My recent confession attempt at The Shrine of "Divine Mercy"

[mdmc]

My local npr station has been covering the recent accusations against the Pope.
Seems like Ratsy has a position that forgiveness of Bishops that hide pedophilia was more or less part of Church Doctrine; automatic (forgiveness) in a sense.

Cut to my recent attempt of being forgiven of my sins via Confession at The Shrine of Divine Mercy. The priest informed me that I could not be forgiven for any of my sins because I was currently involved in a sexual relationship outside of marriage. He refused to forgive any of my sins, even those that were not related to my current relationship (like not honoring my parents, wasting time, taking the Lord's name in vain).

Ain't that something? All this at http://thedivinemercy.org/shrine / The Shrine of Divine Mercy. Oh, the irony..

[brendan120678]

1. Umm...so you were requesting to be absolved...

of your sins, but admitted that you were planning to continue sinning?

One of the requirements of absolution is to make a promise to try and "sin no more."

[mdmc]

5. pretty much ..

I am willing to try no more sex outside of marriage - I understand it is "sinful"..
I also had problems as I support reproductive rights and I have no intention of reversing that position.

So I don't take the Eucharist..

But why would the sex-crime-hiding Bishops be forgiven automatically for their sin when their sin is doctrine policy? doctrine policy that the Bishops followed (and were automatically forgiven for - automatically - no need to confess) and that they were instructed to continue following?

[ShortnFiery]

9. Wow! Automatic forgiveness doesn't seem right ... morally sound for THESE ACTS.

:(

I don't take the Eucharist but I feel so "estranged" as I sit in place and NOTE the glimpses of seemingly "everyone else" lining up to receive this Sacrament. I know that I shouldn't feel bad and that I'm doing the right thing after searching my conscious but ...

well, I can't even muster up enough courage to attend Mass any longer.
I feel like an outcast within my own beloved faith.

[mdmc]

13. My priest thinks I should take communion

He allows our NY State Senator to take confession even though he is divorced and re-married.

I don't take the Eucharist due to my support for reproductive rights.

I still feel "Catholic". I still draw a great deal of comfort from my religion..

[ShortnFiery]

17. Yes, you must do what you feel is correct.

However, there are many Catholics, including myself, who do not confess our support for birth control - I would never have converted to Catholicism if that would have been a requirement.

I am PERSONALLY pro-life but my POLITICAL beliefs diverge as I vote for Pro-Choice (including legal abortion rights) liberal democrats. I believe wholeheartedly in the separation of Church and State.

FWIW, I think that you have many "kindred souls" with regard to support for reproductive rights within the Catholic Church patrons. :shrug:

[chemenger]

34. Because they are of the red beanies & pointy-hats clique and you're NOT!!!

Responding to your question ... "But why would the sex-crime-hiding Bishops be forgiven automatically for their sin when their sin is doctrine policy? doctrine policy that the Bishops followed (and were automatically forgiven for - automatically - no need to confess) and that they were instructed to continue following?"

[mdmc]

39. or cause their sins cost the church cash

..

[mdmc]

7. I also have a hard time "honoring thy father" and attending Mass weekly

I recognize that both are sinful, but I struggle to rectify my behavior. I want to avoid these sins, but constantly fail to do so.

[mmonk]

2. Those in positions of power seldom apply the rules to themselves

they require of others.

[ShortnFiery]

3. Thanks for this.

I haven't been to confession in over a year. But I'll admit that I never confessed to using birth control. :blush:

A close older woman friend of mine told me how she had to Priest-shop (confess to two different Priests) in order to be atoned for her use of birth control after bearing FOUR children.

I thought the Military was backward, but after I converted to Catholicism in 1996, I've come to the conclusion that the Catholic hierarchy is seriously out of touch with the trials and tribulations of their flock. :(

[KittyWampus]

4. since you obviously don't care about absolution for your stated "sin", why bother confessing it?

It doesn't seem you even think you are engaging in sin.

So you just did this to harass a priest?

I guess he had it coming.

[ShortnFiery]

6. We don't know what is in mdmc's heart or the specifics of his Confession.

Divine Mercy? Let's ponder that beautiful concept instead?

[mdmc]

11. No, I do agree that I engage in sin. I was looking for forgiveness

I was less interested in stopping my support for reproductive rights. I don't think my support of reproductive rights is sinful (although I do admit that my use of these contraceptions is sinful).
I admit that my pre-marital relationship is sinful.
Perhaps I could have been forgiven and been in a state of Grace until I sinned again? Then I could return to confession..

My intention of confessing was to be forgiven and be able to take part in the Eucharist. I didn't mean to waste the time of the priest.

[DFW]

37. It doesn't sound like you're very sinful to me

Ergo, ego te absolvo.

At least somebody is willing to do it!

[panader0]

8. I was once convinced by an old flame to attend a mass with her.

When it came time for the bread and wine part, I unknowingly went to the altar with the others. I was on my knees, eyes closed, waiting for the wafer. The priest held it out, almost on my tongue, then quickly withdrew it saying, "You are not confirmed."
I got up, left, and haven't been to church since (except for a few funerals.)

[ShortnFiery]

10. Whoa! Her church keeps track? That's interesting as well as a little creepy.

My mother drives her Catholic buddies to Church Each Saturday and takes the Eucharist although she's baptized Methodist. The priest in this elderly community offers it to ALL who come forth to the alter, WITHOUT QUESTION.

Her church is truly loving and if her Catholic Buddies can't find it in their hearts to correct her, I'm not about to ... IMO, if you've lived a moral life, then beginning at the age 80 you should be able to be a member of all faiths. Covering all one's bases faith-wise is not a bad idea as one ages? :blush:

[Berry Cool]

16. Technically, Catholic churches are not supposed to offer the Eucharist to just anyone,

but only to those who are baptized Catholics who have already made their first communion and who are not behind on their confession (OK, I admit I'm not Catholic but that's how I understand it--Catholics, please correct me if I am wrong). Some other Christian churches are far more open. Some offer Communion to anyone who believes that the bread and wine of Communion are truly the body and blood of Christ--doesn't matter what church you belong to or whether you formally belong to a church, or have had education beforehand on the topic--they will even give it to very young kids. Some will only have the minister give a "blessing" to children who haven't yet received instruction on Communion. It depends. But regardless, there's no issues regarding when you made your last confession or whether you did your penance or whatever, because those churches have no formal confession and no penance.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Understood. The Catholic Church is very strict with regard to "rules."

However, in practice, you'd be surprised at how flexible individual Parish Priests can be. I'm certain that my mother is not the only elderly lady who receives the Eucharist without ever being baptized and confirmed "a Catholic." However, with a parish full of elderly patrons to Mass, they are NOT going to make an issue to sort them out. ;)

[Berry Cool]

23. So I understand.

I admit, I find it hard to understand how a person of liberal mind can be a Catholic in today's world. I'm glad I've never had to confront that issue because it's not the church I was raised in. I find it hard enough confronting the differences between the church I WAS raised in and what I believe.

[ShortnFiery]

28. It's hard, especially when you are within a Parish chock full of conservative Catholics ...

who would not hesitate to disparage me for not "setting my elderly mother straight." To conservative catholics, THE RULES are to be strictly followed without question. Not only that, we are to correct those who sin. However, I'm what might be termed a Franciscan, but far from an ideal example. Way far. :blush: I believe that we personally must strive to set the example. Our faith should be spread by striving to live our faith and NOT by proselyting to other.

http://www.franciscans.org/franciscanspirituality.cfm

Is it difficult to be a liberal Catholic? Yes, very painful at times to hold onto my faith. However, I find solace in my membership within Catholic Peace Organizations such as Pax Christi. I'm a big time sinning and not "a model" Catholic by any stretch of the imagination, but I still acknowledge the faith. Why? Because, to me, it's beautiful path, although it's not The Way for all.

http://www.paxchristiusa.org/

[chemenger]

36. You know your Boston Catechism.

You're a better Catholic than I am (and I'm a baptized/confirmed ... but non-believing ... Catholic).

Never could understand why belief in God (or gods, divine being, savior, creator, whatever) has to be wrapped up in so much BS.

[lazer47]

12. I am also Catholic and face the same problem,,,,

I have been married more than once and can't take the Eucharist, you don't need the priest, if you are serious develop a personal relationship with the Father thru. prayer,,, I have long since given up on the church and mans teachings and adopted the actual teachings of our Father.....

[ShortnFiery]

15. I fully agree.

Walking the walk - attempting to be close to Christ by following his teachings is the best way to live. I miss the community of my Parish, but Christian (Christ-like) behavior need not require faith in ONE organized religion but by our actions. My dad was agnostic his entire life, but I have no doubt that he is at Peace with God in Heaven. He was that moral and kind, he could not have been denied. :shrug:

[Berry Cool]

20. That's yet another limitation Catholics place on Eucharist, yes.

All this stuff about, are you divorced, how many spouses have you had, do you believe in abortion, yadda yadda. I am not trying to discourage anyone from being Catholic if that's what you want to be, but you need to accept that if you're Catholic, you're going to be part of a religion that is very exclusive about who it allows to do certain things, and has lots of rules and regulations that you must follow or else. Some people find that rigidity comforting. Others find it confining and have noted that the Bible said nothing on many of these topics that are regarded as rigid rules in the Catholic Church--that many of its strictest rules were created by men, not God. They choose to leave.

A couple who were friends of my mother's abandoned Catholicism because of the death of a parent--the idea that the man had to worry about whether his father was in Heaven or had only made it to Purgatory was deeply discomfiting to them. My mother pointed out that the Bible doesn't describe a place called Purgatory and never claims that people's souls go anywhere after death other than Heaven or Hell. She also said that in her church there was no matter of whether one had been "good" enough to get into Heaven because all who believed in Jesus as their Savior got in. This was far more comforting to them than the idea that one has to go to some way station after death in order to have it determined whether you're good enough for Heaven, bad enough for Hell or need to have more people say prayers for you on earth in order to get to Heaven.

There are a lot of people who find anything about Christianity, even the ideas of Heaven and Hell and that Jesus forgives all sin, stuff and nonsense. But if you don't, you may not need to leave Christianity, you just may need one that follows more closely the relatively barebones rules of the Bible, vs. the very strict and thick book of rules and regulations in the Roman Catholic Church.

[mdmc]

24. I returned to the Church after an extensive study / practice of Buddhism

I still draw a great deal of comfort from the Church, but don't care much for the dogma..

[Berry Cool]

14. Well, you could conclude that Catholicism is not for you.

There are other Christian religions that don't even believe things like sex outside of marriage or birth control are sins. There are other Christian religions that believe your sins are a matter between you and God, and you don't have to confess them to a third party, nor is that third party required in order for you to receive absolution. There are other Christian religions that hold that because Christ died on the cross for you, your TRUE sins are automatically forgiven. You don't even need to confess them to God. Of course, if you're a conscientious person who values that gift, you will examine your actions and you will be aware of when you've done something wrong, and you will be aware of it and acknowledge that without that forgiveness you have nothing.

Jesus said to many people he met, "Your sins are forgiven." Many of those people were not confessing sins to him. They were merely sick or lame. But he said "Your sins are forgiven," and then he told them to rise up, healed.

If you are a Christian and you believe in the power of Christ to absolve your sins, and you are willing to forgive in turn as you have been forgiven, that's all it takes for you to receive forgiveness. Are you then expected to try your best to go and sin no more? Yes. But of course, you're human, and everyone fails and needs to be forgiven again.

I do think that if you truly want to live with someone and have a sexual relationship outside of marriage, you're not going to remain happy in the Catholic Church in the long run. You're better off finding a church that doesn't regard such an action as sinful in the first place. Otherwise, if you insist on remaining Catholic, yeah--you have to stop having sex outside marriage. But do note that that's Catholic church dogma dictating this as being sinful; the Bible doesn't say it is, and some Christian religions don't regard it as such.

[mdmc]

25. Thanks for the reply

We plan to get married and have our reception at our church..
I still get a great deal of comfort from my church and plan to remain an active Catholic. I just don't dig on the dogma..

[Ian David]

19. Find a new religion.

If you're not willing to go cold-turkey and become an Atheist, here are some suggestions:

UUA: Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations
Unitarian Universalism, a liberal religious tradition, encourages us to keep open minds, believing that personal experience, conscience, and reason should ...
Congregations
www.uua.org/ -

United Church of Christ
Official web site of the UCC. Includes faith testimonies, global ministries, and a means to find a church in a specific locality. Weekly news, mailing list, ...
www.ucc.org

Jewish Reconstructionist Federation - Home | Jewish ...
Basic Web resource for this view of the ever-evolving heritage of the Jewish People.
www.jrf.org/

But seriously, dude...

Council for Secular Humanism
Online home of the Council for Secular Humanism, serving secular humanists, atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, and all those ...
www.secularhumanism.org/

Now go, and be silly no more.

[Berry Cool]

21. Are you implying that if the OP stays in a religion, it's silly?

I hope not, because that would be terribly intolerant.

[Ian David]

22. I think all religion is silly. n/t

[mdmc]

26. I often joke with my priest about joining a less evil church

One that doesn't hate gays and such..

There is an old Simpson's line/joke:
Homer: "Oh no. I hope this car has airbags!"
Ned Flanders: "It doesn't! The Church opposes them for some reason!"

[Ian David]

27. That's how The Free Market works. Why joke about leaving?

If your spouse or partner was abusing you, would it be a "joke" to leave them for someone who doesn't beat the shit out of you?

Why should you pay good money and waste your time being abused by a church that hates you?

[ShortnFiery]

29. Because faith is a spiritual journey, not a commodity like purchasing an iPod.

:shrug:

The Church (many Parishes at least) as well as The Faith are BEAUTIFUL. It's the humans, mostly men within the hierarchy that are messing "the practice" up in horrific ways.

Just because there's rampant misconduct within our faith, does not mean that we should QUIT.

Besides, I have it on good authority that "God hates a quitter." <tongue-in-cheek>

[mdmc]

31. I don't leave because I am Catholic

Someday perhaps my wisdom tradition will be where I need it to be. Right now I have many disagreements with the Church. I also consider myself a member of the Democratic Party, although I often find the party far too influenced by corporations and not supportive enough of working people..
The Green Party (or the Unitarians) are more my style, but yet I remain a Catholic Democrat..

[alarimer]

30. Personally, I don't believe in sin.

Therefore, I do not need absolution, especially from a priest.

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints"

[End Of The Road]

32. Become an Episcopalian, receive forgiveness, and carry on! n/t

[mdmc]

33. nice avatar

Hot Shot!

[MattBaggins]

35. Or Atheism and use reason and logic to determine right and wrong

You can even go to the people you have hurt for forgiveness rather than some guy who claims to be a middle man.

[mdmc]

38. My study of buddhism led me to return to the church

I still derive a lot of comfort from the Catholic Church..

[Echo In Light]

40. "The Electrifying Church Of The New Light"

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oYwdoKYtN58/SWoll_pXGgI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/c9WTz1dU9CY/s200/500+Ft.+Of+Pipe+-+Dope+Deal.jpg

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