Why the Obama Plan Is Working Polls say the economy is heading in the wrong direction. Markets say

[EV_Ares]

it's back on track. This time, the markets are right.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_16/b4174028669540.htm

Earnings, Economic Reports Set to Tell Tale of Recovery

Corporate America should begin to see its first quarter of double-digit revenue growth in nearly two years, as earnings season gets underway in the week ahead.

from: http://www.cnbc.com/

Looks like Obama is right about some things.

[Coyote_Bandit]

1. Main Street

is a whole hell of a lot more concerned about job creation than corporate earnings.

Obama is still falling short on that measure.

[EV_Ares]

4. What was it over 160,000 new jobs the other day that was reported, the most in over

how many months. It all starts somewhere doesn't it.

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. And the majority of those were

temporary jobs for census takers.

Bottom line is that the Obama administration has largely pursued a policy of trickle down job creation. They seem to actually think that it will be the big corporations that create the jobs. Never mind the fact that those big corporations have to show earnings growth and pay their CEO an outrageous sum before they can even consider adding part-time temp workers. Never mind the fact that lots of those newly unemployed folks are quite capable of starting businesses and creating jobs - and many will in fact find it necessary to do so because most of those jobs that have been lost are simply not coming back.

Color me unimpressed. The Obama administration has been little more than a lost opportunity.

[EV_Ares]

13. Actually it was around 38000 that was for census workers, not a majority and

sorry you are unimpressed but there are more jobs and better days ahead thanks to someone who inherited the Bush Administration's work.

Yes, many of the jobs lost will not come back, guess you can blame that on Obama as well if you want.

Color me impressed.

[laughingliberal]

36. There are systemic problems which need correcting in order for the working class

to be able to become upwardly mobile again. But it's not going to happen with lackluster, "stay the course," economic policies. Long before the crash or even the signs of problems we needed changes to benefit working and middle class Americans and I think most of us hoped for a leader who would push for and endorse worker friendly policies. So, the new standard by which many seem to be judging 'success' is a tad inadequate for those of us who have hoped to see the system changed for the benefit of working and middle class Americans.

[Hannah Bell]

52. 88,000 of the jobs created were temporary jobs, including the census jobs.

i.e., more than half of them. & it takes about 125K jobs just to break even, i.e., take away the temp jobs & ground is still being lost. we're already 8 million jobs in the hole.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8103607

[Donnachaidh]

16. of course, the 460,000 new unemployment filers the same week

cancels out that supposed job growth. 300,000 job losses even if those *new jobs* are counted.

[MindandSoul]

19. Obama is not a magician, nor the Messiah! The question is:

Could McCain, or Bush, have done better???

I don't think so!

[Coyote_Bandit]

20. Ummmm......

I refuse to vote for the best of two bad candidates. Or defend a politician because somebody else *MIGHT* have done something differently.

Either the politician serves to advance and protect my needs and interests - and those of millions more like me - of he/she doesn't. I don't give a fuck what kind of sh*t they're shoveling. I care about what they actually do. To date, the Obama administration has largely failed to advance and protect those needs and interests. But they damn sure have been taking care of the multi-national corporations and the health insurers.

[MindandSoul]

29. I agree with you about not voting for the least of two evils!

But that is absolutely NOT what I think of President Obama.
I just asked the question to people who believe that President Obama is failing!

I do believe he has done A LOT in just over one year! Especially with all the attacks he has been under since before day one!

[sabrina 1]

26. Well, that's not a very flattering comparison. How about

asking if FDR could have done better? I have a feeling he could. But Bush and McCain? What would they have done? I think they would have bailed out Wall St. and not cared too much about Main St?? Why does that sound familiar.

[laughingliberal]

38. I guess if you set the bar low enough anyone can look like a raging success. nt

[Raineyb]

2. I don't give a shit what profits corporate America is making.

These are the same assholes whose stock goes up when they lay off people. Wall Street != the rest of us.

[EV_Ares]

7. Why hell no, who would because if they don't make anything, then they can't hire at all can they.

Brilliant analogy.

[Raineyb]

11. They're not hiring now. They prefer slave labor from China than hiring

workers here. And any time they lay off workers and make MORE money it doesn't do a hell of a lot for the rest of us as unemployed people don't spend any damn thing. But why let a small thing like that get in the way of cheering for people who haven't lost any damn thing in the first place.

[Donnachaidh]

17. with all these weeks of glowing reports of recovery we STILL don't see anything more than

a piddly amount of jobs being offered.

This is a jobless recovery - the bailouts helped settle the banks, and the banks are refusing to help small business.

The elites win. AGAIN.

[katandmoon]

3. Of course corporate America is thriving. The millions who can't find jobs? Not so much.

[EV_Ares]

6. From the last report jobs are coming back.

[Donnachaidh]

18. 460,000 UI filers against 160,000 jobs -- where exactly does this say they are coming BACK?

Numbers don't LIE - but PR campaigns do.

[katandmoon]

28. Seriously, get your head out of the sand.

[northernlights]

39. not from the ADP repot

that one showed a loss of 13,000. It's not massaged...just payroll count.

[sendero]

47. It's amazing to me..

.. that one tiny uptick in jobs is a "recovery". It is not. Several months of sustained upticks, yes. This blip no.

How can a consumer economy recover when it cannot buy things because it is unemployed?

There is no recovery, but you can think there is if it makes you feel better.

[KG]

5. things are looking up for the investor class

whoop-dee-dam-doo.

[notesdev]

9. It's back on track if you're a finance sector pirate

meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, the economy is terrible and is getting worse by the day.

[salguine]

10. Oh yay! I guess it's cool that Mr. and Mrs. Joe Q Public are still getting bent over the sofa by

"The Market" as long as the Market's doing okay.

The problem with all these reports that say "The economy is doing great" and "The economy is back on track" is that for the media and everyone that measures this stuff, "the economy" really only means "big business", and no thought is given to how actual PEOPLE are doing. When they say The Economy is doing great, they really mean that Wall Street is doing great; and by the same token, when they say "The economy is down", it means that Wall Street only made five-and-a-half trillion dollars in pure profit instead of the five-and-three-quarter trillion they made the year before.

We have to stop using Wall Street as the only yardstick by which to measure the health of our economy.

[Pirate Smile]

12. The economy is really starting to turn. My husband's company has been crazy busy the

past few weeks. He thinks they are tipping into "need to hire more people" territory - and he is the one who decides to hire people. It was a small business that is now creeping into medium sized (around 50 employees).

I've seen quite a bit of new activity now that Spring is in full swing - some houses being built in two different residential areas I drive through a few times a week, road construction back in action and some new businesses being built or remodeled.

:)

[EV_Ares]

14. Same here on the houses being sold. This has been the first quarter with

an increase in real estate. Part of that was possibly the consumer confidence level increased to the highest in 8 years.

[Pirate Smile]

15. Around mid-March I noticed a lot of houses come on the market trying to get in on the Housing credit

before it expires at the end of April. Lots of sold houses. Hopefully, the housing market does OK after it expires.

edit to add - we are heading into the weekend when doom and gloom rule DU.

[janedum]

21. Of course stimulus is working. We have a Corporatist Gov't. and still NO jobs!

Gov't for the corporations, by the corporations, at the taxpayers expense.

[Historic NY]

22. But the continuing theme is to be negative on all the polls....

he could give out gold coins tomorrow and he still would not be doing anything. Its all part of the grand Repuke plan.

[EV_Ares]

23. There you go, man this board has changed since was on here last.

[Historic NY]

24. I guess you don't read my paper.....polling isn't matching reality that what I meant.

[EV_Ares]

25. No, I don't and haven't been on this board for some time and can see have

not missed much, not the same, maybe should consider changing its name.

[gleaner]

27. No it is not working ..

This is the third thread in this forum that says the same thing. Ignore what people tell pollsters about cost of living, jobs, health care and housing and believe the very unstable stock market which is powered by the rich and benefits the rich. Give it a rest. It is sophistry and it is not going to be believed.

[EV_Ares]

30. I don't believe you because all you have to do is watch and some businesses

are starting to hire, a few weeks ago, even the confidence level was up where people are feeling better about their jobs staying and other areas, whereas, they are spending more. There are all kinds of signs. Market broke 11000 and then closed 3 pts under. All the factors are there whether you want to admit it or not or you can continue to fight it.

[gleaner]

31. Whether or not you believe me is not really ....

important to me. I stand by what I posted, and if it offends you block it or don't read it. You are making a lot of assumptions which are based on supposition, a few good trading days on the stock market and what I suspect is wishful thinking. Wishful thinking has never been a viable substitute for reality.

If you respond to another poster, I expect they would be more responsive to you if you replied with civility, respect for their disagreement with your ideas, and the fact that you cannot tell other people what to think, how to feel or how they should interpret what they see and hear. It is not a given that your interpretation of the information is fact, therefore I have nothing to "admit." Neither does anyone else. I have nothing to fight. Neither do other posters who disagree with you. I comment on topics I have an opinion on with my own perception of facts. If you cannot accept that people disagree it must make it difficult for you to participate in the give and take of debate. Debate is not a relationship between one superior and one inferior poster. It is an exchange between equals who each have strong opinions based on facts and circumstances.

If you recall recent history, you will recall that 9/11 ripped the core out of the stock market. It rallied under George Bush and maintained a certain volatility which it still has. There were days when the gains were wonderful and days when it crashed in flames. It was, however never a strong indicator of how the whole economy was going to turn out. If it were do you think we would be sitting here, mainly unable to find work, inflation spiraling to the point where we can barely afford to buy food in some areas or fill our cars with gas? Do you think that the ever rising foreclosure rate is an indication of a robust economy? These things speak for themselves. I don't have to say a word.

[EV_Ares]

33. Hey, here is my post, show me where it lacks civility, appears my reply

offended you, you did not offend me, only that I did not believe your assumptions or supposition of which you accused me. Actually you have no proof, only what you expect in the future, I am basing mine on what is actually and factually occurring and with what is to follow in the future and that part about the future is speculation as most all of yours is but is based on previous indicators and history of how all of this plays out.

Now, sorry if that offended you. I simply said I did not believe you and your speculation.

[gleaner]

35. You didn't offend me ..

I think you are reading into what I wrote. We could go on like this for ages saying "yes," "no," "yes," "no" like a couple of fractious kids but it wouldn't get us anywhere. I think experience is something people need to pay attention to. You think what you want to think, I'm not trying to tell you otherwise.

My point is that anything based on interpretation is open to question. You are interpreting, I am questioning. Tie me to proof somewhere that is empiric and does not depend on simply accepting another person's analysis when it runs against your own experience. What are your credentials for analyzing the stock market as it impacts the future of the economy? How long did you study micro economics and macro economics, because it isn't just our stock market. Our economy is tied to the economies of other countries we have trade relations, and treaties with. Our stock market is tied to Japan's. They directly affect each other. China owns most of our debt to other nations. If they tank or suddenly demand repayment, we are in trouble. Did you know that the Dow which is one index of how the stock market is doing is based on only 30 different stocks, while many more are actually traded. It is meant to be a sample and an indicator not a definitive measurement set in stone for ages to come. Compare it to the Nielson ratings if you will. The measure TV consumption and programs watched, but there aren't very many boxes so it is only a sampling. It is not empiric. Some types of TV it doesn't even measure. And so it goes.

You interpret, I disagree and say why. I interpret you disagree and say why. That is discussion. We don't have to ever agree and we don't have to like what the other is saying. The purpose of posting in a discussion forum is to exchange ideas. Period. Sometimes people see things from a different point of view, sometimes they don't. It doesn't matter. The idea is out there and floating around. You need to remember that your speculation and mine or anyone else's have equal value. You do not have the corner on being right. Neither do I, but since I have experienced a lot of economies and seen a lot of presidents both good and bad I'm going with what I have learned and staying there. By all means do the same for yourself with your own ideas if that is what you need to do. Just do not try to tell me that my experience is worth less than your speculation. That horse doesn't run.

[EV_Ares]

42. Wasn't trying to persuade you on anything. Now take it easy.

[EV_Ares]

34. I also do think that where it is going to be tough for average consumers and

low income workers is that the future is going to bring higher costs for borrowing with our deficit and inflation down the road. People will have to either pay for things as they go or pay high interest rates. Will actually have to go back to lifestyles like in past years before people started using credit cards and living within their means. The wealthy will be able to go on OK but even they in their large purchases will pay more as the government will.

By the way also thanks for the reply and no offense in any way. Also, have not been on this board for some time because it did lack civility and seems most only want to find the negative about any post or anything so moved to other neighbors where you can have a discussion about various topics and it is better when you can do that as you can learn and get new ideas. DU seems to have been infiltrated by those from the right.

[gleaner]

37. Don't worry ..

It really is alright.;) I have been paying as I do since 2008 when my husband nearly died and we found out that our house was underwater and was mortgaged for much more than it is now worth. Our bank failed and was taken over by Chase. We scuttled away from them very fast because they are bad news and manifest all that is bad about big banking. We don't use credit at all. We gave that up when Bush was still president because it was easy to see how things were going. The way he changed the bankruptcy laws basically denies any real relief or protection to anyone but the rich. These are very trying times and hard to live through. I agree with what you are saying here. Yoiks! Did you ever think that would happen?:fistbump:

You're welcome, and really don't worry about anything. I'm pretty easy and you didn't bug me or hurt my feelings. Welcome to DU. It has been kind of bumpy lately but it is getting better. There have been a lot of right wingers criss crossing here lately, but not all abrasive people are from the right. Everyone is different and I think it is good that we can get along as well as we do. Nice meeting you, and take care.

[EV_Ares]

43. Thanks, I will drink to that. eom.

[gleaner]

49. You're welcome. n/t

[EV_Ares]

46. You're Awesome, America! Why the U.S. recovery will be bigger, faster, and stronger than economists

and politicians expect.

The long-term decline of the U.S. economy has been greatly exaggerated. America is coming back stronger, better, and faster than nearly anyone expected—and faster than most of its international rivals. The Dow Jones industrial average, hovering near 11,000, is up 70 percent in the past year, and auto sales in the first quarter were up 16 percent from 2009. The economy added 162,000 jobs in March, including 17,000 in manufacturing. The dollar has gained strength, and the United States is back to its familiar position of lapping Europe and Japan in growth. Among large economies, only China, India, and Brazil are growing more rapidly than the United States—and they're doing so off a much smaller base. If the U.S. economy grows at a 3.6 percent rate this year, as Macroeconomic Advisers projects, it'll create $513 billion in new economic activity—equal to the GDP of Indonesia.

link to entire article: http://www.slate.com/id/2250374/

[gleaner]

48. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out when I have brain function n/t

[Bluebear]

53. :)

[laughingliberal]

40. The whole thing about the market being 'up' bothers me

I have to wonder on what basis is the market up? We have had no legislation pass to correct the problems which led to the crash. The legislation which passed the House is inadequate to prevent the same sort of abuses and now it sits in the more conservative Senate awaiting further gutting. I fear we are watching another bubble inflate. I have come to view the stock market as little better than my local casino. It is becoming just another way for the top 1% to steal more of our money. The stock market often goes up on news that is very bad for the average worker or consumer and we haven't seen the types of changes which would be necessary to change this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. EMPLOYMENT IS A LAGGING INDICATOR

that is why.

All them stats mean nothing until jobs start going into positive territory and CHIEFLY are felt to be going there.

(Yes they are already in positive territory)

[The Straight Story]

41. After 9/11 it was way down, went up from there under bush

did that mean his plans were working?

[conspirator]

44. This "Recovery" will last a couple of weeks nt

[TheFarseer]

45. F*ck the damn markets!

This is the same place where announced layoffs = good = stock going up because they don't have to pay those folks anymore - or so that's an excuse you might get. Stocks go up when more people want to buy them than sell them at the current price, and not for any other reason. Right now, no one knows what the hell else to do with their money because fixed income rates are so bad so they just put it in the stock market and it goes up. It does not mean the economy is getting better or worse or anything else.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. The Paradox

There is a paradox. As the GDP grows without a corresponding increase in the number of jobs available there will still be mass discontent and telling folks who are unemployed, underemployed, or too discouraged to look will only make them angrier.

Even the CBO predicts eight percent unemployment in 2012. That's horrible.

There can be no recovery when nearly one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed, or is too discouraged to look for a job.

[Bluebear]

51. The markets are awesome!!

[NeedleCast]

54. It would crush Republican chances of winning the white house in 2012

if the economy is in good shape and continuing to improve. The Republicants know they have to do whatever is possible, spin-wise, to continue the doom and gloom projections into 2012.

[Dr Morbius]

55. Yes, the recovery is real.

No, we haven't yet seen significant job growth.

Even when we do see significant job growth, it won't be enough. America's economy is decades away from really being strong, if it happens then. America needs a couple dozen million good-paying jobs, and that simply isn't in the cards.

But that doesn't mean the recovery isn't real, and that things won't get better. I work in a major Chicago hotel, and the hospitality business is a leading indicator of the economy (as companies gear up to put out new product or new marketing schemes, they hold meetings and training symposia). Across Chicago, the hospitality business is brisk. We're blowing last year's figures out of the water, as we should, because last year was awful. But we're also ahead of 2007 and 2008 in terms of occupancy predictions for the year. Now, I realize this is anecdotal, but it's real.

I think the economy will come roaring back. We'll see a couple million jobs created by election day. The 162,000 jobs created in March include some 121,000 in the private sector, a fact frequently glossed over by the right. There are legitimate reasons for optimism.

But this is just a swing, and not enough has been done to address the real problems behind the economic troubles of the last thirty years. Jobs fleeing the country, debt out of control, and unsecured financial markets only scratch the surface of the problems. If, however, we fix these problems as we go, there's reason for real hope.

Hope for America. Gee, where have I heard that recently? Hmm.