aarrgghh! Scientology Treatment Program for Prisoners Funded by Feds

[donsu]

http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2007/scientology-treatment-program.html?log-event=sp2f-view-item&nid=31526429


Federal tax dollars are helping to pay for a controversial addiction-treatment program for prisoners in New Mexico based on Scientology precepts, the Wall Street Journal reported Jan. 19.

The Second Chance program is billed as an alternative treatment program for nonviolent offenders and uses the principals of Scientology -- such as using saunas, diet, massage and vitamins to purge the body of toxins -- to fight addiction. In New Mexico, 24 of the state's 84 district judges have referred a total of 50 clients to the program since it opened last September.

Second Chance is the only Scientology-based treatment center for inmates in the U.S. A former chief district judge from Albuquerque, W. John Brennan, is a paid consultant hired to promote the program to his former colleagues. But the current chief district judge, William Lang, doesn't want judges to make referrals to the program, saying he is suspicious of its relationship with the Church of Scientology even though program officials say there is no link.

Brennan was arrested four years ago and charged with drunk driving and cocaine possession. He first sought treatment at the Betty Ford Center, but later tried Scientology. Judge Lang also has battled alcoholism and attends 12-step meetings.

Randall Suggs, a Scientologist who is part owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks baseball teams, had provided $300,000 to launch the program, and the state of New Mexico contributed $300,000. Second Chance later received $350,000 in federal funds, but that money is about to run out. Brennan has appeared before the state legislature to request $3.6 million to fund the program.
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and then there are Jeb's faith based private prisons in Fl. that tax money goes to.

religious con games

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

1. Do a search on how our government has funded the Moonies too. eom

[Scurrilous]

2. Praise Xenu I'm cured!!

50 'clients' and they've already run through almost a million bucks. Those must be some mighty fine massages.

[Kagemusha]

3. So um... does it work?

I don't care where it comes from, if it works. Seems like just a bunch of ways to distract the body and mind from the addiction and withdrawal stuff but, I can't just sit and say off the top of my head that it's a stupid concept. I just have no idea if it works, and I don't make my medical decisions (or even theoretical medical arguments) based on anyone's faith.

[Beaverhausen]

5. Exactly. If this plan works I say good.

I'm not a scientologist but I have many friends who are. They aren't weirdos and they never proselytize to me.

Their programs regarding mental health may put some people off, but they have been very successful treating some addictions.

If this program works for some addicts, what is the problem?

[Pithlet]

7. Your friends may not proselytize to you

but Scientology is notoriously aggressive in its attempts to recruit. Their treatment programs are based on precepts of Scientology, and therefore should be off limits to federal funding. Any religious group can claim their belief system helps people to overcome addiction. That doesn't mean they're entitled to federal funds, whether it works or not. I don't think that people who are Scientologists are evil, bad people. They're victims of a giant scam. Scientology itself as an organization I find highly objectionable. It's not your typical religious group. People who are against organized religion in general tend to like to lump Scientology in with the rest, but it really is its own, scary animal. It's bad enough they've scammed the government into granting them status as a church. Now they want to draw funds from the government to help them "recruit" more victims, exploiting their addiction to reel them in. Not on my tax dollar.

[Beaverhausen]

8. How many do you know personally?

Just curious. People have ideas about this group from information they get in the media, but don't really know what they are talking about. Scientology as a belief system works for thousands of people around the world. Who are we to judge them?

And hey, I think christian groups are far more dangerous than the scientologists. Talk about a scam!

But maybe that's just me.

[Pithlet]

9. I don't judge anyone as an individual for being a Scientologist.

I criticize the practices Scientology uses. They operate as a scam. There are indeed some Christian groups that are also scams that victimize people. I don't hold Scientology up on some pedestal of evil all by itself. I just acknowledge the aspects of Scientology that are exactly like many other scams that exist and have existed. I don't have to know anyone personally to know that this is true, anymore than I have to know a neo-con personally to know that that movement is bad. Scams have been masking themselves as a religion since scams have existed because they know it lends an air of legitimacy for many people. They can claim religious intolerance when anyone points out the fact that they're a scam, too, which is awfully handy.

I don't deny that people who are members genuinely feel that it has helped them and made their lives better. That doesn't mean they aren't victims of a scam. Many victims of scams feel it is a benefit until they find out otherwise, if they ever do. I'm not advocating to make Scientology illegal. I'm saying they need to be held to the same standards as everyone else, legally speaking, and shouldn't get special treatment or be protected from legitimate criticism of many of its practices that scam people simply because they call themselves a religion.

[Kagemusha]

10. Heard and understood, but I'm narrowly focused on "does this work"

because I'd rather not be biased against OR for something specific advocated by them without knoweldge of the content.

[Pithlet]

14. But you can't just narrowly focus on that and ignore possible dangerous side effects.

It's not as though there aren't multiple methods that are already been proven to be pretty effective. You have to look at the whole picture to assess if there is any potential harm that goes along with whatever benefit it may have. I'd say that getting sucked into scam that borders on a brainwashing cult is a harmful side effect. Scientology has a very bad track record with regard to such things. They heavily and aggressively recruit members and attack those who are critical. People suffering from addiction are in a vulnerable state, and if the federal government is going to give an organization like that money, they need to be very sure that there aren't ulterior motives, and that the organization leaves any hint of recruitment right out of it. Scientology is very heavily driven by recruitment, so I don't trust them at all, no matter how effective their system may or may not be.

[EOTE]

13. What do you mean "works"...

If people can be made to believe such ridiculous things, I can't believe that's a good thing. Show me lives which have been truly enriched by Scientology and I might be inclined to believe you.

[Mandate My Ass]

15. Eggs zacktly

Most drug addicts have underlying psychological and psychiatric problems which, when left untreated, compel them to self-medicate with illegal substances. Scientologists don't believe in either of these practices so their "cure" would most likely entail just bucking up and not doing that bad stuff anymore.

It's cheaper to pay a Scientologist to lecture someone on their alleged shortcomings than to actually treat them for what ails them. :eyes:

[Pithlet]

16. Exactly. Someone else had the perfect analogy.

It's like giving federal money to a Christian Science group, who doesn't believe in any medical intervention whatsoever, to provide medical care. How can a group that doesn't believe in psychiatry treat chemical dependency? It's insane.

[Quantess]

18. Scientology "works" well at getting people to cough up their money for more sessions.

The church of Scientology is very "successful". They convince people their problems are caused by thetans clouding their spirits, and the only way to reach their fullest potential is to pay lots of money to the Scientology church for deprogramming.
(Something like that.)

No matter how far a person progresses (or how much money is spent) there will always be more thetans to remove. By the time a person has reached a state of "clear", they are so deeply embedded into Scientology, and are one of the Scientology leaders. Then they can start reaping money off the new members.

[Kagemusha]

19. (wonders if it occured to people I meant the medical treatment

and not Scientology...)

[Beaverhausen]

20. I know a lot of scientologists. They are successful, creative and very nice people

How many do you know personally? I see no one has answered this question yet.

[Pithlet]

22. I didn't answer it directly because it's irrelevant, really.

I don't think one has to know a member personally to know what a bad organization it is. One of the big reasons I'm a progressive is because I've learned a lot of things through media and other means, about people and things I've never actually directly known or experienced. I've affiliated myself with the more progressive side of politics through thins I've learned second hand, for the most part. More to the point, I've never personally known a member of any cult, but I know cults exist. I've heard enough bad things about Scientology from trusted sources to form the opinion that it is a bad organization, to put it mildly. I'm sure there are members that are lovely human beings. They probably genuinely support the group they belong to and feel it has done wonderful things for them. It doesn't change the fact that all the many, many negative things I've read and heard and seen about Scientology add up to serious scam. And as a scam organization, particularly one that doesn't even believe in psychiatry as many of their members have openly and publicly stated, I don't trust them to handle serious issues like drug addiction, and our tax dollars are far better spent elsewhere.

[Marnieworld]

17. Scientologists charge believers for the wisdom from the "faith"

When cash is exchanged upfront boldly it makes you wonder about a "Church". Sure other religions have tithing and other donation drives but it is not a requirement as Scientology.

There's also much information available about the recruiting methods, the origination of this "religion" and retribution against those that leave the "church".

Visit xenu.net for more information about the organization that your clam friends belong to. I see that you are in LA. Part of L Ron's Master Plan involved recruiting celebrities to promote Scientology. He wrote about catering to their egos and manipulating them to acheive this and sheltering them from the other parts of the organization.

I personally don't subscribe to any organized religion. However I do agree with the other poster that said that Scientology is something different all together. The mentality of "If it works, what's the harm?" could be applied to any other cult as well. The people of Jonestown were very happy in their lives right up to that last sip of kool-aid. Scientology is really a corporate enterprise though, they'd never cut off the revenue.

[Beaverhausen]

21. so , I'm guessing you don't know any personally

but you believe everything you read on the internets. OK.

[Pithlet]

23. It's not just the internets.

I've been reading actual books, papers and magazines about this cult for years. If no one is ever allowed to form opinions about anything unless they've directly experienced it, then how can anyone affiliate themselves politically? I'm white and I've never been poor. I've spent most of my life in the suburbs. By that logic, I should have affiliated myself with more conservative people because I've never been personally, intimately affected by many of the issues I feel strongly about.

[Marnieworld]

24. well there really aren't that many Scientologists to know

I believe well documented research regardless of the medium it is transmitted. There have been excellent documentaries( one on A & E comes to mind) with many stories from actual scientologists that I don't have to know one personally to get a first hand account.

I never met one that I am aware of. There are a few hundred thousand (if that) around the world and they are primarily based in Los Angeles or Clearwater, Florida. I don't see why you are so insistent that the only opinion of this topic that is valid is based on first-hand conversations with "believers". Sometimes that is the very distorted perspective that can't be valid.

[Unperson]

4. Scientology has some weird things going on in New Mexico.

The Wikipedia article on the Scientology mountain vault in New Mexico
has some fascinating info. Apparently the tract of land that contains
the vault is now back in the hands of the government. The CoS now owns a
nearby parcel of land (with the big symbol viewable from the air). It's
a strange story - nothing is ever straightforward with the CoS.

But the main point is that if the parcel with the vault is once again
federal property, *a lot* more info should be available than if it were
in private hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trementina_Base

http://cryptome.org/cst-bunker.htm

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. There's a lot I dislike about scientology,

but the notion of cleaning the body of toxins at least has more basis in real science than any 12-step nonsense where Jesus will save you if you submit.

I believe the stealth evangelism of 12-step programs is responsible for more than a little of the rise in fundamentalism in the past 50 years.

[sandnsea]

11. And real CD counselors make - how much??

$25,000 - $30,000?? IF you have a degree. And now they're handing out hundreds of thousands to fucking scientologists???

:argh:

[enki23]

12. they've been doing that with various xtian groups for a long time, haven't they?

so what's the difference? adolescent south-park morality tales aside, there really isn't one. if we're going to subsidize religious indoctrination, we may as well share the... er... wealth.