Rachel Maddow and Bart Stupak: If the Dems lose Stupak's seat, is Rachel partially responsible?

[Pryderi]

Poll question: Rachel Maddow and Bart Stupak: If the Dems lose Stupak's seat, is Rachel partially responsible?

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. If any "Democrats" like Stupak lose their seats, it will be because they didn't act like DEMOCRATS.

The DLC is already typing up their "Blame the Libruls" scripts just in case, but it will be the "centrist" cowards that lose seats. Not the Democrats who actually are doing their jobs.

[baldguy]

2. +1000

We need Democrats from the Democrats wing of the Democratic Party.

[RKP5637]

3. EXACTLY!!! They had it all and blew it... I blame the democrats themselves

for any and all of their potential loses... The nation was solidly behind them initially. And the DLC is taking them down.

[Pryderi]

4. Right! Because every congressional district is as liberal as the one you live in!

:sarcasm:

[ClassWarrior]

7. Wrong!! Because voters like politicians who stand strong for their values.

Here's an example from our own beloved DU:

Go Grayson

Love the stones on this guy. Keep calling em out! I don't always agree with him, but I admire the fact that he's not just going to keep quietly taking this short of shit from the GOP. (emphasis added)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8119980&mesg_id=8119991

It's why Russ Feingold, arguably the most liberal member of the Senate, keeps getting re-elected with a huge margin of Rape-Publican votes in my home state.

NGU.

[Greyhound]

21. A lesson Democrats have refused to learn for my entire life.

People have noticed that they do not stand for anything. Unfortunately, they also seem to have missed that the republicons stand for terrible things.

[nosmokes]

24. RAmen and RAmen brother.

Ya can't even get a Democrat to give a straight answer to a simple question. I knew Kerry had lost when he was asked if he owned a SUV he hemmed and hawed for a full three seconds before coming out w/ 'my family owns one' or something lame like that.As if somebody woulda crucified him for saying yeah, I have a suburban I use for duck hunting and taking the family to church.' Sure he woulda taken some grief from the most radical enviros, so fucking what? Take a stand and still be standing there next month.And the month after. Dont draw a line in the sand. Some lines need to be set in concrete.

[ClassWarrior]

5. "You speak to biconceptuals the same way you speak to your base: you discuss progressive values."

The very idea that there is a "center" marginalizes progressives, and sees them as extremists, when they simply share fundamental American values. The term "center" suggests there is a "mainstream" where most people are and that there is a single set of views held by that mainstream. That is false.

The fallacy matters in terms of Democratic electoral strategy. The Democratic base consists of people who are mostly or totally progressive, just as the Republican base consists of people who are mostly or totally conservative. How does the Democratic Party as a whole, and how do Democratic candidates in particular, speak to those who are biconceptual?

I am a cognitive scientist and believe that people's brains play a significant role in elections. From the perspective of brain science, the answer is a no-brainer. (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) You speak to biconceptuals the same way you speak to your base: you discuss progressive values, and if you are talking to folks with both progressive and conservative values, you mainly talk about the issues where they share progressive values. What that does is evoke and strengthen the progressive values already there in the minds of biconceptuals.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/no-center-no-centrists_b_60419.html

NGU.

[TheDebbieDee]

6. You took the words right out of my mouth!

Or, rather, you took the words right off my keyboard!

[mrcheerful]

8. Living in Michigan and having visited Stupaks district every summer all I can say is

Stupak winning that district was a miracle, when you got nit wits running the woods talking about living in "gods country" I doubt very much that you find many Micheal Moores. On the other hand you will find a lot of Joe the fake plumbers and Tim McVeigh types that believe they choose to be born in that part of the state. The stupid runs deep up there.

[RKP5637]

13. Anymore, I'm thinking "The stupid runs deep..." in a lot of places in this

country.

[depakid]

9. The longer I'm in a sane place, the crazier it looks back in the states

I'll say this though- if the Dems don't have Stupak around anymore- we'll ALL be the better for it.

The American Democratic party included. He did you all a lot of damage- more than most Republicans could do.

[RKP5637]

16. You're lucky to be in a sane place. I think it's really crazy in the states anymore. I used

to think it just looked that way, but now I'm convinced it's reality. Glad you're in a sane place.

[CTyankee]

10. Good lord! Any person who speaks out against this guy is great!

Instead of whining, why don't we try to WIN this seat? I vote NO...

[Iggo]

11. It'll be Stupak's fault.

[nosmokes]

12. Stupak is a good liberal, and he sticks to his principles which is admirable,

but I could never support someone who wants to deny full citizenship to a whole class of people based on their plumbing.

[Truth2Tell]

15. I guess we define "good liberal" differently. nt

[nosmokes]

22. Stupak voted against the phoney baloney war in Iraq. That's liberal w/ guts.

Not many other Dems had the spine to do that.Other than his abortion stance, please point to where Stupak votes aren't liberal.

[RKP5637]

17. +1000, n/t

[RainDog]

14. LOL. this is getting fucking RIDICULOUS!

can't accept blame for Stupak alienating democrats? can't accept blame for Stupak siding with pedophiles over women? can't accept Stupak shitting on the MAJORITY of Americans who support choice, a public option and leaders who are not led around by the nose by religious fuckwads on C Street?

when do conservatives (democratic or republican) EVER take responsibility for their own actions?

it's like the Joe Lieberman whine brigade. wwwhhhaaaaaa! liberals don't like me when I do things they find horrific.

if you don't want to face the consequences for actions that ARE OPPOSED TO THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM then blue dogs should run as republicans.

[depakid]

20. "when do conservatives (democratic or republican) EVER take responsibility for their own actions? "

Only when they look around and see that there's no one else to blame.

Even then, one can see some impressive ratiionalizations,

[Canuckistanian]

18. Was Stupak a Democrat?

I think the jury is still out on that.

[WeekendWarrior]

19. Oh for fuck's sake. nt

[caty]

23. If a politician does not

stand up for the Democratic platform, then he is a traitor to the party. If a politician only believes in some of the things in that platform, then he/she should run as an independent. It is deceitful to take Democratic campaign money and then vote against the party values.