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Listening to the family of the murdered Wikileaks van driver - how many more? 27 million

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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 03:13 AM
Original message
Listening to the family of the murdered Wikileaks van driver - how many more? 27 million
is one estimate. The official US position is "We don't give a fuck so we don't count." So a few others try to measure the tons of blood spilled and mountains of corpses the US corporatist empire has produced. That interview is at the beginning of this segment: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/12/families_of_victims_of_2007_us

U.S. government attributable genocides & mass killings


Native Americans: approx 10 million

Population history of American indigenous peoples


Philippines: approx 1 million

en.wikipedia.org…


Vietnam: 3+ million

en.wikipedia.org…


US Bombs Laos: 350,000+

foi.missouri.edu…

US role in Cambodia: 600,000 dead and 1,000,000+ wounded

en.wikipedia.org…

Cambodia under Pol Pot: 2 million massacred

en.wikipedia.org…


Indonesia: 500,000+

educationforum.ipbhost.com…

en.wikipedia.org…


US backed Indonesia against defenseless East Timor: over 600,000, 1/3 of the population

www.gwu.edu…

US coerced Indonesia to annex West Papau in 1969:

www.gwu.edu…

The Indoensian genocides continue to this day:

news.bbc.co.uk…


CIA essentially puts Saddam hussein into power

www.google.com…

US arms Hussein


en.wikipedia.org…

Hussein goes to war with Iran in 1980: 875,000+ dead

en.wikipedia.org…

en.wikipedia.org…

en.wikipedia.org…

en.wikipedia.org…

Hussein slaughters Iraqi Kurd’s / other Iraqi’s: 182,000 – 400,000

www.gwu.edu…

www.answers.com…


US gives Iraq green light to invade Kuwait:

en.wikipedia.org…

US attacks iraq: 80,000

en.wikipedia.org…

Iraqi’s dead from US sanctions: 500,000 children dead

www.globalissues.org…

Iraqi’s dead from US-Iraq War / occupation: over 600,000

www.cnn.com…


Nicaragua: 50,000


El Salvador: 50,000-75,000

Guatemala: 200,000

www.serendipity.li…

www2.truman.edu…

www.gwu.edu…

www.gwu.edu…

www.gwu.edu…

Argentina’s Dirty War: 30,000

www.gwu.edu…


Operation CONDOR (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay & Uruaguay): 80,000+ Dead/Disappeared

en.wikipedia.org…


US trained assaulting forces in the 2nd Congo War: 3,800,000

www.worldpolicy.org…


CIA baited USSR in Afghanistan: 1,500,000+

en.wikipedia.org…


More numbers:

" target="_blank">www.hawaii.edu…



TOTAL:

27,000,000

There are several cases I didn’t even get to also. Doesn’t count indiscriminate killings related to what I call the ‘Empire Wars” in any of the World Wars, Korea and so on.



That is only part of the whole story. Africa (Unita and apartheid and murdering all over) is omitted.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure some war apologist will come along and compare our war record to
some other country...let me get some popcorn.

:popcorn:
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Right.
I'm waiting for that poster who said the U.S. Military is "The Good Guys." :eyes:
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well shit..
I guess we should just quit... Cut the country down the middle with half to Canda and half to Mexico. I'm sure theyll do a much better job. :eyes:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. this is sickening, there are no words to express my disgust & revulsion
well, at least the USA is first in SOMEthing.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Hardly.
There's Russia, and we can include not just Stalin and the other communists but what they did in Novgorod. Even the resistance to the Horde, as well as what they did during the Great Game and the battles with the Turks. Of course, they also backed various factions, so a hefty chunk of the N. Korean, Vietnamese, and Cambodian dead are theirs (after all, Pol Pot was defended so that the N. Vietnamese would be able to use the territory he controlled), as are the Laotians.

But then again the N. Vietnamese also claim a decent share of the dead in SE Asia, since without them there'd have been no real battle, no Pol Pot, and the mess in Laos (as well as the dead following the end of the war).

As for the "Native American" deaths, most of those were from disease; it's unclear if he's blaming the dead in the Amazon rain forest and the Andes in the 1500s on America or not--it seems like he is, but anachronistic blame can surely be justified as part of the White American's burden. But the Spanish were the first to explore large portions of N. America; this means they'd have been the first introducers of those diseases. Since Mexico seems to claim everything Spanish in N. America, I guess they get that, too. Or we can declare Pizarro and others to be honorary Americans.

This is the "one drop rule" applied using a peculiar type of moralist chauvinism. First, adopt the moral stance; next, adopt your chauvinist attitude--who's #1? Finally, any responsibility, however slight or indirect, is metonymic for all responsibility. So by not saying the US would oppose Iraq's invasion of Kuwait the US is seen as encouraging if not ordering the invasion of Kuwait, therefore the US is solely responsible (lest any of the lesser peoples, which is to say, some non-Americans, be responsible for their own actions). The Dutch exported far more chemical weapon precursors and equipment to Iraq than the US did, but the Dutch make a far more distant and a politically less useful target; moreover, to condemn the Dutch isn't nearly as satisfying to the ego as condemning your political rivals. It's American exceptionalism flipped on its head--no less exceptionalism, to be sure, and certainly more small-P partisan simply because its adherents may say that "America" is responsible, but they nearly always mean "the other guy's America, not mine."
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Don't forget China.
Mao killed 50 million of his own people.

But fact aren't welcome in this thread. Only American arrogance. "USA is the best!/USA is the worst!"

Do people actually read history books anymore? Or do they just get their info from cable news and the internet?
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. oh, okay, USA is NOT "first" in this regard
that makes me feel a lot better

:sarcasm:
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. That is both irrelevant and inaccurate
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 12:54 AM by ConsAreLiars
The numbers given in the OP were about empire, extending and maintaining imperial domination domination over lands and people not yet or only partly conquered and controlled Of course, facts rarely matter to people with your viewpoint, but on the off chance you might be interested....

The Civil War in China was between CPC and the KMT. Claiming that only Mao was responsible for the deaths is just silly. One can as easily and ridiculously argue that only the KMT was.

Or for that matter, it makes even more sense to add these deaths to the US's planet-wide mass murdering in the OP, since the US role in arming and supplying the KMT prolonged the conflict for years while the deaths continued to mount.

With the breakdown of talks, an all out war resumed. This stage is referred to in Communist media and historiography as the "War of Liberation" (simplified Chinese: 解放战争; pinyin: Jiěfàng Zhànzhēng). The United States assisted the KMT with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of new surplus military supplies and generous loans of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military equipment.<36> They airlifted many KMT troops from central China to the Northeast (Manchuria). President Truman was very clear about what he described as "using the Japanese to hold off the Communists". In his memoirs he writes "It was perfectly clear to us that if we told the Japanese to lay down their arms immediately and march to the seaboard, the entire country would be taken over by the Communists. We therefore had to take the unusual step of using the enemy as a garrison until we could airlift Chinese National troops to South China and send Marines to guard the seaports".<37> Over 50,000 Marines were sent to guard strategic sites.

<snip>

According to the Battle Summary in the 4 Years' Liberation War, from July 1946 to June 1950, the PLA eliminated 8,071,350 KMT forces and bandits, among them over 6,360,000 surrendered/defected/captured. Another calculation put the total enemy eliminated to about 10,658,000, which is based on combined unit reports. The PLA suffered more than 260,000 KIA and 1,040,000 WIA

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War


You might want to get your history from something better than hazily remembered propaganda agitprop from Reader's Digest.

(edit to fix link)
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You just proved that other poster's entire point
You just used twisted, nonsensical "logic" to blame the US for China's less-than-stellar record on human rights - really? Does it bother you that much that some other country in the world might be responsible for mass murder besides the US?

It's really a shame that tragedies like genocide seem to be little more than a piece of political propaganda for you.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Are you as silly as you appear?
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 02:15 AM by ConsAreLiars
That crap "logic" was in the post I replied to. I just pointed it out.

Your nonsense assertion that I "blame the US for China's less-than-stellar record on human rights" is something I can attribute only to a mix of poor reading comprehension and "We're Number One" disorder.

(edit to move one quote mark)



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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Oh, someone here is suffering from "We're Number One" disorder in this thread
But it ain't me.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. k/r
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