Latest Dowd: "Worlds without Women"=Pope's emotional schism

[Lena inRI]

Say and think what you will about Maureen Dowd, she perceptively nails the historical and current crime of the Pope ergo catholicism:

Above all else, he perpetuates ad infinitum the Catholic Church's power using celibacy, infallibility doctrine of the Pope, and the 1929 Lateran Treaty on statehood of the Vatican.

Any church law anywhere acknowledging women's EQUALITY to men is nixed. Why else was celibacy so mandatory in church dogma since C.E. 1022 by another Pope Benedict VIII ? Celibacy has NOTHING to do with sexual mores or sacrifices. It has all to do with keeping Catholic male clerics' consolidated power away from women.

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/catholiccelibacy.html

Meanwhile, never really expecting celibacy to ever work for most clerics, male or female, the Pope has to shunt aside any criminal sexual abuse of children in order to uphold the power/wealth of the Catholic city-state.

Celibacy is the crucial keystone holding up this fake religious arch. It's truly a medieval fiefdom circa 2010. Incredibly true!

I saw how the Pope's Vatican press response has been to charge the NYT with unfair attacks . . .next they'll start using the perennial threat of excommunication or divine retribution (the BIG CURSE) for all NYT Catholic employees who attack the infallible "Holy Papa."

Keep on pressing, Maureen. What your modern, technological, righteous free speech can't end, the on-going severe drop in the number of catholic clerics will. . .hopefully in my lifetime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/opinion/11dowd.html?hp

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[ZeitgeistObserver]

1. She makes an excellent point about Saudi Arabia,

although she won't be appreciated for it. :)

[Warpy]

4. The quickest way to find out about someone else's culture

is to ask them what they don't like about yours.

Every Saudi woman I ever met and could communicate with told me they felt terribly exposed and unprotected in the west. They did enjoy being able to drive, but disliked going out on their own. They were used to the protection of a family group, especially shepherded by males.

That told me a great deal about their own culture and about how progress is likely to be made there. We won't like it and it would drive us crazy to live under that system, but they don't like our world, either.

Dowd is quite right about the exclusion of women from both cultures, the Catholic and the Wahabbi.

She's also quite right about a hierarchy so disconnected from life and family that raped children are considered acceptable collateral damage to preserving the institution.

I just wonder if the centuries of crimes against women and children are finally going to catch up to Rome. I sincerely hope so. The only way for the church to live is for Rome to die.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

6. People tend to like what they're used to I guess.

In most cases they don't even question it. Women are excluded from most cultures, but maybe they're finally realizing it.

[KittyWampus]

9. Wealthy Saudi women like "our" world just fine.

[Warpy]

11. How many have you talked to?

[ZeitgeistObserver]

12. If they did, Saudi Arabia would be a much different place.

[calimary]

2. Wow - what a magnificent piece! One that will fall on deaf ears, though.

As a Catholic myself, I just really despair. I don't see my Church recovering from this anytime soon - because it won't even recognize the problem. Especially when you have the Chief Cover-Up Author elevated to Pope. Essentially a huge public reward for bad behavior, a validation and reinforcement of the cover-up and its perpetrator(s).

[MattSh]

3. And the celibacy policy only applies in some places...

Depending where your Catholic Church is. In some places, celibacy is overlooked...

RUDNO, Ukraine — Let the rest of Europe be convulsed by debates over whether the celibacy of Roman Catholic priests is causing sex abuse scandals like the one now unfolding in Germany. Here in western Ukraine, many Catholic priests are married, fruitful and multiplying — with the Vatican’s blessing.

The many feet scampering around the Volovetskiy home are testament to that.

The family’s six children range from Pavlina, 21, to Taras, 9. In the middle is Roman, 16, who wants to be a Catholic priest when he grows up. Just like his father.

Dad is the Rev. Yuriy Volovetskiy, who leads a small parish here and whose wife, Vera, teaches religious school. The Volovetskiys serve in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which believes that celibate priests are not necessarily better priests.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/world/europe/23ukraine.html

So the Vatican isn't even very consistent about their own policies.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

5. They are allowing in the married Anglican priests as well.

Hard to keep so many people under control.

[Lena inRI]

7. You left out the article's distinguishing point. . .

. . "Ukrainian Greek Catholics represent a branch of Catholicism that is distinct from the far more prevalent Roman Catholic one. The Ukrainian church is loyal to the pope in Rome, and its leader is a cardinal and major archbishop.

But it conducts services that resemble those in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. In religious terms, it follows the Eastern Rite, not the Latin one that is customary in Roman Catholicism.

Historically, the Vatican appears to have tolerated the traditions and attitude toward celibacy of the so-called Eastern Rite Catholics in order to retain a foothold in regions where Orthodox Christianity has dominated. But this exception suggests that the Vatican view on celibacy is not as rigid or monolithic as it might otherwise appear."
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Yeah, no kidding. . .proof positive that the Pope's celibacy policy is adapted to whatever GUARANTEES INCOMING REVENUES. . .these Ukrainians could easily switch to the Greek Orthodox hierarchy which always had married priest before and since the Great Schism of C.E. 1054.

Gotta keep the natives interested as you expand the empire. . .collect that tribute. . .Roman Catholic colonialism at its best!

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[JVS]

10. Technically those people are not Roman Catholic

They are considered in communion because they agree with papal/petrine primacy (in the case of the Ukrainians a lot of this happened in the last few centuries as siding with Rome was a great way to piss off Russia, which was firmly on the Eastern Orthodox side of the split), which means that the Pope has authority to clarify doctrinal issues but not administrative authority over issues of canon law.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Celibacy does not explain pedophilia in Canadian youth hockey, the Yeshiva school in Brooklyn, etc.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

19. but power imbalance does.

Anywhere there is power imbalance, the weaker party is at risk......

celibacy rules enforce and exaggerate the divide....

just thinking out loud here.....gotta run, too, no time to continue cogitating right now......

[Captain Hilts]

20. How does celibacy create a power imbalance? Pedophilia is pedophilia. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

29. It reinforces the role as "special", "important"

in addition of course, to intensifying physical lusts (if you want to distort sexual drives, just impose repressive moralities and watch the ensuing festivities).....

Also concentrates the masculinist culture out of all normal bounds, as the article points out.

[bajamary]

8. Gospel of Mary Magdalene

I found Maureen Dowd's article most interesting but she failed to mention how the male Catholic church has eliminated the other Gospels of Jesus' apostles, such as Mary Magdalene who also wrote Gospels. Maureen does not deal with early history of Christianity when women were priests and they performed various clerical duties.

I know Dowd had a limited space but it's crucial to know that in the first few centuries of after Jesus died, women were equal and they wrote several Gospels, all of which were condemned, burned and destroyed. Recently, scholars have found some of these lost gospels.

Implications of the Gospel of Mary Magdalene

Karen L. King, Winn Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Harvard University Divinity School, concludes that this Gospel provides "...an intriguing glimpse into a kind of Christianity lost for almost fifteen hundred years." Professor King goes on to say that the Gospel
"...presents a radical interpretation of Jesus' teachings as a path to inner spiritual knowledge; it rejects his suffering and death as the path to eternal life; it exposes the erroneous view that Mary of Magdala was a prostitute for what it is—a piece of theological fiction; it presents the most straightforward and convincing argument in any early Christian writing for the legitimacy of women's leadership; it offers a sharp critique of illegitimate power and a utopian vision of spiritual perfection; it challenges our rather romantic views about the harmony and unanimity of the first Christians; and it asks us to rethink the basis for church authority."

As Professor King also observed, the tensions in second-century Christianity are reflected in "the confrontation of Mary with Peter, a scenario also found in The Gospel of Thomas, Pistis Sophia], and The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians. Peter and Andrew represent orthodox positions which deny the validity of esoteric revelation and reject the authority of women to teach."

The text is primarily concerned with

1. mortality and the origin of mortality as a result of the demiurge
2. Jesus' ascension
3. The ascent of the soul, according to gnosticism

The larger part of these concerns is expressed as a dialogue between the disciples and Mary, who is providing the answers. Within the text, the authority of the church after the departure of Jesus has been placed in Mary, which likely indicates that the text originated within a sect which either recognized Mary as its founder or otherwise valued Mary above other apostles. This favor may have been, in part, due to her ability as a female to represent the important figure of Sophia, the female syzygy of Christ, within gnostic theology.

Additional information can be found at:

http://www.maryofmagdala.com/Karen_King/karen_king.html

[Lena inRI]

14. Your excellent facts further support Dowd. . .

. . .whose main point is that the Pope is maintaining "an inbred and wealthy men's club cloistered behind walls. . .an autocratic society that repressed women and ignored their progress in a secular world."

Your cited facts highlight, as early as the C.E. 2nd century, what Dowd sees as the squashing of any female role in leading the Roman Catholic Church.

Will there ever be a return to early Christian inclusion of female leadership?

Fat chance! What a racket Popes have :

1) Above any secular criminal code/courts as they claim diplomatic immunity. And their church laws/boards hardly instill us with assurances of objective judicial review. . .more like justice delayed is justice denied.

2) Tax exemption throughout their Christendom as they claim to uphold separation of church and state while INDIRECTLY or DIRECTLY pushing their agenda on lawmakers/congregants (i.e. no pro-choicer will receive communion or outright excommunication) .

3) Their recent inclusion of "altar girls" is not such a great advance in light of all the revelations of priests screwing altar boys in the sacristy. And female priests, not a chance!

Yesiree, the Popes have their cake and eat it to. . .they're more than INFALLIBLE , they're UNTOUCHABLE.

I'd like to see a national leader challenge the untouchable Pope with these ultimatums:

1) If the Vatican is a sovereign nation, abide by our laws and tax code as other nations have when owning land in other nations.

2) Also, the Pope has to insure/comply with national civil rights protections and equality or expect law suits.

Now who do you see ever making these challenges?

I sure hope the recent child abuse under this Pope is the beginning. . .

:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[JerseygirlCT]

13. I thought the Newsweek article was also interesting

http://www.newsweek.com/id/235882

A Woman’s Place Is In The Church

Here they are, the members of history's oldest and most elite all-male club, trying to manage what began as a domestic crisis. For decades, certain priests in America, Europe, Ireland, Brazil (and God knows where else) abused—raped or otherwise molested—children and teenagers not in the frescoed halls of the Vatican but in their own backyards: on camping trips and in cars, in dormitories and confessionals. Those few boys and girls confident enough to tell their secret whispered it to the women they trusted: mothers, aunts, grandmothers. Those few women brave enough to question authority or seek justice from the bishops were hushed up and shut down. In this case Jesus was wrong: the meek did not inherit the earth. They received pious and self-serving sermonizing.

[Captain Hilts]

15. We need to be skeptical whenever we see one demographic group in charge of ANYthing. Well done, MoDo

[Tailormyst]

17. Celebacy was solely a financial descision

Rome did not want to have to deal with the dependents of deceased or divorced priests.

Rome does nothing that is not traced back to monetary reasons.

[Xenotime]

18. She is an excellent liberal

[Captain Hilts]

21. No she isn't. nt

[closeupready]

23. She's thoroughly DLC.

n/t

[Captain Hilts]

24. She was instrumental in giving us George W. Bush. Frank Rich and Bob Herbert also.

They've never been held accountable for that.

[closeupready]

25. Absolutely. I will never ever forget the filthy hatchet job she did on Al Gore.

:mad:

That said, for reasons unbeknownst to me, her blog gets published in the New York Times as a 'column' where it gets read by thousands of people, so if it's true that a broken clock is right twice per day, then this is one of those times. ;)

[Captain Hilts]

26. Rich and Herbert were just as rough on Gore. But, she's spot on in this column. nt

[closeupready]

27. I didn't know that - thanks for the info.

n/t

[closeupready]

22. Though I often find I dislike her intensely, this was an excellent observation:

>>As the longtime Vatican enforcer, the archconservative Ratzinger — now Pope Benedict XVI — moved avidly to persecute dissenters. But with molesters, he was plodding and even merciful.<<

The parallels here with organized rackets is alarming. People joke that the Catholic Church is a money-laundering operation, but things like this make me wonder how far off the mark it is, when you consider that child molesters acting alone are prosecuted and jailed almost immediately after their crimes come to light, but child-molesting members of the church hierarchy seem to just go on about their lives as if it's no big deal.

[ensho]

28. great article - gold stars for Maureen

nt