Were you ever taught by a public school teacher who should be fired for poor performance?

[LoZoccolo]

Poll question: Were you ever taught by a public school teacher who should be fired for poor performance?

[WeDidIt]

1. I said yes

but that was one out of literally dozens who should not be fired for poor performance.

[bluestateguy]

2. yes, but only one bad teacher

Several mediocre teachers who were competent, but not great and a few truly excellent teachers. Only one who was so derelict that he deserved to be fired. He was fired after a three year process of paper pushing and frivolous appeals.

[Oregone]

3. A single bad teacher's proven existence is grounds for firing every teacher at that facility

And then privatize the fuckn thing already.

[stray cat]

8. Who ever taught the 8% of the kids proficient in math should be retained

[Oregone]

18. No. That would leave the union intact

[boppers]

92. 50% can be rehired.

The Union was never in jeopardy, that was a lie/aka "useful distraction".

[Iggo]

113. Oh, but they won't be fired. They'll just be asked to reapply for their own jobs.

See? It's all good.

[stray cat]

4. As soon as someone joins a union they become competent and essential - its magic

[HubertHeaver]

17. The union is not the problem. Incompetence at the

administrative level is the problem.

[Donnachaidh]

22. so you're anti-union? n/t

[donco6]

64. Well, let's get rid of unions, then.

Problem solved!

Do I really need :sarcasm:?

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. I get it, let's get rid of Uniins

next comes the eight hour day. After all working from sun up to sun down has been done you know. Oh and if you are a woman, let's make sure you work in conditions that place you between the boss's store and the boss's bed.

Yep, let's go back to THOSE times

[TommyO]

5. No, throughout my time in public schools, I had competent, professional teachers

It was during my early years in a Catholic school where there were at least three nuns who should not have been teaching.

[denverbill]

20. It's that Nun's Union that's the problem. n/t

[TommyO]

36. Perhaps I should have Gov. Christie (R-bastard) attack them next.

[laughingliberal]

38. +1

Yeah, and try firing them. Lol

[tk2kewl]

6. My public education experience was excellent

I fought like hell with my father to stay out of catholic high school and I have no regrets on that.

[DURHAM D]

7. Yes - just one.

And since my father was President of the School Board said teacher did not have her contract renewed.

[JerseygirlCT]

9. I didn't attend public schools. But my son certainly had a teacher

like that.

She had a violent temper, and the BOE had tried to fire her once because she shoved a desk at a 3rd grader. But apparently they didn't cross their Ts and dot their Is properly, and she got her job back - and was all but untouchable, even though my son's principal would very much like to have gotten rid of her.

She screamed at the kids constantly, bullied my son, and when she found out he'd been talking with the guidance counselor about her (at the principal's suggestion), dragged him down the hall by the ear.

Forget teaching - she should not even have been allowed near children at all.

[walldude]

11. She assaulted a kid and didn't get fired?

Um... than the problem is not only with her but with the school board, assault is a felony, this "teacher" should have been arrested not fired. Then with a felony arrest on her record she could have been easily fired.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. That's what I always thought

Of course, this town also has a habit of allowing itself to be walked over in other ways, too - desperately afraid of things like calling a construction firm's bond when they don't do the work, and the like. Lawsuits are apparently the most scary thing in the world. Better to leave a rotten teacher in place... (insert eyeroll here).

[wolfgangmo]

43. I agree - that one was a no brainer.

The principal should have had another adult (not administrator) call the cops and report an assault.

The problem with the administrator is that s/he was either ineffective (likely in my experience) or lacked a descended nutsack. Many administrators move up from the position of teacher and as a whole they dislike other teachers and kids. Thank God they are in charge of schools.

ahem.

[MineralMan]

10. I had a Junior year English teacher who disliked me.

He told me that I'd never accomplish anything in my life in front of the entire class. I told him, also in front of the entire class that I hoped to accomplish far more than he had done. I got to visit the Principal's office, where I explained what had happened, then asked to be transferred to another class. I was transferred.

A few years later, I sent the absurd teacher a copy of my first book.

[Arkana]

12. Several of them, particularly high school.

My school was full of shitty teachers.

[HubertHeaver]

13. I had one (1), she was dismissed at the end of the year.

That was the 1957-1958 school year.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Private school teachers, too.

[Fuzz]

15. But not as many as I had in private 'christian' schools.

[Zoeisright]

29. Me too.

n/t

[chill_wind]

16. One stands out especially in my memory- an alcoholic math teacher

spent all her time out in the hall instead of teaching, never collected homework, rarely gave a test
and still didn't know any of our names at the end of the year when it came time to manufacture a grade.

I had a few other very marginal teachers, couple of them were athletic coaches that clearly didn't care that much for the classroom, but none quite as deficient as her. And I had many excellent, awesome teachers along the way, as well. Twas a long time ago, though.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

19. No. I go to a public university and the professors are wonderful.

I went to a private elementary and high school though and there are about 2 teachers that should have been fired.

[otohara]

23. Two Teacher Experiences I'll Never Forget

3rd grade i broke my wrist in 3 places, putting my right arm in a cast for several weeks - during this period we were learning how to write "cursive" - (showing my age)
I had to use my left hand and I did the best I could considering the situation. My teacher seemed sympathetic to my situation - then she gave me an F. I cried for days.

High school brought a horrible experience from the Principal Mrs. Belcher (I kid not) - when she pulled me out of class and told me to "quit, or get pregnant" like my sister did. Now I wasn't the best student, but I was no trouble maker and attended school everyday. What would prompt her to do this was a mystery to me - I did not tell my mother as it would have caused a horrible scene. I ended up quitting and went to a trade school type place... eventually I ended up with pretty awesome jobs in the record bizness, then ended up in radio until the pain of polio became unbearable.

that was YEARS and YEARS ago ...

[Gidney N Cloyd]

24. Yes. And are we counting gym teachers? Then yes x 10.

(I liked gym but be we had some cretinous pricks over the years.)

[TommyO]

44. You know, I had put that out of my mind

I amend my post that my teachers were all good, professional and worked in the interest of their students. Middle school, Mr. G. Enough said.

[yodoobo]

58. Interesting point

When I think of my pool of bad teachers, the Gym teachers are quite over represented.

Not sure why that is.

[DevonRex]

25. I had one. But the rest were good. nt

[B Calm]

26. I had a troubled youth. Broken family, etc. etc. I had trouble learning,

but the last persons I would blame would be my teachers.

[Johonny]

27. have to go with no

Can't think of any horrible teacher I had. Although I guess that gym teacher that got caught fencing stolen goods was ok to fire. But frankly he was a decent performing teacher, just a bad fence apparently :)

[Zoeisright]

28. Well, I've been taught by PRIVATE school teachers who should have been fired.

Including at a very expensive private college.

[Extend a Hand]

30. yes, but I was also taught by several excellent public school teachers

that really made a difference in my life.

[ecstatic]

31. High school Trigonometry class... the teacher literally wrote gibberish on the board

never turned around to interact with students. He gave open book, group exams--nobody understood the material, so he would curve the tests as much as 80 pts. He was removed, thank goodness. We were all transferred to a class with a guy who was so good at teaching Trig that I was able to excel in Calculus before graduating. He forced us all to get involved by doing a lot of Pop quizzes, calling on everyone and describing the material in a way that made sense.

So there are great teachers, and bad ones.

[tonysam]

32. Yeah, right. Like it was the teacher's responsibility you sucked as a student. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. ...

:rofl:

[Kalyke]

33. No - but my son's fourth grade teacher (last year) shot and

paralyzed my son's principal about two months ago.

He was being fired for performance - went and got a gun, came back and shot her and our assistant principal.

Pretty traumatic day.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/mar/26/inskip-principal-grateful-help-warns-work-place-sh/?comments_id=1279611

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. How is she doing?

And the vice principal?

How is your son?

I was wondering about them just the other day and couldn't remember which DUer had a son in that school.

[Kalyke]

86. She's recovering at Shepard's Spinal Cord Rehab in Atlanta.

Still paralyzed, but learning to overcome some other adversities. Many, many, many breathing surgeries, too.

My son is doing well. The assistant principal has come back to school on a partial basis, so the kids have some "normality" now - at least they know they're both OK (even if one isn't coming back for a while, if ever).

They still hate Mark Foster with a passion though, my son, included.

Thanks for asking.

[graywarrior]

34. Hell, yeah!

At least 4 of them should gotten fired including one who was a sexist pig.

[titoresque]

35. Yes 6th grade teacher

came in from lunch stoned everyday.....didnt realize at the time. Thinking back though, I'm sure it's why he was so kicked back for the rest of the day; sucking on paperclips, and with bloodshot eyes. We rarely did any math. Being a 6th grader who personally hated math, I thought it was awesome. When I went to the 7th grade and didnt know how to do 6th grade math much less 7th grade math, it really sucked!

Also, my 4th grade teacher smoked cigars in class.

[Ready4Change]

37. Yes, but they were a small minority of all my public teachers.

Don't allow this poll to paint all public school teachers with the same brush.

The majority of my teachers were acceptable, and a few were extraordinary.

[BuelahWitch]

39. Three I can remember

Two of them were at college level.

[yellowcanine]

40. I had a Phys Ed teacher who used to whack kids with a paddle on the bare butt as they came out of

the shower. Yes he should have not only been fired but also arrested for assault. He was a lousy teacher also and a verbal as well as physical bully. I saw him verbally harass a Mennonite kid one time because his parents didn't want him to wear short pants in Phys Ed. class. Chicken shit didn't have the balls to call the kid's Dad and question him - instead he browbeat the kid for what was a parental decision in front of the whole class - thereby drawing attention to the kid and making him a target for teasing and bullying from the class shitheads for the rest of the year.

[yesphan]

41. Oh yeah !

Jr. High. This guy taught geometry but was also a gym teacher and coach. He would make all of us in
his gym class sit naked on the wooden benches in the locker room then would walk around and hit us with
his paddle on the back, belly and top of the legs. A real laugh riot. That was back when they could get away with kind of shit.

[Brickbat]

42. Yes. And I've dealt with a doctor who should have been fired for poor performance, and have been

served by public servants who should have been fired for poor performance, and have known a lawyer who should have been fired for poor performance, and supervised a journalist whom I fired for poor performance. It's amazing, there are assholes and incompetents in every profession!

[walldude]

46. Shocking isn't it...

Who knew... :rofl: :toast:

[Brickbat]

48. Fire everybody!

:hi: :toast:

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. A+

[KT2000]

45. Yes - attended an inner-city school

that was the dumping ground for the less desirable teachers.
One I had refused to talk to the class for a couple weeks.
Another (history) was in emotional stress because his child was seriously ill and spent most his time talking about life and death issues.
Another had angry fits during most classes.

There were some excellent teachers though who taught "outside the box."

[QC]

47. Public school teachers are enemies of the people. n/t

[The Midway Rebel]

49. Fired? No. Observed and retrained and mentored maybe. OTOH

I have been in lots of over crowded classes with fellow students who were so disruptive and or so behind the curve they overtaxed the teacher and interfered with the learning process.

[keroro gunsou]

50. none in grade school

just one in high school... be basically spent 15 minutes of class time berating me for daring to question his views on abortion, telling the entire class i was going to hell and i was a babykiller. after 15 minutes of it, i got up and decked him and walked down the principal's office.... told him what happened and got a measley one day suspension. methinks the principal didn't like that teacher. and i went to a catholic high school....

one of the worst things i got out of catholic school was a brain that could think (and ultimately question their dogma) and a backbone, to call them on their bullshit.

[Matariki]

51. My sixth grade teacher was a sadist and bully.

He used to enjoy hitting and humiliating kids. He liked to sneak up on kids during quiet study time and whack the back of their desks with his metal ruler because he got a kick out startling them and seeing them jump. He would punish kids by making them lean against a wall holding their weight with only their thumbs - and hit them if the had trouble maintaining that.

He would humiliate this one poor boy who was very unpopular and probably came from a poor family - he would mock the kid's clothing and other personal things about him, for no reason than to get a laugh out of the rest of the class.

He was a worthless, lousy, sadistic shit. He should have been fired and possibly arrested. Certainly never allowed near children. Hopefully he's dead by now.

[DatManFromNawlins]

52. Elementary? No. College? Absofuckinglutely

There are way too many college grad students teaching classes when they can barely speak English, accented or otherwise.

[Jakes Progress]

53. Bullshit Poll. Neocon dream.

How about have you ever known of a policeman who should be fired for poor performance? How about fireman? How about lawyer? Doctor? Congressman? Maintenance worker? Engineer? Librarian? Bricklayer? Plumber? Soldier? Pilot? Receptionist?

What a crock?

[boppers]

95. Those seem like fair questions to poll on, as well.

No job should be protected in spite of poor performance.

[Jakes Progress]

103. This is a smoke screen.

This isn't about jobs being protected. In the quest to privatize education, the neocon movement is using anecdotal crap like this poll to say that because you remember a bad teacher, all teachers and unions are bad, that we need to bring "big bidness" in to fix them. The problems with schools are not being addressed. Firing whole districts and using tax money for privatizing schools will not correct the problems that do exist. Try Berliner and Biddle's "Manufactured Crisis" as a way of seeing through the neocon haze that reagan, bennet, and company have been feeding the public.

On a second note. If you want to get rid of bad teachers you first have to know what makes a good teacher and a bad teacher. Same for any other job. For teachers they are using bogus tests that do not measure what they say they do and concentrate on discreet indicators rather than learning. If would be like if you were an insurance salesman and I sent you to sell fifty cent a day burial policies to a neighborhood of homes selling for over a million each. You don't sell policies so I fire you because you are a bad salesman. Or say you are a doctor. I measure your effectiveness by measuring the blood pressure of the entire neighbor hood surrounding your office. The tests that they are using don't do the job.

It's all just a smoke screen. It's about money, not children.

[boppers]

110. Did you see the poll about teachers who go out of their way to make a difference?

You're reading an awful lot into a poll question...

As far as the metrics being accurate, merely testing if somebody is (for example) currently at grade level for reading is a lousy metric, as it doesn't establish a change against a baseline on a granular level. Testing somebody, or a group, twice, however, to see if there's been a change for the better (or worse) after a year with a teacher (or group of them), would be a much better metric. Likewise, even better testing can break down ESL improvement, improvement in SES groups, etc.

Unfortunately, the voices screaming about having any tests or metrics *at all* often seem to drown out the voices for striving for more useful, and accurate, metrics... do use your doctor framework, it's like the AMA complaining that patient health for a doctor is irrelevant, malpractice suits are irrelevant, and that there's no way of determining who is, and isn't, a good doctor.

[Jakes Progress]

111. Assessment is more complicated than that. Much more.

I spent a good portion of my career working at state and national levels trying to determine how to accurately measure some of the elements of the education process. Quite a bit of money and even more sweat were expended by hundreds of dedicated educators in these endeavors. The end result were assessments that might approach measuring what a child has learned. Two problems were found to flaw the process.

First is that there are things that cannot be measured. With a system of high stakes testing, the curriculum and the whole purpose of schools is skewed towards those things that can be somewhat accurately measured. This emphasis results in the slow erosion of education from purposes that most people would agree should be a part of the schools into simpler and simpler snapshots of mere portions of educational growth. And that is when schools with the best of intentions spend the time and money and effort to develop and use decent tests. Even under these rare conditions, the high stakes testing program will slowly ruin the schools. And usually the best of intentions are not there.

The second, and killing, problem is cost. Those assessments that were developed that were anywhere nearly accurate in mass measurement of children's learning growth as measured against others were too expensive to continue. Developing and conducting the tests was dear, but scoring the portfolios involved huge amounts of training and infrastructure. No state would even begin to consider them.

And this only measures content knowledge with a smattering of process. Measuring teacher effectiveness is more accurately done using an assessment of delivery. Then you run into the problem of finding administrators capable of recognizing and documenting effective delivery of instruction. This brings up another cost - that of assuring equitable access and delivery standards for all children. Again the states that were willing and eager participants in the above mentioned assessment development programs ran away in droves when they contemplated the cost and complexity of assuring that all children receive equitable education. Much easier to just buy a corporation's pencil and paper two hour test. Especially when state and national government programs back this kind of system.

Access and delivery standards are the real problem with education. Simply saying that someone had a sour puss for a sixth grade history teacher doesn't approach a solution. It actually fogs the issue and increases the problem. That is the very thing neocon planners want.

Sorry if this seems a little too intense. But it is an issue that means a lot to me and one about which I am very well informed.

[boppers]

112. Impressive response. Thanks for taking the time.

Since I'm too often fooled by the belief in quantification, perhaps you could give me an example of something that cannot be reasonably quantified, but is desirable in an education system? Not too expensive, but cannot be quantified?

As far as the *costs* in doing serious, accurate, measurement, that argument I hear quite loudly, as my current work is in a possibly similarly complex field.... I'm expected to be juggling 200+ variables per output, and I get questions like "what one thing can we change to fix it all"?, without the questioner realizing that all 200 variables are deeply intertwined... so far, we "SWAG", and use a total of 12-20 variables as proxy measurements. It works, mostly, but we're deeply aware (those of us in the field) that running a full variable set would be computationally complex... up to 4,000 CPU hours per single result (and we're expected to deliver roughly 1,800 calculations a day... yeah, we don't have a supercomputer budget).

Hm.

Perhaps this exchange, though, looking at the above two paragraphs I just wrote, helps explain a lot to me, especially when I realized that the systemic flaws are the likely same in both systems, even though they are quite arguably vastly different systems (educational systems and search engine rankings). It's not that quantification is impossible, but it's hard, and expensive, so people fall back to cheaper, less accurate, systems. It's not a problem with the science, it's a problem with the budget for the science. We *could* measure down (for example) to the granularity of a teacher using different vocal intonations when conveying different messages to different students, on a per-student level, or daily diet, or any number of things, but that would take, well, lots of budget, lots of experiments, and near constant analysis and modification of results.

It's a tough problem, but at least there's a wide range of solutions between "all testing is wrong" and "only the most exacting of tests is right".

[ohheckyeah]

54. I'm sure she's dead by now.

She was old when she taught me in 1st grade. She used to hit my knuckles with a ruler when I wrote with my left hand. I lived in terror of the woman.

[branders seine]

55. back in the early Pleistocene, when I went to public school,

all my teachers were great.

Back in the dark ages, when my eldest was in second grade, her teacher sucked hard. Bad. Really awful. Otherwise, all my kids have had good teachers.

[yodoobo]

56. I had some doozies

But I also had some outstanding teachers.

So many years removed, I can easily remember the really bad ones and the really goods ones.

The ones in the middle not so much nowadays.

[Obamanaut]

57. No, but I have known several people over the years who wanted

to use food stamps to buy soft drinks or beer.

[Lilith Velkor]

66. You win the thread.

:woohoo: :party:

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. Did you also stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

:evilgrin:

[Cleita]

59. Yes, my fifth grade teacher.

We all loved her. We sang, did music, did art and played baseball all day. It was one big day care for overaged students. She taught us nothing. My mom yanked me out and put me in parochial school. I was so far behind that I had to be tutored after school and weekends to catch up.

[krabigirl]

60. Yes, both public and private school teachers. Bad teachers should be treated like any other employee

[donco6]

61. I didn't have any. But I had a nun who hated my guts.

Does that count?

[cali]

62. I guess so. I really don't remember but my parents pulled me out of

public school after first grade because they said the teacher was appallingly bad and I hadn't learned to read. I'm glad they did. They enrolled me in the John Thomas Dye school, a private school, and I had a wonderful experience. I'm convinced that much of my love of learning comes from my years there.

[BreweryYardRat]

63. Yes, but...

...there's no way in hell I'd support a mass firing of teachers just because of a single jackass. Fire the jackass.

[maxanne]

65. I had

a bad teacher or two in my 12 years of public school.

I've also had some really bad doctors and nurses in the 54 years of my life, including the doctor who berated me for breaking my ankle and asked to pray over me.

This isn't about unions. This is about probability. In 12 years of school, you're bound to get a lemon. Ditch the lemon - not the public schools.

[Libertyfirst]

67. Maxanne, you said it best! Thanks.

[uppityperson]

68. Of course. Every profession has its incompetents. Most were ok though.

Like other professions, most were ok.

[Hansel]

69. Absolutely.

I had one in 1st grade who both verbally and physically abused me because I was from a neighborhood she considered to be a "slum area". Some of my neighbors were beaten by other teachers for the same reason.

I had a teacher in 9th grade who spent nearly the entire period several times a week in the admin office while I taught his class and then slapped me with a ruler when I finally got fed up and refused to do it anymore. I was not volunteering, I was order to do it because I was the smartest in the class and he didn't want to do it. He was closing in on retirement age and was sick of teaching.

I also had many many more great teachers.

[KonaKane]

70. I had the biggest sadist in the nation for a 5th grade teacher

and I am not exaggerating.

She took great pleasure in belittling me and others in her class who sometimes outclassed her. I have never before or since seen such a revolting, loathesome, antihuman person. As much as I advocate our free education system and a friend of teachers, there are some who really should never be in the profession.

[Blue-Jay]

71. Yes. His name was Liam Gallagher and he smelled like Abe Vigoda's ballsack.

[ibegurpard]

72. yes...your point?

[gleaner]

73. No ...

My experiences with teachers was always good. This was a long time ago in the 50s and 60s. Public schools were well funded and with the Russians shooting Sputnik into space first it was resolved that they better teach us well and teach us fast, especially in math and science. My experience was positive. I was accelerated twice and had mostly AP classes in high school. They counted those for college credit too. I learned a lot from people who had a lot to teach me and the skill to get it through to me.

[Bluenorthwest]

74. No, but I can not say the same for private schools

Although most of them were also excellent, there were some exceptions.

[HooptieWagon]

79. Yes, especially in college.

Some university professors are solely interested in research and grants, and absolutely resent having to actually teach.

[Bluebear]

81. Yes, public school teachers are evil. Fire them all.

Whatever.

[Touchdown]

82. Yes, but one out of about 20 isn't really that bad of odds.

[IDemo]

83. Only one, in the 5th grade (seems to be a common point here)

A new girl in the class was picked out as somehow a freak by a couple of the perennial losers, and the teasing began. The teacher finally announced: "if I hear one more word about Stephanie, I'm going to put the offender through that door."

Sure enough, it wasn't more than a week before one of the idiots decided to test him. He made a stupid remark and the teacher marched to the student's desk, picked him up underneath the armpits, and slammed him into the door. He had to open it with one hand, but continued pushing the kid through and hauled him to the principal's office.

I was torn between feeling the moron behind the taunting had received justice and knowing the actions taken were completely out of line for a teacher, or any adult, to take.

All of my other teachers throughout K-12 were treasures, each in their own way.

[DemoTex]

84. Yes, my 5th grade teacher. She kept a flask in her desk drawer.

I was not sure about the flask at the time, only about her erratic behavior. The other 5th grade teacher, the two sixth grade teachers, and the principal took up the slack and made sure we got the whole program. This was in the 1950s, when people in the south covered for alcoholics. It was later confirmed to me by my mother, who taught at the same school later, that my 5th grade teacher did indeed keep a flask of vodka in her desk. That teacher died of the drink.

[Shell Beau]

85. I was sitting in a elementary class

for my major elementary ed. The teacher taught 5th graders that the word knapsack was pronounced snack-pack. She also told them to pronounce obstacle like ob-stack-le. Maybe that is a different pronunciation, but I was floored that this teacher was teaching these children wrong. This was only one day I sat in this class. No telling what else she taught them wrong. It always bothered me. I mentioned it to my professor. Not sure if anything was ever said.

[Scout]

87. my 9th grade typing teacher spent more time telling us about

going door to door with his poor kids, proselytizing his religion.

consistently he wasted more class time on this crap than he did even trying to teach us typing.

i guess he had tenure ... i know i complained, and i remember meeting with the principal about it, and he required a written statement, and i forget what all other hoops i was going to have to jump through... so being your average 14/15 year old i let it drop.

i wish now that i would have pursued it and gotten his ass fired.

[Dream Girl]

88. Yes many, many at my inner city jr. and high schools

Most should have been fired. They spent more time in the teacher's lounge than in the classroom and just let the kids run amok. In those five years, thre were maybe 5 or who cared at all.

[Greyhound]

89. Prior to college, all but four of my public school teachers should have been fired.

They did things to us that would have me owning the district today if my parents had been litigious.

Mr. Krager, Mr. Singletary, Mrs. Johns, and an algebra teacher who's name escapes me at the moment, were wonderful and showed me that learning can happen.

The primary American educational system is nothing more than an indoctrination in blind obedience to authority, education is a distant second.

[tabbycat31]

90. yes

my 6th grade teacher who gave me detention for "insubordination" because I did the horrible act of correcting him when he mispronounced my name.

[11 Bravo]

91. One, but I was taught by dozens who were worth ten times what they were being paid.

[Call Me Wesley]

93. Yes.

He made us listen to Oasis. x( x( x( x( x(

[arthritisR_US]

94. I said yes and have the scars to prove it. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

96. I had several.

And I can count one ONE hand -- combined -- the number of good teachers my two oldest children had/have had (one is a freshman in college; the other, a high school sophomore). My younger two have had better, but they are in IEP programs so the standards there are different.

From where I sit most teachers are too busy social-engineering to do their jobs -- teach whatever subject it is they're teaching. I have no problem at all going against the union on this and weeding out those who are poor performers, and I would think that most exceptional instructors would be of the same mind as well.

[hunter]

97. In some places it's a miracle we have any competent teachers.

And this has everything to do with the altruism of people who have the calling to teach, and nothing at all to do with working conditions, unions, pay or politics.

In some places any teacher who is willing to show up day after day and simply keep the kids in their seats is damn near a saint.

I've been in schools where people who thought they were competent were utterly destroyed, their souls corroding in the chaos.

Wherever there's a school with an unusual number of ineffective zomby teachers there are usually reasons for this having little to do with the teachers trapped in the horrible situation. Too weak to thrive, too strong to die. It's like a perfect hell.

Even "Stand and Deliver" Jaime Escalante found himself in grim situations where he had no power to teach.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

98. I definitely would have chosen yours. Please reread what you wrote in regard to tense.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

101. No such thing as a bad student

only a bad teacher??? :-)

sP

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

102. .....

:rofl:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

99. I don't think any of them should have been fired but should have been talked to.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

100. just one nugget from that teacher...

She always insisted that the 'south' in South Africa was not to be capitalized because 'south' is a direction and you do not capitalize directions. Just one example from many from her...

Many MANY more did a good job...

sP

[freddie mertz]

104. Blame the teacher, rely on anecdotal evidence, appeal to resentment.

Got it.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

105. No

But in JRHS and HS I did avoid coaches

[FraRohr]

106. Teachers

The worst two where Second Grade and Fifth . Second before I was tested and found to have a learning disability. Before it was acceptable to have any disabilities . Fifth Grade because he resented having to work with my parents , a specialist and a special education teacher. Two more that stick out was another Fifth and Sixth through Seventh . They where not bad teachers just people I think where expected to major in education and became teachers because of family pressure. However, High I had some great teachers.

[rucky]

107. Just one, out of dozens.

[etherealtruth]

108. Of course i have and so have my children ...

We've all also had teachers that were incredibly wonderful .... most fell somewhere in between. True for any profession.

[WilliamPitt]

109. Several.

[TexasObserver]

114. Yes, but there's a difference between targeting bad teachers and targeting bad schools.

The basic argument for these strident measures is the untrue belief that the bottom ten percent like being there. If their districts had money and kids from enriched learning homes, they could do wonders, of course.

Punishing all the teachers in a school is like making everyone stay after class because one person misbehaved.

[Iggo]

115. The only public school teacher who I thought was truly incompetent...

...you know, way back when I was a 14 yr old expert, was by all other accounts a real decent and real popular teacher. He was a rookie, teaching three 10th grade Social Studies classes. Everyone in my class hated him and thought he was a complete idiot. Everyone in the other two classes thought he was the greatest. It was weird realizing that we just turned on him early and never gave him a chance. It was a good lesson.

[Mopar151]

116. After freshman year in HS

I gamed the incompetent guidance department to avoid the incompetent ones - when I showed up with my schedule all figured out, they were more than happy to approve it. My ne'er do well buddies bought their English grades with booze - but they got value, the guy was a pretty good teacher, but a lush. And several were standouts - they had to love teaching, to do it for the short money they got.