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ARIZONA- It's not about immigration, it's about exploitation

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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:35 AM
Original message
ARIZONA- It's not about immigration, it's about exploitation
Edited on Wed Apr-28-10 07:41 AM by NJmaverick
While there is certainly very real and legitimate concerns about our Constitution being raped by the AZ Republicans and the civil rights of Hispanic Americans being violated there is another major issue that seems to be over looked.


The AZ law was designed to help wealthy Republicans treat their illegal immigrant help as virtual slaves. The immigrant workers that the Republicans exploit will now be afraid to go to the police. This means their "masters" will be able to beat them, rape them, rob them and imprison them, knowing their victims will never report them. The Republicans always talk about going back to the old days. Well it seems the old days they are talking about are the days of slavery.

After all if the Republicans were concerned about stopping illegal immigration they could EASILY and QUICKLY stop it by going after the people that hire the illegals. Put heavy fines and jail time as the punishment and the jobs go away and the illegals go away. However the Republicans didn't want to give up their house keepers, construction workers, gardeners, day laborers, and nannies. They just wanted to be able to treat them more like slaves.

THAT is what the real horror of the AZ law.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is that a typo in your subject line?
Did you mean "exploitation"? You've typed "exploration."
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Greg Palast said it was about GOP votes.
The GOP is going to lose votes in AZ and wants to
reduce the Hispanic Democratic vote. Brewer also
has a history there that she wants to cover up.

Palast is smart. He's right on this.

The racism, the hate, and the profiling are handy
tools and very very ugly and horrible as well.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. While this may serve to intimidate voters I don't think it will help them
reduce the number of Hispanic Democrats.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'd Like To See A Latino General Strike...
Damn right this is race baiting and intimidation of the highest degree. I've never seen an "invasion" where the invaders end up serving the "vanquished". It's the fear of the rushpublican oligarchy that they're losing both their power and the ability to exploit. This is apartheid as the rushpublicans want to create a second-class...denying rights and human dignity to those who they feel threaten their political and economic power.

I'd really like to see all Hispanics, not only in Arizona, but in other states as well to stage a general strike. Let's see the real impact these people have on our economy and how it's had a positive affect. Let's focus on those who profit from the cheap labor on both sides of the border...arrest and fine those who hire "illegals" on this side of the border and tax American corporates the difference between the hourly wage they pay in Mexico vs. what they would have to pay a union worker here. You'd shut down the "invasion" real fast.

The real "invasion" here should be a major Democratic party effort to organize and get out the Hispanic vote this fall...invade the polls and drive these racists from any position of power.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. It seems the Republicans are doing most of the work
in terms of getting the Hispanic/Latino vote for the Dems
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. You confuse military with ethnic "invasions".
The Slavs started to infiltrate SE Europe in the 400s, and they continued for a hundred years or more. The chronicles talked of them swimming across rivers, arriving by boats, and slowly going from the occasional stranger in a village to having a majority.

By 650 AD the Slavs had a commanding presence in much of SE Asia. Places all through Greece and islands in the Aegean bear Slavic names. Greek had the upper hand in Greece, but a number of languages were swamped, and Greek had its influence sharply curtailed.

Albanians--in Kosovo, for instance--are essentially a community that's done the same thing in reverse. They lost in the lowlands, but gradually infiltrated back and gradually became a majority in some areas. Of course, converting to Islam and having official oppression of non-Muslims helped a bit, but ultimately it was a slow process that involved migration and higher birthrates. Du Nay claimed the same for Romanian, but that's a much more controversial claim: However, the official Romanian view, widely accepted, is parallel to the Greek narrative and only Greeks accept that. It's also parallel to the nascent Kosovar narrative, which wasn't accepted until a couple of decades ago by hardly anybody (including many Albanians), but these days people are scurrying to find reasons to believe it.

In both of the clear-cut cases, though, non-assimilation by the infiltrators was key.

In both cases, the ultimate victors started out as a minority, essentially outcasts looked down upon by the majority.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thats how i see it too
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NikRik Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. Disagree with imagration law,however...
as a 52 year old man who has been unemployed for way to long ,and living in Ca. I can see how some feel something must be done ! This part of our country is being overrun by illegal's that are taking many jobs for less pay that unemployed Americians need badly ! This is a very complex issuse that that must be addressed. Ten $ a hour seems to be what most jobs are now paying a hourly wage I was making 30 years ago and almost all are part time so no benifits are given. You can not live on that pay in Ca. the cost of living is much to high here ,the illegals live 15 people to a home and send most of the $ they make back to their family in Mexico. Iam and will always be a devoted democrat and now I need my party to help me Iam losing everything over this situation my home,my marriage is on the rocks as is my own feeling about my inability to provide for my family, this has put me in a state of depression ! For some they say we are in a recession ,for me its a depression ! Iam always one month away form being homeless,I have worked all my life till now ,I never recieved goverment assitance , I do not want anyone to give me anything except a job with a cost of living wage !
Thank You NikRik
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. All they have to do is prosecute the people exploiting the illegals and the
problem goes away.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Apparently Obama agrees.
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=efe39ec4 -...

In an effort to curtail deep declines in deportations, U.S. Immigration Customs and Enforcement (ICE) Chief John Morton has set new quotas for Office of Detention and Removal (DRO) agents. There has always been a push to outdo the previous year’s accomplishments—it is often how budgets are justified—and for the year ending September 30, 2010, deportations are on pace to reach 310,000, far below both last year’s total of 387,000 and the agency’s stated goal of 400,000. In addition, Morton and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano have signaled a retreat from earlier pledges to concentrate enforcement efforts on the most dangerous immigrants and those involved in criminal activity outside of their own illegal status, likely due to the increased costs and protracted deportation process associated with such criminals. Given the current administration’s policy against immigrant raids, ICE’s enforcement strategy will ramp up efforts to investigate employers.

The Obama administration has publicly, as well as privately, announced that it is more interested in investigating and fining employers for I-9 violations, I-9 policy errors and worker infractions rather than simply removing illegal aliens. In the last eight months, there have been thousands of audits of U.S. companies—some random, some aimed at certain industries and some for cause—aimed at garnering evidence regarding problems with the work authorization and/or immigration status of employees.

Focusing on large, employer audits and investigations rather than individual, home, street and factory raids condoned by the Bush administration, potential investigative strategies may include using data from E-Verify to locate multiple uses of identifying information or documentation, or auditing companies with significant numbers of Final Non-Confirmations (FNCs) of employees’ work eligibility.

This increase in audits, coupled with the hiring of thousands of “forensic auditors” by ICE to review documents and assess fines, only continues to support the position that every employer must have an I-9 policy in place, proper training and procedures to support that policy, and the ability to produce evidence of compliance within a short time.
Companies should be wary of viewing a Notice of Inspection (NOI) as a mere administrative request. As a matter of fact, the recent trend has been to require that vast amounts of documentation be produced within three business days and extensions of that timeframe are regularly being denied. Ultimately, an employer receiving an NOI or facing an audit may want to seek legal counsel prior to producing requested information or materials in order to take steps to identify potential issues and reduce exposure and liability.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks for sharing that. I think that's a good approach
this is something we didn't see with Bush in charge
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. No, you didn't.
It was hung up in the 9th Circuit Court (and the daughter courts) in 2008 and 2009 so they couldn't implement it. It made the newspapers from time to time but the issue mostly lurked around the edges.

In fact, it was one of the more humorous turnabouts. In 2007, people were excoriating employers, saying a means needed to be found so they couldn't say they were unknowingly employing illegal immigrants. So E-Verify v0.1 beta was rolled out, essentially the SSA database. It met the demands, but a lot of people immediately turned around and said that th SSA database had errors and this was unconscionable. Means were worked out to help repair the errors, but ultimately that wasn't the problem. So self-styled immigration advocates fought its implementation.

Of course, any such database will be riddled with errors. And in the case of the SSA database all the errors need to be fixed when you start collecting benefits, so the errors should be caught early. Still, a lot of "have some means of verifying" became staunch advocates of "any means of verification is evil."

Now their positions have changed because while the system is the same as proposed in 2008 and 2009 the assumption was that the software would have been inherently racist with * as president and inherently non-racist with Obama as president. Same software. Same procedures. Same goal. Same mechanisms. Same laws. Same people affected. Trivial differences between the two systems. Different perceptions.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. That's what I don't get - if you want to stop illegal immigrant go after those who give them jobs
I mean, why would they come to America if there were no jobs available to them.

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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's the heart of the matter and the issue the Republicans don't want to talk about
so the media doesn't mention it.
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. what would you have employers do?
As Democrats, would we support employers refusing to hire people of color? That would be the only certain way for them to protect themselves from being arrested for "hiring illegals." Employers hiring immigrants from Europe are under little or no pressure, and white immigrants are fast-tracked through the immigration process, and their paperwork offenses - which is what most of the "illegal" stuff is about - are treated as the minor offenses that they are and usually a warning is the only punishment, not being rounded up in violation of the Constitution, detained and held incommunicado, and under constant fear and anxiety and harassment.

Or should the employer move his operation to just the other side of the border? That would instantly make labor dramatically cheaper, and that is what is in fact happening.

If there are "jobs available to them" then obviously native born people are not taking those jobs.

If an employer is abusing employees, that is a crime no matter where the employees are from.



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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. Finally, something you and I agree on 100%.
K&R
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. +1 nt
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Arizona has rarely invoked its last tough immigration law that bans knowingly hiring illegal immigra
Arizona has rarely invoked its last tough immigration law - Most counties haven't prosecuted anyone under a 2007 act that bans knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/19/nation/la-na-employer-sanctions19-2010apr19
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. naive, foolish and unworkable
People need to think this through. The "punish the employer" mantra is founded on right wing premises - that there is some dire problem that requires drastic measures (their usual way to stir up the public and get people to suspend critical judgment) and that social problems and issues are all police matters and that punishment is the only solution. The racists say "go after them Mexicans!" and then the response from too many Democrats is "go after the employers!" We can paint a picture of fat greedy Republicans enslaving housekeepers and use that to justify supporting the growing police state, but we will live to regret that in my opinion.

First of all, it is not the case that there are two discrete classes of immigrants - legal and illegal. Millions are in limbo, awaiting decision on their status. There is a wide range of situations and most immigrants are trying to comply with the law as best they can. Think about that. Why would they not? I had a racist a while back ranting to me about the immigrants, claiming that it was a matter of enforcing the law and that they were criminals, and then blathering about gangs and crime and such - "you don't know what they are like." Later in the discussion he mockingly said that he could always tell the illegals, because they were driving the speed limit when he raced past them on the highway. So we can tell the criminals because they are the ones obeying the law?

Many immigrants work for small farmers and other small businesses, and many of those owners are progressive and Democrats. They are the ones - the small fry - whom the feds are targeting. Of course. This is America, after all. Employers have no way to know who is and who is not "legal" - nor should it be the employers responsibility to act as de facto agents for law enforcement - without prying into people's backgrounds and personal lives. They cannot delve into the lives of some employees and not others without discriminating, and therefore breaking the law. That means that they would have to invade the privacy of ALL employees and become in essence cops, and become cops in the super-heated police state atmosphere that now dominates the public imagination and informs government actions and decisions. Be careful what you wish for.

There is no way to "solve" this supposed "problem" without racial profiling - how else can we "know" who is and who is not potentially "illegal?" Threatening small employers with fines and jail - which is happening - because they are failing to violate the rights and privacy of their employees or failing to racially profile people can never be a "solution." Otherwise, to weed out the "illegals" would require all of us to be seen as guilty until proved innocent and be presumed to "be illegal" until and unless we can prove to the authorities, and now their de facto agents, the employers, that we have permission to work - to breathe, to live, to go about our lives. That is the very essence of a police state. That is why the right wingers are stirring all of this hatred up. Not to solve any problem regarding immigration, but to get the public to accept a police state.

If employers are abusing employees - no matter who the employees are or where they are from - that is already criminal. Bringing immigrants in from the cold - with amnesty - is their best protection from the abuse at the hands of employers. Organizing unions is another check against that, and immigrants are revitalizing and driving the Labor movement today. They are doing a great service for all of us with that work. Increased police efforts will only drive people underground and make the problem worse. This desire for police action is like a drug. Taking the drug will create more craving, and the craving for it will grow and grow. And the problem is not "illegal immigrants" the problem is a white population driven have insane with racist hysteria and ready to support, embrace and cooperate with a police state.

Whom do we view as a suspect? Everyone? Certain people? Upon what basis? We now have Homeland Security encouraging employers to "turn over" their "suspects." Since employers cannot know that the Hispanic person was born here, and the white person may be the child of an undocumented Polish immigrant, race is not a reliable indicator is it? Not if we truly are trying to solve this problem, not if the problem is as the right wingers are framing it. Yet what, other than race, could possibly be the basis for suspecting someone? Homeland Security is also telling immigrants that if they are undocumented - which the employer probably does not know - that they should snitch on the employer in exchange for lenient treatment. Workers are being told to snitch on co-workers they "suspect" - upon what basis could they be suspecting people? Homeland Security agents are interrogating and intimidating grade school children at school bus stops - not white children of course - about their parents and neighbors.

How can the feds find these evil employers? How are they finding them? By staging paramilitary raids, just as they did under Bush, only much worse, rounding up the brown people and then also holding the employer criminally liable for any crimes committed by their employees. This is a recipe for police state Hell, and we are far down that path already - much too far.

The Republican cry - "round up the Mexicans!" - and the Democratic cry - "round up the employers!" - are the two solid legs upon which a monstrous police state can firmly stand and then strut across the country and eventually turn on all of us. We can either suspect people based on race, or we can be suspicious of everyone. When people become suspicious of everyone, and are encouraged to turn over family members, friends, co-workers, employees, neighbors and strangers, we have a police state and none of us will be safe from that.

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