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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:03 AM
Original message
Are our employers robbing us blind with low wages and/or underpaying us?
Does your employer profit from your labor?

Does your employer profit immensely? Like Walmart or Mcdonald's.

Do you feel underpaid for your contribution to your company?

Does your work contribute to the smooth flow of your company's operation?

Do you help make your company profitable?

For the work that you contribute to your employer, or the profits you generate for your boss, or your contribution to the smooth flow of successful business, do you feel fairly compensated in return?

Are employers across America fairly compensating their workers?

Walmart profits Billion$ annually off the backs of it's low paid workforce.
Walmart is an example of a corporation that profits in the BILLIONS by robbing it's workforce blind with low wages.

Are employers robbing the American worker by paying low wages?

Is it time to stand up to our robber-baron, wage-slaving overlords?

Democrats, it is time to protect the middle class and the working poor from the Republican Party.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. yes to all
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. YOU BET YOUR BUTT
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texanwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yep.
Take away enough jobs and wages go down.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R for neo-feudalism!
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
53. That is another name for the corporatism or fascism
that has taken over America. Sadly too many entrenched Democrats are playing the game too. With our majority (which was a super-majority), there is no excuse for all of these practices to continue. It's all about the money for most of them....America has the most unequal distribution of wealth in the world. That is a fact.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah. And this admin is fine with that.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Labor power in the US was essentially broken when the Taft-Hartley Act passed.
In the decades since Taft-Hartley, labor power has slowly decreased to the point where roughly 10% of the labor force is unionized at all, and it's probably under 10% at this point. When FDR was in office, a good 40% or more of the workforce was unionized.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. The working class and the employing class have nothing in common
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 03:41 AM by NightWatcher
The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.

We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."

It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old.
http://www.iww.org/culture/official/preamble.shtml
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh brother
:eyes:
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not a fan of Unions?
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Either that or Marxist propoganda
My money is on the later.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
57. Say what you will...
But unions were only taken seriously when there were honest to god socialists running around. Without the threat of popular socialism I don't think labor unions would have been able to leverage much power and I don't think FDR would have been as great a president for the working men and women of this country.

Since the fall of communism the greedy plutocrats have been all the more naked and brutal in their acquisitiveness.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. I can't agree with what you seem to be implying
I was a union member during the relative heyday of unions all the way through their decline. Unions were borne out of necessity when the nation transitioned from an agrarian society to a pre-manufacturing society to a manufacturing society. The nation was infested with corruption, cronyism, monopolism, and greed. The scale of such isn't even in the same ballpark as what we see today. I'm not sure it's even in the same league. Workers were subjugated in ways that people today can't imagine. They were sometimes paid too little to survive and forced to work under the most extreme and hazardous conditions which more often than not put them in an early grave.

Now certainly socialists were around in America as early as the 19th century, and certainly the peak of socialism coincided with the rise of unionism, at least prior to the Great Depression. You seem to suggest that unionism owes it's rise to socialists. I would suggest the opposite. Socialism fell out of favor even before the Great Depression and has yet to once again see it's turn of the century peak. Meanwhile unionism continued to rise decades after the Great Depression when socialism was clearly well in decline. Even at it's peak, socialism never was able to achieve anything approaching significant political power, but unionism had significant political pull for decades even to some degree today. The best I'd be willing to concede is there may have been a narrow historical window when socialists and unionists worked together to achieve common goals. Those days are long gone and I doubt they will ever return, at least in the US.

Now that the country is transitioning from a manufacturing society to a service society, unions will continue to become even more irrelevant. While I wish that weren't the case, I'm not going to turn a blind eye to what's going on and the reality of the situation.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Yeah, that whole hunting season declared out on socialists for the better part of last century....
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 09:10 PM by liberation
... had nothing to do with their demise. It was just a simple "falling out of favor" due to the changing seasonal fashion tastes, right?

There were some notable Americans who had to live in exile due to their affiliation with socialist parties. For crying out loud. Not even the nazi party has been as prosecuted in the USA as the socialist and communist parties have been.

You do not seem to understand the correlation between socialist parties and labor movements at all... Also, why on earth are service positions and unification somehow incompatible?
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #77
92. You should learn to chill out. You might live longer.
I offered no speculation regarding why socialism fizzled in the US, I only pointed out that it did which is historically accurate. Why you would read something into my statement that wasn't there is anyone's guess.

Cheers!
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. "They were sometimes paid too little to survive..."
"They were sometimes paid too little to survive and forced to work under the most extreme and hazardous conditions which more often than not put them in an early grave."

You could just as easily be describing 2010, you know.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #80
93. If my goal were to minimize the conditions of the Great Depression...
then yes, I could.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
94. Really?
And in your mind what was the "heyday of unions"?

Was it Samuel Gompers AFL that (originally) represented mostly professional Craft Unions?

Was it the CIO that was more representative of non profesional laborers and factory workers?

Was it when unions were under assault for communist sympathies during either of the red scares?

Have you done any actual reading or research on the topic?

Power has never conceded anything without struggle and some of the most important strikes of the 20th century included socialists.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
96. Also...
"Socialism fell out of favor even before the Great Depression and has yet to once again see it's turn of the century peak."

This statement is not even remotely historically accurate.

Minnesota had a governor in the 30's that ran and won as a socialist.

Additionally the idea that it simply "fell out of favor" ignores the persecution, red baiting, and illegal attacks on communists and socialists in America during the one of the first red scares that took place from the late 1910's through the twenties.



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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Bull butter
You're trying to tell me that one governor in the 30's means the socialist movement was just as vibrant as the turn of the century which claimed dozens of elected politicians at all levels of government all over the US? I suppose next you'll say that because Bernie Sanders is an advocate for social democracy, the socialist movement is just as vibrant today as it ever was.

And don't even pretend I'm implying something I'm not because you lack the literacy skills necessary to figure out when someone is using an idiom. You're already a day late and a dollar short as another subliterate sexual intellectual beat you to it. See post #92 for further reading.

Have a nice day!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. posted in wrong place - delete
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 10:58 AM by Tierra_y_Libertad
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Lets outlaw jobs!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
60. Thats a little "out there"...even for me.
No.
We DON"T have to go that far.
ALL we need to do is return to the Pro-Working Class policies and Tax Structure of the FDR administration.

I would be more than happy to settle for THIS:
"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”<2> People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."--FDR

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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
61. If labor had capital they could work for themselves.
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 05:19 PM by county worker
The problem is that labor cannot afford to go into business. Only the wealthy have capital. Capitalism is capital making more capital. Workers are a necessary evil, getting less necessary every day. The struggle is for capital.

There is an idea in Europe that labor is part of the stakeholder group. The stakeholders are the customers, the workers, the owners, the suppliers and the neighbors in the area. The idea is that all stakeholders benefit from the enterprise.

Here we have shareholders. We say that only shareholder interests should benefit.

The only way for workers in this country to protect their interests is to unite. Individuals have little power but unions have more.

There needs to be global unionization just as there is global corporatism.


Lyrics to All The Weary Mothers Of The Earth :
(J. Baez)

All the weary mothers of the earth will finally rest;
We will take their babies in our arms, and do our best.
When the sun is low upon the field,
To love and music they will yield,
And the weary mothers of the earth will rest.

And the farmer on his tractor, and beside his plow,
Will stand there in confusion as we wet his brow
With the tears of all the businessmen
Who see what they have done to him,
And the weary farmers of the earth shall rest.

And the aching workers of the world again shall sing
These words in mighty choruses to all will bring -
"We shall no longer be the poor,
For no one owns us any more,"
And the workers of the world again shall sing.

And when the soldiers burn their uniforms in every land,
And the foxholes at the borders will be left unmanned -
General, when you come for the review
The troops will have forgotten you,
And the men and women of the earth shall rest
< All The Weary Mothers Of The Earth Lyrics on http://www.lyricsmania.com/ >



On edit, those of us who do not like unions are similar to the wing nuts that vote against their own best interests. The owners of capital don't give a shit about us!
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
81. The genius of capitalists is that they don't produce anything
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 09:28 PM by liberation
yet they manage to make our whole socioeconomic system dependent on an abstract non-existent invisible concept, such as "capital." Over Which of course and conveniently, they have full control.

Can you eat capital? No.
Can you live under a roof made of capital? No.
Can you refine something from capital as a raw material? No.


It is, as far as I am concerned, one of the most ingenious scams ever perpetrated. Heck, they even upped their ante with the stock market, another fairly pyramidal in nature scam. It is no coincidence that capitalists talk about invisible non existent things, like the "invisible hand" or anthropomorphizing abstract concepts like "the market." Because at the end of the day, they really don't have anything "real." Of course they manage to buy real assets later on, but they use "capital" to do so. I think of it as the world's most daring poker bluff ever.

In a sense, capitalist replaced the old feudal power structure... which was based around similar "invisible" and abstract things like religion, faith, and divine power vested on the monarchy to justify their grip on power. It is no coincidence, that a modern corporation resembles in structure, and function, and old feudal county.

And this is nothing new. It is amazing how easily humans fall in line behind a scam as the basis for their social organization. I am almost of the opinion that it must be an evolutionary device that humans do so.

In the end, the funny part is that capital needs labor (in order to realize the physical assets their abstraction represent), while... if one really thinks about it, labor if it were properly organized and had an open exchange mechanism... would not need capital, at all.
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #81
90. Can you refine something from capital as a raw material? Yes, Gold
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. US companies are making huge profits in this "recession" - they are working
their employees harder, longer and with fewer benefits and they companies are awash with cash, yet will not hire more than a minimum number of people.

I often wonder how much unemployment is deliberately caused by the employers because the Dems are in power now and they want a slow economy to make people angry.

Of course I'm just paranoid.

mark
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Out of curiousity...
Why would they hire more people than they need? Just askin'
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. Answer..
Because since the 1980's production efficiency has skyrocketed while American wages have stagnated or fallen. A sickening trend has developed since.

Using employment layoffs and job reduction as a company cost cutting tool.

Then asking the remaining employees to produce more, work harder for no pay raise.

The bossman takes his new profit stream and runs to the bank.

Corporate CEO's slash jobs by the perhaps 10's of thousands within their company, then take home $500 million dollar annual pay packages in many instances.

They also determine the workload of a worker when they determine how many employees they need.

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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. Agree 100%
And, it's not paranoia.

You've opened your eyes and seen how fucked up everything is and your survival mechanisms are trying to tell you something. Humans are wise to listen to their survival instincts. Those instincts are usually right.

I wish more people would open their eyes and see it for what it is. That we've been brainwashed and lied to.

That great lie: Hard work pays.

You, my good man, have long opened your eyes. I wish more people would.

Peace

:hi:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. Now there is a 'MOVEMENT' other than a bowel movement teabagger bullshit.
K & R!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. kick!
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. I know exactly what you mean. And yes it really does need to become a movement.
:fistbump:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Certainly would counter teabagg'n nutballers now wouldn't it.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's a formula in action since the 70s. Nt
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. It doesn't help that so many dumbasses in America worship "low low prices"
"But OMG if they raise the minimum wage I'll have to pay a little more for things and we can't have that!"
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
64. Low wages sadly feed that addiction. I totally agree. nt
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Of course - they also are bankrupt - there is a reason people don't sell turnip juice
you can't get money out of a bankrupt company and no job isn't a demand many are looking to get
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. ...
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. I was once able to prove saving the company an extra million one year, my raise? 23 cents per hr.
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 08:40 AM by slampoet
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. You are an excellent investment for that company...
and if you can make more money somewhere else then you should go ahead and do that.
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. "you should"
ergot of the smug? really?
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Why not? Every company wants someone like you who is looking for
ways to save money so if you're that valuable you should be able to find a much higher paying job somewhere else.

Also they should take money from your coworkers who didn't come up with the idea, because you're more valuable than they are, so you should demand before you leave that they all get docked 23 cents an hour for not saving the company over $1 Million like you did.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. You document exactly how you saved that company 1 million and then you go to another company.
Let the company you work for know why you are leaving.
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. Thanks for sharing.
That's exactly what is wrong with this entire country.

:grr:
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
65. Jack Welch turned himself into a hero by taking GE employee suggestions like that
and claiming credit for him. My father devised a process that saved his factory several million and growing and they gave him a vinyl jacket with the company logo on it.

The joke at that particular GE factory was "Ol' Jacky boy may have been an idiot in real life, but he made one smart decision that keeps the legend alive. He read the employee suggestion box. Now who wants this fucking jacket?" The plastics division made them one of the biggest players in raw materials, yet even the division manager overseeing their growth got screwed. He left GE for publishing.

It's a common problem in a bureaucratic work system. Rewards funnel to the top. I experience that daily in my small place of work as well. They tell you to make your boss look smart. No one has taught the boss a sense of decency in most cases.


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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. Yes, Yes,. Yes, Yes, Yes, No, No, Yes, Yes.
Gee that's an easy quiz!
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. ..
:fistbump:

:hi:
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
20. K & R!!! nt.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. Good points - we should all quit our jobs today in protest!!!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
95. You first.
Go ahead, I'll be right behind you.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
23. YES TO ALLL!!!
Corporations shouldn't profit off the labor of the working poor!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. Robert Reich agrees. So do I. K&R
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304222504575173780671015468.html

The Jobs Picture Still Looks Bleak
Many outsourced jobs will never return, and median income will likely continue to fall just like it did during the last so-called recovery.

Some economic cheerleaders say rising stock prices are making consumers feel wealthier and therefore readier to spend. But most Americans' biggest asset is their homes. The "wealth effect" is felt mainly by the richest 10%, whose net worth is largely stocks and bonds. The top 10% accounted for about half of total national income in 2007. But they were only about 40% of total spending. A vigorous jobs recovery can't be based on 40% of what was spent before the economy collapsed.

What's likely to slow the jobs recovery most, however, is the indubitable reality that many of the jobs that have been lost will never return.

The Great Recession has accelerated a structural shift in the economy that had been slowly building for years. Companies have used the downturn to aggressively trim payrolls, making cuts they've been reluctant to make before. Outsourcing abroad has increased dramatically. Companies have discovered that new software and computer technologies have made many workers in Asia and Latin America almost as productive as Americans, and that the Internet allows far more work to be efficiently moved to another country without loss of control.
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. In my own little perfect dream world..
Hilda Solis would ask Robert Reich to come aboard the Dept. of Labor and help her implement the newly signed EFCA.

Example, she could ask Reich to head a task force to help implement the new law.

I hope that dream comes true some day.

Thanks for the link.

:hi:
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Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
29. I don't know...
Stand up so they can fire us and hire someone willing to take the job for 1/3 less than your take home pay? I've been looking myself and can't find a job paying more than $30k/year in San Diego, CA right now... $15/hr requires college degrees and multiple years of specific experience.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Deet de ddddeeeee.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. Yes.
And the last 12 administration's fascination with big business has warped our very perception of America.

It's business 101-R, the business life-cycle, big business has reached 95% of its potential and the only way to increase profits is from shedding workers and suppressing competition. If we really wanted a great "Main Street economy" we would be pouring money into small businesses and passing legislation tht encourages innovation and competition.

We do just the opposite and wonder why "nothing helps".


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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
35. Mine is not but he is rare
And a progressive.

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
38. k/r
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Kicked and Recommended!!!
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
43. They have joined w/politicians to keep wages low w/artificial/rigged Cost of Living indices. nt
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Joined at the wallet...errr hip!
:fistbump:

:hi:
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
46. American workers very competitive, American bosses very uncompetitive
The problems we have in trade and the work place are not because American workers are overpaid, be they teachers, factory people or white collars. The problem is the American management, and the other elites are grossly overpaid.

European and Asian ceos, earn but a 10th of what American CEO's earn, and I think they actually earn it. American CEO's do not deserve their fat paychecks as they have no idea how to manage their business to sustain and grow the business. They are more preoccupied with how they can loot the business (realize value in their ling).
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Actually, that is an observation that very few people in our country have managed to make....
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 03:53 PM by liberation
American labor is among the most productive, if not right out the most productive, work force in the world.

American management is the highest paid in the world, with a difference, yet their performance is fairly pedestrian.


Yet, we're outsourcing our labor, which is where we have a significant edge in productivity, while we keep the under performing part (management) put. Oh, well...

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Texano78704 Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
47. ...and killing us
Vowing to step up health and safety enforcement, U.S. Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis was in Houston on Wednesday calling for more worker education and empowerment so employees know their rights to safe workplaces.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6959448.html
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
48. The more the corporation makes by paying you less means you get more when it trickles down!!!
Why do you hate America????

:sarcasm:
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. We need a global labor union
to demand fair wages. Otherwise the downward pressure will continue as other countries do not share the same standards.



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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. We could call it The Internationale!
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
51. The Republican party? Shit, that's a given...
The real problem is protecting workers from both parties.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. I'm fairly compensated, I'm a Union worker.
My contractor makes money, I make money, everyone is reasonably happy.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Cheers to you and all Union workers - WE need to fight to make sure everyone
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 04:50 PM by GreenTea
has a right to a Union, at free will with no repercussions from management & corporations!!

Imagine ALL workers being protected by their Unions, better safety standards, better pay, better benefits with more allowable vacation & sick pay!

Instead of CEO & stockholders making hundreds of millions of dollars & bonuses a year at the non-Union workers expense!

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. I'm right there with you.
I'm all about fighting for the right to organize.

United we bargain, Divided we beg.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
54. Republicans love recesion-The work force out of work will work for near nothing, increasing profits
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 04:44 PM by GreenTea
for the corporations as they watch their stocks climb & climb.

Of course one knows the republicans are the party of the corporations, NEVER the workers.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. Is a bear Catholic?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. Man, its time to protect the Middle Class and Working Poor....
...from the "Centrist" Democrats.
I can't believe that you could find a "Democrat" today still pushing the myth of a "Free Market" and "Free Trade".

BULLETIN:
There is NO Giant Invisible Hand of the Free Market.
"They" (The Ownership Class) made that shit up...just like Santa and the Easter Bunny.


All Hail the Giant Invisible Hand!
The Giant Invisible Hand will save us all.
The Giant Invisible Hand demands that we sacrifice the American Working Class!
We must not offend the Giant Invisible Hand!
All Hail the Giant Invisible Hand!

.
.
.
And people say the Democrats are Anti-Religion.
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. "Free" Trade is like a steroid injection of evil into capitalism.
:fistbump:

Thanks for adding.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. I love the euphemisms they come up to sell their hubris. "Free trade" is one of my faves...
... I assume that "cheaper overseas labor, reduced domestic taxation, and increased corporate profits" was not as marketable.
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
59. hell yeah!
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
62. This is news??? Going on for centuries.
Read Eugene V. Debs and Norman Thomas.

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Dr Morbius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
67. Sounds great! But HOW? (nt)
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Phlem Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
68. Do you really have to ask?
I was wondering what the point of this post was as everyone pretty knows this. Cause it only serves to piss people off.

-p
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. The point is THIS:
At one time, The Democratic Party DID protect us from the Robber Barons.
It is time to hold our elected "Democrats" accountable to "Democratic" Values.

"As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”<2> People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."---FDR


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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
69. Duh
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. We need wages and minimum waged hooked to inflation rates ....
Those making $40,000 right now would be making $70,000 had that been the case

over the decades!!
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
74. I think I'm underpaid....
...for the work I do in metal stud framing and hanging drywall, but if I complain that employers are hiring illegals at bottom-of-the-barrel wages, I'm a racist fuck who just hates brown people because I draw unemployment rather than work at half the wage I've enjoyed for fifteen years. I just wonder if the op could clarify something. Are employers screwing Americans who have lived here and worked all their adult lives to achieve some level of the "American Dream" only to have it dashed to the curb because there is much cheaper labor available, or are they saying "fuck you you racist shit" and have decided the employers are screwing those who have made use of an opportunity to provide a better life than their own country is unable or unwilling to do. I'm being screwed allright, but the employers have plenty of help right here on the left in doing it. Thanks.
quickesst
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TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. The employers have the upper hand, right now.
They know that most workers won't complain or try to unionize or organize. Those that don't organize will continue to lose, give up benefits and wages until they are finally replaced by illegals or newly arrived aliens that work for cheap.

If you don't organize or unionize, you will be doing more for less, giving up more and more of your dignity, until it's all finally exhausted and you are left out completely.

That's how American "free" (cheap labor) enterprise works. AS more and more of the workforce is NOT unionized, the rest of you are fair game for a scam.

Good luck. You may need it.

Tell tell your representative and Senator you want the Employee Free Choice Act passed.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
76. All corporate profit is theft of wealth from workers.
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dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
78. It's time to recalibrate.
Workers have become more efficient. Computers and robots are doing a lot of work for us. We need to organize a populist push for higher wages, earlier retirement, and a 30 hour work-week. There simply isn't the need for labor there used to be, yet we still need to earn a living. We should learn to live more simply and have more free time.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
82. A great book: "Work Abuse"
I read the book, "Work Abuse" and marveled at how much worker abuse happens in so many different fields. My ex was a teacher and I was an engineer, but even with completely different careers, we both encountered the identical and systematic abuse from our hierarchies at work. It was an interesting book and it validated all the thoughts we were having.

I talked with one of the authors and thought it would make a great subject for a documentary movie.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
83. A great book: "Work Abuse"
I read the book, "Work Abuse" and marveled at how much worker abuse happens in so many different fields. My ex was a teacher and I was an engineer, but even with completely different careers, we both encountered the identical and systematic abuse from our hierarchies at work. It was an interesting book and it validated all the thoughts we were having.

I talked with one of the authors and thought it would make a great subject for a documentary movie.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
84. Sorry, but BOTH PARTIES are to blame.
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 09:41 PM by earth mom
Hell Yes, the middle class, working class and working poor have been totally screwed-but far too many refuse to see the cause is on BOTH sides of the aisle in Washington DC.

The time for cheerleading and the rah rah rah bullshit is OVER.

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mrmpa Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
85. Is this a rhetorical question?
Just saying.
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j420norcal Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
86. I SAY YES & OK!!... (Now what do we do?) n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
87. Now time for my usual correction
WE ARE ALL WORKING CLASS.

We are all workers...

Middle class, nice construct, but time to start talking the truth.

Oh and high time to start organizing again.

By the way, we already have lost a lot of room by not doing that.

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Stumbler Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
88. A: Yes, due to the modern inefficiency of striking caused by overpopulation
Face it, it's the one fact no one wants to discuss: the human population is growing too large. Besides the obvious demands on food and water, the demand on decent-paying, safe & abundant jobs is a direct result from having too many people "in the marketplace".

Once upon a time, the workers of an industry could unite and walk out of an under-paying job which forced the owner to provide concessions in order to get them back to work. With today's overpopulation and mechanization every worker is replaceable. And as such, if any employee threatens to walk off the job, they're immediately replaced by folks who are either less-skilled and/or willing to work for lower wages or under less-safe conditions.

That's why I support 'Fewer Babies & Better Regulations Now!'
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
89. I work for the State of Missouri
If I did what I did in he corporate world, I could command close to 200% of what I make now.

I do what I do for a few simple reasons:

1> I am exceptionally close to work. I drive two miles and I am there.
2> My last job left me, and they gave me a chance after 3 years of unemployment rusted my skills
3> I know I am doing something worthwhile.
4> I like my boss, and I like my job environment.

I won't stay where I am if I don't see improved compensation by the time I reach 5 years of service (I earned the pension, then).

As frustrating as it is to know less qualified are making significantly more than me, I am doing OK. I am not starving, and I do see the fruits of my labor as a slingshot towards the future.

If I was doing what I am doing in private industry and the 4 points above were not in place, I doubt I would stick around.
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Naturalist111 Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
91. No they are robbing us in plain open sight. Robbing us
of our life either economically and or our health. We just go along with it.
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