Re: the calls for boycotts, etc against Arizona--As a thirty year resident

[panader0]

I can say this is a new low in state politics. This is the state that gave us Ev Mecham, John McCain, Kyl, now Brewer and too many more to name. ( On the plus side we've had Mo and Stuart Udall, Raul Castro and Raul Grijalva). The economic repercussions of the immigration law are already being felt. But like any boycott or economic embargo, it's always the little people that will be hurt. It happened in Cuba, Iraq and many other countries. The rich Repubs behind this BS won't be affected. The poorer folks, the construction workers (already suffering), the waitresses, the small businesses. I have seen many posts here on DU calling for the cutting off of federal funds, and much more. The rich will continue to drive their BMWs, the road workers will lose their jobs.
What's the answer? I don't really know, perhaps the legal challenges will put this new law on hold for a while. But the boycotts and embargoes only really hurt the poor.

[Vincardog]

1. When they have voted out the rePIGs I will be more concerned for them

[Dappleganger]

3. That's a mean comment.

Jesus.

[Vincardog]

5. I believe people need to feel the pain before they throw the PIGS out. IF that is mean I am.

It is the rePIGs causing them this pain not me.

[panader0]

7. I am a lifelong Democrat and vote in every election

I'm just outnumbered here. It was fine to have Napolitano appointed as Sec of Homeland Security, but that move put Jan Brewer in control. Ouch!!

[Dappleganger]

22. Exactly.

Of course when we're outnumbered doesn't mean we're invisible. There are a LOT of hard-working democrats and progressives at work and they desperately need SUPPORT.

[azmouse]

6. Janet Napolitano was a Democratic governor here.

The mayor of Phoenix is a Democrat.

Thank you for your concern for your fellow human beings. I didn't know there had to be a litmus test for compassion.

[movonne]

17. according to the polls 75% likes the new law...

[azmouse]

21. Funny. Every time someone quotes a percentage it goes up.

Whatever the number that approve it's too high.

And what does it say about the entire country when 60% agree with the law? :shrug:

[racaulk]

8. There are Republicans in office in every state...including yours.

[azmouse]

9. Many here don't want to hear that.

They are enjoying their hate too much to listen to reason.

[racaulk]

13. Yep.

It's much easier to express snarky "you live in a red state, you deserve what you get" attitudes than to understand that we are working hard to effect change and get Dems elected in our communities.

My sympathies for the abysmal trainwreck that your Governor has been during her tenure. And I thought my Governor (Sonny Perdue, R-GA) was bad! :hi:

[Vincardog]

16. Saying I will be more concerned when they act like AMERICANs and not like sheep is snarky?

[azmouse]

24. So you hate anyone in AZ?

Mexican-Americans, Native Americans too?

[Vincardog]

27. Who said I hated anybody? Project much?

[azmouse]

35. If it smells like shit and looks like shit, it's shit.

[Vincardog]

38. Congratulations You just made my ignore list I am tired of your $hit

[azmouse]

40. I consider it an honor.

You couldn't handle hearing the truth about yourself so you run and hide. Good! buh-bye!

[racaulk]

31. Yes, it is snarky, IMHO.

Because a lot of people in Arizona are liberals that do not support the recent actions of their state government. Are they unamerican sheep too?

[Vincardog]

10. My state is not passing and signing racist laws

[panader0]

11. Did you do that by yourself?

[Vincardog]

14. Did I ever sugggest I did?

[azmouse]

25. You act like you did.

No Republicans in your state? If so, aren't you special.

[Vincardog]

29. I work to elect the most liberal Democratic candidates I can state and local. Why not go and judge

some one else?

[azmouse]

37. Why don't you take your own advice?

You seem pretty damn willing to judge the entire state of AZ.

[racaulk]

15. So the liberals that live in Arizona are unworthy of your concern...

...because of the actions of the wingnuts in their state government?

[Vincardog]

19. If they do not like dealing with the results of the actions by the wing nuts in their state govt

they can elect a better class of representatives/wing nuts.
Have you ever been to AZ?

[racaulk]

28. I have been to Arizona, actually.

I was there on a business trip in 2004 and go to do some exploring while I was there. The natural beauty there is breathtaking, and the length of I-17 from Phoenix to Flagstaff was quite possibly the most beautiful stretch of road I have ever driven.

But the state's natural beauty is easily clouded by the crazies that are in control of the state government there. Sure, the people can vote against the wingnuts that are there, but liberals in Arizona are severally limited in this manner in two ways: (1) elections are periodic, and (2) their votes are usually outnumbered. It will take work and time to change the local politics there.

In the meantime, I don't think it's fair to label all of Arizona's citizens as sheep or unamerican. Many people in Arizona worked to make sure the assholes that passed this law would not be elected in the first place. Those people deserve our sympathies, support, and help, not callous disconcern and knee-jerk dismissal.

I'm sure that's where you and I disagree.

[Vincardog]

32. You and I disagree if you don't think I support hard working Democrats. The fact that the GOP is

causing the majority some more pain is THEIR FAULT not mine.

[racaulk]

36. It's the fault of those Arizonans that worked to prevent them from being elected?

I don't think that you don't support other Democrats, but your words suggest that they are less worthy of your concern in those municipalities where they are outnumbered by GOP voters.

I also never said that any of this was your fault. But compassion and support go a lot further than dismissal and lack of concern.

I recommend that you read this OP. She has the right attitude, IMHO:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8232146

[movonne]

12. ditto

[icnorth]

2. There is no question that boycotts will

disproportionately hurt the poor. My only wish is that the workers who lose their jobs; and the poor who will be hurt realize the power they possess and strike back with a vengeance at the ballot box

[Confusious]

48. Hard to be concerned about others

When you lose your house and you're trying to feed your family, which a lot of people in Arizona are right now.

[Tippy]

4. Every state has people who have no clue

They are out there to make a name for themselves...Hell your Gov will probably run for President someday..The entire country is going to the dogs..

[aikoaiko]

18. I won't punish the people of AZ for this law. There is still opporuntity for change.

[azmouse]

39. Thank you!

From what I'm seeing this law is really mobilizing Democrats to fight. It could be a blessing in disguise.

[BlooInBloo]

20. Asking people to monetarily support a Jim Crow state is bizarre....

But it does at least clarify why AZ has not improved one iota in the last 20 years or more.

[panader0]

26. I did not ask anyone to monetarily support AZ

I only point out that the boycotts, etc, won't touch the people who are for this law. The boycotts will only hurt those against the law.

[Raineyb]

33. Boycotts were the only thing that worked for the MLK holiday. It would appear that

that is the only way your state learns. Unfortunate but true.

You're asking people to put up with this rancid law and its racists implications. You're asking way too much of people.

[Texasgal]

34. The OP is explaining what a boycott can do

not asking for you to put up with the law. Jeezuz.

We all need to support candidates in AZ that do not support this law. Nobody is asking you to not boycott the state!

[Raineyb]

41. Well OBVIOUSLY people know what a boycott will do. That's why people are calling for one

People in this country don't seem to respect anything but the all (not so) mighty dollar. People know what the effects of a boycott are. What exactly would you have them do? Give up the boycott and do nothing?

Bloody hell all this bitching and moaning about what a boycott will do is designed to try to dissuade people from doing so. Unless you're running on the assumption that people are bloody idiots and don't know what a boycott does.

[Texasgal]

42. You know... I think your wrong

Not everyone knows that a Boycott hurts the poor more than the rich, that the wealthy set will continue living just fine while poor folks get screwed.

NO... I don't think everyone KNOWS that. And nowhere did anyone ask you to put up with this shitty, racist law.

[Raineyb]

46. Right. You just think that by making people feel guilty about the poorest of Arizonians

that will what?

Stop pretending that this guilt attempt isn't an attempt to dissuade people from joining a boycott. And what exactly is your strategy for making one's displeasure known if pulling funds is too onerous for you?

I think I'll stick with what worked in the past. That would be the boycott.

[Texasgal]

47. CHRIST!

It's not even my OP! Holy HELL!

I have no fucking strategy. I was just pointing out what this OP was saying and what you obviously didn't understand. I am not trying to make YOU feel guilt for anything. Boycott, I don't give a rat's ass.

[Raineyb]

50. Apparently based on the OP's response I understand all too well what he was saying.

I don't need any explanation from you thank you.

[panader0]

43. And you are from NYC? Isn't that where Wall Street is?

Should the world boycott NYC too?

[Raineyb]

49. I really couldn't give a shit.

But let's not pretend boycotts don't work shall we? It was the boycott that got your state to recognize the King holiday. In light of that I can only say that I find the constant comments about the effects of a boycott unconvincing to say the least. As I said earlier people understand the effects of a boycott that's why they're calling for one.

[Texasgal]

23. I hear you.. and you have my sympathy

Living in Texas and being from here I can understand. :hug:

The anger is valid, but in the grand scheme of things I understand what you are saying.

As dems we need to help your state with money for candidates that do not support this law, I can do that.

Keep you chin up. We as neighbors need you!

[lunatica]

30. Well there's really nothing else that can be done

If no one makes a move to show how unacceptable this law is for fear of hurting those who don't deserve it then things get worse and those innocent people will get hurt in worse ways. Once the state gets away with demanding papers from one class of people they will continue on to other demographics and ethnicities. Does anyone believe gays wouldn't be singled out sometime? I don't.

But with this kind of reaction those who would vote the offending officials out have two things in their favor. They feel supported by citizens all over the country and they galvanize into action.

The rich may still drive their BMWs but they lose elections and business too. It just takes longer to get to them.

South Africa would still have Apartheid if the world hadn't boycotted them.

[madmom]

44. This is kind of like the call to let the big 3 auto manufacturers fall. We heard

let them fall, to bad for the workers they will have to suck it up and relearn skills etc. etc. Luckily they were given a loan, was the turn around because of the fear of the possibility of being hung out to dry? We'll never know, but I do know how it felt to have fellow Americans not caring about what happens to us, especially when we had nothing to say about what the 14th floor at GM does. Voters have a choice about who leads them, employees don't. Either way, we have to stand up to bullies ( repugs leaders and company ceo's). What the right move is on this one? I don't know.:cry:

[depakid]

45. Anyone who supported boycotts of South Carolina (or South Africa) can't really oppose a boycott here

Same arguments apply.

[Raineyb]

51. Unless it's their own backyard apparently. n/t

[sabrina 1]

52. People understand the points you make in your post.

But the truth is that boycotts are the only effective tool people have anymore, and they are the only thing, short of violence, that have ever worked to stop the bad guys from taking over. Or to topple them when they do.

The best thing Arizonans can do who are opposed to this law but worried about the boycotts, is to call their Republican Reps and tell THEM how angry they are about the law which is now going to cause the state to lose money.

Iow, Blame THEM, not those who are trying to stop them. The more angry constituent calls they get about the boycotts, the sooner it will dawn on them that their little game might not have been such a great idea after all.

Already the anger from the rest of the country is beginning to have an effect. This is NOT the time to back down. But YOU and others in Az can use the reaction from around the country to frighten the bigots who thought this whole scheme up by expressing your anger at what they have done.

[EFerrari]

53. Given the response from businesses trying to fend off the boycott

I think your estimate might be a little off, panader0.

And you might want to consider that it isn't the rich in Arizona who have called for the boycott.