So, are centrist Democrats the Leftward leaning Republicans of days of 40 years ago?

[scubadude]

Just where are we?

I'm of a belief that the tactics used by the Republicans for over the last 4 decades have worked, and our whole definition of Liberal vs. Conservative has changed.

Any thoughts?

Scuba

[Chipper Chat]

1. Yea. Bingo!

I was a republican 40 years ago.

[DJ13]

2. Yes

When we can look back and see that Nixon is more liberal than 90% of todays Democrats (including Obama) its not hard to see that our country has gotten far too conservative since he was in office.

[elleng]

3. Both are true, and not necessarily related, I think.

Have to think on it more.

[walldude]

4. Posted a thread on this the other day...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8062120


Exactly what you are talking about.

[scubadude]

7. Forgive me for not noticing your post, I have been away. You made some very good observations.

One thing you didn't do is identify why this is happening and what can be done to counter it, which is a subject which should be mentioned over and over in my belief, so I will do so.

People must understand the past to understand the present and potentially the future. The Dems who really are Dems must use the example provided by the Republicans. They must see how the Republicans leveraged the money from big business through think tanks to manipulate the language describing the left. They must see how solidarity of message and repetition has literally changed the playing field upon which American politics is played.

This also extends into the Big Business news media of course. Everyone decries the Fairness doctrine, but it or something like it is exactly what must be resurrected.

It also extends to the financial arena, where liberal safeguards have been stripped away.

The left isn't what it used to be. To regain balance, we must literally redefine people's beliefs as to where they are politically and what is exceptable. As an easy example, far right Fox news must be redefined in people's minds as what it really is, a source of right wing propaganda. The list goes on.

There is much work to be done. One huge problem is where will the money come from?

Scuba

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. Javits, Hatfield and even Rockefeller opposed Vietnam.

Which of the "centrist" Dems display the slightest bit of independence in relation to Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc etc. etc.?

[Greyhound]

6. No, they are the Republicons of 40 years ago.

The liberal Republicons of yesteryear are now the "radical left".:eyes:

The old left are now "terrorists".

[laughingliberal]

10. +1000 nt

[xchrom]

8. This was -- with unintended consquences-

Conceived and acted upon in the 70s -- giving us Reagan.

Thank the university of chicag, Grover norquist,
the heritage foundation, Paul weyrich, etc

[Greyhound]

15. It always comes back to Chicago, doesn't it?

MLK stated he felt more hatred for blacks in Chicago than he did the south.

Daley pushed the left out of the party giving us Nixon.

We suffer from the idiocy the "Chicago school" inflicted on first the U.S., and later, large parts of the world.

I could go even further back in time with examples of the Kleptocracy crushing labor for decades...

[laughingliberal]

9. No doubt we've been pushed right. I wouldn't even put most of today's Democrats with 'left leaning'

Republicans of 40 years ago. Most of them are somewhere around where Reagan was. Nixon was further left than a lot of today's Democrats.

[Jennicut]

11. Yes, absolutely. The political system, if not the country, shifted rightward

especially during Reagan. Obama is merely a teeny tiny shift to the center. And it scares the hell out of the ultra right wing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

Yes. Minus the "leftward leaning" part.

[QC]

12. Is there anything leftward about these so-called "centrists"?

I haven't seen anything out of them other than old-fashioned conservatism (as opposed to the nutty reactionary stuff that now passes for conservatism).

New Democrat = Old Republican.

[Tesha]

13. Yes. Some quite literally! (E.g., Arlen Spector who wasn't even all that left-leaning.) (NT)

[Juche]

14. Hell, try 20 years ago

Obamas health bill is similar to what the GOP proposed in 1993.

Nixon was (I think) a more centrist or right wing republican in the 70s. But he was about where the conservadems are.

So 40 years ago the conservadems were where the centrist republicans are. now the conservadems are where the left wing GOP were 20 years ago.

Its called the Overton window. And it is sad that it works so well.

[Cresent City Kid]

16. I think a little differently

What's left, right and center is like a number line, but I think more in Venn diagrams politically. You have those who believe in helping the poor but oppose gay marriage, and those who believe global warming is real, but their ideal economy is good ol' American capitalism. Most of what appears contradictary takes place within the Democratic Party. The GOP's biggest divide is the big business support of underpaid illegal alien workers against the racism and nationalism of its knuckle dragging voters. What looks like a two party system is actually a multi party system where 3rd place is a distant 3rd, so shrinking by the republicans grew the Democrats to include a hodge podge of various interests. Republicans have a short clear list of likes and dislikes, Democrats can be conflicted, even within one person. I personally have a socialist utopian vision, and some acceptable compromises that move in that direction.

I agree to a point that your original premise is right, the extreme right took the center of gravity with them, making what we call common sense look flaky to the average American.

In other ways, reality is making the far right look as extreme as it is. Concern about global warming is mainstream thought despite business' success in keeping it going. The jury is still out on whether the 2008 election showed that the average voter figured out the fallacy of trickle-down economics, or if it was just throwing out the incumbents, but there's hope.