Can someone take a minute and explain this to me, the need to equate violence as equal on all sides

[Peacetrain]

I was listening to Mika on MSNBC this AM and the morning Joe crew.. (Joe not being there)..and the thrust of the segment I was listening to, was how the violence being pointed at a number of our legislators is equal on all sides.

What did I miss when?

How many out to lunch on the left have entered a church and killed people because they were conservatives? None.. hmmmm well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting


How many liberal militias are there targeting police to kill other police at a funeral and then cause a political upheaval right now....hmmmmm

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=Sbin

You could just go on and on..

The man who threatened Eric Cantor Norman Lebon who made the anti-Semitic videos on u tube is somehow a liberal? in whose alternate universe are these media people living in. the anti-Semitic harangues come from the militias the KKK the people who lean that way which is shall I be blunt..

THE FRINGE RIGHT.

EDIT to add.. by doing this, they are demeaning the quite real threat to Eric Cantor by the fringe of the right.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Because the left-wing violence of the '60s & '70s is still fresh in many minds. nt

[Peacetrain]

2. That was what I was taking away.. what happened 50 years ago

is what they are using to make this point!

[HughMoran]

12. Yes Mika, who was born in 1967, remembers this as if it was yesterday!

...or not!

:eyes:

No wonder I have that person on iggy. :eyes:

[muffin1]

17. Yes...50 fucking years ago.

And not that violence is EVER right, but then the protests were about us KILLING innocent people in another bullshit war. The teabaggers are protesting, ahem, tax-cuts to the middle-class, HEALTH CARE reform, and a black President.

[Captain Hilts]

28. Cable news channel viewers average over age 60. nt

[Lerkfish]

5. do tell. were you alive in the 60s and 70s?

if not, let me tell you there has been a massive rewriting of history at that time, portraying the left as violent and ignoring the thug police at the time. why do you think the term "pig" came into vogue?

[Captain Hilts]

16. Um, yes I was alive, and no, I didn't say it was one way but the image of the protests in Chicago in

'68 are firmly imprinted on many folks. THAT's where it comes from.

[Lerkfish]

18. there was no equivalence, just like now

how old are you, btw? I'm 51

[Captain Hilts]

23. I'm 50.5. Remember the average age of folks that watch news networks is late '60s. nt

[smoogatz]

37. The violence in Chicago in '68 was instigated by the Chicago police.

The protesters were rowdy and refused orders to disperse, but things didn't get ugly until the cops waded in with tear gas and batons. Look it up, if you're interested.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

42. Just when I think I cant be surprised by something I read on DU

I read that it was those crazy "lefty's" fault, I guess they had it coming in 68. This place has turned into fucking Bizzaro World.

[smoogatz]

45. You'd think at least the people who were around then

would get it. It's amazing how quickly these revisionist histories take hold.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

54. I was born in 1972 and even I know what happened in Chicago

It's too bad people don't read history.

[CTyankee]

35. And did liberal members of Congress egg them on and encourage MORE of

that behavior?

No, they did not. THAT is your difference.

And yes, I was very much aware of what went on those days. I watched the Chicago protest on television while it was happening.

God, the older I get the more revisionist history has become with some people...

[EFerrari]

49. No but party leaders tried to hide what THE POLICE were doing

from the delegates inside.

[EFerrari]

48. The violence of THE CHICAGO POLICE was denounced on the convention floor. n/t

[chill_wind]

26. And the memory of Oklahoma City is even fresher.

And that's what terrifies the press guardians and apologists for the right.

[Captain Hilts]

30. Cable news network viewers average over age 60. nt

[chill_wind]

38. And they didn't have TV, magazines and newspapers when they were 45?

They remember, and so does a lot of America that was around 15 years ago.

And that's what we should make it about, because right now that IS what it's about.

[smoogatz]

27. Okay...

And members of violent left-wing groups like SDS, the Weathermen and the Black Panthers were hunted down by law enforcement and vigorously prosecuted, were they not? In fact, protesters were routinely beaten by police, violent or not (I was there in a couple of instances, and watched as the police instigated violence so they could bust some heads), and even shot and killed by Ohio National Guard members at Kent State--remember that one? An old friend of mine in Ohio was one of the bystanders wounded at Kent State--he's still in a wheelchair, thank you very much. Those people were mainly protesting an immoral and pointless war that had killed over 50,000 Americans, and for which the male protesters were all potential cannon fodder, given that the military draft was still very much in play. That war also killed some 5,000,000 people in SE Asia, the vast majority of them civilians, the vast majority of them killed by American aerial bombing. While I did not then and do not now believe that violence is a legitimate tool of political protest, I do believe that the protest movement of the '60s and '70s was largely a rational and legitimate response to that meat-grinder of a war. What is it, again, that the teabaggers are protesting? Deficit spending? Give me a fucking break.

[Captain Hilts]

33. The OP asked why the press likes to equate the two sides and I said so. I do not agree with this

assertion by the press.

So, give me a break.

[smoogatz]

40. You might've said so in your earlier post(s).

Instead you implied that you felt some equivalence, based on your memory of Chicago '68, etc. That was my reading of your post, anyway, and evidently I wasn't alone. If I was mistaken, my apologies to you--but my response is also directed at the newsmorons and teabagger dickheads who would draw such false equivalencies. They ARE false, and if people on the left understood their own history a bit better, we'd be able to make that case more effectively.

[Toots]

31. Don't forget the left wing violence from the 1850's and 1860's

Left wing abolitionists and them northern aggressors.:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

34. Look, cable news network viewers are overwhelmingly elderly. What is imprinted on

their memories is different from you and me.

I don't at all agree with this feeble attempt at equivalence. The OP asked on what basis they were being equated and I gave an explanation.

So, spare me the sarcasm and lay the fuck off.

[Warpy]

36. "So? Everybody does it!"

"They're just as bad, if not worse!"

"But Ma! He did it too!"

It's that age old justification of unacceptable behavior by telling the world you're not the only one doing it, so why the hell is everybody picking on you?

It didn't work when we were five. It shouldn't work now.

Generation Suck is having a temper tantrum. Mom needs to give them a time out.

[EFerrari]

47. What leftwing violence of the 60s and 70s?

[Lerkfish]

3. because they think it gives them cover to continue doing it.

as long as they portray it as "but everyone's guilty" they don't have to condemn it they only have to play victim, too.

If they REALLY thought it was bad behaviour, they'd clamp down on the tea party immediately. But since they're playing it this way, its a dogwhistle to them to increase the violence.

"Hey, the OTHER SIDE is doing it too, so keep going"


pretty much the same arguments you get from any lopsided conflict....and the aggressor wishes to keep aggressing.

[GoCubsGo]

24. Exactly right.

They also think it will absolve them of their guilt. Which it doesn't.

The Unibomber? 1960's war protesters? Seriously? That's the best they can do???

[spanone]

4. learn quickly...the media L I E S

[HughMoran]

6. 1) Name one left-wing militia in the USA 2) Teabag equivalent on the left protesting at this time?

Anybody who is trying to equate left & right WRT violent acts of late is basically making excuses for the right-wing violence.







edit: speeling

[Peacetrain]

8. Exactly!

[Deep13]

7. Remember when the ACLU lynched all those people?

Me neither.

[NJmaverick]

9. It's from the KKK Rove play book

accuse the other side of the crimes you are guilty of. It forces the accuser to stop accusing as they defend against the lies

[HughMoran]

19. & the Republicans have done this 100 times, yet the fucking moronic media never catches on

Since when did the media simply repeat propaganda without critical analysis?

Ahhh, yes, since they all started modeling themselves after Faux 'News'. :eyes:

The media is so god-damned lazy or right-wing leaning in this country - it makes me sick!

I wonder who Faux would support if a large right-wing group started a lengthy insurrection?

[NoSheep]

44. Pretty sure the media HAS caught on. This crap gets a lot of attenton.

They need the ad revenue and the advertisers. Get those ratings up, y'know. It occurred to me the other day that we may need to start subsidizing the main streeam media so they won't need to cover this crap to get attention. Everywhere you look you read and hear Tea Party -how many of them are there, really?

[meegbear]

10. It's called ...

"MOM! HE WON'T STOP TOUCHING ME!" "WELL HE TOUCHED ME FIRST!"

[Peacetrain]

15. It was just jaw dropping.. the lunacy of what they were trying to push

which in reality, demeans the threat to Cantor.. It is so ludicrous

[Maeve]

11. There's also the idea that if all are guilty, no one is guilty

It's like the childish thought that getting my brother into trouble too gets me out of it.

[Klukie]

13. a weak attempt to justify the behavior....

Kinda like my kids saying well he did it first in an attempt to avoid responsibility

[seabeyond]

14. by saying it is both sides the argument is null and void adn can be dismissed, without insight and

reflection. ownership. work that needs to be done. head in the sand. deny deny deny.

it is a way to appease and enable thinking that they will get a person/group to not be on the defensive so a person/group would be open to discussion to heal, address, merely recognize.

BUT

it is dishonest. and anytime one attempts in dishonesty, the result will be dishonest.

[chill_wind]

20. What is obvious is that the 9 terrorists looking for lawyers

this morning are not what you'd call lefties. MSM gas-bags can try to blow all kinds of smoke around that until they pass out.

[Peacetrain]

21. Bingo!..NT

[Odin2005]

22. The Big Lie.

[KittyWampus]

25. Listening to NPR yesterday, the Rightwing shills also say "Democrats have it coming"

[GoCubsGo]

32. Ah, yes....

The "They're MAKING us do it!" defense. It's all those damn Democrats' fault that we have no self-control.

[Bluerthanblue]

29. because acknowledging that nearly half the country is aligned with

a political party which quietly (and sometimes not so quietly) believe violence and threatening behaviour is not only ok, it's "Patriotic" is just too disturbing to face?

Like when people reassure themselves about disturbing things about themselves by saying "well, everybody does it" as if that would make it less bad?

I'm not saying that there aren't assholes on our side, or who would align themselves as left wing who behave and endorse behaviour that is similar- but we tend to encourage 'diplomacy' and view the welfare of our society as being of equal importance as the right of the individual? imo.

The claim of "well they both do it"- or Cantor's crying victim when the threats became an issue I think that's a typical ploy to avoiding taking responsibility for your part in what happened. (spreading lies, distortion, and fueling anger)
Kind of like when a kid says "yeah but HE did _______" in response to being caught red-handed.

:shrug:

[Echo In Light]

52. +1 - it's the child's way of accusing another of what they did or started

[ShortnFiery]

39. Hey, you ask for such inane logic when you tune into "Mourning Ho-Jo."

Turn the channel? :shrug:

[chill_wind]

41. Eugene Robinson in WAPO takes this on.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x526968#top

[merh]

43. It has a lot to do with responses learned in childhood.

"They started it"

"I know you are, but what am I"

[DirkGently]

46. A childish, fallacious excuse for incivility?

... the same they use all the time. Fox can lie and distort because of the supposed amorphous, theoretical "liberal bias" in the press. Texas schoolbooks can excise Thomas Jefferson and put a Confederate address alongside Lincoln's because of the same supposed liberal bias that is claimed to affect every kind of education. Torture is necessary because terrorists torture.

It's a convenient, reflexive excuse for every kind of evil rightwingers want to embrace. They're just doing what everyone does (according to them).

They just do it more, and first.

[kestrel91316]

50. They are children: "But Mooooommmmmm!!!! HE did it, TOO!!!"

[barbiegeek]

51. If it scares the gun toting fringe into shutting up--GOOD

[havocmom]

53. It's grown-ups pulling the kid excuse that "everybody does it" to justify bad behavior

GOP/RW does it because they got big, but never grew the fuck up. Still acting up like bad kids who refuse to learn a damned think

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

55. This attempt by the M&M and even some liberal commentators is simply disgusting!

I don't recall anyone carrying guns at an antiwar demonstration or rally.

I don't recall anyone on our side threatening antichoice advocates at their places of worship.

I don't reacall anyone on our side hanging nooses and burning effigies. To be sure, there was some reference to Bush being a murderer but that is because he was responsible for lying us into a war where millions of innocent people were killed.

The Left had legitimate reasons for hating Bush because of his illegal policies and how they harmed people.

These fools are protesting in the streets at the very same time that the economic stimulus provided them with a tax CUT! None of their taxes have gone up under Obama, unless they smoke.

These fools are crying and acting like crazy KKKlan members, and for what? Because the president and the Dems want to give them jobs and health care?

Then, find out that these hoodlums receive all kinds of government assistance.