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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:22 PM Original message |
Question about "Well regulated militias" |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
1. Like the 3/5 compromise, it's an antiquated notion |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:27 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. For proliferationists, "well regulated militia" means any enraged nut who wants military-grade |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:43 PM Response to Reply #3 |
23. What a lovely fluffy strawman you have there. nt |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:49 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. What a lovely way to avoid what you think"regulated" means. nt |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:30 PM Response to Reply #28 |
56. well regulated = effective, functioning, in good order, maintained n/t |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:50 PM Response to Reply #56 |
77. as determined by who? The NRA? n/t |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:02 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. As determined by supporting documents of the time period. The NRA canard? Come on. |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:21 PM Response to Reply #80 |
85. "The documents of the period." Ergo, as discussed elsewhere in this thread |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:26 PM Response to Reply #85 |
86. And if the second amendment were the source of the right, that would have some bearing.. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. The applicability of law, statutes, amendments can change. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 06:03 PM Response to Reply #85 |
95. If you'd like to change the constitution, there's a legally sanctioned method for doing that. |
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tburnsten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:54 PM Response to Reply #28 |
104. "Regulate" has many meanings |
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michreject (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #3 |
75. That would be nice |
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wysimdnwyg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:26 PM Response to Original message |
2. These militias are missing a vital piece to that |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:30 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. That to me, would mean that Fred and his buddies are more or less a club |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:44 PM Response to Reply #2 |
24. "Well regulated" in 1700s parlance meant "properly functioning." |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:56 PM Response to Reply #2 |
34. Actually, that's pretty close to what it does mean... |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:35 PM Response to Reply #34 |
62. Not the case |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:45 PM Response to Reply #62 |
102. That's what I said. |
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Walk away (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:30 PM Response to Original message |
4. My old neighbors in Rutherford belonged to that "well regulated militia" |
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HopeHoops (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:30 PM Response to Original message |
6. It obviously means that I should have a rocket launcher mounted on the roof of my minivan. |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:32 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Uhmm. If someone gets in line with more items than allowed in the express line, |
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HopeHoops (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:32 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. That was EXACTLY my thinking. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:32 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. With the Apache, the neighbor-loud-party problem |
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HopeHoops (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:35 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Or that BECOMES the problem. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
7. All males 17-45 are part of the unorganized militia (hence manditory registration). |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:33 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Sort of. We have a selective service system in place to facilitate a draft, |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:35 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. true, true, I was shorthand-ing it. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:37 PM Response to Reply #7 |
16. Deleted sub-thread |
The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:34 PM Response to Original message |
12. Technically, Sir |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:39 PM Response to Reply #12 |
19. Then by your definition, then all citizens of this country are designated as |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:47 PM Response to Reply #19 |
27. Pretty Much, Sir, Yes |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:52 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. so if we agree we're working with antiquated definitions... |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:08 PM Response to Reply #30 |
42. Hard To Say, Sir |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:26 PM Response to Reply #42 |
52. I agree, Mr. Magistrate! |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:35 PM Response to Reply #30 |
64. A quote about antiquated definitions... |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:41 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. The Discussion Here, Sir, Concerns The Meaning Of 'Militia', And Extends No Further |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:49 PM Response to Reply #67 |
76. Today yes however nothing would prevent that from changing. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:58 PM Response to Reply #76 |
79. Fair Enough, Sergeant |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:07 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Agreed it is unlikely we will ever have a militia that is in keeping with founder's vision. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:14 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. If We Are Not Careful, Sergeant, This Could Degenerate Into A 'Gungeon' Wrangle |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:18 PM Response to Reply #82 |
84. "the authors of that amendment had a definite purpose in mind, which purpose has failed in our day." |
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amandabeech (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:57 PM Response to Reply #27 |
105. It would have to be a desperation move, no doubt. |
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:36 PM Response to Original message |
15. Man, let's keep the crazy bait in the crazy pen, shall we? -nt |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:37 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. Oh let them out to run once in awhile |
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:38 PM Response to Reply #17 |
18. They tear up the toilet paper and ruin the couches. No. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:03 PM Response to Reply #18 |
38. Gotcha. |
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Walk away (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:03 PM Response to Reply #15 |
39. I have them all on "Ignore". It took forever! |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:06 PM Response to Reply #39 |
40. They're like Africanized bees |
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Walk away (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:31 PM Response to Reply #40 |
59. All I ever see are little black Ignores. nt |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:08 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. I don't know if you have me on ignore, |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:10 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. Always an interesting topic. Thanks for posting! n/t |
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Walk away (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:30 PM Response to Reply #41 |
57. No, in order to get on my "Ignore List".... |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 05:46 PM Response to Reply #57 |
93. I think it would be great for cities and states all over America to ... |
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Walk away (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 06:08 PM Response to Reply #93 |
97. Your wish is my command! Bye! nt |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 06:11 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. Guess I should have used a sarcasm tag. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 06:07 PM Response to Reply #57 |
96. Your ignore list must be pretty short, since no one ever posts that. |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:52 PM Response to Reply #39 |
78. I know what you mean... |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:40 PM Response to Original message |
20. The "state militias" of today are called the National Guard. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:53 PM Response to Reply #20 |
31. The NG accounts for only part of the state militias - the Organized part |
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Turbineguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:42 PM Response to Original message |
21. The guys who came up with that were of course |
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DCBob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:43 PM Response to Original message |
22. Clearly the founding founders did not intend for this amendment to be interpreted the way.. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:46 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. Please do some rereading of the constitution. |
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DCBob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:49 PM Response to Reply #25 |
29. Ok... but independent of the US military... |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:59 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Not So Much Independent Of As Alternative To, Sir |
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DCBob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:14 PM Response to Reply #37 |
46. You make it sound more like a military strategy than a right of the citizens.. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:23 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. It Was A Military Strategy, Sir |
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DCBob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:25 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Would you mind droppng the "sir" crap? |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:28 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. The Instinct For The Capillary You Demonstrate, Sir, Is Amusing In A Small Way |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:31 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. Deleted message |
The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:43 PM Response to Reply #58 |
70. You Put Me In Mind Of A Favorite Tee-Shirt, Sir.... |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 04:27 PM Response to Reply #46 |
90. Because the militia and the right to bear arms are many things, not just one. |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:57 PM Response to Reply #25 |
35. "They were, and are, reserve troops under the command of the President." |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:40 PM Response to Reply #35 |
66. Except their group is not even a militia. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 04:30 PM Response to Reply #35 |
91. Correct. The end result is what Statistical said. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:55 PM Response to Reply #22 |
33. That's right, and any group of individuals that call themselves a "militia" is not a lawful one |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:59 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. That's correct, except possibly the case of Oklahoma which is thinking |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:16 PM Response to Reply #36 |
47. It Certainly Does, Sir |
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Gaedel (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 06:13 PM Response to Reply #36 |
99. It can, but doesn't necessarily have to |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:47 PM Response to Original message |
26. I say Obama should put 'em to the test |
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Bonhomme Richard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:20 PM Response to Reply #26 |
49. He should call all those militias and send them to Afghanistan. n/t |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:35 PM Response to Reply #49 |
63. Heh, that would scare them back under their rocks n/t |
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amandabeech (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 09:10 PM Response to Reply #49 |
106. No, he should take Biden's advice and get almost everyone out of there. |
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The Wielding Truth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
32. ...For calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union,... |
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sui generis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:10 PM Response to Original message |
43. The reality-problem with militias |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:19 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. I don't recall what was said, but the point that has been made is that |
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sui generis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:29 PM Response to Reply #48 |
55. I just hope Fred's militia knows that |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:34 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. Interesting, I felt that that exact scenario might have played out |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:10 PM Response to Original message |
44. Actually if militias were left wing liberal run, they would be well regulated. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:27 PM Response to Original message |
53. Calling yourself a militia doesn't make you a militia under the law. |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:39 PM Response to Reply #53 |
65. Unless the state charters your Militia. For example, if Oklahoma charters |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:44 PM Response to Reply #65 |
71. Correct. I was unaware the group in question received a charter. |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #71 |
73. I don't think they have received a charter. I believe there is |
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guitar man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:35 PM Response to Original message |
61. Not sure but |
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Walk away (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:42 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. Back when the Constitution was written they were forced to use prunes. nt |
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guitar man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #68 |
87. tis true |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:45 PM Response to Reply #61 |
72. I think that would be "regularated". |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #61 |
74. +1 |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 02:43 PM Response to Original message |
69. Please read SCOTUS decision D.C. v. Heller, link below, to fin dout what the law says about militia. |
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Bitwit1234 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:15 PM Response to Original message |
83. OK is going to sanction their militia so Obama would be the |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 05:08 PM Response to Reply #83 |
92. That's the funniest part. Imagine him ordering them over to Afghanistan! |
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DailyGrind51 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 04:08 PM Response to Original message |
89. "Well regulated" means that they eat a high fiber diet! ;-} |
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underpants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 05:52 PM Response to Original message |
94. The Constitution doesn't provide for a standing Army |
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AnArmyVeteran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 06:27 PM Response to Original message |
100. Right wing militias are even against the 'WELL REGULATED' part of the 2nd Amendment. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:41 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Well regulated has nothing to do with regulation. Never has and never will. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-20-10 06:38 AM Response to Reply #100 |
110. The Moon, being made of the finest Green Cheese, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, |
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tburnsten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:51 PM Response to Original message |
103. Well, I'm not sure |
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Gaedel (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-20-10 04:55 AM Response to Reply #103 |
108. The Dick Act |
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tburnsten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-20-10 09:39 AM Response to Reply #108 |
111. Now that there is Federal money in it for them |
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AnArmyVeteran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 09:31 PM Response to Original message |
107. 2nd Amendment right wingers are usually CLUELESS about the rest of the Constitution & BoR |
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quaker bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-20-10 06:30 AM Response to Original message |
109. A "well regulated militia" |
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