I am crying, and shaking and physically ill after reading this

[electprogdems]

what the fuck is wrong with this Country??? - We must take it back from the religioius wackos. Stuff like this just cannot be allowed to go on. i can't even begin to type a recap of the story without shaking. Someone else will have to do that

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myfoxtampabay.com%2Fmyfox%2Fpages%2FHome%2FDetail%3FcontentId%3D2212387%26version%3D3%26locale%3DEN-US%26layoutCode%3DTSTY%26pageId%3D1.1.1

[Unperson]

1. Police are friggin' idiots. I detest cops.

[Katherine Brengle]

10. I agree that they fucked up, but that's over the top --

My husband is a police officer and a damn good one. Who would you call if someone broke into your house at 3 am, or hurt you or one of your kids?

They're human, and they make mistakes - so does everyone else.

The majority of police officers in this country are doing good by their communities every single day, putting their lives on the line every goddamn day to keep your ass safe.

[ThomCat]

13. Police officers, as a group, tend to be

habitual bullies. I've had to speak to police 4 times in my life in 2 different cities, and they were rude, beligerant, and unhelpful each time. I've known several cops as friends of friends, or family of friends, and only one of them was a kind person. Add that to the constant stories of profiling and civil rights abuses, and I find it very difficult to respect police officers as people.

If my house gets broken into I'll call them, and I'll wonder whether or not they'll simply do their jobs politely and professionally and take a report. It seems that acting polite and professional is beyond most police officers.

Horrible behavior by cops is so common that this story doesn't surprise me at all. What surprises me is that it made the newspapers.

[Unperson]

19. delete sorry responded to wrong poster

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

24. This story isn't about cops...

Police officers don't decide who to charge with what -- this is about a county prosecutor who really needs to be voted out of office in the next election. What happened to this woman is beyond merely inexcusable, but it wasn't the fault of the police officers involved.

[ThomCat]

27. It is about the cops.

Cops don't check with the prosecutor before arresting someone. The cops make the call who to arrest and what to charge them with.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

30. Don't know much about police procedure, do you?

Cops can detain someone for questioning, but they don't decide who gets charged. Unless you're living in some freaky jurisdiction I've never heard of before, only a prosecutor can bring criminal charges.

[ThomCat]

32. So you really believe

that cops call the prosecutors for permission before arresting people? You're nuts.

The prosecutors don't get involved until After people get arrested unless there has been an investigation first that involved the prosecutor's office.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

35. It's not about belief...

Cops can detain and question a suspect, but they're not legally under arrest until prosecutor brings charges -- I was a reporter for several years and watched the process first-hand. I've never heard of a jurisdiction where the police are allowed to bring formal charges without a prosecutor being involved.

[ThomCat]

38. Tell that to the people who get arrested,

held, finger printed and go through hell like this woman. If a prosecutor comes in at the 11th hour and doesn't prosecute, that doesn't mean she wasn't arrested. It means she wasn't brought to trial.

[ThomCat]

39. Dupe

[mrcheerful]

41. Which the average citizen doesn't know and the cops exploit the lack of knowledge to get the person

to answer questions without a lawyer present. If you live in a state that doesn't video tape or record the "interview" then your best bet is to not answer any questions put to you unless a lawyer is present. Prisons are full of people who made the mistake of answering questions without legal aid.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

46. Got that right...

Without a lawyer present, I wouldn't give a police officer the time of day (literally).

[Katherine Brengle]

65. Arresting someone and charging them are not the same thing. nt

[Occulus]

81. Tell it to potential employers. n/t

[Katherine Brengle]

63. Um, no they don't need "permission" to arrest someone - there are already

rules about when and whom to arrest. Once they arrest is made, the officer files a report and then the case is turned over to the DA's office.

[mrcheerful]

97. You got that right, failure to show up at a police station for a criminal interview will end up in

a warrant of said persons arrest. You can also be charged with evading and eluding a police officer if you don't show up for a requested interview with police. Same thing applies to a crime committed in front of the police. Drunk drivers are charged before a DA ever see's a report on the incident. Btw, if you request a lawyer and you can not afford a lawyer, then you are arrested and jailed. You sit in jail until you see a judge, he appoints an attorney, and sets your bail. Catch 22 that most poor people get caught up in, they know that asking for a court appointed lawyer will get them arrested and jailed so to avoid both they try to talk their way out of the charges and end up confessing to the crime. Happens 1,000 of times a day nation wide.

[TygrBright]

25. I've mostly had good experiences with police...

...but I'm VERY well aware that a big part of the reason for that is that I am a law-abiding, non-threatening, middle-class white female who learned early on to treat officers of the law with respect for the job they do. Only a couple of those factors are in my control and I certainly can't take personal credit for the other ones.

That said, my impression overall is that cops are a very mixed bag, and much depends on the location, the leadership, and the budget available to make the job do-able. I HAVE seen lousy cops, bullying cops, dirty cops, etc., but in most cases (though not all by any means) I think that could be traced to the recruitment and training practices of the police force, and the leadership of senior officers and political leaders. There seems to be very little positive leadership in many areas. The Police Commissioners, Mayors, Chiefs of Police, etc., who think that stern warnings about "zero tolerance" for police misbehavior will do the trick are barking up the wrong tree.

And finally I think that the greatest share of responsibility rests where (ultimately) all responsibility for the public good rests: With us, the citizens. Do we want a police force that is professional, competent, intelligent, tough AND humane? Then we must both demand such a force and be prepared to pay for it, and we must support it when we have it. If, on the other hand, what we want is just a bunch of cheap near-thugs who will keep "the bad guys" out of sight/out of mind, well, that's what we'll get.

And it's a damn' shame for all the intelligent, competent men and women who sincerely want to serve their communities and end up in those police forces.

regretfully,
Bright

[we can do it]

64. Good For You, I Am Also A Law Abiding White Middle Class Home Owning Female

I have had to call the cops twice because of neighbors (renters) destroying my property. I was pretty much blown off because the idiots who lived next door happened to be male. The incident involved the bitch next door shoving me after I asked their son to stop riding his bike over drywall I had in my driveway, and I also said something to him about asking his parents to stop throwing their cigarette butts into my garden. These idiots also pulled up one of my trees.(The unemployed lazy ass dude was a Hannity fan...) It sucks when you call to make a report and the cops don't bother to ask neighbors across the street who saw the whole thing, but tell you - well, that's not what you r neighbors said happened WTF? I have also worked directly with police for several years, most of them are bigoted, women hating pigs, who think they are above the law. Ever notice how many of them get fired every year? You know they only catch some of the crap they pull, they pretty much cover up for each other. So don't try to tell me that if you are law abiding the cops will treat you rtight....in your dreams.

[shance]

73. Yes, the police world is often good ole boy and white, at that.

Of course there are great policemen out there. No question.

However, the police world was originally created by the white men and for the white men to be protected from everyone else, including their wives and women at large.

For the most part, the police world is not nearly as fair and protective to women and anyone else who is not a white male.

[we can do it]

76. I Agree with You, Too Often They Let Their Preconceived Notions Override Facts

Yes, there are good cops, but there are more with "little man syndrome" - the I'll show you who's boss types. I think possibly a good number of them were bullied in school and are now overcompensating.

[Katherine Brengle]

62. It seems to me that acting professional and polite is beyond most PEOPLE

no single group of professionals in particular.

I think the left has a disgusting bias against law enforcement in general, jmho.

[ThomCat]

77. The left has been targetted by law enforcement often enough.

There are good reasons for that bias. If people gets slapped often enough, they start to distrust the person who keeps slapping them.

[Raskolnik]

83. "There are good reasons for that bias."

There certainly are, so long as you ignore any evidence that contradicts your stereotypes.

If people gets slapped often enough, they start to distrust the person who keeps slapping them.

Isn't that an argument that would justify police distrusting "liberals" like yourself? After all, if a police officer extrapolated from certain posts on this thread, all liberals dislike, distrust, and generally demean police officers, right?

[ThomCat]

87. Right

because we on the left have any ability to slap the police. :eyes:

[Raskolnik]

89. You didn't really address the point.

Isn't the type of unthinking response to police officers that your posts demonstrate precisely the kind of unthinking response your decry when it comes from the police?

[ThomCat]

90. No.

Because this thread is full of good examples of why often the police can't be trusted, don't act professional, and are more concerned about their own authority than about other people's saftey.

How many people need to have bad experiences, and how often, and with how many different cops before you would accept that there's a problem?

Some people choose to be blind.

[Raskolnik]

91. Acknowledging the good performed by police isn't being blind to the bad officers

Do you honestly think that all (or even most) police officers care more about their own authority than about other people's safety?

[ThomCat]

95. Yes.

Most of them care about showing up at work, going home at the end of they day, and then getting paid at the end of the week. The idea that police officers have some special altruism is ridiculous.

The idea that any group of people who are given arbitrary authority somehow don't care about it and don't use it is equally ridiculous.

I am sure that each cop cares about the safety so some people, but that concern is almost certainly selective. Ask people in minority neighborhoods. Ask people near Indian Reservations. Ask people in most poor neighborhoods. So they're wonderful as long as you're one of the people who's safety they are concerned about, but I doubt very many police officers give a damn about they safety of all people in general.

If you give anyone arbitrary authority with little or no oversight, and then tell them to be altruistic, you would be a fool to blindly expect them to be altruistic. A few of them would be altruistic, but very few.

Edit for spelling.

[ThomCat]

109. From another thread here at DU

Seattle cops lost a lawsuit. The judge ruled that the cops violated the civil rights of protesters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2709572

It's already been discussed here many times that the cops attacked peaceful protesters, lied and claimed they were responding to provocations (even when video tapes showed the cops discussing the attack in advance showing that it was premeditated and unprovoked).

I've seen similar responses here in NYC repeatedly. And because they've been videotaped beating people so often now, cops now target photographers.

That's not a few bad apples. That's the entire department. That's an organized, coordinated action against innocent people.

[Raskolnik]

111. Oh! Well that changes everything!

Wait...no it doesn't.

[ThomCat]

113. Your post has no substance.

What's your point?

[Union Label]

92. I'm with you ThomCat

Of all the times that I have dealt with the brown shirts I only had one experience that I wasn't treated like dirt. I really hate cops they are a scourge on all freedom loving people. Check out this video that was made by the ACLU, its on how to get thru a meeting with these fascists. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmC5wHfCdM&mode=related&search

[Raskolnik]

93. How much freedom do you think you'd have if all the police, good and bad, disappeared?

I really hate cops they are a scourge on all freedom loving people.

I can't decide if you're a troll or just that simple-minded. Maybe both.

[Union Label]

94. I don't mind if you don't believe me or not

But after witnessing someone getting the shit kicked out of them by the police on more than one occasion with a promise from them that if we saw anything we were next, you really can develop a hatred for them.

[Raskolnik]

101. You didn't answer the question.

What do you think would happen if every police officer were to disappear tomorrow?

[ThomCat]

102. It's an absurd question.

It implies that the only choice is cops as corrupt as they are now, or no cops at all.

[Raskolnik]

107. Its in response to an absurd statement

namely, that "(cops) are a scourge on all freedom loving people".

If the poster truly believes that, or if you agree with that sentiment, then the question is perfectly reasonable.

[Union Label]

105. You won't like my answer

There will be a lot less stealing and murders.

[Raskolnik]

108. There would be less theft and murder with no police, huh?

I'd love to hear an explanation for that.

[Leopolds Ghost]

114. Organized crime in the U.S. stems from prohibition. You'll have a hard time proving otherwise.

Criminal prohibition policies create an underground economy and MASSIVE amounts of crime which you yourself have become inured to,

which entire police forces benefit from.

You see a similar phenomenon in a different arena with jurisdictions that rely on speeding tickets to pay for police and schools, without actually caring whether the speed of traffic is reduced.

Ask them to narrow the roads so that it would be dangerous for cars to drive over the speed limit, and they will look at you funny.

So I ask of you, imagine how much crime in this country there would be if we DID have a police force. For the answer, look around. Do you lock your doors at night? Why? You have become inured to levels of crime so high that they prompt you to lock your doors.

[Raskolnik]

118. Those are legislative issue, not law enforcement.

I agree that prohibition encourages much illegal activity. Last time I checked, though, it was our representatives in Congress & the state legislatures that are responsible for those laws, not the local police department.

The question is what would happen if the "scourge on freedom loving people" were to disappear tomorrow?

[Union Label]

127. Ok I'll answer

Then 74 year old veterans wouldn't get beat up by the thugs you keep defending.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5099999

War vet, 74, says cops roughed him up
Police may have thought he had a gun; 'officers decided to go hands-on,' says one report
By Matthew D. LaPlante
and Jeremiah Stettler
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 01/27/2007 06:42:25 PM MST


Click photo to enlargeMiles Lund, 74, a wounded Korean War veteran who likes to... (Chris Detrick/The Salt Lake Tribune)«1»A 74-year-old Korean War veteran was held at gunpoint and then tackled by Salt Lake City police officers after he refused to comply with orders to raise his hands above his head.
Miles Lund said he tried to tell the officers - who believed he was carrying a gun - that his war injuries rendered his right arm immobile.
"But they just wouldn't listen," he said.
Instead, according to witness accounts and a police report, at least three officers tackled the man, wrestling him to the ground at Liberty Park and wrenching his arms behind his back to handcuff him.
Lund said at least one officer also kicked him in the ribs.

[Raskolnik]

129. No, you still didn't really answer.

You answered with an example of police doing their job very, very poorly. As is indicated by many other posts on this thread, the existence of bad officers is not really contested by me or anyone else here. I understand very well both the existence and the consequences of corrupt and/or bad police officers.

The question was what would happen to our society if you could wave a magic wand and make the "scourge on freedom loving people" disappear completely. No traffic cops, no detectives, no street patrol, no jails, no emergency responders, none of them. What do you think would happen?

[ThomCat]

96. You have to realize

that the police were instituted to protect property, and rich people, not all people. Even now when police are supposed to protect everyone that protection is always uneven. Rich white people get consistent safety. Almost everyone else has to worry as much about the cops as they do about the criminals.

It's nice that there are cops to keep the criminals scared and careful, but do they have to keep the rest of us scared too?

[Raskolnik]

100. I realize that police do not exist in a societal vacuum. That's not really news.

Of course the rich and privileged generally receive better services from the government, and police services are no exception. Police officers are subject to the same prejudices and failings as the rest of us. Some police officers let their prejudices get the better of them, just like some lawyers, doctors, and teacher do.

Almost everyone else has to worry as much about the cops as they do about the criminals.

You can't be serious.

[ThomCat]

103. I am serious.

I'm a white, middle ages, middle class guy who's clearly physically disabled. I'm one of those people you think the cops would be trying to at least appear to protect. As as I've already posted, I'm had nothing but bad encounters with cops.

Others have posted the same thing.

In decades of volunteer work I've listened to countless other volunteers, clients, neighborhood kids, people in soup kitchens and people everywhere I've volunteered. Distrust of cops is common, and it isn't an because all of these people just woke up one morning and decided on a whim that cops can be a problem.

I'm in NYC, and I've stood and watched cops at demonstrations and rallies. I've watched their hostility.

Take a look at all the videos that are now available online of police brutality, and how much more often are they brutal when there's no video camera?

People do need to worry about the cops far more often than you are willing to accept. But whether you accept it or not is irrelevant. It just shows that you're naive and sheltered.

[Raskolnik]

110. You're avoiding the issue.

Simply repeating ad nauseum that there are bad police officers doing bad things in the world may make you feel like you're scoring rhetorical points, but it simply isn't the issue. There is no one here arguing that all police officers are good at their job and free from corruption. I've been involved in legal issues arising out of some of the most horrible conduct imaginable performed by LEO's. I don't need YouTube to show me what can happen when authority is abuse. I've also seen firsthand LEO's literally save others' lives while putting their own at risk.

The issue is whether or not you're willing to acknowledge that even with the existence of bad officers, the good ones do in fact exist and should be supported.

[ThomCat]

112. I'm not avoiding the issue. You are.

It's not a couple of bad cops. It's entire departments. It's the culture of law enforcement.

You can't have the volume to abuse, and the scope of large civil rights abuses, unless it's a problem throughout the department. Look at how much of the civil rights movement has had to target law enforcement abuses.

Insisting that it's a rare problem doesn't make it so.

Yes, some cops are good people and try to do a good job, but if you're in a corrupt environment just going along with the way things are means you're helping with the corruption.

[Raskolnik]

115. You didn't really just go with "No I'm not, you are", did you?

Let's try this again: I'm not arguing that police corruption doesn't exist, nor am I arguing that it isn't a problem. A bad officer does horrendous damage to all of us. Again, I don't need to rely on the internet for this, I've seen the results with my own eyes. Those officers, and those departments, should be prosecuted vigorously and aggressively. Unfortunately, it does happen all too often that societal problems are reflected in the police force.

I am arguing that blanket statements condemning the entire group are willfully ignorant. For every instance you've referenced that highlights police misconduct, I could post a dozen demonstrating officers behaving commendably under very unfavorable circumstances. I'm perfectly willing (eager, actually) to condemn bad police work, but you have demonstrated no similar willingness to recognize the good that is performed by police.

[ThomCat]

119. Oh please.

You're looking for someone to sing praises of all those hard working wonderful police officers who selflessly put their lives on the line day after day, looking down barrels of criminal's guns every day before lunch. :eyes:

You've been drawn out, throughout this thread, to finally admit that there is corruption, and that it is widespread, but you're still looking for cheerleaders.

Law enforcement is a racket, like everything else. I'll love and respect the good cops when I finally meet some.

One retired cop (of several that I know) I thought was a really nice guy, but I know that on the job he went along to get along. So if that's the best I've ever met, where are these upstanding, virtuous defenders you keep talking about?

[Raskolnik]

123. If *you've* never experienced it, it must not exist, right?

I know you're being sarcastic, but you know what? The world does contain some wonderful police officers that *do* act selflessly, that *do* put their lives on the line day after day, and *do* look down the barrels of criminal's guns sometimes. Here in Chicago, there are literally hundreds of examples every week where police officers put themselves at risk to help someone else. There are also numerous examples of bad officers every week, unfortunately. Do not assume that just because you're unwilling to remove your blinders, the rest of the world is so limited.

Have a good evening.

[ThomCat]

124. You're the one wearing blinders.

I don't assume that what I haven't seen doesn't exist. I just assume it's rare, and you've said nothing and presented no evidence to show otherwise. You're just insisting that I'm wrong simply because you want me to be wrong. I hope you enjoy that bubble you live in.

[hfojvt]

117. the thing is that most people are similarly sheltered

Police are a problem for minorities and people who live or hang out on the streets. That's not most people.

[ThomCat]

121. Minorities not most people?

If you take everyone who is black, hispanic, asian, identifiably GLBT, and/or poor you've got the majority. What percentage of people are left?

And that part about people who hang out on the street sounds like a slur. Are you saying that all people who dislike the police are hanging out on the street? And what, exactly, is wrong with hanging out on the street?

[Unperson]

20. The cops in my community are ALL corrupt.

One of them was brought up on charges of giving a fourteen year old girl Crystal Methamphetamine and then raping her. The charges were dropped. The women in my community all tell new people not to stop for this one cop because if you are a single woman, driving alone he is likely to accost you. I'll say 90 per cent of them are despicable corrupt assholes and I hate the whole lot them. That is still my right, isn't it? Or must I smile while I hand the executioner the blade with which he will cut my throat?

[Raskolnik]

23. How can you argue with anecdotal evidence like that? n/t

[ThomCat]

31. When the anecdotal evidence starts to pile up

it starts to be more than mere anecdote. When enough people start having the same experiences it becomes a pattern and it becomes credible.

[Raskolnik]

34. And your vast resevoir of evidence comes from a lifetime total of four (4) encounters?

I'm not arguing the point that some police officers are, indeed corrupt and/or assholes that are not good at their job. I am arguing that extrapolating an amazingly small amount of experience to impugn an entire group of people that do a very, very difficult job is rather silly.

[ThomCat]

36. 4 official encounters

plus the people I've met socially many times, plus the encounters of many people I've known and the many encounters people have posted here.

Minimize it all you want, but you're just whitewashing attrocities. It's people who insist that cops are sterling and need to be constantly given the benefit of the doubt over and over and over again who allow things like this story to happen.

Cops have a lot of power and authority, and very little oversight. Civilian review boards are a joke with no authority. You put authoritarian people in a position with that much power, and no oversight, and abuses happen. No fairytales about how saintly and devoted cops are is going to change that.

[Raskolnik]

44. Oh, please. I'm not "whitewashing atrocities", I'm calling bullshit on blanket statements

I am quite aware of what happens when police officers abuse their position. (Google "Jon Burge" and read about some of the things that can happen). I don't insist that "cops are sterling" nor do I believe that police are "saintly". That kind of nonsense only serves to distort the conversation and provide you with straw-men to knock down.

I do argue that police officers are people. Not all good, not all bad, just people. And I happen to think that they are people doing a very, very difficult job without which we simply couldn't function as a society. I've known a lot of LEO's in my life, and some of them I wouldn't trust to walk me across the street. Others, however, have done an amazing amount of good and helped countless people by doing their jobs well. I'm sorry if you think that's a fairytale because it doesn't fit your rather simplistic view of the situation, but the world is a lot bigger than your four official encounters.

[ThomCat]

47. And yet, with all that supposed nuance

your point is still that we shouldn't talk about what police do, or draw any conclusions about it, because you know so much better than all of us. :eyes:

[Raskolnik]

57. Again, straw-men are not necessarily useful to the discussion.

If you could kindly point out where I suggested any such thing, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll assume its more knee-jerk nonsense that only obscures the actual issue.

We certainly should talk about what police do, we should view their actions and rationalizations with skepticism, and we should tolerate absolutely no corruption. Bad police officers do an amazing amount of damage to society and make the job that much more difficult for honest/good officers.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

59. In northern Illinois there are three separate groups

First - chicago cops. for the most part, well trained, and extremely professional. These guys (collectively male and female) are some of the best, street smart people around. Sure, there have been true criminals lik Commander Burge, a retired detective now on trial for beating confessions out of innocents, and a few who were moles for the Chicago Mafia, but the large majority are superb.

Then you have suburban cops. these break down into two groups. Some, like Evanston, Orland Park and a few other locales, have highly trained, responsive and good cops. I trust them and I know how much to push them in court. But, a large majority of other suburbs' cops would find it hard to work in the real world. Their love of carrying a gun, driving a new, shiny car with way too many lights (ever notice that the smaller the police force, the greater number of lights they install on their squad cars?) and they get to go really fast for no reason. These guys can be real idiots. Dangerous, thuggish, pushy and il-trained, dealing with them on a professional level is something else.

Of course we have state cops, county cops, forest preserve cops and semi-private cops, all with various levels of experience and training, but of all of the above, one group truly stands out. and not as outstanding, but the opposite. The Homeless Scrutiny Assholes who hired Transporation Security Apes have to be the worst trained, least capable, most arrogant, decisively pushy, dumber than a pet rock, and the most likely to arrest or threaten arrest for no reason other than your making eye contact with them.

Think of FBI rejects on speed.

[Bjornsdotter]

60. You forgot

....the "good old boy" cops that we have up by the border. I had a problem with our local sheriff over finger printing our 1st graders for ID kits. I finally contacted the County Sheriffs who said they would be happy to do it and they would pay for the kits. Local Sheriff had a hissy fit and asked me who I thought I was to go over his head. County Sheriff came to my house to warn me that the local guy was going to try to get me back and gave me his card and cell number....told me to call him immediately if I was ever pulled over by the local cops. He also told the local sheriff to be careful because they were watching.

Fortunately, the local guy is gone and I still run into the County Sheriff occasionally.

Cheers

[we can do it]

69. Too Funny About the Lights - Our Town's Cruisers Could Bring On a Seizure

[Katherine Brengle]

66. So one bad cop means they are all bad, right? That's some super

deductive reasoning for you.

[ThomCat]

79. So if someone mentions patterns of corruption

and gives one example, you assume that only that one example happened?

That's some super deductive reasoning for you.

[Raskolnik]

85. Examples, please.

Who mentioned one example and assumed that only one example happened? This wouldn't be another example of the straw-man, would it?

[Occulus]

86. I had my home invaded by seven of them for a noise complaint

They proceeded to perform a search- opening closets and drawers- until I herded them all into the living room and collectively got their names and badge numbers. For this, I earned a cracked rib when one of them shoved me into an interior doorknob.

Two of them were wearing 'training' badges on their uniforms.

YOU tell ME if I should have any trust in the people wearing uniform.

Ten years ago, several hundred dollars' worth of video games and other electronics- including two game systems- were stolen from my apartment. The person who stole them- whom I knew- left a note saying he was 'borrowing' it. He even signed it. Not only was the value of the items minimized (the police refused to value it at retail price, and downgraded it until it was a small claims case) but in fact refused to pursue the case any further, even though they knew exactly what was stolen and who stole it.

So, that's twice- once with stolen property and once with a case of actual brutality and illegal searches- that I've had bad experiences.

No, three times. One fine fall afternoon I was jogging and a cop stopped me to question who I was, where I was going, and where I lived. Then he drove off.

I think you may be deeply out of touch regarding how exactly police today behave.

[ThomCat]

88. I walk with a cane.

I had cops stop me and demand to see my prescription for the cane and all but accused me of walking around with a weapon.

I've had my home burglarized and had cops refuse to even take a report.

I had a roommate disappear unexpectedly for 4 days. I tried to file a missing person's report. The cops asked me if we were lovers and had a spat. They all laughed and refused to take a report.

I had someone stalking me and sending me threating mail. The cops laughed at me when I tried to report it and file a complaint. They accused me of being the harrasser's lover and told me that it's what I deserve for knowing someone "like that."

Yeah, I have lots of reasons to respect cops. I've seen them be so respectful. And their jobs are so dangerous when they're sitting behind a desk mocking people and refusing to fill out a report. :eyes:

[Unperson]

126. Look, I'm not trying to defend a peer reviewed paper I wrote or anything.

I hate cops. I have good reason. It is my personal experience, what I have seen in the news and witnessed first hand has brought me to this conclusion. It is my sound opinion. Cops are fascist pigs. Fuck em'. I'm not trying to prove anything to you. I really don't care what you think.

[Dorian Gray]

56. I agree....

Father in law is a cop, and he's one of the kindest and most honest men you will meet. There are good apples and bad apples out there. Hopefully, the bad apples who arrested this woman will be punished and held accountable.

[Raskolnik]

21. I detest people that do an incredibly vital job for relatively little money

People that put themselves at risk for the safety of others, people without whom society would rapidly deteriorate, people who unfortunately suffer from the same flaws as the rest of humanity...those people are *assholes*.

[Unperson]

42. OK which of your family members is a cop?

Or are you a cop?

[Raskolnik]

45. Father is a retired deputy sheriff

Now would you care to address my post, or would you rather make this personal?

[Unperson]

48. You are making this personal and you clearly have an agenda.

[ThomCat]

51. Agreed.

Nobody knows better than him because he knows a retired cop. Everyone else's experience is too limited to draw conclusions, and everyone else's experience is just anecdotal. But his opinions are authoritative.
:eyes:

[Raskolnik]

55. No, I'm certainly not authoritative

And I'm not claiming that my experience is 100% representative. That is why I'm not the one making blanket statements about how all police are (insert character trait here).

To do so would be rather silly, no?

[Raskolnik]

52. My "agenda" is arguing that your post is utter bullshit.

I don't really care who you are, I just think you make a remarkably moronic statement.

Perhaps you could point out which of these statements you take issue with: (1)police officers are asked to perform a very difficult, often dangerous, job; (2)society could not function without someone performing that job; and (3)while some police officers are indeed corrupt and/or bad at their job, many others are very good at it and we all benefit from their effort.

[Katherine Brengle]

68. So our opinions are invalid while yours is perfectly valid?

I call bullshit big time.

[ThomCat]

80. So because you like cops

those of us with bad experiences are wrong?

I call bullshit big time.

[Katherine Brengle]

116. Never said "I like cops" -- what I said was

that they are human beings and all human beings sometimes fuck up.

Many of them are good, honest people just trying to do a little good in their communities.

Just as those many do not eliminate the few bad ones, the few bad ones do not eliminate the many good ones.

Keep your blinders on if you like.

[ThomCat]

125. You assume

that there are few bad ones and many good ones. I think that ratio is backwards, and I think history and evidence is on my side. But keep your blinders on if you like.

[ThomCat]

50. Yes, many of them are.

Yes, many of them have dangerous jobs. But that isn't an excuse for abuses of power. It's amazing how many excuses people make to defend abuses of power.
:eyes:

[Raskolnik]

58. Your logic is faulty

Arguing that a statement such as "Police are friggin' idiots" is foolish is not excusing abuses of power.

[Katherine Brengle]

67. I hope this was missing from that post ----

:sarcasm:

[Raskolnik]

75. Yes, it was definitely sarcastic. n/t

[Common Sense Party]

82. I agree completely. Cops do a thankless job, get paid less

than teachers, and get shit on (often literally) by the community. While there are occasionally a-hole cops (just as in the civilian population), by and large they are great men and women who deserve our respect--unless they specifically and individually do something to lose it.

It sickens me how so many DU'ers are knee-jerking, declaring "all" cops are racists, fascists and scum.

And no, I am not a cop, and have never been related to one.

[Katherine Brengle]

120. Thank you. nt

[LittleClarkie]

99. They've been pretty good to me

Though a few in this suburb I live in can be Nazis, mostly out of boredom than anything.

[skipos]

122. There are plenty of good cops out there.

You're statement is as ridiculous as saying "soldiers are idiots" because of Abu Ghraib, the water bottle taunting, etc.

SOME police are idiots.

[babylonsister]

2. You're not alone:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x78819

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2708804

[AndyA]

3. Well, for one, the medical supervisor who forced her religious beliefs on

the woman needs to be fired immediately. She is not qualified for her position. And I hope the woman sues the ever lovin' sh!t out of everyone involved, as she was not treated properly at all.

Then she needs to sue them again for wrongful arrest, since she should have never been arrested in the first place if it was based on a paperwork error.

You are exactly right - something is very wrong with this country, and to fix it we must SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE. It has never worked, it will never work, and that is why things suck so bad for so many right now.

This story made me angry as well. :mad:

[LeftishBrit]

11. I agree

That is beyond disgusting; what a way to treat a victim of a horrible crime.

A lot of it sounds like sheer incompetence, which causes a lot of the world's evils.

As regards the medical supervisor, if your beliefs prevent you from prescribing emergency contraception, then you shouldn't take a job where you're likely to have to do so, and especially NOT working with rape victims.

I hope she does sue the hell out of them all; sadly, this would mean her having to relive these horrible experiences.

[ThomCat]

17. I agree on all points.

x(

[we can do it]

72. This Is the Main Point Here I Believe and I Agree, As Well As Pharmacists....

who push their morality on others.

[Reverend_Smitty]

4. That poor woman was raped twice

Once by her attacker and once by the system. I cannot believe that the jail refused to give her the morning after pill, that is absolutely deplorable

[halobeam]

5. Skimmed it for the points to be taken.

couldn't stomach much of the details myself.

WTF is wrong with this country. I'll tell you what. This supervisor, IMO, should be sued for a damn good number of reasons, along with a whole host of others who were involved. I wouldn't let this go, if I were this poor, poor woman. I'd get immediate therapy and legal counsel simultaneously.

What a freakin' disgrace.:grr:

edit to add: recommended.

This is PAST an outrage!!

[slackmaster]

6. Take a deep breath. It's not the country that did this.

Tampa Bay, Florida.

Florida.

Florida.

[Shoelace]

15. Florida

have to agree. Look to the state itself, the massive corruption therein. Also, was she a white woman or a woman of color? Hard questions but they need to be asked.
Florida is on my "do not visit" list.

[madfloridian]

Saw her blurred picture on local TV...she's white, and seems very pretty.

And it sounds like she truly thought the 4-year old charges were taken care of. Like she was accused of something, but no proof. :shrug:

[slackmaster]

61. I have to be a little skeptical that she had no clue about the charges

But what she was charged with does not justify the way she was treated.

[Shoelace]

71. makes you wonder if

say, you are injured in an accident but have a very old warrent for some inconsequential thing (too many parking tickets? whatever), would they treat your injuries first or haul you in first, THEN treat your injuries?:yoiks:

[pacalo]

7. I'm surprised they didn't stone her!

It's outrageous & unconscionable that the girl's rape didn't get their full, immediate attention, & the fact that she wasn't allowed the Morning After pill proves that our laws have been hijacked by the religious nuts.

[hlthe2b]

8. I hope the ACLU takes up her case....

I was incredulous (although I shouldn't be by now) to read this, this morning...:mad:

[nam78_two]

9. K&R...repulsive

WTF...I just saw the part about the morning after pill :wtf:
My goodness...There are no words..A rape victim denied contraception :wtf:...

Why are these religious lunatics in positions like this...If your "beliefs" don't permit you to give someone contraception, don't take the fricking job :grr:.....

[pdrichards114]

12. What happened to separation of Church and State!

And why the fuck is the state supporting one person's religous convictions over another. To cap it all off the Pigs take a person to jail who has just been raped. This society is completely fucked. There are so many good things about people in this country but the few proverbial bad apples have morphed into a whole fucking orchard and ruining everything they touch.

[Tyo]

14. As far as the Religious Right is concerned there is no separation of church and state.

Never has been in their view.

[pdrichards114]

22. You are correct, but regardless this is a country of laws,

and its about time we the people start acting in accordance with our own laws. It's time to shut these Christo-Facists down.

[Tyo]

37. Couldn't agree more

But it's gotten to the point (and I don't think I'm being TOO paranoid) at which the CFs seem to be everywhere. At least in some parts of the country we are asking Christo-fascists to enforce the law against other Christo-fascists and I don't think that they are inclined to do it.

[pdrichards114]

43. I'm beyond asking anymore!

If they can't do their jobs, under the powers granted them by the constitution, then they should be fired. Citing religious reasons in a public servant's position of power for either performing, or in this case failing to perform the duties of the office should be grounds for immediate and unconditional termination.

Just a hope and a dream.

[Tyo]

49. Would that it were that easy.

These people didn't get the power that they have today without knowing how to manipulate the system and without being plain ole in-your-face f--k you ballsy. Got to give them credit, they've done their work well.

[pdrichards114]

54. Too true. I guess they applied the 'ole Christian Work ethic.

To bad the end result isn't ethical.

[Strathos]

16. When is the "religious" excuse illegal?

Should the woman that refused to give the rape victim the pill be suspended?

How far are we going to let them carry this "religious excuse" until something is done about it.

I'm sick of them myself.

[Pithlet]

28. But, according to them and those who support them

We're infringing on THEIR rights for insisting they do their job, don't you see? If we don't allow them to insinuate themselves and their beliefs between us and our doctors and block prescriptions, we're infringing on their freedom of religion, or if they're a corporation, their freedom to basically do whatever the hell they want regardless of the consequences to any individual or the community at large. It's insane.

[we can do it]

74. They Need To Stay Out of Public Life If They Don't Want To Play By the Rules

[Tyo]

84. I don't think it's as simple as not wanting to play by the rules

They want to remake public life in their own image

[we can do it]

128. I Agree - I Probably Didn't Word My Response Correctly

I am sick to death of ANY religious asshole who feels the need to impose their religion on anyone else. Fine if they want to practice their religion off the clock, but don't bring your shit to me at work. If I am asking (paying) for a service, that's what I want, not what the person I am paying to do their job thinks I should have. Sheesh can you imagine going to buy paint and having the counter person saying "blue??? oh no its against my religion to touch anything blue. You'll have to go to another store to get anything blue." Its about that stupid. Do your job right or find another one.

[Missy Vixen]

18. If you truly want your anger and disgust to be noted

Please write to the mayor of that city and tell them that not only will you never attend the Gasparilla festival there, that you will spread the word amongst friends and family to stay out of Tampa as well.

Money talks. If women throughout the country get the idea that they are not safe to visit Tampa, those tourist dollars dry up.

It's worth a try. They're more concerned about the tourism money drying up than about their policies. Believe me.

Julie

[LaBanty]

26. another case of the "rest of us"...

being manipulated by Fundies. To deny this woman contraception after rape was purely a judgment call made by one of the many poster children of Judgment. And, you know, this f*ck'tard pharamacist will suffer no consequences because his or her legal right to deny contraception (for religious reasons) is legally protected. (Gawd and baby Jeezus both love babies born from rape, since all life is precious, dontchya know.)

And, speaking of religious extremists, the only thing that would ice the cake on this tragedy is if her own family killed her for "dishonoring them", because, after all, they're just practicing their f*cked up religion. Let's not forget another religion that thinks the person actually raped has dishonored their family, and must be killed. I mean - in all fairness - it isn't just the goddamned Fundie Christians that are mentally ill.

I liked religion a helluva lot better when it was practiced underground and out of the mainstream. Like, in the catacombs. As long as religious Fundies are emboldened, empowered, and unaccountable - we will continue to be victims of every wacko's f*cked up ideologies.

[twilight_sailing]

29. A bird in the hand

is worth two in the bush, I guess.

It's so much EASIER for the lazy cops, isn't it?

Lazy, heartless bastards.

[mnhtnbb]

33. Absolutely unbelievable, until you realize it's Florida. But it

could also happen in any small town that's been taken over by right wing whackos.
After six years of Bushie boy emboldening these fundinazis, it's going to take a lot of work and a long time to reduce their power.

[pat_k]

40. Step 1: Re-assert the terms of our common contract (the Constitution)

We cannot effectively oppose the fascist factions in a burning house.

It is impossible for our leaders to speak in inspiring terms about who we are as a nation if they refuse to point to the fascist "unitary authoritarian executive" and say:

"That is the OPPOSITE of who we are, and Americans must prove it by removing the threat these lawless men pose to the Constitution; our common contract; the soul of the nation. Bush and Cheney have put that contract into breach. The ONLY way to reassert the terms is through Impeachment, the sole mechanism we established to defend against such attacks from within."

Impeachment is a message of hope, and a declaration of our power. It is the means by which our Congressional leaders can inspire the nation to oppose religious reactionaries and other fascist factions.

It's gonna take http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3086616&mesg_id=3086616">a Big Clue Stick to wake up the Congressional leadership to the stark reality of Bush World and their duty to get us OUT.

[Dorian Gray]

53. That is a horrific story

I'm shocked that something like this happened, and I truly hope that the police department is held accountable. It's awful.

[Kat 333]

70. Unbelievable

The US is a scary, spooky, place. Florida is exceptionally terrifying.

[derby378]

78. WHY am I not surprised in the least?

:mad:

[Verde]

98. It's as if Mary Baker Eddy was reincarnated with a mix of Toquamada and Stalin

to make these things happen.

[MrSlayer]

104. Religious fundamentalists have no place in the medical field.

What a disgrace it is for someone in that position to place her beliefs over the wishes of the victim and the recommendations of the doctors.

[timtom]

106. I'm with you on this

I want to scream. The insanity of it makes my brain bleed.

[pinto]

130. Locking.

Discussion here has veered off topic from the original post and has increasingly become a stew of personal sniping.

Thanks for your consideration.