Recovery? What is there left to "recover"?

[scarletwoman]

Will we recover our domestic manufacturing base?

Will we recover living wage jobs that contribute to society-wide prosperity?

Will we recover a strong unionized work force that guarantees fair wages and protections for all workers?

Will we recover a thriving middle class that not only provides for itself but also makes socio-economic upward mobility possible for those at the bottom?

Will we recover a time when seeking to buying products "made in the U.S.A." wasn't an exercise in futility?

Will we recover a progressive tax system that sees the wealthiest paying a share not less than the working class?

Will we recover a strongly regulated capitalism that guards against the abuses of the greediest among us?

When the powers-that-be speak of "recovery", just what exactly do they think this "recovery" will consist of?

sw

[LeftyMom]

1. Employment?

I never had any of those things, and even at my best I was probably only barely lower middle class, but I'd sure like some steady work again someday.

[scarletwoman]

4. I grew up in a time when all the things I listed held true.

Upward economic mobility was the norm, even for blue collar working class people like my parents.

[Javaman]

19. My dad was a mechanic for the dept of sanitation for the city of NY...

4 kids, owned a house and sent all of us to college.

My mom never worked untill we were all out of highschool.

That is a fantasy today.

This is how far we have fallen.

[scarletwoman]

24. You must be around the same age as me.

Blue collar work used to support families on one income quite well. These were the people I grew up around, this was my own family. They all bought houses, they sent their kids to college, and were secure in their jobs all the way through to retirement -- a retirement supported by a defined benefit pension plan.

You're exactly correct -- it's a fantasy today.

One question that bothers me most of all: Why have we all accepted the destruction of the old social contract with barely a peep?

We allow ourselves to be ripped off and beaten down, as our prospects for a decent life disintegrate before our very eyes, year after year.

If nothing else, those of us who remember those earlier times have a responsibility to keep talking about how it used to be -- so no one forgets, so everyone understands how far we have fallen.

sw

[Javaman]

39. What to know why no peep?

it won't be popular but I believe this is the reason.

No hardship.

We had our wars, we had our drafts, we had our riots, marches, protests, but for the majority of those doing those things, they could still go home at night and be safe (that is of course if you were white. The non-whites still had/have massive hardship but because their voices were stifled and suppressed, the white majority never really saw that part).

On top of that, after the viet nam war, the powers that be saw just how close we came to an open civil/revolution war and from that point forward, they learned what not to do and what to do to make sure the voice of the people aka anyone not old many, very wealthy or white collar, was never heard from again.

So the mind games began. The slow propaganda against unions (they are to powerful!! They don't listen to their members!!! they get paid to much!!!), the next on the hit list was the propaganda against the poor (They don't want to work!!! Welfare queens!!! They are just lazy!!!)

Next it was time to rebuild the economy and put the US on a permanent war footing under the guise of "defeating the Soviets". the slow creep of war propaganda turned us into a fearful nation. By 1984, the people of the US were scared of the Soviets dropping nukes on us. We, collectively ran to the government to protect us all!!! While just ten years earlier, people were still protesting against the government and the draft. Thus flip flopping a government scared of us to a government that now controlled us.

Phony wars, trumped up charges against tea pot dictators (former agents or cooperators with the CIA that got tired of being dicked around), invasions to save students (aka control resources and oust democratically elected presidents we didn't like or didn't jump high enough for us).

All the while ray-gun firing union workers, cutting back welfare, and all sorts of other social programs, environmental and energy programs. We as a nation became more and more indebted to the government to get anything done in our lives. The repubs didn't so much shrink government, the shrank the new deal and expanded bureaucracy.

To pacify us further, the doors opened to cheap goods. Now everyone can be like the Jones'.

All this grew into a massive cancer that required more and more US lives to feed it.

The next on the hit parade was peoples personal lives and the rise of corporate religion.

The slow erosion of women's rights, the politically correcting of our daily existing and the introduction of a newspeak to keep certain words from invading our lives again. Certain words to keep us from thinking and looking up their meanings. Complex thoughts require research. Research leads to an insight. Insight leads to understanding. Understanding leads to questions. Questions leads to action.

The slow reeducation in our schools by making sure kids are taught to pass a certain test rather than experiencing the concept of critical thought. If you teach kids to an end of the year test, it becomes rote teaching. The kids learn nothing but to take in and spew out the same things over and over. The schools become of a single mindedness in order to gain funds. kids memorize and spew out, school get money. Teaching becomes passe'. Robots are produced to follow orders.

So many more societal ills combine to basically make a passive generation or a population without the knowledge of what real freedom really is or what it even means.

We are now in permanent war and our rights are gone. Both of which were sold to us to make us believe it was good for us. And sadly, the American public went along out of complete fear and gave them over willingly.

The government as a whole, not party affiliation, but a sum total of government as an overarching influence upon American society has become everything traditionally we as a population have been against, yet what do we do? Not a whole hell of a lot.

The tea bagging morons are nothing more than corporate water carriers, libertarians are just stooges of the republicans, the republicans have usurped their own party in favor of out of control madness equating that will being a voice of the people, the Dems once the party that helped the average person are a mere shadow of themselves and have learned the fine art of marketing image just like the repubs did with ray-gun. Only this time, the Dems have a much more catchy slogan. The Dems of my pops generation would look upon what we have now and would be completely disgusted.

The concept of protesting has been so sidelined to such a ridiculous point that the only voice people believe they have now is on the net. Even that, the last bastion of our 1st amendment, will soon go the way of our 4th amendment.

We are sliding headlong into a world that scares the living shit out of me and the things that we as a nation need to do to prepare are put off to another day under the guise of change.

This only scratches the surface of how I feel, what I have read and what I have observed to this country in my 46 (soon to be 47. eek!) short years on this planet and as a citizen of this nation.

We have given over to the easy way and we are now paying for it.

And that hardship I mentioned at the beginning? We are now entering into it (we only just started) and hopefully, if we ever come out the other side, we will be all much better because of it.

[cali]

25. not for minorities or women.

[scarletwoman]

30. How, exactly, does that relate?

Are you saying that we had to lower our expectations in order to bring minorities and women into the workforce? That good-paying union jobs and a strong domestic manufacturing sector aren't compatible with having minorities and women in the workforce?

[cali]

31. no, I'm saying you're waxing rhapsodic over an era that sucked for minorities and women.

[scarletwoman]

33. It's an entirely different issue. I'm talking about a labor paradigm, you're talking about

a social paradigm.

The security and prosperity of the working class did not REQUIRE that minorities and women be excluded, it merely required an economic system willing to pay a fair wage.

[tonysam]

40. It was a FAR better time overall. Those of us who were around then know.

Now it's the pits for EVERYBODY.

[Lorien]

22. My cousin and her entire department were laid off on Monday

No warning at all. My cousin has been supporting herself, her mother, brother, sister, brother in law, niece and nephew on her income for the past two years. My other two cousins were laid off and can't find work, brother in law was hospitalized and her mom only make $650 in SS payments. I have no idea if this layoff will drag that entire branch of the family tree down with it (I'm out of work as well, as is my sister). It doesn't look as if there are any "leaders" out there who are serious about job creation any more.

[scarletwoman]

26. Good grief! What an awful turn for your family!

Our system has ceased to function for an ever greater number of people at the bottom. And no one has a plan to reverse the trend.

sw

[Lorien]

42. The crazy part is, aside from my cousin's mom no one else was at "the bottom"

before this recession started. Everyone was working in the entertainment industry making respectable middle class incomes (the cousin supporting so many family members was a mid level executive). But NOW we're all "at the bottom". It's like Elizabeth Warren says; we're quickly losing the middle class, and without a middle class it will cease to be America.

[Javaman]

64. Are you out in L.A.?

I used to work in the film industry out there and still have a number of old friends that still do.

I worked as a freelance Camera Asst for years before moving up then finally getting out altogether.

I can't even image how hard it must be working in the biz now.

Most of my friends work in commercials, they have been limping by, but they tell me they live in fear everyday.

I really hope things get better for you.

Cheers.

[earth mom]

60. Wow, I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope things turn around for you and your family soon!

:grouphug:

[juajen]

2. Very good questions! K & R

[scarletwoman]

5. Thank you.

[Nite Owl]

3. Nothing is going to really change

until we elect a real Democrat to the WH and get rid of the DLCers. With the Neolibs it will be just around the edges change.

[scarletwoman]

6. Are there any "real Democrats" anymore? Personally, I think electoral politics are a dead end.

Our only real hope is agitation from the bottom -- which, unfortunately means, there's no real hope. The only ones agitating are on the Right.

[obxhead]

14. I don't even think it's about real democrats anymore

I think it's now become are there any real people to run shit, regardless of party.

Until we do away with these corporatist "leaders" we are fucked. I think it's really that simple

[Nite Owl]

18. Unfortunately

you may be right. Even agitation from the left just gets ignored, maybe given lipservice at election time because they need our votes and money and that's it. Basically that's what Obama did, he lifted the veil on who they really are, did the opposite of what he said.

[lib2DaBone]

79. Kick.. I was going to say just about the same thing....

.. how can there be any change... when nothing is being done to alter the situation?

As far as I can tell.. jobs are still going to China.. Congress hasn't even tried to stem that flow.

NAFTA still gives us the SHAFTA.. and we are still flushing $14 Billion a month down the toilet in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We need 33 million new jobs to be at full employment. Obama should have embarked on a massive public works project.. Roads, school, rebuild the electric grid, high speed rail. He should have brought the troops home a year ago.

I know... CONgress has been busy with Health Care Reform... but most people these days have the ability to multi-task.

[scarletwoman]

88. Great post! You're absolutely correct -- nothing is being done to alter the situation.

I can't put it any better than you did. :thumbsup:

[Newest Reality]

7. Nice encapsulation ...

Those are the exact questions to ask when the term "recovery" comes into play. I usually ask things along those lines.

You could just add "less" to all those and that would define the "recovery": jobless, union-less, middle-class-less, etc.

Well, we must respect the facade for its convincing grandeur, tenacious hold and continual resurrections in media.

To me, it is not about IF there is a recovery, the thing to ask at the end of your list, is for who? I don't know if people notice that a lot of the recovery talk is investor-oriented jargon pertaining to a frequency above the common parlance. Any recovery, or benefits reaped from it, are primarily in the realm of the upper-crust percentage for whom the rest of us merge with all their other numbers and who easily confuse us with livestock that they own.

I mean, when you look real hard, past the denial and narcotic dogma of hope, that's obvious, right?

[scarletwoman]

9. Thank you for your thoughtful post. Yes, we are easily confused with livestock by the PTB.

We even confuse ourselves.

I agree with you, of course. The only "recovery" being looked for is a recovery that keeps the upper economic levels comfortably unperturbed by the anxious bleatings of the herd animals.

[leftstreet]

8. There will be no 'recovery' under the Hedge Fund Democrats

The NeoLibs want us working for minimum wages, with no social safety nets, all the while blindly cheering the Free Marketz!!!111

[scarletwoman]

11. No, no! It's just a matter of time! There will be a "recovery"!!!1

The Free Market is all wise and all good!

[omega minimo]

10. 30 years TOO LITTLE TOO LATE to be asking these questions

:evilfrown: the time to fight this shit was THEN!

[scarletwoman]

12. Well, just call me nostalgic then.

:)

[omega minimo]

13. Good luck with that

:toast:

[Subdivisions]

73. Yep. President Carter tried to warn us. n/t

[grasswire]

15. Orwell was an optimist.

Just sayin'.

[Echo In Light]

20. lol

[Javaman]

21. Look at my sig line. LOL nt

[TheKentuckian]

74. + something in the area of infinity

[Juche]

16. Cheer up, corporate profits are up $280 billion in the last year

http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2010/03/profits_commodities_and_debt


And wall street bankers at the top 38 firms paid themselves $145 billion in compensation in 2009.

http://rawstory.com/2010/01/wall-streets-payout-145-billion/




Its only a matter of time before it trickles down. I shall wait with my begging thimble.

Either way, I'd like to point out that I am a college educated person who is trained in science and biotechnology (which is a field of study so many people claim we need more of in this society). And I am seriously considering leaving the country because I know things aren't going to get better over the next 5-10 years jobwise. There isn't anything. And I don't think the jobs are coming back.

Yeah, our country is going down the tubes. I think it might be like China/India in the 80s, except in reverse. Back then the young and educated in those countries left home and came here. Now I think the young and educated in the US are going to try leaving in droves and moving to Asia, Latin America, etc to find a better life. The wages are lower, but so is the cost of living. And at least you have a job. Our nation will experience brain drain rather than benefit from it. There are no real economic prospects for young people like myself. And while the younger, educated workers start to leave, corporate profits and income inequality will keep growing.

It is a bad recipe.

FTR, With $200 billion a year (which is less than half the growth in corporate profits and wall street compensation in the last year) you could pay employers a $10,000 a year subsidy to hire 20 million workers.

[scarletwoman]

17. Thank you for your post -- "begging thimble" -- good one!

Things look really bleak for young people, I feel really bad for you. At least I have memories of better times.

[Odin2005]

23. The entire global economy is a vast, giant Ponzi Scheme.

[scarletwoman]

27. True that. It bugs me no end that such a relatively few greedy sociopaths can create so much misery

for so many.

There are so many millions more of us than there are of them -- why can't we take them down?

[MellowDem]

28. You are living in a fantasy world...

It was a unique set of circumstances that allowed the US during the 40s and 50s to be able to boost the standard of living of everyone so much, namely the US being the only real manufacturing power for a while after the destruction of WW2.

But now labor is cheaper overseas and manufacturing is more efficient and technology dependant than ever in the US. A lot of people have been laid off due to machines taking their jobs, which is really just another form of "cheap labor". That is the reality of the world today and it is why we need to forget the "good old days" and move on and transform our workforce to the new economy. The new economy doesn't heavily favor labor like the old economy did, but that doesn't mean we can't do what we can to provide for those displaced by the new economy.

Unfortunately, it won't be easy to bring back unions, what with a steady supply of cheap illegal labor from south of the border and numerous countries overseas with incredibly cheap labor. We can try to unionize what they can't export, though, but not what they import cheap illegal labor for.

The reality is that the US for a long time far outpaced the world in wealth and our citizens all gained from it. Now the world is catching up, which is nice for the world, and for us, in the long run. But in the short run Americans will feel the pinch because our expectations of standard of living were already so high to begin with, any stagnation will be easily noticed. Eventually, once the world has caught up more and there are middle classes all over the world, then we won't have to worry about "cheap labor" as much anymore.

Really, to keep America like it was is impossible. If we use tariffs and trade wars, it will only hurt the American economy and companies will simply move out.

I certainly hope we bring back a more progressive tax system, for sure.

[scarletwoman]

29. I'm not "living in a fantasy world", I'm enumerating what's been lost.

I could almost agree with most of your post except for one thing -- the ever-increasing gap between the wealth at the top and the fortunes of everyone below.

As long as the wealthy elite keep vacuuming all the wealth of the world into their own pockets, nothing is going to improve for those below.

Our country is huge and blessed with abundant resources. There's no reason why we couldn't be economically self-supporting, with decent wages for our workers, producing the goods that everyone needs.

I've never been a materialist, so a low consumption lifestyle doesn't seem like a bad thing. BUT, to continue to watch the fruits our labor, and the labor of workers the world over, increasingly fattening only the people at the top is totally unacceptable.

[MellowDem]

32. I agree about the spread of wealth...

which is why we need a more progressive tax system.

I agree that it is possible for our country to be self-sustaining, but it would come at incredible cost and ecnonomic growth. Our standard of living would spiral down. I don't think that globalization is a bad thing in the end. It has made the world more connected and interdependant than ever before, and where as in the past China and the US would have gone to war by now, in this new world economy it makes no sense to. But there will be some losers as the change of globalization keeps going, which we should try to accomodate and reeducate as best as possible.

As for other country's own problems with wealth distribution, well thankfully we have Europe, and the rest will come around when their populations do. There isn't a whole lot we can do about it I guess.

[scarletwoman]

35. Well, you're apparently a tweaker -- just tweak the system and everything will work out. I'm not.

The global economic system is filthy with corruption and a totally losing proposition for a HUGE percentage of the world's population. I call that unacceptable, period.

[MellowDem]

41. I agree in many ways...

but there isn't much we can do about the corruption in other countries besides invading them. And even with all the corruption, this is the most peace we have ever had between nation states in the history of mankind. And considering the population and availability of nuclear weapons, it couldn't have happened sooner. This is the best system we've seen yet. I don't see it as a losing proposition at all. Globalization has been a liberating force for much of the world, and where it is used at the population's disadvantage, those areas already were corrupt and those people were already being used generally anyways. Globalization is simply the expansion of trade, it is not a tool that causes the "losing proposition". That would be the leaders of those nations that choose to do so. And as we have seen, it doesn't matter what economic policy a country has per se; just look at communism which has been full of corruption and put the population of those nation's in horrible positions.

[Octafish]

34. It's getting pretty bad when Uncle Sam is busting unions.

Bet all those lawyers are happy to have work, though.

[scarletwoman]

36. Heh. Ah yes, there are always winners, aren't there?

Too bad for the losers.

[Octafish]

37. Until Uncle Sam wakes up and quits equating money with power and goes back to 1 vote per citizen...

...We the People will continue to be the losers.

And it's starting to show around the edges, no one likes to be a mark or a patsie.

Great thread, scarletwoman. Gets to the root of the, ah, situation.

[scarletwoman]

38. Thanks for the kind words, Octafish.

My biggest fear is that we'll just continue to be beat further and further down and too many people will just passively accept it as the way it has to be.

The first thing we have to get back is our imagination -- reject all the manufactured narratives and think about the world we would create if we could. From imagination comes creativity, from creativity comes action.

We should not accept the way things are -- because the way things are is a trap.

sw

[HuckleB]

43. Reality: The Good Old Days Were Never Quite That Good, And Today Is Not As Bad As It Seems.

[Lorien]

44. Wrong on both counts. nt

[HuckleB]

46. .

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

45. Simplistic nonsense. I'm 60 years old, I've witnessed the changes firsthand.

I'm not being sentimental or nostalgic, I'm recounting historical fact.

The working class in this country is being beaten and robbed blind by the utterly corrupt Owner Class. There actually was a time in our history when the highest paid executives made no more than 40 times what the lowest workers made. Now it's something like 400 times or more.

Don't tell me things aren't as bad as I think.

[HuckleB]

47. Yes, you are.

You're not the only one who has witnessed changes over time.

Sentimental BS has a long history as a human foible.

[scarletwoman]

48. So has denial.

[HuckleB]

49. It's not denial.

I just don't let emotional dramatics run my view of the world.

[scarletwoman]

50. Nor facts, apparently.

[HuckleB]

51. .

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

52. Thanks for keeping my thread kicked.

;)

[lonestarnot]

56. So no empathy then.

Emotional dramatics, now I smell bullshit. :eyes:

[laughingliberal]

53. +1000 nt

[scarletwoman]

54. Thanks.

:hi:

[Jim Sagle]

61. Whereas DLC hogwash is quite new and shiny.

[laughingliberal]

55. I'm with you. I'm 55. There have been drastic changes for workers

or it's just my imagination that we once got regular, substantive wage increases. Or that my father worked a blue collar job, bought a house, fed a wife and 4 kids, and retired with a respectable pension that took care of him and my mother in their later years (and it wasn't even a union shop). It's just some liberal media hype that workers wages have stagnated and declined for 3 decades now, I suppose. And I must have imagined that 5 years ago my husband and I lived in a house, had work, paid bills, were able to feed and clothe ourselves and eat out a couple of times a week and that now we spend our life scrounging for work to buy food and put gas in the car and we're spending the winter on a friend's couch because we can't afford the propane to heat our place.

I appreciate your post. It seems some think enough ridicule will and denial will, somehow, convince us that all is ok and we should just sit here while the upward transfer of resources and wealth continues.

[scarletwoman]

57. I grieve for all of us. More and more people are being pushed over the edge into sheer scrambling

survival. Any honest examination of the empirical data over the past 30+ years will show a clear trajectory downward for the working class, as ever more wealth accumulates at the top.

"Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining" comes to mind.

[laughingliberal]

58. Sheer scrambling is a perfect description of where we are

I mean we have absolutely seen the days we didn't know if we would have food next week and when we got called with a little job for a customer we had to borrow gas money to go do the estimate. I was poor in nursing school but I never thought I'd see those days again.

Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining, indeed. And don't post a line from some old pop song and try to convince me it's substantive debate.

[omega minimo]

69. Got rights?

[gleaner]

59. I really don't think so anymore ...

I even wonder if there is anything left to start a recovery with? Thank you for your post. It is clear, concise and true.

[scarletwoman]

63. Thank you. It's been bothering me for a long time.

Hearing discussions about "recovery", I keep looking around and wondering, "how?" The economic system is fundamentally set up to roll over and crush the people at the bottom and I don't see anything being done to change those fundamentals.

[gleaner]

65. You're welcome ....

right now the economy seems like the concept of the "perfect storm" when so many different factors come together to produce a powerful confluence of forces that cause enormous destruction. I think of life here in the past and remember how different it was years ago when I was a kid.

I'm not talking pink fluffy nostalgia, I'm talking jobs which do not exist anymore, people who are sick being treated as if they have done something terrible on purpose, no more real scientific innovation and finally this crushing blow to our ecology that the offshore drilling would provide.

I don't even know if we have that much manufacturing done in this country anymore and we are feeling it. I don't think of us as self sustaining as far as our economy goes and that is bone scary. I feel less and less able to do anything about any of this, because it has become like an oligarchy with a few wealthy individuals and corporations owning everything and doing nothing with it except feed themselves.

You said all of this with a beautiful simplicity, almost like a Haiku for loss. I'm rambling on and on. But thank you again for writing it, posting it and most of all for thinking of it. Thoughtful people sometimes seem cursed because they have a good idea of what can and probably will happen, but on the other hand I would rather hear your ideas than the ideas of someone who doesn't spend much time or effort on reflection at all.

[earth mom]

62. Thank you for posting this thread. It's scary out there and I really can't take the fantasy land

that some are pushing here on DU.

Maybe they are so stinking rich they have no worries, I don't know.

But I'm glad there are people like you and others on this thread that are telling it like it is and who refuse to sugar coat it.


My family is doing ok, but I'm feeling worn down lately because the truth keeps getting drowned out by the ridiculous cheerleading.

Obama and the rest of em are lying their asses off by saying that we aren't in a depression

Excuse me, but people are losing homes and jobs in droves!

Does Obama & Company really think no one will notice that what's happening mirrors The Great Depression?!!!


And if that's not bad enough, now Obama & Co plan to totally screw us all over by forcing us to buy health insurance-not health care-at what ever damn price the insurance robber barons decide!

And don't even get me started on Obama's offshore drilling and his illegal and immoral wars!!!

Obama is playing chess my ass!

The only game Obama is playing is the game where the rich and powerful steal every damn penny from the rest of us with his help and blessing!

[blindpig]

66. They are recovering the wealth that got away from them...

in the Gilded Age, and then some. Everything else is secondary, if that.

[scarletwoman]

68. scale of greed that the Owner Class operates under is beyond my comprehension.

How much does a mortal human really need? What motivates the determination to have EVERYTHING? I know it's all wrapped up in ego and the lust for power, but it just boggles my mind.

When is the rest of humanity going to stop putting up with this shit?

[blindpig]

77. More than ego and lust for power....

it is the logic of capitalism, which enables those undesirable character traits. Without the money/social power which is contained in the command of capital those traits in some individuals would be manageable within the context of normal society.

[scarletwoman]

82. Thank you. That makes sense.

It really bothers me that the very worst human beings among us are the ones who are in a position to adversely affect the lives of millions.

[G_j]

67. it's hard to recover from a downhill slide

the momentum is just too great, recover from WHAT ? exactly!

great post

[scarletwoman]

70. Thank you. I'm glad you found my thread.

I always appreciate your supportive words. :)

[G_j]

71. the rich getting richer

the poor getting poorer

been going that way for a while now,
and it's NOT an accident.

recover from what?

i want a bumper sticker

:hug:

[scarletwoman]

83. "i want a bumper sticker" I want a paradigm change.

:)

[Subdivisions]

72. Not without lots of oil. And since world oil production is now in decline

there cannot be a return to economic prosperity. All economic activity, especially economic growth, requires an ever-increasing supply of raw energy, specifically crude oil. Oil production is in decline.



As long as it is in decline, and in the absense of any suitable replacement, THERE CAN BE NO SUSTAINED RECOVERY, much less a return to economic growth.

[TheKentuckian]

75. We can get off oil if we would just do it

Carbon will take longer but oil addiction is an illusion. We could slash usage by going to disel and hybrids now. We can use NG. We can put up windmills and solar panels everywhere.

50 years to fusion. We can bridge that gap with much less crude and eventually almost none.

[Subdivisions]

76. Will and timing are everything. n/t

[deutsey]

78. The wealthy elites have finally recovered from the long nightmare of 20th century progressivism

:evilfrown:

[scarletwoman]

81. That says it all, that absolutely says it all.

And hey, deutsey, it's really great to see you again! Seems like it's been years -- or maybe I just haven't been on the same threads as you. I do very much remember you from the early days.

Thank you for your excellent pithy post.

:hi:
sw

[deutsey]

85. Hi SW

Oh yeah, it's always nice to "see" you too!

I've been a lurker mostly for the past year or so, but have felt inspired to become active again. DU's a good place to both commiserate and to spar a bit when the mood strikes me. :evilgrin:

More than anything, though, I'm really sick about what I see happening to our country over the past few decades (which your OP spoke to).

I hope to bump into you more often. :hi:

[scarletwoman]

86. All I can say is

yeah, what you said. I likewise hope to bump into you more often.

I go long periods of time without posting much, too. But DU is a nearly impossible habit to break after all these years.

See ya around!

:hug:
sw

[Karmadillo]

80. We'll recover our illusions!!!! And what could be better!!!!

nt

[scarletwoman]

84. Slavery is freedom!

[G_j]

87. that's it

nothing about the "growing economy" of the recent past was ever sustainable.
It was an illusion.
It's an illusion that tomorrow never comes, but it does.

[newspeak]

89. Don't you know?

Recovery is just around the corner. I wonder when they count those new jobs if it's individuals or one person doing two or three jobs to make ends meet? Remember when that woman told * that she was working, I believe, two jobs just to support her family-and he said something like, "that's great, only in America."

[scarletwoman]

90. I remember that well. Talk about jaw-dropping!

Yeah, there's so much opportunity here that some lucky ducks (remember THAT phrase?) can have two, three, as many jobs as they want!

Is this a great country or what!