Just received a stupid RW email about John Glenn

[NoAmericanTaliban]

I checked the email on truth or fiction - http://www.truthorfiction.com/ & apparently the exchange between the Senators did take place. I keep getting these stupid emails from some of my RW relatives. I used to respond to them but now I just ignore em for the most part. Wonder where all these crap emails are coming from and where are the left wing emails? Guess we need to come up with some.
------------------------------
edited to add my reply:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Apparently it has been floating around for years. A lot of the exchange is real but didn't take place at the time it says it did. The stuff in the beginning of the email was added in 2005 and was not what Glenn said. By the way Glenn was a Democratic Senator from Ohio 1976 till 1999 until he decided not to run again. A real hero in my book. For factual info about Glenn go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Glenn

---------------------------------------------------

Subject: John Glenn Said:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> JOHN GLENN SAID
> >>>
> >>> Things that make you think a little:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
> >>> In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
> >>> month of January. That's just one American city,
> >>> about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
> >>> have started this war, state the following:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> a. FDR led us into World War II.
> >>>
> >>> b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
> >>> >From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
> >>> an average of 112,500 per year.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
> >>> North Korea never attacked us .
> >>> >From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ..
> >>> an average of 18,334 per year.
> >>>
> >>> d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
> >>> Vietnam never attacked us.
> >>>
> >>> e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
> >>> >From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost
> >>> an average of 5,800 per year.
> >>>
> >>> f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
> >>> Bosnia never attacke d us.
> >>> He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
> >>> times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
> >>> multiple occasions.
> >>>
> >>> g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush
> >>> has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled
> >>> al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North
Korea
> >>> without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who
> >>> slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The Democrats are complaining
> >>> about how long the war is taking.
> >>> But
> >>> It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno
> >>> to take the Branch Davidian compound.
> >>> That was a 51-day operation..
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons
> >>> in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find
> >>> the Rose Law Firm billing records.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the
> >>> Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
> >>> than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his
> >>> Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It took less time to take Iraq than it took
> >>> to count the votes in Florida!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
> >>> The Military morale is high!
> >>>
> >>> The biased media hopes we are too ignorant
> >>> to realize the facts
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But Wait .
> >>> There's more!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)
> >>> Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Some people still don't understand why military personnel
> >>> do what they do for a living. This exchange between
> >>> Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum
> >>> is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
> >>> impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one
> >>> man's explanation of why men and women in the armed
> >>> services do what they do for a living.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This IS a typical, though sad, example of what
> >>> some who have never served think of the military.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
> >>> "How can you run for Senate
> >>> when you've never held a real job?"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Senator Glenn (D-Ohio):
> >>> "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
> >>> I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions.
> >>> My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different
> >>> occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my
> >>> checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
> >>> not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the
> >>> daily cash receipts to the bank."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day...
> >>> to a veteran's hospital and look those men ...
> >>> with their mangled bodies . in the eye, and tell THEM
> >>> they didn't hold a job!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You go with me to the Space Program at NASA
> >>> and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans
> >>> of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...
> >>> and you look those kids in the eye and tell them
> >>> that their DADS didn't hold a job.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in
> >>> Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends
> >>> buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch
> >>> those waving flags.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You stand there, and you think about this nation,
> >>> and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job?
> >>>
> >>> What about you?"
> >>>
> >>> For those who don't remember .
> >>> During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney
> >>> representing the Communist Party in the USA.
> >>>
> >>> Now he's a Senator!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you can read this, thank a teacher.
> >>> If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It might not be a bad idea to keep this circulating
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> john
> >>>

[NYCGirl]

1. Here's more from Snopes (scroll down to the 2005 Addendum):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

[rockymountaindem]

2. I had to debunk that first e-mail for some fools back in 2003

I can't believe it's still going around. Here's a factoid: *Germany* declared war on *us* first... you idiot revisionists.

[cynatnite]

4. I got this two years ago...

off to the garbage it went.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

3. Do your relatives know John Glenn's a Democrat?

[sandnsea]

5. You let your relatives disrespect you this way?

Nobody sends me this crap after I tell them to stop. I can't figure out why people don't just tell their families to knock it off.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

17. My first stategy was to responde to the crap with facts and left wing

spin to it. My second step was to initiate emails - often using facts and info I got at DU. Most RW relatives got the message and stopped sending me these stupid emails, but every once in a while one slips through. Most of them are ant-Clinton in nature. When I was visiting them over the holidays some were complaining about my responses and emails. I told them to stop sending my crap & I wouldn't respond. The interesting thing is how thin skinned they are - they sure can dish it, but not take it.

[Sweet Freedom]

6. There's no left-wing versions

because we don't automatically click "send" whenever we get this crap. We actually check our facts first and we don't cram our uninvited beliefs down other people's throats.

[ocd liberal]

9. Exactly!

Thank you!

[ocd liberal]

7. There are no left wing emails of this nature

I have been an email supervisor since March 2003. The left, if they send anything at all, sends links to pages with FACTS on them. The right sends cut and pasted misspelled FWD FWD FWD FWds that usually begin with a big banner yelling at you. I've shut down several right wing hate email-ers in my office, but never came across a left wing email-er.
They are just out there trying to keep themselves brainwashed, I guess.

[Bridget Burke]

8. Do not ignore these e-mails.

Reply with a link to SNOPES.COM, or whatever source debunks the idiocy.

And be sure to Copy everyone else who received the message.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

12. Ok - I had to reply to this. Here was my response

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Apparently it has been floating around for years. A lot of the exchange is real but didn't take place at the time it says it did. The stuff in the beginning of the email was added in 2005 and was not what Glenn said. By the way Glenn was a Democrat Senator from Ohio 1976 till 1999 until he decided not to run again. A real hero in my book. For factual info about Glenn go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Glenn

-----------------

I also replied to all so the folks in the middle will get it too.

[Clark2008]

18. Um... he was a DemocratIC senator from Ohio.

:hi:

[billybob537]

10. I'm calling BULLSHIT

on the Osama's head on a platter line, Clinton went to the REpuke congress three times and they refused to authorize missle attacks for Osama's camp. Thanks pukes . some of us still remember that.

[Sweet Freedom]

21. Here's some links if anyone's interested

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=284x243

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=284x251

[unpossibles]

11. for one thing, the number of deaths in Iraq v. Detroit is silly

considering we don't even know how many Iraqis died in any given month. To use the number of Americans dead is misleading and possibly racist.

Also, all of the deaths from this war were preventable.

[ThoughtCriminal]

13. Right Wingers are bad at math

Regarding Detroit -

1. They are only counting U.S. combat deaths (?) - not the total number of violent deaths in Iraq (Probably many thousand that month)
2. If you are only counting deaths among U.S. personel, compare the poulation of Detroit (about 4.5 million) vs the number of U.S. personel in Iraq (around 140,000). Result: Iraq was about 36 times more dangersous.

[TheWraith]

14. Actually, there were over two thousand killings in Baghdad alone.

That 35 number only reflects American troops. Apparently Iraqi civilians don't count as people in their eyes. As for the rest:

Germany did attack us--they issued a declaration of war against the United States four days after their Japanese allies attacked Pearl Harbor.

North Korea did attack us--they launched an invasion across the internationally recognized demarcation line against a mixed peacekeeping force of US and South Korean troops.

American involvement in Vietnam was conceived as an exercise in training and assisting the native forces of a young democracy crush a insurgent movement aided by an outside hostile regime. Recognizing the path the war was taking, Kennedy ordered a complete American withdrawl to be completed by late 1964. Apparently presidents from Texas just have less military sense than that northeastern liberal.

US peacekeepers in Bosnia did not lose a single American life, but did manage to stop ethnic cleansing that was killing thousands of innocent men, women, and children.

The line about Clinton being offered Bin Laden by the Sudanese is an outright lie. It never happened.

Under Bush's watch, one country has been turned into the terrorism capital of the world, and a training ground for new people who hate us; weapons inspectors have been removed from both Iran and North Korea; North Korea, with whom we're technically still at war, has tested a nuclear bomb; and we've been in Iraq longer than it took to win World War II.

[Karmageddon]

15. Oh where to begin? But I'll try.

- "There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January and In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders"
Blatantly false comparison.
39 combat related killings of American soldiers. There were 100's or maybe 1,000's of civilians kidnapped, killed, tortured, beheaded, etc. In a single incident, nearly 100 students were killed by a car bomb at a university. Do you think that if 100 students were blown up at the U. of Michigan, it might make a headline?


- "Germany never attacked us; Japan did"
Germany may not have attacked us, but they declared war on us first. They were also storming all over Europe attacking our allies. Something Saddam never tried (except for Kuwait, after papa Bush told him to go for it).

- "North Korea never attacked us..."
And we all know how well that worked out... and is STILL working out. Should be a lesson learned, don't you think?

- John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962
and
- Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
Both true. JFK sent a handful of troops into nam to help train the Vietnamese. Johnson misled America by using faulty intelligence (or manipulating the intelligence) about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to drag us deeper into the war. Sound familiar? Maybe we could have learned something from that too.

- "Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacke d us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions."
This one is actually almost funny in how ridiculously it twists the facts. Yes, we didn't have UN or French consent - nor did we have UN or French condemnation. They just didn't help - at first. Bosnia didn't attack us, but there was "ongoing" genocide that Clinton had the power to stop. And he succeeded, before the UN Bluehelmets took over. Oh yeah... how many soldiers died in that affair again? I can count them on no hands. As for Osama... we had him in our sights (much different than being offered his head on a platter) three times. Problem is (and I'm getting this from memory from Richard Clark's book, but it's much more accurate than the original email), we "thought" we probably knew his location, with varying degrees of certainty, but before we could get him, we had to set the coordinates on the cruise missiles and then launch them and hope they got there while he was still there, AND in at least one of the instances, there were other foreign delegates with him. Wouldn't have been too cool to blow away a few Saudi princes in the process, would it? By the way, where the fuck is Osama nowadays?

-"In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people."
LMFAO!!!!

- "It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.."
Nice math there bucco. 51 days vs how long have we been in Iraq?

- "We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records."
No longer true. And... she found them.

- "It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!"
And both efforts failed miserably


- "Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant
to realize the facts"
Riiiiiiight.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Have An Addendum To Your Last Reply

"The biased media hopes we are too ignorant
to realize the facts"

You said "Riiiiiiight"

I say "Apparently, they're correct. I just read this email, and you are too ignorant."
Same sentiment. I'm just piling on more than you did.
The Professor

[Mz Pip]

16. Here's an excellent response.

This email has been around for a while but it keeps poping up. Here is a link to the best response I've read on it.


http://www.local8-0237.com/interesting_facts_rebuttal.htm

Mz Pip
:dem:

[NoAmericanTaliban]

19. Thanks. Guess you have gotten these stupid emails before :)

[Mz Pip]

20. Oh yes,

I bookmark DU threads on all RW chain emails to keep for future reference. We have some terrific writers here that tear this kind of BS to shreds.

There is the Propaganda Debunking Group which has some good stuff, too.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Sweet Freedom]

22. Ooo!!!! Someone who knows about the Debunker!!!!

Holy crap! It's a first. Thanks for plugging it.

Here's the link for any who are interested:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=284

[NewJeffCT]

24. The rebuttal should be updated

First, FDR got authorization to declare war on Japan only. After that passed, Germany declared war on the US, and only then did the US declare war on Germany.

Also, when it was written, we had lost "only" 1,000 soldiers. That number is, sadly, over 3,000 now.

We also lost quite a bit more than 39 troops in Iraq in January... so, that rate is even higher now.

[Sweet Freedom]

23. FYI: Just added to the Debunker

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=284x309

[NoAmericanTaliban]

26. Thanks - didn't know this was in DU

Now I know where to look for real facts. Haven't received a reply yet to my response. If I do I'll respond with your info. Maybe skinner can add this group to the front page one day to help spread the word.