" which was merely a semi-auto rifle that cosmetically resembles a real select fire military firearm. And they all wanted "hi-cap" magazines (sometimes mistakenly called clips) which would hold more than 10 rounds for their semi-auto handgun or rifle.

These items were readily available but more expensive than before the ban. They sold like hotcakes.

And everyone, except me, had one or more. I owned a bolt action Mauser rifle which was far more powerful than an AR-15 or AK-47 clone and I really didn't see a reason valid enough to buy a magazine for any of my pistols that held more than 10 rounds. I was quite happy with my 1911 45 auto with only 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber. Hell, I can change a magazine in a heartbeat.

Now now the most popular selling rifles in the country are based on the AR platform and are widely used for hunting and target shooting. They are very versatile, extremely accurate and very durable.

Get one thing straight. Bans never work. Ban alcohol and you get a bigger problem than you had before. Ban drugs and the same thing happens. Banning assault weapons has failed once before and will fail again if tried.

[Arkansas Granny]

32. The size of the gun has nothing to do with the story. This woman is dead because

the actual adults in this situation did not practice responsible gun ownership. The boy should not have had access to the gun or the ammunition without adult supervision. That's nothing but common sense.

I disagree with trying the boy as an adult. A twelve year old child is just that, a child, and is not capable of making adult decisions and, therefore, should not be considered as an adult for prosecution of crime.

[Statistical]

49. +1. Boy should be charged as juvinile. Father should also be facing some charges.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Sure. Because he hasn't been kicked enough.

:sarcasm:

[X_Digger]

33. Because there are 6-9 million youth hunters?

Hunting is an activity enjoyed by many rural and suburban kids, and full sized (length and caliber) shotguns are painful for many youth to shoot.

Obviously this kid should not be tried as an adult, but that has nothing to do with whether or not he had access to one kind of shotgun or another.

[LanternWaste]

34. Increase the target demographic increases profit...

Increasing the target demographic may often increase profit.

[tammywammy]

37. Because a large portion of the population enjoys hunting

And in those families the adults teach their children gun safety and the rules for hunting. A smaller firearm is more appropriate for those types of activities.

[AnArmyVeteran]

53. I understand about 'hunting', but mostly it's just assassination...

I know that most hunters are responsible people participating in an act as old as mankind itself. But face it, when a guy buys a $5,000 deer blind, $5,000 deer lease, $1,500 rifle, $500 worth of camouflage clothing and plants seed corn all around the blind and then waits for an unsuspecting deer to appear ten feet away is that really 'hunting'? There is as much 'sport' as going to a grocery store and blasting away at the meat counter with an automatic weapon. I'd like to see a day when the animals are armed to equalize the equation. Only then would 'hunting' be credible.

There are 'hunting' locations where you go and people throw up birds which have their wings clipped so 'hunters' can kill them as they flop around in the air trying to fly without all their feathers. How can anyone sleep at night who participates in such despicable carnage and willful murder of a defenseless animal? (oh yeah, that is what Cheney was doing when he shot his friend in the face)

[tammywammy]

56. The people I know that hunt do not do it that way.

:shrug:

Regardless, this has nothing to do with the OP on why they make smaller firearms for children.

[AnArmyVeteran]

62. Yeah, I remember when gun manufacturers made colored handguns...

Remember a few years ago when gun manufacturers made blue, yellow, red and orange handguns? There was a big outcry because they looked like toy guns and kids could easily mistake them for toys. I'm not sure if they are still available or not, but I hope they aren't. Talk about irresponsible gun manufacturers. They would make anything if they could sell them, regardless of the consequences. All they care about is making money without a thought of the carnage their products produce.

I remember buying a 22 rifle when I was about 16. Then anyone could buy one at a Kmart or wherever legally even at 16. I just used it to shoot non-living targets. Cactus apples made great targets where I lived at the time. Sorry about the post about 'hunting'. I know there are a lot of responsible hunters. But when I was growing up one of the things included in the hunting 'gear' were lots of bottles of whisky. Every adult we knew took booze with them on 'hunting' trips. I hope people don't still do that. People also proudly came back from their trips with a dead deer tied over the hoods of their cars. I haven't seen that in a long time though.

[Statistical]

40. I received a rifle as a child (13). I managed to not kill anyone.

Your bias is disgusting in so many ways.

A kid willing and able to kill a defenseless person has mental health problems.
How about you focus on poor mental health availability, education, and understanding in this country as opposed to the tool he used.

[X_Digger]

46. I'm looking at the 16ga break action shotgun my grandfather gave me..

I was 12 at the time. I got my first 22 when I was 10.

[Statistical]

48. My friend has a 22 when I was I think 10.

I remember going over to his backyard (with his father present) and shooting cans.

Lots of talks about being responsible. Keeping it "downrange". Knowing position of safety at all times.

I wanted one SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad but my parents held firm until I was 13. For a kid 3 years feels like a decade.

[proteus_lives]

91. Got my first .22 at ten also.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Would you advocate a gun license, which includes a mental health check, for anyone to shoot then?

You obviously think that someone who can evaluate mental health should have examined this child before he was given a gun; and presumably that should therefore apply to anyone, juvenile or adult.

[Statistical]

70. VA has no licenses for adults I certainly wouldn't burden families by getting a license for children

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. So who gets to decide someone is mentally incompetent?

The guy selling the gun at a show? The guy behind the counter in a shop? Do you really think they can tell that in the few minutes they have access to the customer?

If you are asking for guns to be kept out of the hands of the mentally incompetent, such as this boy (congrats on the internet diagnosis, by the way), then you need a licensing system for each evaluation to be made. All owners would have to produce proof they are capable of owning a gun responsibly.

[Tailormyst]

52. Because some families hunt together.

[MicaelS]

57. Because not all children are amoral monsters, that's why n/t

[TwilightGardener]

58. My teenage boys both wanted real guns to shoot--all their friends have their own

and do target shooting and hunting. I said no. Just as I won't let them drive before they reach the age of better judgment and responsibility (and that may or may not be 16), I won't let them have free access to a deadly weapon. I don't know why some parents want this for their children.

[Statistical]

61. So if there friend have access to them do you really think they don't have access to them?

Keeping weapons secret and mysterious only makes them "more powerful".

Knowledge is safety.

[TwilightGardener]

66. I don't need to bend to the gun culture because of poor decision-making

by other parents. I don't care what's cool, what's popular, or what's considered "male rite of passage" in my neck of the woods. I have told my sons that they are not to go near weapons at other kids' houses--I don't trust those other kids to be safe with their guns. Just as I don't trust some of them, who are learning to drive, to drive with my kids in the car. I have made my wishes clear to some of their friends' parents, as well. I understand that some things are beyond my control, but I do the best I can. They do have airsoft rifles to get that urge to shoot tin cans, etc. out of their system (they are never allowed to shoot at animals). When they are a bit more mature, my husband will probably teach them how to use a real gun, but they will not own any of their own--or have access to my husband's--in my household. They can buy as many guns as they want when they grow up and move out.

[seabeyond]

59. being anti gun absolutely and not liking them at all, having a hubby that owns guns and sons

that have learned to use them, i can appreciate the argument from both sides

when i read posters on du suggest " it is for the stupid people" or "giving a gun to a kid is giving him the means to kill" to me are very stupid statements in themselves.

there is a lot in teaching children responsibility in gun ownership and use. there are a handful of positives in hunting with father/son bonding. as much as i am not a part of it and have no desire to be a part of it, as much as i simply do not like it, i can recognize advantages and positives in the whole gun issue.

what this kid did has nothing to do with 12 guage made for kids.

what this kid did has nothing to do with kids as a whole.

it is a whole seperate issue.

and it is less than insightful to try to tie it all together in a neat little bow.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. A) he hasn't been found guilty

B) He denies the accusations, and dad apparently believes him.
C) Those who say that "Dad should go to jail because Jordan was unsupervised with the gun" forget that there was an adult in the house - HER house, and we don't know what took place.

[TorchTheWitch]

84. he did it

And his father knows he did it. The investigation showed that the woman was in bed asleep and shot in the back of the head/neck at point blank range. The kid removed the spent shell, put the gun back in his room and left for school with his little sister. On the pathway leading from the house he deposited the spent shell. Only the kid and his sister's footprints appeared in the fresh snow that had fallen leading away from the house. The kid was still wearing the same clothes he was wearing when he shot her and gun powder residue was found on his clothing.

The kid did it, his father knows he did it, and his father also knows that the only way to possibly keep his son from going to prison is to plead not guilty and hope that somehow during the trial some sort of reasonable doubt can be found.

Read the judge's opinion - http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pdf/201003/20100329opinion_motto_jordanbrown.pdf

[Heywood J]

102. That sounds awfully premeditated.

I think that's the reason he's being tried as an adult. Concealing the shell could easily look like consciousness of guilt - the argument can be made that he knew what he was doing was wrong and tried not to get caught.

Whether it's right or wrong to try him as one, I think we have the reason.

[Obamanaut]

72. The answer is simple. Most children are smaller than adults and need

the smaller weapon.

[upi402]

82. "need"? n/t

[Obamanaut]

104. "need"! I'm sure they 'want' the 'grown-up' size, but 'need' the smaller

weapon because of their smaller stature.

[slackmaster]

74. Same reason they produce child-sized bicycles

A full-sized 12-gauge shotgun is too large and has too much recoil for a small person to handle comfortably. Teaching kids gun safety when they are young is usually a good thing.

[proteus_lives]

87. I my first .22 when I was ten.

And a 20 gauge is another good model to start out with.

[4lbs]

92. I played with cap pistols when I was 10.

Something like this:





Although, that's a far cry from a real gun. Nevertheless, a police officer could easily mistake a child's cap pistol for a real gun, especially if it makes a realistic sounding bang sound.

[flvegan]

93. This thread went about as expected.

Having been a child that was taught to shoot at a very young age (with military weapons, no less) by my Navy retired father, I can understand the desire for a smaller hunting/target weapon. However, the gun and ammo should never have been in any way accessible by the child.

As for being tried as an adult, I'm torn on this. I don't know the kid, and I wasn't there. However, the little bit I've read about the kid and the situation (not to get all Frist-ian here) makes it sound like the kid either leans towards being a sociopath or even a psychopath.

Regardless, there will be no winners in this case, and certainly already much has been lost by the events leading up to this point.

[slackmaster]

96. Darn you for being reasonable, flvegan

:argh:

[Orsino]

94. So we pretend that children are automatically responsible enough to handle firearms...

...and eventually we are forced to pretend that they aren't children, when it goes this wrong.

We're good at pretending.

[slackmaster]

101. More and more parents aren't qualified to teach gun safety to their children, so...

...It should be taught in public schools.

[Ter]

100. Unrecommended

He shot her point blank. He should be tried as an adult, and never see freedom for the rest of his life. Trying to excuse this heinous crime is the reason we lose elections.

[aikoaiko]

108. Because it is safer during firearm training and competition.

Adult sized shotguns can be heavy and difficult to buttress against their shoulders which can lead to poor firearm safety handling.

[LynneSin]

109. Oh they even make pastel pink kids shotguns for your girls

I kid you not