IHOP introduces cheescake-filled pancake breakfast with twice the calories of KFC's Double Down.

[sinkingfeeling]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36828069/ns/business-consumer_news/

The Glendale, Calif.-based company did not provide nutritional information for Pancake Stackers by themselves. But the company said the regular combo meal — which includes Pancake Stackers with strawberries, two eggs, bacon and hash browns — runs 1,250 calories.

That meal is more than double KFC's Double Down chicken sandwich — which weighs in at 540 calories — and at least half the total calories many adults should eat all day. It also packs 2,750 milligrams of sodium. The Institute of Medicine recommends that adults not exceed 2,300 milligrams of sodium a day.

"It's yet again another dietary disaster brought to you by fast food," said Susan Levin, a dietitian for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which also has been critical of the Double Down.

"It's an opportunity to give our guests another reason to come into IHOP," said Carolyn O'Keefe, IHOP's senior vice president of marketing.

[qazplm]

1. you mean I get all the way up to 2500 calories a day?

Shoot, I can add a few more things in! :P

But in editing, I dont any problem so long as the buyer is aware of how many calories there are.

There are a ton of calories in a banana split but as a once in a blue moon fun splurge there is no harm in it.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. Who cares what IHOP or KFC serves.

Don't like these items then don't buy them. It's not like these off-the-wall creations are "cheap" or convenient.
There are healthier and cheaper options. You won;t change diets by taking food out of people's mouth.

In a society that allows people to poison the lungs of themselves and others around them...
this poutrage over "unhealthy specialty menu items" is difficult to endorse.
Excuse me, I feel a yawn coming on... :nopity:

FTR: I bought a frozen ga-station chmichanga last night, battered it, then deep fired it.
It tasted fabulous slathered in hot sauce and sour cream. Best appetizer ever.

[Bluebear]

15. "Poutrage" is soooo 2008, blue dog.

[Wednesdays]

56. Well, then don't expect ME to pay for your health bills

based on YOUR lousy food choices.

See how that works? :P

(All of the above is meant tongue-in-cheek, so don't get bent out of shape.) :hi:

[Mojeoux]

58. mmmmmmmmmmmmm High Fructose Corn Syrup addiction,

must gobble some soon, getting tweeky.

[LanternWaste]

65. I imagine many people have indeed bought

I imagine many people have indeed bought the full bill of Madison Avenue's goods without checking it or questioning it. And they yawn when people point to it. And imply that they themselves never bought it. And righteously proclaim, "j'accuse!" at those they believe did.

Meet the new cynic. Same as the old cynic.

[MrMickeysMom]

127. MMmmmmmmm deep fried bean wraps in sour cream....

fabulous.....

[paulsby]

3. as somebody who is currently consuming between 4-6 thousands cals a day

i say hmm....

[shedevil69taz]

5. I hear ya

right now I'm on night shift so I'm down to 3000 or so a day, course I had to cut my workouts down to two hour sessions a day too.

[paulsby]

6. as any bber (or strength athlete) will tell you, it is really difficult

to eat (entirely) "clean" and get that many calories.

peanut butter, olive oil, and stuff like that help boost the calories, but still

yesterday i had 1/2 lb of kalua pork and 2 lau lau's

that helped

[shedevil69taz]

9. Italian dressing

is one of my favorite things to use...the fat in it isn't that horrible, it flavors chicken breasts and tuna alike very well, and boots calorie intake. Its really hard eating how I would really like to while here in Iraq though.

[w8liftinglady]

31. yeah,but.....BTW-I have a GREAT protein pancake recipe

you can leave the sweet stuff out and use them like tortillas...hot or cold.I mix up about 7 batches at a time-they store well in the fridge


Ingredients...1 serving
1/2 cup cottage cheese
1/2 cup oats
3 eggwhites
1 whole egg
1 scoop anywhey Protein
1/2 cup blueberries
1 tsp. cinnamon


Directions
1.blend in blender,pour out on skillet like pancake batter.cook until done on both sides.

[RedCappedBandit]

156. Eating "clean" makes it much easier for me to 'bulk'.

Garbage foods such as this make me feel bloated and full without actually helping me meet my dietary goals.

That said, I'd eat it if I felt like it and wouldn't judge anyone else for doing so. If someone has a problem with an unhealthy food choice, they can just eat something else.

[tridim]

19. Wow! Any tips to keep that up without going crazy?

I once did a whole month of 3500-4000 cal/day and gave it up just because it was so difficult.

[paulsby]

30. finding calorically dense foods you really LIKE is a big part of it

it's really frigging hard at times, when i just do NOT want to eat and i have to

it's a different kind of discomfort from cutting weight (when you are so often hungry and tired)

one of the hard things too is getting enough water. the more you eat (and train), the more water you need. it's necessary for digestion , metabolic processes, etc. and correspondingly more calories requires correspondingly more water (imnsho)

which leads to urinating... a lot

driving around in a police car, gunbelt pressing on your bladder, when you have to pee is not fun

i think making shakes helps. a protein shake with natural peanut butter can really bump up calories.

nuts are also a great way to get fat, protein and fiber and you can just munch away

i was doing a large pizza for lunch a few days a week, but not too stoked on all that sodium and it makes me hella bloated

in brief, find calorically dense foods you like, and stock up
be disciplined

[tridim]

35. I still eat almonds every day for breakfast, and the water thing stuck too

I got so sick of eating fried rice, which was my staple at 700 calories a bowl. I do make homemade pizza about once a week, maybe I should just do that more often and eat a little more each sitting.

BTW I was just trying to gain weight (which I did), not muscle.

Thanks for the tips.

[shedevil69taz]

4. Its sad that in general American's have so little self

discipline that hardly anyone who eats that kind of stuff would balance it out with you know...exercise, or maybe just limit themselves to it just once a month. Nope self discipline has basically disapeared. Just look at how many people have huge credit card bills ran up on shit hardly anyone needs.

[qazplm]

8. actually

recent evidence suggests that Americans are eating better and losing weight while our "American" diet is being embraced more and more by other people who are getting fatter.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Even apostrophe use is out of control.

:shrug:

[Toasterlad]

33. That Made Me Laugh Out Loud

[Missy Vixen]

43. ROFL n/t

[flygal]

BWAAAA! Saw that too nt

[Missy Vixen]

40. The broad-brush generalizations made

about people you don't know and have no occasion to meet are unfortunate. Perhaps it would be best to exert a bit of self-discipline and refrain from commenting about it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

53. Brought to you by the good folks at I'm Better Than You, Inc.

:eyes:

[JanMichael]

71. Sadly we probably are.

:-)

[Scout]

55. you'll fit right in at the next fat bashing thread! n/t

[Skink]

7. Pass me that gallon jug of syrup please.

[RagAss]

22. ...and it comes with a free pack of smokes !

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Another OUTRAGE!

I'm mad! mad! MAD!

[Initech]

12. And that is why Lewis Black refers to IHOP as his health club.

[BurtWorm]

13. Maybe teabaggers will all develop type II diabetes or have strokes

in the next few years.

:think:

Now that they're having this cholesterol throwdown, might be a good time to go into the whitebread restaurant chain biz...

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. Yeah, because we ALL know that only teabaggers eat there... right?

What's a "whitebread restaurant"?

[OnyxCollie]

37. Cracker Barrel?

:shrug:

[BurtWorm]

63. Yeah, we all do.

Weren't you at the meeting?

:wtf:

[The Straight Story]

14. Good for them. Choice is something I think all progressives value (nt)

[harun]

16. +1

[arcadian]

75. You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[The Straight Story]

140. No, I am not. You don't like choice or people having choice? Really?

I don't get that concept - please explain it to me.

[Phoonzang]

17. I prefer their Omlettes. That's just too much...sweet.

I kind of hate sweet. Now grease and cheese...that's my problem.

[old mark]

18. At one time,I was on about1100 calories a DAY...the pancakes sound good, though...

especially with strawberries.
Can't take the carbs, though.
( But occasionally, I have to have a banana split.)

mark

[druidity33]

20. yeah but it's vegetarian!

without the bacon at least...

:)

[RagAss]

21. I'm all for it.

[petronius]

23. Only 1,250 calories? That sounds kind of moderate for a fast-food headliner

Guess that just shows how high the bar has been raised.

This sounds pretty tasty to me - better than the KFC thing, anyway - and I'd gladly eat it as a treat or before a big exertion...

[Duer 157099]

24. This thread is useless without...

oh, there it is

[MrMickeysMom]

27. I duped that pix

now I wish to throw up... uuuhhh

[PlanetBev]

108. Hate to admit it, but

I think I could challenge those pancakes with a big cup of coffee...

[MrMickeysMom]

25. Burp...

Just spread it on my thighs, why don't you?

[OnyxCollie]

38. Slap a Double Down between those pancakes.

That's good eatin'.

[BuddhaGirl]

59. now THAT is what *unhealthy* looks like

it looks disgusting!

[spooky3]

26. A funny story about American breakfasts

Years ago I hosted some French college students and asked them what they liked most about visiting the US. Almost every one of them said they loved American breakfasts, such as this IHOP one. This, from citizens of a culture with the best food in the world...but I can understand it. I would love to eat that breakfast too but can't afford the calories. Maybe I can get a friend to go with me and split one so I'm not tempted to eat it all.

(by the way, I did explain to them that most Americans ate a bowl of cereal, or toast, etc.--not a stack of pancakes every day!)

[cali]

28. I hate ersatz food like ihop

I want my pancakes with real maple syrup, fresh blueberries and made with King Arthur flour. I don't indulge often, but when I do, I want the good stuff.

[SwampG8r]

96. i have the king arthur flour book of baking

here somewhere
damn fine biscuits

[spooky3]

131. agreed that "real" is better - I have real maple at home. But

the main thing is I can't recall the last time I went to IHOP -- too many calories.

[Cali_Democrat]

32. I had the double down recently

I just had to try it. It was okay.

But it's not nearly as bad as burgers from places like Carl's Jr. (or Hardees depending on where you live).

IHOP has always had crazy breakfasts.

[MadBadger]

34. My Favorite Food and My Favorite Breakfast food

Sign me up

[Change Happens]

36. I don't eat bacon, how many caloroies do I save in the double down at KFC?

[Change Happens]

39. Double Down at KFC is coming with a grilled chicken version, how many less calories is that?

Surprisingly, the grilled meat at KFC is just as good!

[MadBadger]

70. Only 80 less calories

[LongTomH]

41. Will they call it: "The Code-Blue Plate Special?"

Just asking!:rofl:

[Shell Beau]

42. Eh, I prefer Waffle House to IHOP.

The waffles are yum yum yummy!

[awoke_in_2003]

47. and waffle house...

has the best scrambled eggs

[Shell Beau]

48. Oh yeah, and add cheese.

Yummy!!!

[awoke_in_2003]

49. +1000

:hi:

[Shell Beau]

61. I always get their All-Star breakfast just to have a taste

of almost everything!! I always leave feeling disgusted with myself, but DAMN it is good!!!

:hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

68. Have you ever been to a waffle house

at 2AM (after the bars close). It can be quite entertaining :)

[Shell Beau]

69. That's the best time to go!!!

[XOKCowboy]

173. The travelin' man's dream breakfast stop...

Especially if you travel in the south. One in every city. Quick, friendly and a good breakfast. I'm not a calorie counter I just want something to get me through till dinner when I'm driving. Big Waffle House fan.

[fishwax]

44. sounds disgusting

but that's because I don't care for cheesecake. :)

[titoresque]

51. sounds yummy

but that's because I love cheesecake! :hi:

I think I would have this as a dessert though instead of breakfast....and I would share it. ;)

[fishwax]

52. good point -- it would be a good item to share

as long as all parties like cheesecake :)

[Imajika]

45. Looks yummy...

I will have to remember to give this a try.

[CrawlingChaos]

46. No worse than a piece of cheesecake

When you think about it. The pancakes would be less calorie-dense than the traditional graham cracker crust. The cheesecake filling is the deadliest part, and it looks like there might be considerably less of it than there would be in a hefty slice of cheesecake.

My wild guess would be about 800 calories for the whole thing, and I suspect most people couldn't finish it.

It's junk, but it doesn't seem newsworthy to me.

The same concept, made with quality ingredients, in a reasonable serving size, with a steaming mug of fresh coffee... I would consider it worth doing an extra-long workout for that.

[cliffordu]

50. Perfect for long distance bicycle touring.

two a day is just about right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Ah yes, let's keep pushing this new drug

and to those who push the but, but, self discipline... rah, rah, rah...

Evidence now is there that this much fat, and sugars are actually well, as addictive as cocaine.

It also speaks to the kind of afluenza we live under.

[BuddhaGirl]

60. +1

n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

67. How about we all be grown-ups and worry about our own bodies and business?

Instead of worrying endlessly about what everyone else chooses to eat, ingest, smoke, snort, etc.

[Luminous Animal]

74. Because we have nearly zero opportunity to combat the pushers.

These pushers spend billions of dollars a year to get you hooked on their poison. Most insidiously, they spend billions to get children hooked on their poison.

And you know why they spend billion? Because it works. Not only have they managed to sell unhealthy manufactured products as "food", they've managed to concoct just the right combo of fat, sugar, and salt in this "food" to take advantage of evolutionary survival triggers to subconsciously lead us to eat more; that is, science as accomplished what the "food" manufacturers have long sought - breaking the calorie barrier.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. Right. Well, last time I checked my mouth was still attached to my head.

And I'm perfectly capable of deciding what to put into it and what not to- and believe me, I'm no more immune to addiction or will-powerful than anyone else. I walked away from a lot of unhealthy things, after a good amount of indulging in them.

I'm no saint; I'm just someone who puts a great deal of stock in my own capacity to make my own decisions, thank you very much. And I'm not remotely interested in making those decisions for others.

Empower people to make better choices, great. Improve access to locally grown, organic, healthy food, even better.

But tell people what to eat? How fucking presumptuous.

I really don't understand where the energy and motivation comes from for so many on the so-called 'left' to play self-appointed food, sex, entertainment, morality, etc. police. Jesus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Actually you might be genetically blessed

we have also found a genetic component to addiction. But not all are genetically blessed. and it is far less about WILL than you believe. This puritan way of thinking is actually quite bunk... and no, I don't believe the pushers should be left alone. They should be regulated, or at the very least socially shamed.

Don't expect this to happen in the US... the land of the "free" and the "brave," but that is another story.

Free to eat what they put in front of you, and so brave well, that is another story.

But mark my words, the food industry WILL be heavily regulated in other places... don't fret, their populations will also be healthier, and once we figure this national security risk, as in for real, we will too.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. No. I am definitely NOT "genetically blessed" when it comes to addiction.

That's all you need to know.

For your information, most addicts- recovered, recovering- DON'T believe that more "regulation" is the answer. I have yet to meet too many sober alcoholics; and I'm talking 12 steppers, Rational Recovery types, Secular Sobriety, and "I did it on my own"'s- who honestly think prohibition would have been any sort of a solution for them, or even kept them out of trouble.

When it comes to food, like I said- best things I can think of are empowering people to make better choices, make fresh, locally grown organic produce more accessible, offer more 'fast' food choices that aren't crap---

...Which can be also a solid business opportunity, IMHO... every Fresh Choice/Sweet Tomatoes I've ever been in has looked like it does gangbusters business.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. So you are telling me that we cannot tell restuarant

and food producers to stop using certain oils, and corn syrup... okie dokie, or for that matter GMOs>

Whatever...

We will, after we figure out that these things are BAD for national security reasons. And transfats, one of the major culprits, do NOT exist in nature...

[Warren DeMontague]

90. I'm saying that it's legitimate to suggest that people should know what is in their food.

I have no problem with restaurant owners and food producers needing to disclose what they use, fat content, etc. I also have no problem with requiring GMOs to be labeled as such.

But then, let people decide. Saying "we" have the right to say what can be in food or not-- who the fuck is "we"? The people who think meat eating should be illegal? The people who think God forbids Pork, or Meat on Friday? The people who think refined sugar is the antichrist?

People can come up with all kinds of half-assed assertions about just about anything-- like how, say, tv shows about dogs are 'bad' for people (and, hence, a national security crisis) ... or video games... or gambling... or consenting adult porn... (none of which 'exist in nature', except that human beings -and by extension- everything we do- "exists in nature", too) and use that as a justification for telling others how to live their lives.



I say, people need to be able to make up their own damn minds. About what they eat, about a lot of things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Let me try to explain somethign to you

that it seems you are incapable of understading

We have a rise of AUTO IMMUNE disease, such as Celiacs, Lupus and diabetes. This is the last 30 years

This has coincided with GMOs, which have pieces of oh I don't know frog DNA, or other insect DNA in them, not the traditional one type of wheat breeding with another.

We also have this happened at the same time we have been subsidizing corn to the point that we have killed our SUGAR industry, and it looks like CORN Syrup, cheap as hell, has nasty effects on the human body, including things like lack of hunger control and obesity

Oh and let's not start on trans-fats, again they do not exist in nature.

We are talking of the law of unintended consequences. Perhaps we should reintroduce all kinds of nasty stuff into the air, like oh lead in gasoline...

What you are suggesting, with all due respect, is the libertarian view that you are free to do what you want... care to go to a store and start readying labels?

And again, what do you do with food deserts or the cheap food policy?

Don't worry this will change, once we realize that even more of our kids, right now it is at 75%, cannot join the armed forces... once it reaches a higher level, you will see changes lickety split, because it is NOW a national security issue. Oh and they will not ask you, but it will happen. And it will happen because well, we need soldiers...

[Warren DeMontague]

101. "that it seems you are incapable of understading" ....Yeah, I'm a real idiot.

What you are suggesting, with all due respect, is the libertarian view that you are free to do what you want...

Yes. That is EXACTLY what I am suggesting, and the fact that a small, dedicated crowd here likes to wave the word "libertarian" around like it's dog doo on a stick, doesn't phase me in the fucking least.

Trans Fats- let's see- once we mandated labeling them, along with the information filtering out to the public (even the 'brainwashed' ones, the ones so addled by advertising dollars that they've, apparently, lost the ability to make their own decisions) trans fats made a hasty retreat from most foods. Not all of 'em, to be sure, but they're sure as shit not as prevalent as they used to be.

And again, what do you do with food deserts or the cheap food policy?

What, indeed? I don't know. What does banning pancakes at IHOP- or even bleating about them on the internet and yelling at people who may choose to consume them- do with food deserts or cheap food policy, either?

[Luminous Animal]

111. Trans fat. Oh let's forget about the decades that oleo and margerine

were legally labeled as healthy. Yes, it took decades of independent scientific studies, mostly originating in Europe, and U.S. food activist to finally allow the truth to filter out to the U.S. public. Decades. In the meantime, the trans fat industry owned the U.S, regulatory apparatus and allowed the trans fat industry to run rough shod over the public's right to know and the public suffered in ignorance and bought billions of dollars of the product thinking that they were doing the right thing for their health because of the "food" industry's propaganda. You could go on Free Republic today and advocate for a ban on trans fat and the majority of their members would proudly defend their right to eat it.

Even yet, the trans fat fight is not over. Some municipalities ban them outright but they are still pervasive in many processed "food" products with no warning whatsoever. So, even though science (some scientist label it poison) confirms the dangers or trans fat and savvy food eaters and communities avoid it, it is readily available.

Michael Pollan labels your approach to food regulation as nutritionism. That is, the public is whipped, by corporate advertising, from one concept of what is healthy to another concept of what is healthy within a span of months to a few years, until we've lost all concept of what is food. Due to the tyranny of the corporate "food" industry, food is now allowed to be marketed as medicine... "heart healthy", "antidioxidants", etc., with no

So, we (finally) reject trans fat but are primed to accept laboratory engineered substitutes because the "food" industry is busily manufacturing substitutes for any currently discredited, through decades of citizen activism, food. All it takes is a molecule here, a molecule there.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. "it took decades of independent scientific studies, mostly originating in Europe,"

Let's see those links.

As far as I can tell, Europe's response time on trans fats mirrored that of the US, or at best was ahead of us by at most 3-4 years.

Hardly surprising, given who was in charge over here at the time.

[Luminous Animal]

116. I never said that Europe was better than us, governmentwise...

in responding the the health threat of trans fat. I only said that they were ahead of us in independent studies.


Nice try.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. I'm waiting for a link on those independent studies.

That we (and, apparently, Europe) were deliberately ignoring.

Seriously. Link.


You also said, and I quote:

allow the truth to filter out to the U.S. public. Decades. In the meantime, the trans fat industry owned the U.S, regulatory apparatus and allowed the trans fat industry to run rough shod over the public's right to know

Okay. So, you didn't really just mean the US, then. You meant Europe, too, suffered from the public's "right to know" being "run rough shod" over. Because Europe, as you have acknowledged, didn't act on this really any sooner than we did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. You can start by reading the Journal Nature

or maybe not.

Here is the problem... you ARE a libertarian. You BELIEVE in freedom, problem is you are not free. You are not free to chose your own food... because what goes into that food is being decided by Corporations

Here is a concept that might escape you. While you fear the state... the nanny state, you seem to have embraced the values of the corporate state, who have sold to you a bill of goods, and you think you are free.

I am far from being that delusional...

[Warren DeMontague]

143. I'm still waiting for a link.

Am I supposed to wade through 30 years of the "Journal Nature" to prove YOUR point about pancakes?

"Here is the problem... you ARE a libertarian." Yeah! I am. A small-l one, to be sure. A left-libertarian. Abso-fucking-lutely. Now, your next move is to try to conflate that with the club for growth or the big-L Libertarian Party. Go for it.

Actually, HERE is the problem: You are flinging all kinds of name calling and invective at me, accusing me of being opposed to --what, organized labor?--- because I won't join you in, yes, poutrage over a STACK OF PANCAKES.

Not that I need to prove my credentials to you, but I'm pretty far to the left when it comes to helping the people you've decided I don't give a shit about. You will not find a stronger supporter of a livable minimum wage, a Single Payer Health Care system, or the right of every worker to organize and collectively bargain than me.

Yet since I'm not interested in telling anyone what not to eat; I actually do believe people -everyone- can and do make their own choices about things- I 'don't give a shit about anyone but myself' :eyes:

Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. You are free to do your own work

otherwise it would be a commie thing limiting on your freedom and damn it we cannot have that kind of thing going on now, can we?

And as I already told you, UNLESS you plant your own plants, and raise your own farm animals and process them, and have your own water supply... no you are not. Somebody in a corporate room is making many of those decisions for you.

YOU are being told what to eat. I guess it is ok when corporations do it... private property and all that crap that is part of the libertarian creed.

Now I will give you this, you do have the ILLUSION of freedom, but illusion is not the same thing as reality.

[Warren DeMontague]

149. See, I think you don't have them, or can't find them.

It's clear that your earlier assertions about the "US Food industry and regulatory agencies silencing the studies" must not be true, because Europe was on the same page.

Now, you can't find the links to the studies you tossed out a reference too, so you're backpedaling.

Let me know if you dig them up. Really.



As for the illusion of freedom- I'm not going to eat the fucking cheesecake pancake stack. Like I said, I don't even like REGULAR pancakes. But I'm not going to tell anyone else they can't eat them. Because I'm an enemy of freedom, right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. Nah I won't do the work for you

I mean it violates the libertarian creed.

As to this about pancakes this is the part you keep missing. This is bigger than just pancakes, we go back to corporate board rooms.

Now if you believe it is about just pancakes, enjoy the illusion.

[Warren DeMontague]

157. Okay. So basically you just made a bunch of stuff up.

But I grant you, that thing about "corporate board rooms" is scary. Especially in the context of scary pancakes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. Nah I did not,

and I also gave you ONE SOURCE in this thread for you to START your own research.

Take it or leave it.

But given you are a libertarian, that would be very communistic from me to give you more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. Then yuo are a LEFT WING liberatarian

not more to say. Regulations are bad for libertarians, and problem is libertarians most of the time don't know the meaning of the world liberty either.

By the way, you ain't free. Unless you plant and raise all your food, decisions on what you eat and what you drink are being made mostly in corporate board rooms. That includes what they put in the water, the rice, et al.

How 'bout that "freedom?"

[Warren DeMontague]

148. It's "left wing libertarian", and hell yeah I am. You say that like it's a bad thing.

It's not.

As for the decisions being mostly made in corporate board rooms... OH NOOOOOOOES! Well, somehow or other between 10-15 years or so ago, I must have had some corporate boardroom dudes decide to switch the levers on my personal hyp-mo-tron, because I could have sworn I made lifestyle decisions around my diet and other choices, cutting out things like red meat, fried food, lots of processed food, cutting out HFCS, getting more exercise, etc.

Dropped around 40 lbs. Feel great.

Thanks for making those decisions for me, Corporate Overlords! :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

154. Yes libertarina thinking is the bane of the Republic

so yes, it is bad. And they have been since the beginning of the Republic...

A heaven of this is ... Somalia...

So since you love that, why do you keep using all them roads, et al?

[Warren DeMontague]

158. Yep. That didn't take long, did it?

I guess your understanding of the phrase "left libertarian" runs about as deep as your understanding of that "silly shit, science".

Or, maybe you're just so incensed by the pancakes, you're not thinking straight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

164. Ah this is not about pancakes

and as to the bane of the republic, well it is... but knowledge of US history is not the strong point of Americans, not just Libertarians.

[Warren DeMontague]

110. You like science. Okay, Find me a scientific study linking lupus to GMOs.

I mean, it may not be as clear and indisputable a correlation as the one between global warming and pirates, but... let's see some data.

[nadinbrzezinski]

134. It is going up? YES

And Diabetes is sky rocketing.

As well as Celiacs. Some of the latter can be accounted with POOR medical education... but not all of it.

Care to tell me WHY this is happening?

And as I said, it will change. lickety split, and they won't ask you... once they realize just how much of a NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT this is.

Problem is C&H will have a hell of a time getting them sugar canes going again. Mostly that prime land is now housing.

[Warren DeMontague]

144. That wasn't the question. I wanted to see the study linking lupus to GMOs.

I'll wait.

Now, the vast majority of GMOs which people object to haven't been in widespread use for '30 years', more like 10. Of course, humans have been cross-breeding crops and otherwise 'genetically altering' them for millennia, but still.

Is the increase in diabetes at least partially related to modern diets and lifestyles?, fo sho'. But that wasn't what you asserted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. You can do your own work

otherwise that woudl be socialistic and shit and limiting on your freedoms

[Warren DeMontague]

155. Robble Robble Robble.

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. So you expect others to do the research for you?

what happened to that rugged individualism of yours?

[Warren DeMontague]

167. Why should I waste my time looking for something that isn't there? This is YOUR post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8233304&mesg_id=8236364

Yes, it took decades of independent scientific studies, mostly originating in Europe, and U.S. food activist to finally allow the truth to filter out to the U.S. public. Decades. In the meantime, the trans fat industry owned the U.S, regulatory apparatus and allowed the trans fat industry to run rough shod over the public's right to know and the public suffered in ignorance and bought billions of dollars of the product thinking that they were doing the right thing for their health because of the "food" industry's propaganda.

You assert that 'decades of independent scientific studies' 'mostly originating in Europe' were ignored by the "US regulatory apparatus" (not mentioning that these studies were ignored by the European regulatory apparatus, too.) This is your assertion, and the fact of the matter is, the studies I suspect you saw didn't take place until after 2000. If they did, there's NO evidence that there was a long-term conspiracy particular to the US or the "US regulatory apparatus" to keep people from finding out about trans fats.

Finally, once labeling of trans fats WAS mandated, they rapidly disappeared from many foods. Hurrah.

But none of this matters, since you're obviously going to spend the rest of your time in this thread chewing through your straps over the term "libertarian", which you have repeatedly demonstrated you don't understand.

[nadinbrzezinski]

170. Alas that is not my post but that is ok

And it is easy to lose track of who posted what...

My handle is nadinbrzezinski

The person who posted that is luminous Animal

I gave you a direct source to START your reserach A BOOK...

I will even repeat the title once more, to see if you can keep us straight.

Kessler, the End of Overeating.

Hell I will even be communistic and give you a link to it on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/End-Overeating-Insatiable-American-Appetite/dp/1605297852

Now go on and keep thinking whatever you want to think, and I still believe (like many others through US History) that libertarian thought is just an illusion of freedom.

[Luminous Animal]

89. I'm all for harm reduction.

I a firm believer in decriminalization of all drugs. I am also against corporations marketing those drugs. I don't want to see "Hardehar Heroin" or "Snap Pop Crackle Crack" advertised for breakfast.

[Luminous Animal]

81. How do you empower people?

With what? How do you combat billions in advertising? Would you support a government dollar for dollar campaign for healthful foods?

How, in even vague terms, do you intend to battle the "food" industry on a level playing field? How do you protect children, with their weak decision making capabilities from being brainwashed; day in, day out; hour after hour... in school, at home, on the street?

You are like the torture victim that didn't crack that sneers at one who did. Billions are invested in advertising because it works. Some "superior" people (like you, apparently) are immune to the brainwashing but the vast majority are not. There must be some solution outside of being a rock or an island, to the onslaught, that of which science has proven effective, against what harms us.

It took about 70 years from the moment that scientist and activists warned about the dangers of lead before a critical mass of an educated populace forced our government to do something about it. During which, the lead industry went balls out convincing consumers (i.e., human beings subject to the effects of their poison) that white paint was the next best thing to white bread. The U.S. lagged decades behind most of the rest of the well-educated world resulting in lead-laden environment that still wrecks havoc on the intellectual health of our children. No doubt, when the dangers of lead started seeping into the consciousness of the wider population, there were people like you who bravely claimed that they had the capacity to make their own decisions and damn the health and welfare of anyone else who wasn't as smart, or as mentally resilient, or as middle class, or had access to information.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. Didn't take long for you to start flogging the red herrings, did it?

You empower people to make better choices by giving them more to choose from. And then, yes, let them figure it out. Even knowing some times people won't make the decision YOU want them to.

Lead? You're comparing a cheesecake pancake to lead? Give me a fucking break.

There should be full disclosure with food, and there is- after all, we know how many calories are in this IHOP thing, don't we? That's not the same thing as having invisible lead in your pipes. In your paint. In your kids' toys.

You bleat about how I think I'm 'superior' when the entire gist of your argument is that people are mindless fucking drones who are "helpless" against the controlling influences of brainwashing, etc. So you need to be in charge of their diets, of all things. And *I've* got a superiority complex?

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Ok how do you emopwer people who live in food deserts?

And exactly how do you change the national cheap food policy?

And yes marketing is that damn powerful, again, reams upon reams of research.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. The people who live in food deserts have my sympathy. I'm totally serious.

That is a good question, and a worthy thing to think about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. The problem is that sympathy don't help them

It woudl start to help them if we replaced oh I don't know, Corn Syrup for SUGAR.

Also we need to develop a NEW NATIONAL food policy.

[Warren DeMontague]

102. I'm more interested in knowing what is really in the food

than I am in telling people what they can or can't eat. I've done a fine job of avoiding HFCS for the past decade, but I suppose that makes me an "elitist"

...or a "libertarian"

..or was it an idiot?

It gets so confusing, what with all the nasty names some people start to fling at your head, once you say something controversial like "people should be free to make up their own minds about stuff"

:shrug:

[Luminous Animal]

114. I'm going with educated elite with zero responsibility for your fellow human beings.

Not once has any social, economic, civil right have advanced without collective action. It wasn't enough for one textile worker to escape a 19th century sweatshop and start their own business in California. It took thousands of workers, looking out for each other in order to protect all workers, to shut down the factories and then petition their government to federalize what they had won locally.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. All of which has absolutely zip diddly shit to do with pancakes.

But go ahead, attempt to insult me, toss out red herrings, wring your hands, moan in frustration...

I'm bettin', tomorrow, the sun will still rise, the birds will still sing, and people are still gonna eat the fucking pancakes.

[Luminous Animal]

123. Indeed. This discussion is only about pancakes.

All hail the holy pancake because the mean foodies are going to take them away. (And Obama is a socialist, too!)

I am looking forward to seeing you march on the street to the non-existent threat to your pancakes. Perhaps you can call your movement "The Syrup Party".

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Would you like some tea with that?

:-)

[Warren DeMontague]

159. Yes. Anyone who isn't outraged by cheesecake filled pancakes is a union-buster.

Ever stop to listen to your own gibberish?

[Warren DeMontague]

119. I do like "elite", though.

"elite"! "elite!" Can you say it in that nasty, twangy way that Sarah Palin sez it?





Hey--- I like arugula, and lattes, too!

[Luminous Animal]

125. You are right. There is no such thing as an elite in the U.S, of A.

We are all exactly the same. My daughter has the same opportunity to a tens of thousands of dollars of a private education as any President's daughter. Each and every one of us can earn $100,000 or more. It is just a matter of knowing enough. (Who needs bus drivers or garbage collectors, or store clerks or vegetable pickers, or teachers, or nurses? We'll do it ourselves! In our spare time!)

Yes, to assume that the average person, between work and family and eking out some fun, in the U.S., has enough time to educate themselves in face of the onslaught of misinformation that comes from the "food" advertisers (and sanctioned by our bought off representatives), is an elitist position.

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. Or having the economic ability to buy this stuff

which escapes those at the lowest rungs of the economy, who also don't have the time to read those labels

You think they are lazy... well join Governor Berkeley of the Virginia Plantation in your views of the poor.

[Warren DeMontague]

151. Again, I don't want to ban Pancakes, so I'm a republican who hates the poor.

And you make unrelated shit up to back up a failing argument, just like the Pope.... so obviously you work for the Vatican.

[nadinbrzezinski]

160. If you think you are a Republican no skin off my knee

and I won't do the work for you.

I also gave you ONE source for you to start doing some research... I won't do it twice.

And the attitude vis a vis the poor goes back to the Virginia Plantation. It's not you... it is in the DNA of the country.

[Warren DeMontague]

162. You can call me all the names you want, at least I have better things to do than obsess over what

other people choose to eat.

Look around- if you took a poll in this thread, the dominant attitude is "Don't like it? Don't eat it". I guess all those people are GOP shills, union-hating plantation owners, or some other such bullshit.

Jesus christ. Take a breath and get a fucking grip.

[nadinbrzezinski]

165. You can take a grip too

and get a clue while at it.

Perhaps you can go to the store where they sell them. Here is a huge one... what is in your food is decided by OTHER people... and slowly again, this is not about pancakes.

[Warren DeMontague]

168. "this is not about pancakes. "

...sure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

171. IN your mind you can distinguish what the term

symptom is?

By the way if you wish to go eat this, be my guest, all protestations aside that you will not.

But these pancakes are... a symptom of the cheap food policy we have... as well as the KFC double down and a few other food products.

I am sure in your extensive readying of US History, you realize that at one time the double down woudl be prohibitive in cost... and corn would be rather expensive too.

You understand what POLICY means? Oh wait, that is a big nanny state (which has been bought and paid for by many in the private sector)

By the way your pictures are just funny, if stupid.

[Warren DeMontague]

176. I said elsewhere, I can't even stand *regular* pancakes.

You keep saying "this isn't about pancakes"... yeah, I know, you want the thread to be about organized labor, or plantation owners, or the GOP.

Clearly you've got an axe to grind, but frankly you're all over the map, and once the word "libertarian" came into it, it would seem you stopped being able to even type complete sentences, through the rage fog.

Speaking of which, I predicted it wouldn't take long for the conflation of left-libertarianism with the big-L Libertarian party, Club For Growth philosophy, etc. By my estimation, it was maybe one or two more posts;

"why do you keep using all them roads, et al"

...which means you're quick on the trigger, even for around here.

The next step is to accuse me of having a blow-up Ayn Rand doll. C'mon, you know you want to.


To summarize. Yes, it IS about pancakes. If you don't like them, don't eat them. 'Nite.

[nadinbrzezinski]

177. WRONG, it is about our cheap food policy

google it up...

[Luminous Animal]

99. Invisible lead? People chose to use lead paint. They chose to buy lead gas.

And this, despite the well known dangers of lead. It wasn't invisible, it was touted as a benefit right on the package. It became an invisible toxin AFTER it was banned because of the power of the lead industry and the weakness of our government and regulatory agencies. Similarly, toxic food, like sugar laden breakfast cereals our touted as healthy foods.

And it is not just one cheesecake pancake, it is the millions of products that are sold as "food" that clearly are not.

Apparently, you are superior, because you are immune to the affects of advertising; and clearly the vast majority of U.S. citizens do not have your fortitude because, if they did, the "food" industry would not throw away billions of dollars a year. They do, after all, employ a multitude of scientists and an even larger multitude of marketers to mold the consciousness of the average consumer to ingest substances that are, on an evolutionary basis, contrary to health. Many more, are convinced based on economics alone.

Your proposal for empowering people by giving them more to choose from is laughable given the fact that real foods, healthy foods, (even conventionally grown) cost twice as much or more, calorie for calorie, as manufactured "food".

I don't want to be in charge of people's diets. I want the pushers out of the food business because what they are pushing is not food. I want HFCS to be taxed on a similar level that cigarettes and alcohol is taxed. I want a cessation of subsidies to the corn & soy industries. I want any product that contains ingredients that the average person cannot recognize as food, to be labeled imitation food.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. Okay. You Win. I guess I am superior.

Your proposal for empowering people by giving them more to choose from is laughable given the fact that real foods, healthy foods, (even conventionally grown) cost twice as much or more, calorie for calorie, as manufactured "food".

...How do you know that's not what I mean, when I say more choices? I think it would be GREAT if 'real foods, healthy foods' were cheaper and more accessible. Maybe the difference is that, despite my 'superiority', I'm not sitting here with a paper crown on my head, enjoying some sort of delusion that as Emperor of the Galaxy I can hack away on my keyboard and re-order the universe the way I would like it. Oh, were it only so. Because I really am that superior. Really.

I want HFCS to be taxed on a similar level that cigarettes and alcohol is taxed.

Earl Butts is dead, AFAIK, so you can't take the issue up with him, but I think there's a case to be made for that argument.

I want a cessation of subsidies to the corn & soy industries.

Good luck selling that one, politically. I mean, really. Good luck.

I want any product that contains ingredients that the average person cannot recognize as food, to be labeled imitation food.

I think you're going to have trouble with the details on that one.


Anyway, I am sorry that a stack of pancakes can make you so mad. Really, I am.

[Luminous Animal]

112. You advocate empowerment but you've given not one,nada, zilch, nil to achieve it.

Taxing is out of the question. Ceasing subsidies is out of the question. Honest labeling for real food is out of the question.

You've got nothing.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. I didn't say taxing was out of the question.

I said it sounds like a reasonable idea.

Honest labeling for food? Sounds great. I'm all for it. Your 'proposal', if you can call it that, went something like this: "I want any product that contains ingredients that the average person cannot recognize as food, to be labeled imitation food.".

Fine. Define 'average person'. Define 'food'. Is Sodium Chloride 'food', or an 'artificial chemical additive'? Sounds to me like you're just going to end up with a gazillion stickers that say "imitation food". Okay, great.

But I don't think you're going to be any closer to stopping folks from eating those pancakes that you seem so determined to forbid protect them from eating.

[Luminous Animal]

120. Salt is food. Salt is an ingredient that people can recognize.

In fact, in the U.S., in the late 1800, any processed food that contained ingredients that could not be readily recognized or accessed by the home cook were required to add the label "imitation". Year after year the "food" manufacturing industry fought against and won to remove the imitation label; so, now we are eating laboratory manufactured products, that unless we are a "food" scientist, we've no clue.

So, I will amend my statement... if a "food" product contains ingredients that cannot be accessed without manipulation within a "food" laboratory, then it must be labeled as imitation food.

[Warren DeMontague]

122. Seems you'd still need to define manipulation--- and laboratory.

Like I said, I'm all for truth in labeling, for sure. Personally, I like foods that don't need any labels. Like carrots.

[Luminous Animal]

126. Nope. I don't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Yeah there is this thing called the scientific method

I am sure you've heard of it?

So how about we actually listen to this silly shit called SCIENCE... perhaps there is something to it, especially research after research is finding this to be the case. Or would you rather ingest the white stuff? I mean at least it is calorie free.

Oh and no, I do not mean this with any sarcasm whatsoever.

For the record the pushers have come across this purely by accident, but I personally like crack food as much as I like crack tobacco. Both are bad for you.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. What?

That post is like word salad. Hey, I do like salad.

If you've got science to talk about, you know, that "silly shit"... why don't you post a link and try to be a little clearer, so I know exactly what "science" it is you're referring to?

Surely someone as science-minded as you knows that there have been all sorts of dubious studies floated in recent decades, to further all sorts of 'silly' agendas. Like the one pushed by the religious right that said looking at images of naked people creates something called 'erotoxins' in the brain; so better regulate pictures of adults fucking since porn is obviously JUST LIKE CRACK!

So, seriously. I'd like to listen to your science. I'm all ears. Post links to the studies it sounds like you're trying to reference. Please.


For the record, I don't necessarily think addictive things should be illegal, either. I had a close relative die of lung cancer from cigarettes; yet outlawing them (much less... what? Refined sugar?) would be a giant waste of time and, in the end, counter-productive.

Adults need to be free to make their own choices. Even bad ones.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. Start with Kessler's the End of Overeating

or perhaps not, Might burst a bubble or two.
Why I suggest the book? Nice summary of leading edge science... on the subject.

of course there are the more recent articles on fat and it's addictive effects, but I am sure at this point your very self reliant ass can go ahead and use the very socialistic interwebs, to google this up, or perhaps use BING.

[Warren DeMontague]

153. You made the assertion. If you really understood anything about the science you're flogging

you would be able to post a link.

As it is, you're the one who wants to justify your jihad against a stack of flapjacks. So do it. You're not even articulating a coherent argument in those posts, much less backing it up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

166. YOU see the tittle of the book

go to the bookstore and chiefly read it.

And this is NOT JUST ABOUT PANCAKES. You want it to be so.

[Warren DeMontague]

169. I hope you're ready to lecture the rest of the "libertarians" in this thread, too.

Clearly, we elitists all need some re-educating, since we're operating under the illusion that people can and should decide for themselves what to eat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. It is a strain in the US body politic

and fortunately it has never become a dominant political party....

Or that would be more than just dangerous.

But is is part of the body politic, going back to the Virginia Plantation... it is an echo of US History and politics.

[NeedleCast]

57. Yum!

So, it's about half your daily calorie intake in one meal. What's the big deal with a little indulgence from time to time?

I'll have mine with a large Coke please!

[laughingliberal]

62. I'm just not sure why I'm supposed to care about what IHOP is serving.

I think I've eaten at an IHOP twice in the past 12 years. I don't see it as a significant impact.

[Bluebear]

64. OK, alright already! I will tell them to hold the bacon. nt

[flvegan]

66. Garbage "food"

[TreasonousBastard]

72. Well, my mama always said to have a good breakfast to start the day...

pancakes, eggs, bacon, hash browns, cheesecake, strawberries, whipped cream...

The cheesecake's a little odd, but otherwise doesn't sound much different than, well, breakfast.

(Just what the fuck do the self-righteous food snobs complaining about this have for their own breakfasts?)

[FightingBobsghost]

73. Damn!

Pancakes AND cheesecake?!
I'm in LOVE!

[awoke_in_2003]

97. Me too...

must resist the urge :)

[Warren DeMontague]

77. YOU WILL EAT WHAT WE SAY YOU CAN EAT

[Luminous Animal]

83. And I suppose you advocate for lead gas and lead paint.

After all, the use of lead in consumer products should be up to the individuals.

[Warren DeMontague]

105. Yes. I do. Especially in giant fucking red herrings.

Hey, the Pope pulls gibberish out of his ass to deflect away from the real argument, too. I suppose you love the Pope and want to have his babies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. The ammount

and salt, sugar and fat... there, that is where the cheese cake comes in.

[BlooInBloo]

84. Cool. People who want to spend their own money to eat what they want should rock on.

[Renew Deal]

85. The double down is awesome. This is awesomer

:9

[liberalhistorian]

94. So it "gives them another reason to come into IHOP",

does it? Well, I hope each franchise has an employee whose sole task is to call 911 when people drop from heart attacks. And I'm sure said employees will be kept quite busy.

Ugh. The sudden influx of all that sugar, fat and sodium into the body and bloodstream is gonna be a killer. Literally. Meanwhile, 30,000 children worldwide die of starvation DAILY. And people in Haiti are scrambling for food and supplies to keep their families alive for one more day. And here Americans gorge themselves on this shit to the point of death. Ugh.

[MadBadger]

130. No, it literally wont.

Ugh

[jmm]

95. This is just the pancake version of their stuffed french toast.

My city has a ridiculous amount of good local breakfast places so I rarely go to IHOP. The last time I did I had their cream cheese stuffed french toast. It was good but I've had better.

Making it out to be twice the calories of the double down is a bit unfair. This is 1,250 calories for a full meal with 3 sides. Add a few sides to the double down and I'm sure it will be as bad if not worse. I wouldn't advocate eating food like this all of the time but I'll bet it's not as bad as some of the food pretending to be a healthy option. A couple of years ago while picking up cupcakes for somebody I notice that the sugar free ones had more calories and sodium than the regular ones that were the same size. A friend who is on a diet commented to me recently that she noticed frozen meals labeled as healthy often were worse than ones that were not.

[Rex]

98. You know what? If someone wants to eat this then it is no one elses business.

I won't, but that's just me.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. You are a HERETIC! You are a SINNER! Even worse, you may be a l*********n!

You know, the thing-that-shall-not-be-named.

[NaturalHigh]

100. I would get an order of biscuits and gravy to go with it.

I wonder how many calories that would add.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. Just a reminder: Exercise is an important part of a healthy lifestyle.

This is good exercise:



So is this:



This guy is getting some good exercise, right here:




This, however, is NOT a particularly useful form of exercise:

[PlanetBev]

107. I remember when IHOP opened in 1959

I was nine years old and I had chocolate chip pancakes with chocolate syrup and chocolate milk. E-gads! :crazy:

[Warren DeMontague]

121. Know what's funny? I don't even LIKE pancakes.

I've spent more time arguing about pancakes in this thread than I have spent eating them in the last 40 years.

[Incitatus]

124. Can I order I deep fried and covered with powdered sugar?

[Ohio Metal]

128. Waffle House Rolls It's Eyes

Casa de Waffle still beats IHOP for quality any day. The food may not be healthier, but at least it tastes better. Plus, not everything on the menu comes with a sugar coating.

[Nevernose]

129. I really don't see what the big deal is about either the KFC or IHOP items

The KFC sandwich has 530 calories, less than a whopper with cheese or a McDonald's chicken select with ranch, or a lot of other things on the drive through menu. And as far as the restaurant food is concerned, there's lots of food in lots of restaurants -- and lots of home kitchens -- that serve worse foods, and many of those worse foods are supposed to be healthy.

Nachos from Chilis = 1500 calories
Crispy Caesar Salad from Chili's = 1,000
Southwestern Cobb Salad from Chili's = 600 calories (more than that KFC breadless sandwich!)

2 slices of a supreme pizza = 650 calories
fettucine alfredo, 1 serving = 600 calories
KFC Stacker = 540 calories
Bagel w/ cream cheese = 450 calories
2 glasses of apple juice = 400 calories

They say with great gloom and doom "it's have the calories an adult should eat in a day." What if that adult only eats two meals a day? What's the problem? And blaming restaurants for fat people is just plain DUMB. You think I don't know how to cook?

[lynne]

132. So what? If they don't buy it at IHOP or KFC, they can make it at home -

- and add even MORE calories to it. I guess they'll want to take salt, sugar and cream cheese off the grocery store shelves next.

Sheesh . . .

[cbdo2007]

133. natural selection evening out the population

[DainBramaged]

136. As I said in a similar thread, THANKS I KNOW WHERE I'LL BE SUNDAY MORNING

YUMYUMYUMYUMYUMYMYUMYUM

DU once again trying to tell us what we can or can't eat and trying to be the nanny for us all.....

[distantearlywarning]

142. Ok, so don't eat it.

Or just eat at IHOP or KFC once in a while.

[neverforget]

145. Cheesecake is my favorite desert. I love pancakes. But the 2 together?

It doesn't sound good to me.

[RedCappedBandit]

150. Got a problem with fast food? Don't eat it.

Gee, that was hard!

[Touchdown]

174. Whole Foods has Tofancakes with mocolate chips.

It's as close to the real thing as Soysage links, Tofurkey, Boca Burgers, Soykiaki, and meat-less balls.

:rofl:

[Suji to Seoul]

175. And I eat lean meat, fish, rice, dumplings, noodles and fresh fruit and vegetables

every day here in polluted China. I eat about 1500 - 2000 calories a day if I am lucky.

And in Korea, I ate the same things. No American food at all, even though there are no less than six KFCs within two miles of me (except maybe a small DQ once every couple of months and my Lemon Pepsi, which has been replaced by milk tea).

I came to Asia weighing 317. I'm down to 230 and all because of a diet switch.

Thank you, KFC and IHOP, for validating my dietary switch.

I just ate dumplings and noodles (for about $1.40 American) and I have enough to save for dinner.