So, we still want to be a consumer-driven economy buying doodads that

[Skidmore]

all have twinkly vampire lights and digital timers on them and we want to turn them on from everywhere in the house. We want to have foods that cannot be grown in our own climate zones in season or out. We want 15 kinds of coffee to choose from, each with it's own "tones" or "notes" or whatever. We want no part of public transportation, except in the very large cities. We want...we want...we want............


.....everything.....


BUT

We DON'T want to foul our own nests. It's okay to go elsewhere for energy resources and muck up some other nation's environment. Right? Why should we suffer any loss or pain? As long as we consume greater resources than any other nation on earth, I think we should be prepared to use some of our own energy sources, and maybe even foul our nest a bit. I'm so sick of some of the insistence that our environment is somehow more valuable than that in another nation and I'm sick of the wars that are ripping the world apart because we are too busy fighting for control of resources under some other nation's land. Do those factors enter the equation for anyone else?

[villager]

1. Um, some of us are already off the buying doodads treadmill...

...and don't really want society stuck there, either...

[Skidmore]

5. So address the issue

of fouling the rest of the world's nest.

[villager]

22. ergo, as you can doubtless deduce, we wish to see no nests fouled

...here in America, given the paving, deforestation, and paving through of wilderness areas, we've had quite a bit of nest-fouling already, thanks!

[Mme. Defarge]

2. Isn't that what democracy is all about --

the right to consume without limits and without consequences? How else would we define happiness? :sarcasm:

[Skidmore]

7. That's what capitalism is all about; Don't conflate an economic model

with a political system.

[JuniperLea]

3. Our "wants" have been artificially inflated...

Along with our housing, our banking, our investments, etc.

Oh, and someone needs to tell the fat cat CEO's that THEIR salaries have been artificially inflated as well, so when our housing and stock values go down, so should their salaries and bonuses!

But, no. Instead, we get increases in the price of gasoline, food, electricity... and let's not forget health insurance. God forbid these jackels be forced to lower their artificially inflated expectations!

[obxhead]

4. Yes, by all means we must drill for more oil to export.

thats the ticket, destroy our shores and coastlines so that the oil companies have more product to export.

The reality is, further drilling off our coasts will not help stop using from foreign oil. We trade our low quality crude away, and import the higher quality middle eastern oil. The oil companies will gain more profit, and we'll still get to fight those good old wars too. It's a win for everyone that counts.

[Skidmore]

9. Ah, yes, That is such a morally cohesive argument.

Others in the world want to live as cannon fodder for our energy needs. We are indeed morally superior and how can we possibly deny them their need to be trod upon and exploited?

[obxhead]

21. So as long as we destroy our coast lines as well it makes it all ok...

yeah, thats a sound argument.

[Iggo]

6. Inertia.

It's not that we want to. It's just that that's what we do. We need to be acted upon, know'm say'n?

[tedk_355]

8. Good points

[backtoblue]

10. we're losing our ability to simply survive without mass production...

our consuming is out of control.

[The_Commonist]

11. Excellent questions...

So, what are you doing about it?

[Skidmore]

12. Actually, we live pretty frugally.

Our vehicles are older and kept in good repair. Our home has been weatherproofed. We recycle endlessly and I don't mean just plastic bottles or metal cans. Most of my home is furnished with used furniture... things others threw away, probably to buy something new. We grow a garden every year and store food for winter. We compost and do not use chemical fertilizers. Don't till but weed by hand. We purchase our meat from local farmers and know how those animals were cared for and processed. In the evening, you will not find every light on in our house. You will find a lamp and the television on in the one room and bedtime comes at 8 pm for us. All the incandescent bulbs in the house have been replaced with flourescent ones. We unplug the electronics in the guest room when we have no guests. We buy clothes that are not synthetic and are made to last because we do not change clothing with the fads, only the seasons, and those come from the closet usually and not the store. We only replace something when it can no longer be repaired. We buy organic or plant based cleaning products. We bought a large box of cloth utility rags and use those for everything from drying dishes to scrubbing cloths to sewing mop pads to clean the floors. I could go on and on. We make a conscious effort to live within our means and to not put a burden on the community or the environment. We constantly are seeking new ways to conserve AND within our extended family it is a value that is taught to our children and grand children.

[damntexdem]

13. Oh boy, doodads! Well, maybe we should change them to don'tdads.

;-)

As to what we eat, we definitely need to develop new foods: e.g., perennial grains, rather than the annual grains that Monsanto wants to keep us using.

[robertpaulsen]

14. What are you talking about?

There's no elephant in the living room!

Seriously, the problem is just where we want...we want...we want..., but THAT we want...we want...we want...

The addiction, as you accurately describe, is not just to oil, but to our possessions, our first world techno-standards, our way of life. That way of life is perpetuated through an economic infrastructure I call the Infinite Growth Paradigm. Unless we switch from an economic paradigm based on infinite growth to an infrastructure based on sustainable living for all, nothing will change and we will be overwhelmed by the ramification of Peak Oil and Global Warming. We either evolve or perish, grow up or die.

Try to imagine a politician campaigning with that message and the uphill battle we face becomes clear.

[Skidmore]

15. Gee, I thought I was saying that....

[robertpaulsen]

18. Oh yes, we're in agreement!

Sorry if I confused you with my sarcasm. I wish more people would be willing to address the elephant in the living room.

[Oregone]

16. I get better mileage with tar sand oil

[End Of The Road]

17. I wish you had mentioned those Glade air fresheners...

...the ones with the electronic timer that shoot smelly stuff every 30 minutes. Every time I see that TV ad, I know we're doomed.

[Skidmore]

20. Those and disposable diapers and

tampon shells and disposable pen cartridges and blister packaging and meat wrapping that's anything other than butcher wrapping paper and we could go on forever.

[Locrian]

19. anomaly

We live in a civilization created and supported by cheap energy.

We all currently live in a system where we use more energy than kings of a few hundred years ago. Think of the amount of labor in one gallon of gas like this: put one gallon of gas in your car and drive until you run out. $3.00. Now how much would it take / cost for you to have someone PUSH it back home?

It's like we (in the "developed" countries) have hundreds of slaves doing our bidding. W/o cheap energy, it all falls apart.