To those who think George W. Bush was a "bumbling moron"...

[Ardent15]

...just remember, he got most of what he wanted.

He's a mean-spirited, ruthless prick, ever since the days when he bullied people at Yale.

People will say "Oh, but Cheney did most of that" or "Rove did this", but the ultimate decision for all that horrible shit was at George W. Bush's desk.

He's no genius, but he was smart enough to market himself as a "good ole boy from Texas" when in reality, he's a member of the most powerful family behind the Military-Industrial-Investor-Intelligence Complex.

[Jim Sagle]

1. For those inclined to give him a break, this may help:

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. No, Chimpy really WAS a bumbling moron

But he wasn't the first idiot frontman for the Bush Crime Family (Reagan & Ford also fit that description) he just happened to be the first idiot to have Bush DNA.

[Ardent15]

5. To call him a moron implies that he was stupid, that he didn't know better...

Bush wasn't just a frontman, he was in the thick of it since helping his Daddy get elected with smear campaigns. IIRC, he helped work on that Willie Horton ad. He was a member of the Carlyle Group and had plenty of ties to the Saudis through investments.

He wasn't, however, smart enough to be President, IMO.

[Richard Steele]

12. Dubya was a sockpuppet- he never helped anyone do anything. nm

[RufusTFirefly]

16. Carlyle Group's managing director on George Bush...

"...when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. ...Could you put him on the board? ...

I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.

Abbreviated only for space concerns. Full transcript from Democracy Now

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Where's the quote about his IQ? Or that he's an idiot or a moron?

No one has claimed that bush junior was brilliant or an amazing intellect.

However, some posters claim repeatedly that he was a moron, in other words, mentally deficient. No where in what you pasted does the person at Citi make the claim of below average intelligence, does he? Did i miss something?

Or is your point that anyone who isn't perceived as brilliant and hardworking is a moron or a bumbling idiot?

[RufusTFirefly]

29. Take a stress pill. I'm just contributing some additional context

Strictly speaking, if Bush were truly a moron, he'd have an IQ of between 50 and 69.
A lot of people are engaging in hyperbole here. Including you.
Why else would you suggest that historical ignorance of the Reagan-Bush relationship would have any bearing on a person's IQ?

[John Q. Citizen]

31. I'm not stressed. I'm just trying to fight the myth that bush has below average intelligence

It gets repeated over and over, and I think it gets in the way of understanding what's going on in the world.

Somehow there are some liberals who find it to be a comforting thought, but i think it lets bush off the hook for his very real and dangerous crimes.

It's kind of a diminished capacity defense of greed and avarice.

And yes, you are correct that not knowing that bush and Reagan had no love lost between them has nothing to with a persons IQ. So I'm guilty as charged on that count.

[RufusTFirefly]

34. Truth be told, I agree with your basic thesis

The "idiot" and "incompetent" memes are just way too easy as explanations.
They get us off the hook from confronting the root causes.
As does the "Germans were evil" conclusion that allows us to sidestep investigating the origins of Nazism.

[paulsby]

39. there was a great SNL skit about reagan and his faux bumbling routine

and then when the press etc. walked out of the room he became all intellectual and ruthless and stuff

great clip

i don't think bush is a great intellect by any stretch of the imagination, but he most definitely is not a moron, (50-69). if i had to guess, i'd guess an IQ around 110

[woofless]

38. I think you are giving the guy way too much credit.

I do not believe he had any real input into his own policies. He is totally a puppet. Shit for brains too.

[dem mba]

57. there are multiple types of intelligence

spatial, analytical, linguistics, etc.

I think W was a pretty brilliant bullshitter. He was great at small talk, and that serves you well in politics. I don't think he was a total shit for brains like you do; he is probably of average intelligence. Unfortunately, for the POTUS, that simply is not good enough.

In any event, he was smart enough to get elected twice. Even if Rove led the charge, W still had to sign off on it.

[woofless]

62. So you are telling me that his intellectual capacity was a deciding

factor in his selection? Really? Amazing.Both of those "elections" were stolen and W's mental capacity had nothing to do with it.I contend that they were engineered on his behalf by those who used him and his position to further their cause.

[dem mba]

65. of course he was used

that's obvious.

He was a good bullshitter. He was charming on a personal level. He had powerful friends. He had lots of powerful friends. He had lots of the "right" kind of powerful friends. He was the right kind of Christian. I'm trying to say that we're both right.

The 2000 election was punked, no question. But even still, Bush garnered around 50 million votes, no small feat.

IMO, someone like Palin would still have lost the 2000 election because she wouldn't have won over enough moderate voters. Bush had appeal, and was marketed well by his handlers.

[stlsaxman]

49. As the GOP presidential field stands today... a perfect setting for Jeb.

:yoiks:

[John Q. Citizen]

8. The Reagan's and the bush's hate each others guts. You aren't

showing off your high IQ, that's for sure.

You do realize that the Hinckley family are old friends and close allies of the bush family, right? John Hinckley, the son, almost took Reagan out. Missed by an inch.

[Sebastian Doyle]

11. Take a look at "Reagan's" cabinet from 1981

With the exception of Edwin Meese and Don Regan, all of them were Bush Crime Family loyalists. Poppy picked that cabinet, not Ronnie. Now that's not to say Ronnie didn't TRY to be the actual President, at least for the first two months of his term. We all know what happened then.........

[John Q. Citizen]

20. No, that's not true. Haig and bush weren't allies at all. Meese wasn't in until 1985, and

William French Smith and bush weren't allies, either.

Watt and bush weren't allies.

Reagan and bush had just fought a bitter primary and Reagan brought him in to try to encourage party unity.

Who in the cabinet are you claiming was a bush proteges or allies? Give me their names. Who in the cabinet are you claiming were bush allies?

[Bucky]

68. I'd name Weinberger, Jim Baker, Mal Baldrige, and David Stockman

If I can horn in here, Poppy Bush had a very broad network of associates and colleagues within the Republican party, but didn't have loyalists & croneys the way Reagan did. He was never a personal leader of movement like Nixon, Reagan, or Dubya. He was more a top of his class sort of team player who positioned himself well at the nexus between the CIA's broader business community and the boardroom culture of the Republican establishment. I can't think of any suck ups to Bush like Reagan had with the more corrupt members of his administration (Donovan, Sam Pierce, Watt, Ann Burford, etc.). The true fuckups in Reagan's team were his western state sycophants. Once the MBAs took over in late 1986, it was like Poppy Bush got his first term in office.

[Individualist]

17. +1

He was a tool for Cheney and Rove.

[Taitertots]

3. Forest Gump syndrome

He intentionally propagated that image.

Like in Family Guy when Peter discovers he is retarded and starts kicking in the doors on stalls in a womens bathroom.

Oh no WMDs, oops retarded.
Oh financial collapse, oops retarded.

[daggahead]

4. God spoke to him ... need I say more? n/t

[Arkana]

6. He wasn't smart enough to do any of that.

Rove crafted the image of him as the "good ole boy from Texas". That wasn't his idea.

[pinto]

9. Yeah, he was re-packaged and sold.

There's a great historical tale in it all, somewhere.

Another part-time (R) governor is looking for the same kind of coup...

[John Q. Citizen]

13. He was smart enough to employ Rove after his dad had fired him. That's not dumb. that's

smart.

He was also smart enough to pull it off.

Naw, bush is above average IQ. He's not particularly brillent, he's no genius, but he's also not a moron.

[pinto]

7. Good points.

:thumbsup:

[MichiganVote]

10. Dumb or smart he's still an asshole and always will be.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. I can't argue with that. He is an asshole.

[Rex]

14. George Bush was a peice of garbage. Worst president in history imo.

He should be held accountable for the fall of America.

[Stargleamer]

15. I don't see why he couldn't have been both

those qualities aren't mutually exclusive

[Motown_Johnny]

18. He wanted to secure a place in history for himself and his father, but not the one

that he has secured.

I vote for bumbling moron

[LeftWingPunk]

19. i am not a troll

as one person said of me. I guess you can blame me for being 19 but I thought of Bush as the way he was portrayed in the movie "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay" and "W".

[uppityperson]

23. No, you are a duck. Or else haven't researched/learned enough yet.

Hoping you read and learn on DU.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

25. Bush was MIA 1/3 of his presidency

"On vacation"... Are you sure about that? I'd agree the frat boy got what he wanted. He coasted through the presidency like he coasted through Harvard.

[uppityperson]

26. Am I sure about the duck or the learning on DU?

confused, maybe you meant to reply to someone else?

[PerpetuallyDazed]

69. I was responding to the learning thing

I have no idea what your duck reference is about ;)

[Rex]

28. I don't think you are a troll, just young (19) and somewhat politically ignorant.

You weren't around for the theft of America by the Repukes in the 80s. You weren't around for Nixon's self destruction or the Joseph McCarthy witch hunts or Clintons penis witch hunt. No offense, but you need to read a lot more about politics in America before you really know about George Bush and the way he destroyed America.

Start with his history as governor of Texas, you will learn a lot.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Motown_Johnny]

37. W. gave him way to much credit. It assumed that what was said in public is the same

as what was said behind closed doors



(I have not seen Harold and Kumar 2)

[lutefisk]

24. He's a mean, stupid man, but he is absolutely competent to stand trial

And I hope to see that happen. Not likely, but I can hope.

[Nothing Without Hope]

51. Stupid but cunning and a probable sociopath. Blew up frogs as a child.

Didn't care about the deaths of so many as an adult. Totally selfish. But yes, competent to stand trial. I can't see that happening either, because the Bush Crime Family and its co-conspirators will not allow it.

Much has also been written about how Bush deteriorated over time - one video compared a speech he gave before the presidency with a one as president, and the differences are stunning.
http://www.adbuzz.com/bushbuzz.htm
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/091804Mazza/091804mazza.html
I think this theory is probably true, too.

But overall, I see him as a stupid, lazy, uncurious, totally selfish and ruthless sociopath who was a front to the crime family. His only objection seemed to be that he wanted to be the top guy (though without any work) and resented the handling by Cheney and others. A monster, in fact.

[Zen Democrat]

27. He's the result of a very shallow gene pool.

He couldn't have been elected prom chairman without help from his family and their "friends" -- from birth to this day.

[Bobbieo]

30. This is why you never underestimate Sarah Palin!

[whatsthebuzz]

32. Overheard in conversation about a month ago in the store...

It was a liberal friend of mine talking with a guy I didn't know. The guy was talking about how GWB was a wonderful public speaker. My friend seemed amused and asked why. They guy said it was because he "didn't have to use a teleprompter like that Obama guy does." My friend explained that many public speakers and those in politics use teleprompters, but the guy responded by saying that GWB "shot from the hip" like a preacher, so he spoke the truth.

I said hello to my friend and walked away laughing. Didn't even stick around to see what my friend said.

[City Lights]

33. He was a mean-spirited, ruthless prick before he got to yale.

He blew up frogs with firecrackers as a kid. He learned to be mean-spirited and ruthless from Ma Bush early on.

[Ardent15]

44. Ah, yes...

Cruelty to animals as a kid is a warning sign for psychopathy.

Also, Poppy Bush was a fucking asshole, just in a different way from his "Beautiful Mind" wife.

[Iggo]

35. Yeah, you're right. He's a fucking genius.

:eyes:

[paulsby]

40. that logical fallacy is called "excluding the middle"

there, you learned something today

[Iggo]

41. Learned that a long time ago.

I just like it.

[Iggo]

42. Nope. You were right the first time.

I was thinking of the undistributed middle. But it was bugging me. I was all, "Wait. No. That ain't right."

So yeah. I did learn something.

Thanks!!!:toast:

[tavalon]

36. He was and is incurious and sociopathic

Willfully ignorant but wiley.

[Ardent15]

43. Well, sociopaths tend to have a superiority complex

Dubya seems to have an inferiority complex.

Now, his brother Neil Bush, there's a fucking sociopath for you.

[Nikki Stone1]

45. Good point.

/

[ecstatic]

46. Are you hinting at something?

[gleaner]

47. You are right ...

He was and is a cunning and dangerous sociopath who was very adroit at getting what he wanted and shifting the blame to others because it was easy for him to make himself look stupid. I was told once that if you ever have a choice between appearing to be stupid or malicious, pick stupid. People are more likely to excuse it and feel sorry for you. It was spot on.

[WVRICK13]

48. I Used To Think Bush Was A Bumbling Moron

but now I realize he is a cold, calculating, selfish little prick. When he was an adolescent he slowly rode his bike in front of his parents car, weaving from side to side, delaying them because he was pissed off. That shows you his character. If I had done something like that I would still be grounded and I'm 55.

[saltpoint]

50. Dubya was shrewd enough to push his weight around but apart from that

he was a recalcitrant 4-year old. It seems to me that many people in other cultures hated him, and properly so.

After Katrina I don't see how any human being, except someone who is unconscionable, could ever have any respect for George W. Bush. "Heck of a job, Brownie" still echoes in a lot of ears.

[Nothing Without Hope]

52. A cunning sociopath, ruthless but oddly lazy, and DETERIORATED over time

I think he had average intelligence (and is still competent to stand trial) but has had mental deterioration over time. The video comparing two of his speeches 10 years apart is very striking.

http://www.adbuzz.com/bushbuzz.htm
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/091804Mazza/091804mazza.html

A willing front man and participant in the monstrous program of the cabal, but increasingly stubborn and resentful about being "handled." He wanted to be the boss, but without actually doing anything. Truly a monster and a terrifying lesson on how the American electoral system with its basis in money and mass media and backroom deals can be manipulated.

[newtothegame]

53. Theres always been incredible contradiction on DU.

The same DU'ers that say he's a bumbling chimp (racist btw) will in the same breath bitch and moan about all the murdering "he" was doing in Iraq and all the oppression "he" was doing of our liberal brethren. One or the other people.

[jgraz]

54. Which part of "stupid bullying sociopath" did you not understand?

He may have not been the ultimate architect of his worst policies, but he certainly supported them and used the power of his office to ensure they were implemented. Unfortunately, I've met plenty of people who were stupid, incompetent and evil all at the same time.

[WinkyDink]

63. 1. "Chimp" is not racist, except in your mind; 2. The Nazis weren't geniuses; 3. You seem cavalier.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. So you're saying calling Bush a chimp is racist against white people?

How?

[Bucky]

67. The fact that there's two different theories about him isn't a contradiction

It's just an argument. We don't all have to see the world the same way.

[jgraz]

55. The only guy who was born on third base and thought he'd scored a touchdown.

[Toasterlad]

56. Bush Didn't Market Himself. Rove Did. And He Worked With What He Had.

If he could have sold Bush as a smart man, he would have done it. Since all he had to work with was a dim alcoholic, he convinced the country that being an anti-intellectual hillbilly you'd like to have a beer with was a good quality in a President of the United States.

Rove is a fucking genius. Bush is a moron.

[DailyGrind51]

58. Bush was Cheney's sock-puppet!

Bush did not understand half of what he signed into law.

[Demeter]

59. You Don't Have to Be Smart to Be a Thug

You just need a mean streak a mile wide, the will to use it, and pwerful, evil friends in high places.

[Still Blue in PDX]

60. To paraphrase an old saying: Smart enough for government work.

Meaning no disrespect to the honorable people who actually WORK for the government.
:thumbsup:

[Orsino]

61. He was a lazy, entitled, untalented scion of a wealthy family.

He didn't have to think, and eventually lost the capacity.

[Bucky]

66. It was like if Disney Corporation was being run by Donald Duck.

Or if Chick-Fil-A was actually run by cattle. He was a marketing tool, little else. Republicans don't run candidates; they run brands. This is how they get a Mitt Romney, their probable next nominee. He branded himself one way to become governor, and now has switched up his marketing appeal and even his product contents (policy wise) just to get elected. To them voting is just a function of market share. Behind it is the real power, the real careers of corporate managers trying to get power, prestige, and the most bucks they can squeeze out of the system. The reason Bush's administration produced such a fucked up result is that the world doesn't work the way Republicans imagine it to. But Bush was not such an anomaly: Reagan and Poppy Bush were essentially product brands too, albeit like Romney they had brains behind their exterior packaging. Maybe Reagan had more of a guiding philosophy than an intelligent analysis of the world, but the thing that made Dubya so different was that at least earlier iterations of the candidate-as-brand at least knew there was a reality outside their packaging. Lord help him, I don't think Dubya, for all his vaunted interpersonal skills, ever figured out there was a reality outside the bubble.