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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:21 PM Original message |
Why I believe in a Progressive Income Tax: The rich use more resources |
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onehandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:25 PM Response to Original message |
1. Obama is a Socialist Muslim Nazi! |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:27 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. And I heard that in secret, he drinks the blood of White Christian Virgins! |
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Zoroastor (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:36 PM Response to Original message |
3. Nor do the rich contribute equally... |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:40 PM Response to Original message |
4. There's PORN on the Interwebs?!?!? |
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Tennessee Gal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:42 PM Response to Original message |
5. You are so right! |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:45 PM Response to Original message |
6. Does Mr. WD also need Mr. FC's cargo protected when crossing |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:53 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Again, if Mr WD's new dishwasher gets stolen en route to the US |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:58 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. If Mr. FC's dishwashers have a habit of going missing in transit, |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:59 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. I think Mr. WD would love to buy a US-made computer |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:03 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. If Mr. WD buys a US-Made computer |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:09 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Yup, and Mr. FC keeps the profit. |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:12 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. Which he uses (some of) to hire people like Mr. WD |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:22 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. But in reality, he uses the government to protect him against Mr. WD. |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:27 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. So he builds computers domestically with foreign workers? |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:42 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. In the real world, Mr. FC does not build computers domestically because |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:19 PM Response to Reply #19 |
34. That was your premise, not mine. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:11 PM Response to Reply #6 |
32. but we don't need to get most goods from overseas. we could produce most of them here. |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. Sure we could, but we don't... |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:36 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. the op didn't suggest people get "no benefit," so i'm not sure why you're flogging that straw man. |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:55 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. The OP listed a bunch of benefits to Mr. FC |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 04:17 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. One doesn't flog a straw man |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:09 PM Response to Reply #41 |
50. Want specifics? OK - the 2% that control 98% of the wealth |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 06:45 PM Response to Reply #50 |
59. I didn't ask or want them |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:52 PM Response to Original message |
7. Mr. Fat Cat's Argument (not to be confused with -my- argument) |
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Fozzledick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 12:58 PM Response to Original message |
9. Just a little bit of basic capitalist economic theory |
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alc (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:02 PM Response to Original message |
12. while I also beleive progressive income taxes are good |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:27 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. also, Mr FC pays 1000X more taxes but doesn't benefit 1,000x from services |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:47 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. How much does it cost to protect ships in the Red Sea? |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:12 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. I consider myself a rich person. I have no ships in the Red Sea. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:36 PM Response to Reply #25 |
28. How rich would you be if the government didn't back our currency? |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:40 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. How well could you feed YOUR family without safe currency? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. We agree that progressive taxation is needed. |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 04:43 PM Response to Reply #30 |
43. I'm arguing with your premise that Mr. WD gets little out of government |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 06:03 PM Response to Reply #43 |
57. Yes! Yes! Yes! |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 07:25 PM Response to Reply #43 |
62. I'd love to stick around and argue with your strawman. |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 07:33 PM Response to Reply #43 |
63. "Little" and "Less" are not synonyms. (nt) |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:05 PM Response to Reply #25 |
46. You are probably not rich defined by those who 'have' |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:15 PM Response to Reply #18 |
33. the biggest "services" the little guy gets are medicare & social security, both are worker-funded. |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:47 PM Response to Reply #12 |
21. Ah, but the RATE is not what he PAYS. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:48 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Very good point |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:10 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. No rich person I know gets away with only 20% federal taxes |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:18 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. You pay that rate on what's left over after deductions, same as I do. |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 02:22 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Yet even after all those vaunted deductions, I pay the maximum federal rate. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:21 PM Response to Reply #27 |
35. you need better accountants. 2/3 of corps paid no taxes in 2009 |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 04:46 PM Response to Reply #35 |
45. I didn't think we were talking about corporations. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 11:09 PM Response to Reply #45 |
78. i addressed that in the post as well. |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:44 PM Response to Reply #24 |
39. What do you consider rich? |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 04:41 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. Income of a million a year. Or liquid assets of 5 million. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:06 PM Response to Reply #42 |
47. Not rich |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:12 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. Well, you don't know what I make. Or what I control. |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:23 PM Response to Reply #52 |
72. The one problem I have with that statistic ... |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:31 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. I agree that the Wikipedia number is suspect |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 11:39 PM Response to Reply #24 |
79. Then you must not know too many rich people |
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Overseas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 01:50 PM Response to Original message |
23. K&R ! //nt |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:00 PM Response to Original message |
31. You're not going to win much using that argument |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:06 PM Response to Reply #31 |
48. No - I'm just saying that a Progressive income tax makes sense |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 06:46 PM Response to Reply #48 |
60. I would certainly agree with that part |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 03:35 PM Response to Original message |
37. Mr. FC uses more NATURAL RESOURCES. |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 04:45 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. What if Mr. FC owns hundreds of acres of conservation land |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:09 PM Response to Reply #44 |
51. You get tax cuts for that! |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:18 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. No you don't. You don't get TAX CUTS for owning land. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:24 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. No, that's what SHOULD be the case |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:26 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Excuse me. I own hundreds of acres of conservation land. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:29 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. I am a Ricardian Socialist |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 07:43 PM Response to Reply #56 |
64. A few points about rich people |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:14 PM Response to Reply #64 |
70. But do you think targeting them for taxation is unfair? |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:15 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Not unfair at all. I think they should be taxed at 50%. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:42 PM Response to Reply #71 |
74. Gotchya. How about the FDR rates - of 90%? |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 07:55 PM Response to Reply #44 |
65. What if he DONATED his money to a conservation group to buy land where most appropriate? |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:11 PM Response to Reply #65 |
69. Because BUYING land at cost is expensive for conservation groups |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 05:08 PM Response to Reply #37 |
49. Yes, there is that |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 06:08 PM Response to Original message |
58. This is also the reason they should pay higher property taxes too |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:05 PM Response to Reply #58 |
66. You are aware they pay about as much as you do? |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 06:47 PM Response to Original message |
61. They spend alot more time in civil court, too. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:09 PM Response to Original message |
67. And Mr. Smith (of the Wealth of Nations) would agree with you |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 08:10 PM Response to Original message |
68. Also, most of the federal government budget actually goes back to them. |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 09:14 PM Response to Original message |
75. Those who benefit most from our system should pay the most back.... |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 09:59 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Exactly. |
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Bigmack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-15-10 10:16 PM Response to Original message |
77. The rich should pay more because they have... |
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