"6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit", privatizing law enforcement.

[jody]

http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

Short yellow light times at intersections have been shown to increase the number of traffic violations and accidents. Conversely, increasing the yellow light duration can dramatically reduce red-light violations at an intersection.

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1) Chattanooga, Tennessee
The city of Chattanooga was forced refund $8800 in red light cameras tickets issued to motorists trapped by an illegally short yellow time. The refund only occurred after a motorist challenged his citation by insisting that the yellow light time of 3.0 seconds was too short. LaserCraft, the private vendor that runs the camera program in return for a cut of the profits, provided the judge with a computer database that asserted the yellow was 3.8 seconds at that location.

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2) Dallas, Texas
The city’s second highest revenue producing camera, for example, was located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leading up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket-producing intersection’s yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. That is 0.35 seconds shorter than TxDOT’s recommended bare minimum. Dallas likewise installed the cameras at locations with existing short yellow times. A total of twenty-one camera intersections in Dallas had yellow

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6) Union City, California
In 2005, Union City, California was caught trapping motorists with a yellow signal time 1.3 seconds below the minimum established by state law. As a result, the city was forced to refund more than $1 million in red light camera fines.

[joeybee12]

1. Ah, the wonders of a free market! No wonder the teabaggers hate government...

...when private industry does SUCH a better job!

Do I need this? :sarcasm:

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

2. If the private vendor did this without the knowledge or consent . . .

. . . of the municipality in question, then you would have a good point.

But I wouldn't be surprised if, at least in some cases, these local governments, who stand to benefit from the revenue generated by increased red-light infractions, knew of, and approved (if only tacitly), the shortening of the yellow-light timing.

[msongs]

5. the goal of "private industry" is to screw n cheat everyone it can as often as possible lol nt

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

9. Maybe so . . .

. . . but if these municipalities were in cahoots with these private vendors with respect to shortening the yellow-light timing, so as to add to their own coffers, what does that tell us?

[FiveGoodMen]

27. It tells us that the local governments think of citizens, first and foremost, as a revenue source.

[Uncle Joe]

28. For one thing it tells us that a police state if given too much power, can become addicted to it's

own draconian policies to perpetuate it self instead of making the difficult choices of scaling down.

This adverse self-sustaining dynamic is one reason as to why I believe the so called "War on Drugs" to be a one way trip to national disaster.

[MajorChode]

10. I'm pretty sure that is the case

The city of Southlake, TX installed numerous red light cameras as soon as the state allowed them without any consideration if a disproportionate share of accidents warranted the action. When the state first started considering legislation that would remove all red light cameras when their current contracts expire, the city immediately renegotiated their red light camera contracts for 20 years. It's pretty evident some cities are simply in collusion with private entities with these revenue generating devices.

I have no sympathy for someone who runs a red light. If they do so, they should get a ticket unless the city is nefariously reducing the yellow light dwell time past engineered recommendations in an attempt to generate additional revenue. However, I'm not convinced these cameras reduce accidents and/or fatalities.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

12. In fact, I believe that, in some cases . . .

. . . there is evidence that accidents (in the form of "rear-enders," at least) may actually increase at some of these monitored intersections.

[MajorChode]

19. I've heard that

That's why I'm not convinced they are effective. It would stand to reason that overall accident rates stay the same while fatal accidents decrease, but I would defer to an empirical data on the matter if such a thing even exists.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. I would believe that...

people pretty much lock up the brakes anymore when they see a yellow light.

[LiberalFighter]

20. I always question any private enterprise

Especially when a very long term contract is agreed upon.

It is more likely that someone on the government side is connected with the deal with the intent to benefit financially.

[MajorChode]

24. That's just politics as usual in Texas

Hell, they don't even try to conceal it anymore as when someone is caught with their hand in the cookie jar it has no impact at the ballot box.

[liberal N proud]

3. Greed make the world go round

So some think

[Canuckistanian]

4. Wow, that's something you never think about

These bloodsuckers will do anything for more money, public safety be damned.

[hunter]

6. If we got rid of traffic lights cars would be less useful.

Which would be fine with me.

So my idea is to license traffic lights. A city caught abusing their use of traffic lights in this manner would have to replace them with stop signs. Hopefully it would make it so painful to drive that many people would abandon their cars.

Since that's not going to happen, I'm hoping these cities sue the vendors and the crooked traffic light camera companies are put out of business. If the cities are proven to be in collusion with the traffic cam companies it would be good to see that out in the open too.

[Fumesucker]

8. A four way stop is more wasteful of fuel than a properly set up red light..

Probably enough more wasteful that even with fewer total cars going through that intersection more fuel would still be used in total.

Of course at some point of reduced traffic there will be less total fuel used but it's by no means clear that you would get enough people off the road to get to that point.

[lonestarnot]

7. Why isn't Paradise Valley in AZ on the list?

[Soylent Brice]

11. or anywhere in Phoenix - Mesa - Tempe - Gilbert - Chandler for that matter.

[lonestarnot]

13. Money grabbing machines on every corner.

[Soylent Brice]

17. yup. lived in Phoenix for a couple years, 2006 - 2008.

i think people drive angrier and crazier just because those fucking cameras are there.

[rbixby]

14. I'm not sure how red light cameras are legal

I know in Minnesota they're illegal because it is impossible to determine who is actually driving the car. If you lend your car to someone and they run a red light, why should you be financially responsible for their poor decision making?

[jody]

15. Good question. I browsed "Traffic enforcement camera" at Wikipedia after I posted the OP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_enforcement_camera

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Well, it would teach you to never lend your car to an asshole.

There are good reasons for these lights other than generating revenue. Just the other day a jackass came barreling up behind me on a city street, passed me and made a quick swerve to get in front of me (and I was actually going a couple over the limit myself), only to be stopped by a red light. He sat there for a second, then went on around the corner. The corner has a camera - he just got himself a $50 ticket.

If he is driving so recklessly that he can't notice easily seen cameras mounted at a "No Turn On Red" corner, he DESERVES the ticket.

[rbixby]

29. Its true...but

In that sense, if I lend my ski mask out to someone who then robs a bank, am I partially responsible for the robbery? I agree that you shouldn't lend your car out to assholes, but why should you have to pay the price for their stupidity? In Minnesota, the red light camera violations were deemed moving violations, so they went on your driving record, affected your insurance rates, etc. I think that's probably why they ended up getting shut down. The cameras are still there, placed at various intersections around downtown Minneapolis, but they're inactive. I think the mere presence of them probably makes a lot of people think twice.

[MajorChode]

25. You could say the same for parking tickets

In Texas, they are treated like a civil citation (like a parking ticket) rather than a moving violation.

If you refuse to pay, you don't get a warrant for arrest, but you do get turned over to a collection agency and you won't be able to renew your registration until the citation has been paid. It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone challenged the registration refusal in court, but I suspect in totalitarian Texas, you wouldn't stand a chance with the fucksticks the locals around here elect for judges.

[howard112211]

16. No shit? I almost had an accident in Chattanooga because of the damn short yellow light.

:wow:

[eppur_se_muova]

21. I KNEW IT !!

And one of the smaller towns doing it is in southern WVa -- wish I could remember the name. They're milking the highway traffic for fines.

There is a red light where the highway crosses a four-lane road -- if the light changes to yellow when you are already starting through the intersection, you have a choice -- continue, even though the light is red , or stop, leaving you blocking two lanes of traffic which have a green light. So of course they don't give you nearly enough time to make it across four lanes before the light turns red. They have a cop car at that intersection handing out tickets neaarly every time the light changes when traffic is heavy.

In my case, I saw the light change just as I was a few feet away from the intersection (speed limit is 45). Standing on the brakes would have left me in the middle of the intersection (at best, since it was raining) -- obviously not a good thing to do. So did I get a ticket for continuing through? You bet I did.

[spinbaby]

26. Probably Summersville

The town makes all their money on out-of-state traffic.

[eppur_se_muova]

31. YESSSSSSS!! Summersville!! That's it!

I had to have relatives in WVa pay the fine for me -- the city clerk told them that all they do all day is collect fine payments.

Probably too late for a class-action lawsuit, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

If you know any newspaper articles or similar that verify this, please post or PM me.

[Blue_Tires]

23. I was saying this back in the 90s

good to finally see some proof

[seabeyond]

30. dallas and lubbock. i swear here in amarillo, lately, there have been 4, 5 times

i have thought... man that yellow didnt stay on as long as it should.

interesting

[PVnRT]

32. A privatized police state? That just blew Orwell's mind.