Handicap fountain installed on 2nd floor, which is only accessible via a staircase

[The Straight Story]

Handicap fountain — on 2nd floor?

In the Columbia County courthouse, there’s a new, handicapped-accessible water fountain. There’s only one problem — the fountain is on the building’s second floor, which is only accessible via a staircase.

County Public Works Commissioner David Robinson told the Register-Star the fountain was placed there in March 2008, but several courthouse employees said the accessible fountain was new as of this month.

Robinson said the fountain is there as a result of a settlement agreement with the justice department made in 2003 regarding deficiencies to county buildings over the Federal Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. The settlement, he said, stipulates that accessible fountains be placed on each floor of every county building.

Robinson pointed out that the fountain wasn’t just for those who use a wheelchair, but for others with disabilities, such as difficulty bending; the hardware on the fountain is easier to use, he said, for those who have difficulty with grasping and twisting. “They’re not just for those who have problems walking,” he said.

http://www.registerstar.com/articles/2010/04/28/news/doc4bd7a5baec77c344395274.txt

[CreekDog]

1. are you saying they should've installed a non-accessible fountain on the 2nd floor?

:shrug:

[The Straight Story]

3. Yes, Yes I am

Actually, more like this guy from the article said:

“There should be a handicap fountain on the first floor,” Robinson added.

The water fountain in the courthouse’s main, first-floor lobby, is higher than the one on the second floor.

Robinson has been in the process of documenting the improvements made by the county in order to fulfill the settlement. “They have a new protocol where you take a picture and put something with a scaled dimension next to it so the viewer of the photo can see easily,” he said. “We’re doing that for every building.”

--Maybe, I dunno, start on the first floor if you are aiming to help people who have disabilities

[CreekDog]

4. there aren't people with disabilities on the 2nd floor?

are disabled people only in wheelchairs?

sheesh. :wtf:

[The Straight Story]

5. It goes like this:

If someone has issues with getting a drink from a fountain then they may well have issues climbing stairs. Start at the bottom and work your way up.

[CreekDog]

6. so you don't have a problem with the project, just the order things are getting done in?

i understand the sentiment...but it just reminds me of all the people that with 30 seconds of knowledge thought something I did was stupid, even though had they been working for a month on the same project would have ended up doing the same thing because there's more to it than you can find out in 30 seconds.

"Cursory Genius":

...separate yourselves from these low-level Others by resisting the temptation to assume it is all very simple and straightforward. It is not. Don't fool yourself. The problem is rarely the fact that they didn't have you there to think about it for two seconds. What comes to mind after a cursory glance is an illusion - your young brain baiting over-extension. Deny this impulse and the attention it may offer. Focus on real strategy. On truly understanding what you're talking about. Leave the bullshit attitude alone because it doesn't get you anything but alienation.

http://www.ryanholiday.net/archives/cursory_genius.phtml

[The Straight Story]

7. The project management, non-workers coming into the building for example

Start with the first level and work your way up.

IF you have an immediate need on the 2nd floor, ok. But if you are going to do all floors start with the one that ALL people use. You come in on the first floor, why not start there?

[CreekDog]

8. again...you don't want to argue the larger point do you?

:shrug:

[The Straight Story]

10. Which is?

Did they say there was a specific need on that floor?

----------------------
The state Office of Court Administration must approve each stage of the project, and response time has been longer than anticipated. For example, drawings sent to OCA Nov. 13 weren’t returned with comments to county officials until Jan. 20. Schematic approval, scheduled to be received from OCA in July, arrived in February of this year.

Robinson told the Register-Star in February that he’s been working with OCA on the courthouse since 2003.

With renovations to bring the existing building into compliance with the Federal Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, the complete project, including an addition, will cost $7.6 million total: $6.2 million for the addition and $1.4 million for renovation.
------------------------

I have managed a lot of projects in my time, if you are going to try to do something for the good of the many (in this case people with disabilities) why not start where the most would be affected, i.e. the floor where all people come in.

They are not doing this project for just one person, they are doing for the many - so why not start in the most logical place?

[CreekDog]

15. if you aren't going to read my post, please don't ask me what it says

:hi:

[Lance_Boyle]

9. Maybe the second floor didn't have a fountain at all to begin with?

That could take priority over replacing a functioning fountain on the first floor...

[slampoet]

13. Please see my below post because you are being ignorant.

[itsrobert]

2. Looks like they are putting them on each floor

"The settlement, he said, stipulates that accessible fountains be placed on each floor of every county building."

And also it looks like future plans are to provide handicapped access to all floors. Makes sense to do what you can do now to prepare for what's coming in the future. Installing water fountains are not always easy, but much more easy then retrofitting the entire building for floor access.

[dixiegrrrrl]

11. Wonder if the settlement mentioned easy access to 2nd floor....

for people with all/any mobility issues.
or was it just an issue over a water fountain?

[slampoet]

12. I take it you've never had to carry a person in a wheelchair up 23 stairs and then come back for

them several hours later after they are done with their business?

I also love this ability the naysayers have to see into the future and know that this floor will be non-accessible for the entire operational lifetime of this water fountain. Some what 150 years in the future?
I don't see the future like that, i guess i must be disabled in their eyes.



While at the same time the nay-sayers aren't seeing the potential benefits of bulk buys and standardization in making All the fountains accessible. That's pretty short sighted. Curb slants are great for bike traffic. Lots of accessible items have benefits. Plus EVERY single improvement you make for the disabled will also benefit the elderly. Are you planning on not living to be elderly die before you have a couple of physical limitations?


I'm getting pretty sick of seeing that 90% of the struggle that disabled people have is that the majority of the public simply cannot think about the needs of anyone but themselves. I used to think that everyone could see something from the point of view of someone else, but for a long time I've found that those that can't see an easy scenario where this benefits someone, are themselves Emotionally challenged, stunted, retarded, handicapped, crippled, deficient, unexceptional.

BTW - A message to the Morning Zoo population, I realize that this has been a 15 year running joke for you guys but, Do you realize that when you make fun of there being Braille letters on the Drive Through ATM, that I am laughing at the radio DJ who is so STUPID that he thinks people can be So Blind they can't even be Passengers in cars.

How could you be so blind?

[The Straight Story]

14. I understand the Braille reference quite well

And yeah, it is sad that people don't get that blind folks (and the amish as well I might add) can be in a car.

As I noted above, if you want to do the most good for the most people start with the main access point. Seems like simple logic.

The main access points for most buildings (unless you park underground and such) is the first floor.

[old mark]

16. I worked in a state mental hospital in which the 1st floor wards were shut down

to convert to "Classrooms" and the ward for older and disabled people was moved to the 2nd floor. There were 2 elevators which were captured in the event of fire- went to the first floor lobby and locked there-so all those people would have had to be taken down 2 flights of stairs to the lobby then outside and down more stairs to the grounds in event of a fire.
On night shift there was one nurse and one and 1/2 aides per ward (one aide split a shift between 2 wards).
There were never enough people in the entire hospital on second and third shifts to evacuate even one of the 3 buildings that housed patients in the event of a serious emergency.

m