@#$!!* Florida...

[Coexist]

From the Sun-Sentinel

<snip>
Garth F. Bailey, of Pembroke Pines, pleaded no contest to manslaughter in 1988 for shooting his girlfriend in the head while she cooked breakfast.

Tragic? Yes.

<snip>
Eight years later, the state of Florida gave him a license to carry a gun.

I am not making this up.

@#$!!* Florida... no where else. Only Florida.

Of course the NRA says the problem is with, "gaps within law enforcement and with "bleeding-heart, criminal-coddling judges and prosecutors."

Right.

Any sanity on this issue in the Sunshine State? Anyone?

<snip>
Last summer, the Legislature made it even harder for the public to find out. It made the names of licensed gun carriers a secret.

@#$!!* Florida

[mnhtnbb]

1. Or maybe Texas.

[Coexist]

3. NO, in the article it states that they wouldn't receive concealed carry b/c of their record

only in the Gunshine State.

[zanne]

2. I hope you're wearing Kevlar....

I'm for gun control and whenever I post anything about guns, I get flamed. I don't know what it is that happens to people when the subject of guns comes up, but it's mystifying. Obviously, Florida is a joke as far as gun safety enforcement is concerned. I don't have alot of faith that people will wake up to the dangers anytime soon.

[Coexist]

4. I have lots of friends who own guns - I don't care about that

but I am not terribly excited about living in a state that chooses to experiment with a weapons free-for-all.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

5. Texas is much much worse when it comes to guns.

n/t

[zanne]

6. How is that possible?

In Texas, do they have the "shoot first and ask questions later" law like Florida does? (Y'know, the one where if you think you're being threatened, you can shoot a hole in somebody).

[benEzra]

10. No, that's still 2nd-degree murder in Florida...

I'd recommend Gutmacher, Florida Firearms: Law, Use, and Ownership, which is the definitive legal text on Florida firearms law. The latest edition covers the most recent changes.

In a nutshell, the new law merely eliminated the quirky "duty to retreat" that used to be present in Florida law; now, Florida self-defense law is more like California's. You still have to be in reasonable danger of death, serious bodily harm, or a forcible felony to use a weapon in self-defense, just like in any other state. You can also use lethal force to stop an actual home invasion or a carjacking in progress. No, you can't shoot the Avon lady, or somebody you merely "feel threatened" by, and if you do you'll go to prison for a long, long time.

[Coexist]

7. Texas may have more guns per capita, but Florida gives them to criminals..

From the article...

"Numerous other states, including South Dakota, Texas and Maryland, likely would not permit Rodriguez to carry a gun given his rap sheet.

But a loophole in Florida law allows people charged with felonies to obtain licenses to carry guns three years after they complete their sentences so long as a judge "withholds adjudication."

The Sun-Sentinel found six registered sex offenders with valid concealed weapon licenses at the time of its review. Five of the six had convictions "withheld" by the courts, making them qualified for gun licenses."

[Edweird]

8. I live down south near miami,

where criminals carry illegal unregistered stolen guns illegally concealed and commit acts of violence on our fellow citizens. On a daily basis. I agree with the premise of the article that there are people with concealed permits that shouldn't have them, but I do support the "shall issue" permit laws. The criminals mentioned in the article shouldn't have had permits.... but they could still purchase illegal firearms very easily and use them. Concealed permits are for the good guys. If you commit a crime as a permit holder , you are still a criminal. Murder is still murder. Assault is still assault. A permit is not a badge or a get out of jail free card. I like that our state gives the citizen the benefit of the doubt. I hope I have not come across as disrespectful, because that is certainly not my intent.

[TZ]

11. I hear this argument about DC too...

when the big Repubes like Kay Bailey Hutchinson from Texas whine about not being able to carry a concealed weapon. Do you really think that carrying a concealed weapon is a deterrent or helps crime ? (which they seem to think would happen in DC if they change the law) I am sure there are cases where it helps but it seems like its far outnumbered by cases where ligitimate gun owners get into a situation where they lose control and shoot with only the vaguest threat. I have always heard the best offense is defense and that you are better off not carrying anything that could be used agaisnt you. Right now there is some case in the area where an off duty police man shot two delivery guys in his house after a fight about a headboard. The delivery guys are in a coma so we don't know both sides although the police officer is claiming self defense but listening to the DA who seems reluctant to file charges and is VERY interested in talking to the victims I would guess this was not a justifiable shooting.

[Edweird]

13. Just because a person meets the legal requirements and

is physically capable of carrying a firearm doesn't mean they should. Anybody who meets basic requirements can buy a gun. Does that mean they should? If they lack self control or maturity or certain cognitive and reasoning abilities, they shouldn't own a gun. And they especially shouldn't carry one. Carrying a loaded weapon is a HUGE responsibility. Many people are not up to the task.A concealed weapons permit is NOT: A license to kill, A get out of jail free card or A police badge. A trigger happy civilian with a gun is a danger to those around them. And probably a criminal. A firearm is only to be used as a LAST RESORT. Not as a threat. You only draw your weapon to use it. If somebody shoots at "the vaguest threat", they are criminals. They will/should go to jail. Even telling someone "I've got a gun" is aggravated assault, and should result in the revocation of their license. If there are criminals slipping through the cracks and obtaining permits, I want the cracks blocked. I am not a criminal. I have a lifetime of firearms experience. My weapons are not party favors to show off to my friends. They are tools. Tools to be used to defend myself and (more importantly) my family. That is something that I take very seriously. I grew up in the south. Everybody had guns. At about age 10 is when most kids I knew got their first gun. My paternal grandparents had enough guns to arm a small country. There were no shootouts, no bloodbaths, no disasters. I've never shot anyone accidentally. It comes down to respect, education and training.

I realize others have different and sometimes conflicting experiences or opinions. I'm not out to flame anyone or stir anything up. But I would like to show that there are SOME responsible gun owners with concealed permits.

[benEzra]

9. Some of these may have been a paperwork screwup...

A manslaughter conviction would make it a felony to so much as touch a gun, or a single round of ammunition, so they can a person like that away. On the cases involving withheld adjudication, my question would be, why the hell was he not convicted? Was there doubt as to whether he actually committed a crime?

When you apply for a Florida firearm license, they run your fingerprints through FDLE and the FBI, FDLE conducts a criminal background check, and even minor convictions disqualify you from receiving a permit. Looks like either somebody somewhere either bungled the background check, this guy had his record expunged, or he was never convicted of any crime.

FWIW, my wife and I both obtained carry licenses when we lived in Florida, and I now hold a NC carry license. I think it's a good law, but they need to make sure the background check is conducted properly, and that everybody who needs to be in the criminal database is actually in the database.

[RebelOne]

12. I had an ex-boyfriend in Miami who had been convicted of murder

in New York years and years ago. He ran off to Florida. But he was able to get a concealed gun license in Miami. Go figure.

[Edweird]

14. Murder?

Holy crap. He should be automatically disqualified.

[benEzra]

15. He IS automatically disqualified...

unless he was either pardoned, or had his record expunged or his conviction overturned by the state of New York (did that happen?). Not only would he flunk the requirements for a Florida CCW license, but it'd be a Federal felony for him to so much as touch a gun.

It's also possible that he possessed/carried the gun illegally and said he had a permit for it without actually having one. (FWIW, carrying without a permit is a felony in FL, and anyone carrying without a license is subject to on-the-spot arrest.)

Now, back before Florida reformed it's CCW licensure laws in the mid 1980's, they had a California-style system of permit issuance, in which local authorities had carte blanche to grant or deny permits to anybody they wanted. So it's possible someone who was buddies with someone on the county commission or city council, or who made a sufficiently large campaign contribution, could have gotten a permit even with a shady record, while somebody with a clean record but no political connections would have been denied. That all changed when CCW reform passed and mandated that the state, not local authorities, make that determination.

[Edweird]

16. I believe her point is that he slipped through the cracks

B.T.W. I live in south florida. Wife and I are ccw holders and (I like to believe anyway) responsible gun owners. I have a post above that starts "just becasue" and you will see you and I are on the same wavelength.

:hi: