Obama Goes After McCain Over Offshore Oil Drilling - June 18, 2008

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Senator Obama is attacking Senator McCain over the Republican's call to lift a ban on offshore oil drilling, accusing him of flip-flopping from his support of the moratorium in 2000. Mr. McCain during a speech in Houston yesterday argued that it would help America decrease its dependence on foreign oil in the short term. "John McCain's support of the moratorium on offshore drilling during his first presidential campaign was certainly laudable," Mr. Obama said in a statement, "but his decision to completely change his position and tell a group of Houston oil executives exactly what they wanted to hear today was the same Washington politics that has prevented us from achieving energy independence for decades." The presumptive Democratic nominee also criticized Mr. McCain's opposition to a windfall profits tax on oil companies, and his campaign pointed out that as recently as last month, the Arizona senator said he was open to considering the idea.

http://www.nysun.com/national/obama-goes-after-mccain-over-offshore-oil-drilling/80202

The more things change...

[n2doc]

1. Well, we did get change

Obama changed....

[daa]

23. Drill Here Drill NOW!!!!! nt

[grahamhgreen]

76. Zing!

[trumad]

2. Ahh the NY Sun

great rag--- Not.

[no limit]

3. So you are telling me Obama never said this? You really gonna stake your reputation on this?

Jesus fucking christ, the denial some of you people are in is unbelievable.

[trumad]

6. Of course he said it...

It's in quote isn't it.

I'm just saying the NY Sun is a neocon piece of shit rag?

Do you deny that?

[no limit]

8. What in the world does that have to do with anything I posted in the OP?

Why the distraction on your part?

[trumad]

15. It has everything to do with it...

Obama changed his mind---BFD...

There are about 50 other respected news rags out there who posted this quote but you pick the fucking Sun...

[no limit]

34. I picked the sun because it's the first link that came up when I searched for that

because I damn well remember this conversation from summer 2008. The source was not the issue, he was quoted. Even you didn't dispute that this was 100% accurate. So what was the point of you trying to distract?

[court jester]

61. You know, if everyone is just going to agree that the candidates for our representation can just lie

and say anything the frack they want, then do the opposite,

The least we could do is shorten the lying season.

6 weeks, or 76 (like 1776) days or 666 hours or something.

The money saved could bail out more wealthy corporations.
And the US could afford to hire more IRS agents, to keep us
buying Health Insurance.

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. It's not LYING, it's a "mind change".

I think Obama is entitled to at least one of those each day.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

80. Do you always "kill the messenger"

are you denying the facts of the OP?

[amborin]

79. incredible

just like the denying that Obama ran on the PO

[joeybee12]

10. Yeah, don't talk about the capitualtion-yet again-by Obama--try and change the subject...n/t

[NJmaverick]

18. Was "capitulation" on your word of the day calendar?

[QC]

25. Was "intellectual dishonesty" on your word of the decade calendar? n/t

[NJmaverick]

29. Intellectual honesty should be more than just a word to you

it's a way we should all strive to conduct ourselves

[QC]

36. So why do you use it as a meaningless catch-phrase with which to attack

anyone who has the unmitigated gall to say that there might be some things in the world more important than whether our team wins?

Frankly, you do not have any room to accuse someone of arguing badly...or repeating a word too much.

[NJmaverick]

37. Again you should consider intellectual honest as more than just a catch phrase

it's what should guide your decisions and what the approach you take when you form your opinions. You can't just consider intellectual honesty as just another word or a catchy phrase.

[NJmaverick]

4. Here we go again

just like Health Care Reform. The far left is going to try and paint President Obama as a puppet of big oil while the right will paint him as a tree hugging liberal.

In the end both claims will be proven false. What one will find is a President guided by common sense rather than rigid ideology who is trying to balance environmental concerns with the need to reduce our nations crippling and dangerous dependence on imported energy.

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5. So Obama never said this? The Sun made it up?

[NJmaverick]

9. Don't play coy, it's quite clear what your goals are

[no limit]

14. My goals? I posted a FUCKING QUOTE from Obama in June of 2008

And you are going to preach about my goals? Yes, I have goals. Progressive goals. You can call them values. You on the other hand are willing to sell out everything you believe because some guy you never met with a (D) after his name told you to.

[NJmaverick]

16. I don't blindly follow a rigid ideology

rather my values and beliefs (which many would label liberal) drive my pragmatic approach in getting things done. You can curse and cap locks all you want but it will not make you any less wrong.

[howard112211]

26. Telling a lie is not the same as pragmatism.

If his position on offshore drilling is such, why didn't he say so? I'm open to arguments of the benefits of
this particular policy, but not to saying A and doing B.

[no limit]

28. Which of your liberal values are you not willing to compromise?

Gay rights? Are you willing to throw those away to get things done?

The public option? You willing to throw that away to get things done?

How about torture? You willing to change your position on that?

Name me one value you will not sacrafice in the name of getting things done? I think it was Jon Stewert that said if you are willing to sacrifice a value then it's not a value.

[NJmaverick]

31. You have a flawed way of looking at the world

values are not something that should prevent progress, they are the compass that directs your progress. Instead of making values a useful tool you have created a prison with them.

[no limit]

33. So your answer is there is nothing Obama could ever do to disappoint you?

as long as he makes the argument that he is doing it to get things done? What is he getting done exactly?

[NJmaverick]

39. I have had some minor disappointments

However seeing how the right wingers (and sadly many on the supposed left) have made it their self appointed task to magnify and amplify every perceived failing, I have little need to focus on them. From the big picture I have seen little that I am unhappy about. Then again, I appreciate the political constraints that any president or politician operates under.

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40. Lets just have you on record for a few things if you dont mind so we can look back on this post

What if DADT isn't repealed within a year. Will that be a minor or a major disappointment to you?

What if we find out in the next few years that there is still torture happening under this administration? How big of a disappointment would that be to you?

What if by the time of his next election Obama still hasn't closed gitmo? How big of a disappointment would that be for you?

What if strong financial regulations are never passed under this administration? Just watered down regulations that don't change the major parts of the system?

[NJmaverick]

42. Now you are playing the "what if" game? Come on now

we need to deal with the real world not a construct of conjecture.

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43. Yes, I have to play the what if game with you. Cause if I don't you'll keep moving the goal posts.

Can you please give me an honest answer to all these things. It won't take you very long and then we can bookmark this post for later. Because I have a feeling most of what I said there will turn out to be true, and I would hate for you to come back when they turn out to be true and tell me they aren't a big deal.

[NJmaverick]

44. The whole goal post analogy is one of the worst ones to use in politics

the world is a very complex and dynamic situation. This isn't a game of football with concise rules and static goals. It's the real world which is complex and changing. Progress should be measure in movement in the correct direction rather than creating some sort of arbitrary check list of specific agenda items.

To make your sports analogy more appropriate you would have to say there are goal posts, a net, a hoop, bases and finish line and that you have only so many players and it's impossible to achieve all of them at once and all of the rules are subject to change with out notice and new goals and required ways of scoring will be added and others removed with out notice.

For example a politician could have had a great plan to achieve a goal and had executed it with perfection, but at the one yard line the economic meltdown occurs and suddenly you need to hit a home run before you can score your touchdown.

So to sum it up the whole goal post scoring analogy is far too simplistic to be used when talking about the national political agenda.

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45. So to sum it up nothing Obama could ever do would make you not support him

The things I pointed to are very simple progressive values. And you can't even admit that they are important to you because you have the same feeling that I do, that Obama will disappoint in that regard.

[NJmaverick]

46. Once again you are wrong. If the President was to change the way

he has conducted his presidency, since coming into office, I would be very upset. However he has been very consistent in what he is doing and how he is doing it (which is consistent with how he say he would govern).

[no limit]

48. What if DADT isn't repealed within a year? What if gitmo isn't closed by the end of his 1st term?

What if we find out the administration is still using torture?

You can't answer these simple things?

[Ignis]

59. The simple answer is continuous blind support--regardless of policy.

Personally, I disagree with this approach. :thumbsdown:

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67. And this person seems to have the same feeling, that most of my "what ifs" will be true

and that doesn't bother him/her and they dont want to answer so their hypocrisy isn't pointed out later.

[Ignis]

68. The best you can hope for is to be told, "Let the adults handle this."

It gets old quickly, doesn't it?

[no limit]

69. It just drives me crazy. Instead of cheering for the american people they cheer for some guy

no matter what that guy does it's ok because there is a (D) after his name. The amount of people hurt by his policies don't matter, as long as the team wins. It's really sickening.

[Ignis]

70. The past 8 years have really done a number on our collective psyche.

This blurring of lines between sports-team tribalism and policy-based politics is abhorrent, but we've always suffered from too much of a "Big Daddy" approach to the presidency in America.

Politicians are only as laudable as their actions merit.

[Ignis]

56. Supporting gay rights and opposing torture is a "prison?"

That's crazy talk. :freak:

[bvar22]

71. VALUES are what determines Progress.

Without VALUES, or with "negotiable" values, there is only movement....not direction.
I can understand WHY you and other Centrist/Pragmatists get confused.
It is easy to mistake "movement" for "Progress" when you have no values.

Here are some "values".

"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.
"--FDR

If you accept these traditional "Democratic Values", it is hard to argue that we are making "progress", or achieving anything "pragmatic" by moving AWAY from them.

[QC]

19. +1

[Bluebear]

You can't use actual quotes with "ignored"

Whoever that is.

[Ignis]

75. .

[Bluebear]

74. You can't use actual quotes with "ignored"

Whoever that is.

[joeybee12]

7. Here we go again, blindly believing lies and capitulation...n/t

[NJmaverick]

13. LOL! We are all dazzled by your sheer brilliance and your

ability to see what the rest of us are unable to witness. :rofl:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. "The far left"

:rofl:

[Ignis]

58. That'd be anyone to the left of Genghis Khan, I think.

You know: DUers. :D

[grahamhgreen]

35. Here we go again - Framing the issue in a way that ignores a pro-corporate agenda -

It's not about Right vs Left, it's about pro-corporate anti-environmentalism vs common sense and unlimited energy.

[NJmaverick]

41. I framed it taking into account our national agenda of what's best for the Country

if you want to try and create a framing that serves your personal anti-corporate agenda you can, but it will not be very useful or particularly enlightening

[grahamhgreen]

47. Nice effort but the real issue is do corporations win (oil) or the people (renewables).

[Ignis]

60. blah blah Middle blah Maturity blah Reality blah Votes blah blah

Just filling in, in case you don't receive a reply. :hi:

[Bluebear]

77. +

[blindpig]

52. Ah yes

"The business of America is business" Calvin Coolidge. Mebbe there is reincarnation.

THAT is the 'national agenda'. Fuck the people, fuck the environment, what do those quarterlies look like?

Tear it down.

[frazzled]

11. This was not really unexpected, if you were listening

The Obama administration’s plan adopts some drilling proposals floated by President George W. Bush near the end of his tenure, including opening much of the Atlantic and Arctic Coasts. Those proposals were challenged in court on environmental grounds and set aside by President Obama shortly after he took office.

Unlike the Bush plan, however, Mr. Obama’s proposal would put Bristol Bay, home to major Alaskan commercial fisheries and populations of endangered whales, off limits to oil rigs.

Actual drilling in much of the newly opened areas, if it takes place, would not begin for years.

Mr. Obama said several times during his presidential campaign that he supported expanded offshore drilling. He noted in his State of the Union address in January that weaning the country from imported oil would require “tough decisions about opening new offshore areas for oil and gas development.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/science/earth/31energy.html?hp

So, he said it during his campaign and he signaled it during the State of the Union. I don't particularly agree or understand the full implications, but the Sun's implication that this is a total turnaround is untrue.

[tammywammy]

12. Obama shifts on oil drilling?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/01/obama-shifts-on-oil-drilling/?fbid=IGSn-IIQv92

Obama shifts on oil drilling?

ORLANDO, Florida (CNN) – Barack Obama said Friday that he would be willing to compromise on his position against offshore oil drilling if it were part of a more overarching strategy to lower energy costs.

“My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama told The Palm Beach Post early into a two-day swing through Florida.

"If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage – I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done," Obama said.

-snip-

But Friday Obama admitted that something is better than nothing and praised a bipartisan energy plan from the Senate that combines alternative energy innovation, financial, nuclear energy and drilling proposals. He noted he is still skeptical about drilling’s potential to lower gas prices or reduce dependence on foreign oil.

“The Republicans and the oil companies have been really beating the drums on drilling," Obama said in the interview with the Florida paper, "and so we don't want gridlock. We want to get something done.”

-snip-

[Tippy]

17. My gosh I am sure glad we have a President that takes the bull by the horns..

First all we heard was where is the Change? Obama is hitting his stride.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4327171

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. This quote is at several sites. Here is the link to CNN

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/17/news/economy/mccain_energy/index.htm

[CBR]

22. He shifted his position two months later (August 2008) after

reviewing a congressional proposal. This is not new. A review of proposals often leads to shifting positions.

[cal04]

49. he did and here's some news from August 08

McCain joins Obama on offshore drilling
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/world/americas/03iht-campaign.4.14970427.html?_r=1


Obama Shows New Openness to Offshore Oil Drilling
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/08/04/obama-shows-new-openness-to-offshore-oil-drilling.html

Obama shifts on oil drilling?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/01/obama-shifts-on-oil-drilling/?fbid=uKKzBbg7zlQ

[Karmadillo]

24. I liked him better when he spent his time voting "Present!"

nt

[Upton]

27. I liked him better before he was president too..

[global1]

30. Didn't McCain Just Say He's Not Going To Cooperate With Obama & The Dems On Anything......

going forward. How will he react to this 'oil drilling' now?

[Karmadillo]

32. If we do not seriously primary this administration, we deserve whatever we get.

nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. It's the famous "Cave to the Corporations" Gambit of Grand Master's Chess.

Much implemented by Grand Master Clinton under the rubric of "Triangulation" now perfected by Ultra Grand Master Obama.

[Ignis]

66. It's obviously beyond our limited comprehension.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=255629&mesg_id=255916

[BrklynLiberal]

50. bullshit..plain and simple...

[wisteria]

51. Yeah, but the talking point for the Repubs is this new drilling does not go far enough.

There is no conpromise with Repubs-they want everything their way. I hope people realize this.

[Individualist]

53. K&R

[Bluebear]

78. .

[asdjrocky]

54. Ding! Ding! And mother fucking DING!

It's the new middle right.

[dgibby]

55. I was against this when Bush wanted to do it,

and I'm still against it. I don't care what letter you have behind your name.

[amborin]

57. KNR just like he went after McCain on the excise tax on middle class health plans.....

[Better Believe It]

62. I was against it before I was for it and I was for it before I was against it.

Have I made my principals clear enough for everyone?

[Ignis]

65. No need to take such a strong, decisive stand just yet!

Let's see what the polls say....

[tedk_355]

64. so much for change

[Ignis]

72. A kick for an inconvenient quote.

:kick:

[bvar22]

73. Brilliant Chess Move !!!

By moving far to The Right, and implementing Republican Policy, it leaves nothing for the Republicans to run on.
Huge WIN for Our Team, and don't forget the Homecoming Dance!
Where is the "Mission Accomplished Parade"?
I'm ready to march to whatever tune Our Side plays!!!
Who cares about bullshit stuff like Bad Policy when Our TEAM gets a "pragmatic" WIN!!!
:party:

Chess:
A game where the Pawns are sacrificed to protect the Royalty.
.
.
.
Really Sucks if you are a Working Class pawn.